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PiedmontINT
Topic Author
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PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 7:57 am

I just had my first experience with the fine facility known as the Philadelphia International Airport. I honestly felt pretty ashamed walking around the terminals and taking the bus between the F and C terminals. What in the world is US doing in such a dump? Why not dismantle the hub and build up one of the focus cities such as BOS ? I realize that most of the reasons PIT was taken down was lack of O&D, if i remember correctly. I honestly can't believe US would sacrifice a brand new terminal built just for them in PIT for the hellhole in PHL.

When i took the bus between F and C, we rode around on the tarmac (one positive, at least i got up close and personal with alot of planes) and I actually saw 3 baggage carts pulled around completely full with bags stacked ON TOP OF THE CART!!!  banghead  No wonder luggage is lost so often in PHL, its probably sitting on some taxiway somewhere!!!

The facilities are just shabby all around, tight walkways, packed gates, ripped up and torn seats, dark, and just in a poor state of repair. Between disgruntled and just dumb employees and practices (see ramper with bags on roof) to shady facilities, to lack of runways and taxiways, I hope something can be done in the merger to clean house at PHL and shake things up to improve that abyss...
 
PITA333
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I realize that most of the reasons PIT was taken down was lack of O&D, if i remember correctly.

Yes and no. O&D did play a large roll in taking down PIT. However, the larger factor was that US Airways said that the ACAT (the Allegheny County Airport Athority) was making operations expensive out of PIT and that they could get a Better deal by shifting Ops to PHL and CLT. Some aspects of this are ture and some are pure BS!

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
honestly can't believe US would sacrifice a brand new terminal built just for them in PIT for the hellhole in PHL.

Haha, that is the question the people like myself, Steeler83, and USPIT10L have been asking for years.

Regards,
PITA333
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Haha, that is the question the people like myself, Steeler83, and USPIT10L have been asking for years.

Because that is where the money is at.

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
airwave
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
Why not dismantle the hub and build up one of the focus cities such as BOS ?

Too far north. It's the top of the Bosnywash megalopolis--the only traffic coming from above it would be European and some Canadian.

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I realize that most of the reasons PIT was taken down was lack of O&D, if i remember correctly.

And because it was too far west of Bosnywash, US's route stronghold.

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I honestly can't believe US would sacrifice a brand new terminal built just for them in PIT for the hellhole in PHL.

See above. All other things (like terminal design/upkeep) equal, it's cheaper to operate the Eastern seaboard flights from PHL because the planes just go north and south--not west and east. (I know that's oversimplfying it, so if you're competent enough to understand the point, you won't have to flame me.)

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
When i took the bus between F and C, we rode around on the tarmac (one positive, at least i got up close and personal with alot of planes) and I actually saw 3 baggage carts pulled around completely full with bags stacked ON TOP OF THE CART!!! banghead No wonder luggage is lost so often in PHL, its probably sitting on some taxiway somewhere!!!

Well, what time did you fly through? Methinks that if you came into F and then went to C, you came in during one of US's flight blocks, so there was likely a shortage of ground equipment. That being said, that's the fault of US corporate, not the individual employee trying to hustle bags from all over the place to one particular airplane. Besides, there are so many FOD checks, you're not gonna lose a bag sitting on the tarmac. Now, the underbelly of PHL--that's frightening as all hell, lol.

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
The facilities are just shabby all around, tight walkways, packed gates, ripped up and torn seats, dark, and just in a poor state of repair. Between disgruntled and just dumb employees and practices (see ramper with bags on roof) to shady facilities, to lack of runways and taxiways, I hope something can be done in the merger to clean house at PHL and shake things up to improve that abyss...

I feel for you on this one. I love A West and I wish I had reason to use it, but I don't, ha. But don't blame US on this one as much as you should blame the oh-so corrupt Philly city hall. They're the ones who like to be spectacularly assholerific.

In any event, I truely hope that, once HP and US finally consumate their marriage and become one, there will be a serious effort to take care of their terminals. They've already taken care of the planes, so I'm sure "PHL A East, C" is on Doug Parker's To Do list.


Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
CentPIT
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
The facilities are just shabby all around, tight walkways, packed gates, ripped up and torn seats, dark, and just in a poor state of repair. Between disgruntled and just dumb employees and practices (see ramper with bags on roof) to shady facilities, to lack of runways and taxiways, I hope something can be done in the merger to clean house at PHL and shake things up to improve that abyss...

My first experience through PHL was on June 30, 2006, and it was not a very good one! The terminals are very shady and very trashy...

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Haha, that is the question the people like myself, Steeler83, and USPIT10L have been asking for years.

I think I deserve to be included thank you, ahahaha...

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 2):
Because that is where the money is at.

This statement is very true, however they aren't making more money by sending connecting PAX through PHL instead of PIT. A few routes (15 to 20) can be shifted to Pittsburgh to help with congestion, Pittsburgh is a wonderful, clean, and friendly facility!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
UAL Bagsmasher
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:01 am

US's Express ramp operation in PHL is asinine. The majority (not all) of the Piedmont rampers couldn't care less if the flights leave on time or not, not to mention baggage. We average one aircraft damage by Piedmont rampers every other week or so. Every few weeks or so we have to ferry an aircraft to our heavy check facility to undergo ramp rash repairs. I have never seen such a disorganized ramp before. Just yesterday, I personally witnessed one of our flights waiting more than 12 minutes for a marshaller. Finally a ramp supervisor showed up and ended up parking the plane and unloading it... single-handedly. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. I see rampers parking beltloaders with their rubber bumpers pancaked flat up against the aircraft on a daily basis. A beltloader should NEVER touch an aircraft. I have persoanlly been cleared to taxi into the gate when a bag cart was clearly in the envelope. Yesterday a ramper threw a temper tantrum when a pilot refused to taxi in due to a large piece of F.O.D. near the lead-in line. The list goes on and on. The work ethic of the Piedmont rampers is nowhere to be found, and their training is piss poor.

I guess the moral of the story is that when you pay someone $8.00/hr in an expensive city like PHL, you get exactly what you pay for. There are a few very hard working Piedmont rampers in PHL who bust ass day in and day out and try to make a difference. Unfortunately their collegues drag down the operation into the sub-basement.
 
gilesdavies
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:02 am

I have flown into PHL on four occasions, all on transatlantic flights from LGW and I havn't really had a major issue with the airport atall.

The first time I flew in was back in 2003 and the experience was not all that great as took 1.5hrs to clear immigrations and we begain to sweat thinking we would miss our connection on to SFO. But made it with the skin of our teeth.

Since then the new international terminal A west has been built and passport control is a breeze and rarely more than 2-3 people in front of you at each booth and the number of immigration booths seems endless. (I think it is 50+).

My only major issue is once you have collected your baggage and put back on to the belt for your connecting flight you have to clear security again (as with all international flights arriving into the USA). All international passengers are directed to use the first set of security barriers, which is just as you exit Terminal A from your international flight and the queues can be horrendous - especially if several European flights have arrived at the same time. It also tries the TSA's patience as the queues build and block the walkway! This can however be made easier if passengers walk to the relevent terminal kirbside and clear security at that terminal as opposed to walking to the relevent terminal airside and joining the first available security queue.

US are hardly going to walk away from an airport, which is home to the fifth largest city in the country and has a major stranglehold of over 90% of the traffic operating through the airport... Especially if the routes they operate are profitable.

I appracite PHL may not be the greatest facility in the world, but US does not seem to have any issues generating traffic through the airport and continues to grow their European destinations year on year. I will however admit I am a great fan of CLT and if atall possible I will try to connect through CLT, if connections permit to/from LGW.

Just think it could be worst... PHL seems a paradise compared to MIA and LAX!
 
vega
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I just had my first experience with the fine facility known as the Philadelphia International Airport. I honestly felt pretty ashamed walking around the terminals and taking the bus between the F and C terminals. What in the world is US doing in such a dump? Why not dismantle the hub and build up one of the focus cities such as BOS ?

Have you ever been to BOS? A successful airline puts their Hubs where the money is and where they will generate the most revenue. Philadelphia is the 4th largest MSA in the U.S.. Subscribing to a principal that an airline should base it's decision to position it's Hub in a city which has the nicest looking airport, but an insufficient level of O&D, is one of the reasons USAir is no longer in business. US is in the process of spending $20M to refurbish the B and C terminals at PHL. Making a general statement that an entire airport is a "Dump" based on experience with less than 20% of the facility is not very credible in my opinion. If an airline were to follow your advice, almost every major U.S. carrier should abandon their existing mega-hub and move to a "nicer" location. My opinion is that PIT is now right sized in relation to other cities with similar O&D levels. Even though it might appear that funneling some flights through PIT (for connection purposes) would provide some level of relief for PHL, I'd bet you'd still find most people would avoid it (PIT) because of the lack of global connections it provides. If you attempted to upsize PIT to avoid that, then US could wind up back in pre-BK days. A point people seem to forget/ignore is that PIT was a loosing (money) proposition for the the last 5 years - which includes it's heydays. This is the first year that airport generated a (small) profit for US. In hindsight, Philadelphia was a little wiser than Pittsburgh. It didn't build a $1B airport to entice US Air and in fact US contributed most of the $ for the construction of the International Terminal (A-West) at PHL several years ago. PIT supporters really need to get over trying to justify the existance of their airport by bashing PHL and blaming US for downsizing it - and making it profitable.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
UALramperORD
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:20 am

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 5):
There are a few very hard working Piedmont rampers in PHL who bust ass day in and day out and try to make a difference. Unfortunately their collegues drag down the operation into the sub-basement.

Hmm... sounds like an airline I know  *cough ORD, IAD *

[Edited 2006-07-25 03:24:06]

[Edited 2006-07-25 03:24:26]
"Roger, cleared to push spot 3"
 
klyk1980
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:03 am

In my opinion, PHL is not that bad as compare to many other US Airports.

I am not sure why some of you like BOS..personally I hate it very much. Two years ago I got a chance to transit there. Flew in with Icelandair from KEF and connect with Air Canada to Toronto. Icelandair and most foreign airlines are settled in the new Terminal E, the rest in A and B. It seems Terminal E is not part of the airport....plus..no luggage storage....and Boston Airport subway station is surely one of the worst in the world.

Another hellhole is MIA.....really a mess there....even worse then CDG T2-A. If possible, I rather use FLL or PBI rather than MIA. Same thing apply to LGA which is a nightmare to traveller. But LGA itself still functional.

LAX and SFO ...well....maybe I was not in T.B., so my experience was a definite fine there. BWI should be ok if they finish all the interior constrcutions.

ORD is another story if you have connection between International Terminal to any of the domestic terminal. Please kindly reserve 2 hours at least for such a transit. I dont know why build T5 in such far apart.

MKE and BUF...both small and compact....no problem to access this airport.

DTW McNarama and TPA are by far the best....this break the rule in US because usually smaller is better....except DTW / TPA. The terminal is huge but very efficient. Maybe another good one is DEN, but I never be there.

Thats all my experiences with US Airport....so...give Philly some support....they are no good...but for sure not the worst.
 
ANCFlyer
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:15 am

PHL has always been a craphole.

I avoided it as much as possible. . . . unfortunately, back in my US Airways day, many flights to the Caribbean departed from PHL. It's the only US airport that sent my luggage - routinely - to oblivion. It's crowded, the people are rude and obnoxious (even moreso than I  Wow! ), prone to WX delays that most other airports wuold dismiss, all around, a bad rep for US.

That said, the O&D is there. It's not in PIT where I'd like to see US expand again.
FOR THOSE THAT FOUGHT FOR IT, FREEDOM HAS A FLAVOR THE PROTECTED WILL NEVER KNOW OR UNDERSTAND
 
ORD2PHL
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:22 am

It's our craphole and we love it.

And why did US stay here instead of PIT?

because this is where the $$ is.

ORD2PHL
 
steeler83
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Yes and no. O&D did play a large roll in taking down PIT. However, the larger factor was that US Airways said that the ACAT (the Allegheny County Airport Athority) was making operations expensive out of PIT and that they could get a Better deal by shifting Ops to PHL and CLT.

They moved the connecting traffic to PHL and CLT to leave PIT as an O&D market. Funny they did that. Thanks to the fortress hub, and the outrageous pricing scheme that US used there, there WAS NO O&D THERE!!! Maybe I should just face the music that this is the ultimate fate for Pittsburgh despite the new carriers of WN and B6 filling in some of the gaping holes left behind at PIT... (and no, that is not a hit on PHL to justify service at PIT...)

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Haha, that is the question the people like myself, Steeler83, and USPIT10L have been asking for years.

Thanks for the reference  Smile

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 4):
This statement is very true, however they aren't making more money by sending connecting PAX through PHL instead of PIT. A few routes (15 to 20) can be shifted to Pittsburgh to help with congestion, Pittsburgh is a wonderful, clean, and friendly facility!

I fully agree with you.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
It didn't build a $1B airport to entice US Air

Yeah, the stupid politicians that ran Pittsburgh did... And residents of Pittsburgh and Allegheny County continue to pay for it, too! YOU should be paying for the terminal. After all, you DO have more money than we taxpayers have!!

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
PIT supporters really need to get over trying to justify the existance of their airport by bashing PHL and blaming US for downsizing it - and making it profitable.

I have, and as you can see, I put the blame on the idiot poiticians, and the inept, screwey ACAA for their crooked practices... Now, we finally get people with brains like Dan Onorato and Kent George.

Quoting ANCFlyer (Reply 10):
That said, the O&D is there. It's not in PIT where I'd like to see US expand again.

It would be nice to see US expand PIT, or "re-expand" PIT, but I hate to break it to ya: it isn't happening anytime soon, if ever... Perhaps is other carriers move in and make PIT into a multi-focus city airport. That is what I am looking at. I wonder how many flights would classify an airport as a focus city anyway...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
hawk44
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:55 am

I was in PHL a few weeks ago and the only problem I had was the restrooms being a disaster, other then that I liked the airport. Terminal B I think is where my flight departed from and I found it to be very nice, good food court plenty of windows with good views and seating was available as well.

If you want to see a dump check out whatever terminal DL is in at JFK or go to LGB and try to find a seat with 3 B6 flights getting ready to board. There are plenty of airports that are a lot worse then PHL.

Yes PIT is nice but like it or not PIT is not US main focus right now and will probably never be again. WN and B6 are now serving PIT so The world will not end  Yeah sure

Hawk44
Never under estimate the power of US
 
N670UW
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
PIT supporters really need to get over trying to justify the existance of their airport by bashing PHL and blaming US for downsizing it - and making it profitable

Absolutely. The US Airways hub isn't coming back. US probably couldn't re-establish a hub in Pittsburgh even if they wanted to. A lot of things have changed since 2004.

There is always good and bad. The airport has lost flights and jobs, but now it's affordable to fly to places like Philadelphia and Boston. Take your pick.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
In hindsight, Philadelphia was a little wiser than Pittsburgh. It didn't build a $1B airport to entice US Air

Well, in all fairness, a new terminal would had to have been built, USAir hub or no USAir hub. The former Greater Pittsburgh terminal was a dungeon. If that terminal was still open today, today's PHL would look like a palace.

USAir had been collecting gates from other carriers during the 80's at the old terminal, and Ed Colodny made his demands for a massive new midfield terminal, and, the politicians gave in. It happened, everyone has to live with it.

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
If you attempted to upsize PIT to avoid that, then US could wind up back in pre-BK days

Pittsburgh worked in the late 90's because it was at its peak number of flights (more revenue), and fare levels were high. US's prior high lease rates could be justified. Then, after 9/11, Wolf's management cut dozens of flights in Pittsburgh, and the amount of revenue passing through PIT fell. To make it worse, fares fell dramatically along the East Coast.

I don't doubt US lost tons of money in Pittsburgh between 2001-2004.

From what I've read, PHL is not dramatically cheaper to operate from than PIT (as CLT is), but the extra revenue can justify the costs.

As for PHL, it is what it is. As long as PHL is sandwhiched between six of the country's busiest airports (and airspace), and operates with a compact airfield layout, there are going to be problems. You can hire the best workers and the best managers, but it's going to be inefficient. US and its customers will just have to live with it.

[Edited 2006-07-25 05:18:27]
 
steeler83
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:30 pm

Quoting N670UW (Reply 14):
The former Greater Pittsburgh terminal was a dungeon. If that terminal was still open today, today's PHL would look like a palace.

I think the shit would have hit the fan somewhere around 2000-2001 if that were the case, considering that US had 500 daily flights then. Instead, the wrecking ball hit the remains of the old Greater Pittsburgh terminal...

Quoting N670UW (Reply 14):
Pittsburgh worked in the late 90's because it was at its peak number of flights (more revenue), and fare levels were high. US's prior high lease rates could be justified. Then, after 9/11, Wolf's management cut dozens of flights in Pittsburgh, and the amount of revenue passing through PIT fell. To make it worse, fares fell dramatically along the East Coast.

So would it be accurate to say that 9-11 contributed to the demise of the PIT hub, in addition to the bad management of the A.C.A.A. and county?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PiedmontINT
Topic Author
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
Making a general statement that an entire airport is a "Dump" based on experience with less than 20% of the facility is not very credible in my opinion

I actually wandered around quite a bit more than just F and C, I just picked those things that stuck out the most. I went into E and A east as well and E seemed nicer while A east looked about as shabby as C. But anyway, another thing that stuck out to me big time that i didnt mention was almost all of the monitors around C, E, and F were malfunctioning. For someone whose gate has been changed or whose plane has been delayed, etc., that is pretty important information. I can only assume maybe some kind of software glitch but it was screwed up for 3 hours..

[Edited 2006-07-25 05:35:48]
 
TonyBurr
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:32 pm

I have to agree with EVERY word that UAL Bagmasher says about US Express. The attitude of the ramp workers is incredbile! They could care less about ANYTHING!!!!!!
 
steeler83
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:51 pm

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 16):

I have been down the C D and E concourses at PHL, concourse E in particular when I flew on WN. E wasn't to terribly bad. I wish that the ceilings weren't soo low. It brought back memories of the old shabby PIT terminal, which I think was worse...

Terminal D seemed OK, a little better than E, I could see all the way to the end of the terminal. There are a lot of windows there.

C is rather dark and drab...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
B752OS
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 9):
I am not sure why some of you like BOS..personally I hate it very much. Two years ago I got a chance to transit there. Flew in with Icelandair from KEF and connect with Air Canada to Toronto. Icelandair and most foreign airlines are settled in the new Terminal E, the rest in A and B. It seems Terminal E is not part of the airport....plus..no luggage storage....and Boston Airport subway station is surely one of the worst in the world.

Have you ever actually been to the blue stop at Logan? They just renovated the whole station and it looks great. Besides, why would you have a reason to if you were only connecting? Also, how do you figure terminal E is not part of the airport?



I for one never understood why they would choose to send traffic through the mess that is PHL. 9 out of 10 times I connect through there, I have problems. PIT is one of the nicest airports in this country and is very easy to connect through. I would PIT and MSP at the top of nicest/ easiest to connect through. I think when you look at airlines in the U.S and their top 2 hubs, each airport is a pretty nice facility. For examples DTW and MSP are excellent. CLT is pretty decent, and PHL is awful. I think US would want people to have a better image of their airline by sending them through a much nicer airport in PIT than PHL.
 
SonOfACaptain
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:06 pm

PHL certainly has its problems (no way to deny that), but a lot of the reason PHL is looked so down upon is because of people's attitudes. A lot of people expect that midwest "yes sir, yes ma'am" charm, and don't realize that the PHL workers aren't being rude, but that is just the way they act. It's that "northeast" attitude. Also, I realize the PHL terminals suck, but I don't let that bother me. I just take it with a grain of salt, and guess what, I have no problems with connecting in PHL. A lot of ya'lls problem is that you expect too much, or you are too hard, on PHL because they don't have that "southern charm and hospitality".

-SOAC
Non Illegitimi Carborundum
 
apodino
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:20 pm

Actually, I have found most of the US and Piedmont CS people to be very friendly and helpful in PHL. But as UAL Bagsmasher said, one huge problem in PHL is the ramp. A company note today stated that they will have a set of rampers work two flights at the same time. Pictures have turned up of guys sleeping on the job.

We at ZW have been there almost a year now. I can tell you, we have had more damaged airplanes in PHL by rampers and more ramp delays in PHL than we ever did in either ORD or IAD. ORD was staffed by ZW personell which helped, but IAD was staffed by Delta Global, and with them performing better than Piedmont (and that isn't saying much), Piedmont has some issues in PHL. And it won't get any better once shares comes online at East either.
 
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malaysia
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:38 pm

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 5):
I guess the moral of the story is that when you pay someone $8.00/hr in an expensive city like PHL, you get exactly what you pay for. There are a few very hard working Piedmont rampers in PHL who bust ass day in and day out and try to make a difference. Unfortunately their collegues drag down the operation into the sub-basement.

DCA also has an issue with EN (Piedmont) The turnover rate is so high and most quit after the first day (due to too much workload) They are so short, I would assume LGA/CLT/PHL have shortage issues. One slight benefit over
Mainline would be FLEX shifts, no need for Union dues, and same travel/health benefits as mainline. even pay is so much less.

EN did make one exception with former DH ramp agents, they offered annual experience pay credits and gave the first raise on the first day of work, it helped gain some experience. Most of the DCA ramp agents left for Piedmont are Former Independence Air employees now, who have a better reputation of busting and going the extra lenght to get flights out even during shortages.

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 17):
I have to agree with EVERY word that UAL Bagmasher says about US Express. The attitude of the ramp workers is incredbile! They could care less about ANYTHING!!!!!!

Yes they have been very lazy often, and Its the hard workers who get swamped and cant really set an example, cause when they work hard, the lazy workers dont follow,they just feel since that person can do all the duties alone, they just sit and watch. Even it applies to the Supervisors who just load and onload alone while the agents watch. I think they have a major leadership issue. I have some friends who work for Piedmont and the serious issue is many call in sick and many have no call no shows and Management is not bothering with citations and warnings for them, due to not wanting to lose employees, so too many lazy emps have taken the habit of calling out even when being stuck flying and on rainy and cold days and not getting a warning at all. But sometimes the hard workers end up taking the BS when a bag is missed and they did so much to get the bags out on time, but get punished instead of those lazy workers who swap off so much and never work.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
NoBoeingNoGoin
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:39 pm

Just so you know... You can't expect much from rampers who make 9 dollars an hour and have a 13.50 an hour ten year top out salary.
You get what you pay for....
Believe me I work for the Company, and I am ashamed of our knowledgeless workers there!
 
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malaysia
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 2:45 pm

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 23):
You can't expect much from rampers who make 9 dollars an hour and have a 13.50 an hour ten year top out salary.

My friends work at DCA where its a max of 6% annual raise review with no set limit. Most quit before getting 13.50 though.

Some Independence employees got started at Piedmont with 10.66 which was not too bad for first day pay.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
ScottB
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 3:39 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 15):
So would it be accurate to say that 9-11 contributed to the demise of the PIT hub, in addition to the bad management of the A.C.A.A. and county?

I'd say that overall, the county/ACAA had little to do with the pulldown of the PIT hub aside from having given in to USAir (at the time) and building a very expensive terminal more-or-less to USAir's specifications. Much of the reason for so-called "high costs" at PIT is the fact that the fixed costs of the airport (much of which are debt service on the bonds issued to finance the terminal) ended up getting spread over fewer passengers when service was cut back. Cuts of similar scale at CLT would have led to significantly higher costs there, as well.

9-11 did contribute to the end of the PIT hub in the sense that it accelerated US Airways' day of reckoning. US Airways was already losing money in late 2000 and early 2001 even as virtually all of their competitors were practically printing money; this is why Wolf and Gangwal attempted to sell US Airways to United in 2000. But the real core reason for the failure of the PIT hub was ongoing LCC incursion into what had been near-monopoly markets for US in upstate New York and New England, coupled with airlines like DL, CO, and NW using regional jets to poach traffic in smaller markets where US was constrained to offering turboprops due to scope limitations in the pilot contract. As fares dropped in markets like MHT, PVD, BUF, ALB, BDL, etc. and passengers booked away from US Express turboprops, it became progressively more difficult for US Airways to sustain its high cost structure. PIT (and the rest of the airline's network) began losing money, and 9-11 pretty much exacerbated the airline's long-term problems. Even without the collapse in air traffic in late 2001, it's probable that intensifying competition in the region would have led to a US Airways bankruptcy (or a very difficult out-of-court restructuring) or sale within five years. US had a CASM of 12.90 cents in 1999 -- a year when their average fuel cost per gallon was 59 cents. To put that into perspective, WN's CASM was 7.48 cents that year.

The end of the PIT hub is all about the problems at US Airways and the fact that PIT just doesn't generate the same O&D traffic as PHL. As the airline was shrunk and one hub needed to be cut back to shore up the others, PIT was the obvious choice. While PIT actually has significantly better O&D than CLT, CLT is unique as the best alternative to ATL as a hub for the Southeast.
 
steeler83
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting B752os (Reply 19):
For examples DTW and MSP are excellent.

DTW used to be a very crappy airport IIRC. It ranked near the bottom in almost every category. I remember in the late '90s reading in the papers about how PIT DEN and other airports ranked near the top for navigability, food and shopping, and then there was a small list of the worst airports in the country. DTW was up near the top of that list if not at the top. When did they get that new airport? It couldn't have been too terribly long ago, like 5 years if that?
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
halls120
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:52 pm

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 20):
PHL certainly has its problems (no way to deny that), but a lot of the reason PHL is looked so down upon is because of people's attitudes. A lot of people expect that midwest "yes sir, yes ma'am" charm, and don't realize that the PHL workers aren't being rude, but that is just the way they act. It's that "northeast" attitude.

Sorry, but while you might dismiss it as that "northeast attitude," the rest of us call it for what it is - rudeness. Period. Of all the US airports I've been though in my life, PHL and MIA rank at the bottom, with JFK a close runner up.
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
Jano
Posts: 760
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:19 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 26):
When did they get that new airport? It couldn't have been too terribly long ago, like 5 years if that?

Feb 24 2002. And it's very nice!

http://www.nwa.com/corpinfo/newsc/2002/pr022520020925.html
The Widget Air Line :)
 
Flaps
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:12 pm

ScottB

Thank you. You just saved me a ton of typing. Yours is the first post I have seen that accurately explained what happened to PIT. I sincerely hope that it is widely read.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting Vega (Reply 7):
US is in the process of spending $20M to refurbish the B and C terminals at PHL.

See, why does US pay?

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):
That is what I am looking at. I wonder how many flights would classify an airport as a focus city anyway...

A focus city is a name that the airlines use, the number of flights doesn't really matter! B6 calls IAD a focus city, but that operation only has about 20 daily flights. US calls PIT a focus city, and this operation is one of the largest focus cities in the country, with about 162-171 daily flights, depending on the day!

Quoting N670UW (Reply 14):
USAir had been collecting gates from other carriers during the 80's at the old terminal, and Ed Colodny made his demands for a massive new midfield terminal, and, the politicians gave in. It happened, everyone has to live with it.

YES, the new facility was inevitable, they just happened to make the new one QUITE NICE!

Quoting SonOfACaptain (Reply 20):
A lot of ya'lls problem is that you expect too much, or you are too hard, on PHL because they don't have that "southern charm and hospitality".

No, the people of Pittsburgh aren't rude! I don't like the people of the south either...hahaha!

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):
Sorry, but while you might dismiss it as that "northeast attitude," the rest of us call it for what it is - rudeness.

No, the people of Pittsburgh and Cleveland aren't rude! I have to agree with you Halls120, a lot of the people of PHL and around there act very...unfriendly and miserable!

Quoting Flaps (Reply 29):
Thank you. You just saved me a ton of typing. Yours is the first post I have seen that accurately explained what happened to PIT. I sincerely hope that it is widely read.

I also thank you!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
B777-700
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:54 pm

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
The facilities are just shabby all around, tight walkways, packed gates, ripped up and torn seats, dark, and just in a poor state of repair. Between disgruntled and just dumb employees and practices (see ramper with bags on roof) to shady facilities, to lack of runways and taxiways, I hope something can be done in the merger to clean house at PHL and shake things up to improve that abyss...

You don't like it. That doesn't mean it's bad. It just means you don't like it.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
ORDagent
Posts: 580
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting Klyk1980 (Reply 9):
ORD is another story if you have connection between International Terminal to any of the domestic terminal. Please kindly reserve 2 hours at least for such a transit. I dont know why build T5 in such far apart.

T5 was built there because there simply wasn't any room left. It is a huge improvement over T4/T1. T4 was litterally in the basement of the parking garage. You had to take a bus to the hard stand and climb steps in all of our Chicago weather. T5 is still rather efficent for customs and immigrations though and with the transfer system you never go outside like before. It is unfortunate that you can't stay in the secure area and take the train like at FRA.
 
BishopOfPHL
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 30):
See, why does US pay?

Because it's part of their responsibility as a tenant to the lease agreement with the airport (or city) to maintain the gate areas (carpets, chairs, etc.).

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 30):
No, the people of Pittsburgh and Cleveland aren't rude!

PIT and CLE are considered by many to be midwestern cities, rather than northeast cities, hence, the "midwestern" friendliness. It always amazes me PHL and PIT are in the same state sometimes, they are so very different.

As for the PHL renovations, the gates they have rehabbed look nice. I flew through there a couple times this past weekend...it's amazing what a little paint and carpet and new seating can do. I hope those old carpets are taken somewhere far away and burned...god knows what was lurking in some of those stains!

Now if they could get rid of the rappy little kiosks throughout B & C where they sell junk god knows who buys, as well as the buffoons hawking the US credit cards. Those guys are so annoying. No, I don’t want your crappy t-shirt or umbrella gift, lay off.
 
cityguy
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:03 am

Well, like I stated yesterday..PHL and US are the worst run operations in the world and Parker and his band of whatevers are to busy thinking about their own stock options to think about the long term and obscene situation at PHL. Its an utter disgrace and the problems are systemic and deep rooted-starting with the #*&%& Union emplyees who are on the ramp...I cant even begin to tell you eveything I have seen...and I am a FF who is STUCK using PHL. I am now placing calls to local media to get attention and force Parker to answer my letter of complaint from last week...can I post that here?
 
Tony Lu
Posts: 475
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2000 8:48 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:09 am

ever notice the roof of PHL's terminal is the same as the roof of PHL's parking garages?

btw, phl is my home airport
 
cityguy
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 33):
Now if they could get rid of the rappy little kiosks throughout B & C where they sell junk god knows who buys, as well as the buffoons hawking the US credit cards. Those guys are so annoying. No, I don’t want your crappy t-shirt or umbrella gift, lay off.

Well said....HIRE employees to drive the jetways and marshal us in..for crying out loud
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:28 am

I read an article a few months ago about the US Airways PHL hub. It talked about how the America West manager put in charge of the PHL Ops was left speachless after his walk around of the facility. He said it was in such bad disrepair. Everything from giant holes in the wall in the gate hold area to carpet that was so badly faded and stained that he couldn't find a piece of clean carpet in any of the terminals. The ground equipment was in a very sorry state with half of it no functional at any given time. He observed passengers waiting for up to 1.5 hours to claim luggage and the rate of misshandled or lost luggage was aweful. I think the state of the US Airways PHL infastructure is due to the decades of mismanagement and inattention to maintaining and upgrading the infastructure. You can cut cost by laying off employees but ultimately if you don't invest money in new technology and upgrades to your facility you will find no one wants to use your sorry airline. As I understand it the new US Airways headed by America West people has earmarked a large portion of the budget to fixing and upgrading the PHL hub and improving the overall employee and passenger experience at PHL. I don't know how much of this plan has actually been initiated but lets hope it happens sooner rather than later.
 
tommy767
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 27):
Sorry, but while you might dismiss it as that "northeast attitude," the rest of us call it for what it is - rudeness. Period.

Nah thats just the way we roll the northeast! You know, PHL, cheesesteaks and Wawa is not for everyone  Wink
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
mah584jr
Posts: 431
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:57 am

Philadelphia is not the nicest airport, nor the most modern but it happens to be the home airport of millions. Would I like to see terminal improvements; sure. But in the end, PHL has provided me with convenient transportation to anywhere I've wanted to go. I never have to connect; always direct flights. PHL is US Airways most profitable location and they will continue to be because of what the airport "does" offer. I don't care what the terminals look like. There are rude people everywhere, but they don't all work at PHL. Hopefully, once the refurbishments are finished, the airport will look a lot better.
 
halls120
Posts: 8724
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 38):
Nah thats just the way we roll the northeast! You know, PHL, cheesesteaks and Wawa is not for everyone

Fortunately, the Wawas here in northern Virginia hire locals, so that we aren't subjected to northeast rudeness.  Smile
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
BishopOfPHL
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:00 am

A lot of folks (including myself) think that moving some domestic connections back to PIT would alleviate a good chunk of the capacity issues at PHL (and if PIT could take some of the hundreds of RJ's that would be swell too, since the last think PHL needs is another CR9 waiting in position 20 in line to take off). Problem is, the second US moves ops back to PIT (and gets out of any gates), WN is right there to swoop in and add capacity to their already exponentially growing PHL operation. So while PHL has its issues, a good portion of the US PHL strategy is defensive. They're obviously trying to co-exist a-la PHX and LAS with WN, but not let it turn into a BWI-style bloodbath.

Maybe with a few quarters of profits and quality cash flow, we'll see even more $$ spent on PHL. First priority should be to improve the employee situation there. You pay them Wal-Mart wages, you're going to get bottom of the barrel, simple as that.
 
b777a340fan
Posts: 675
Joined: Thu Oct 27, 2005 12:42 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I honestly felt pretty ashamed walking around the terminals and taking the bus between the F and C terminals.

PHL isn't the only "big" airport that requires you to take a bus from terminal to terminal. IAD/CDG are two, just to name a few. And those two probably handle more traffic than PHL.

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
When i took the bus between F and C, we rode around on the tarmac (one positive, at least i got up close and personal with alot of planes) and I actually saw 3 baggage carts pulled around completely full with bags stacked ON TOP OF THE CART!!! No wonder luggage is lost so often in PHL, its probably sitting on some taxiway somewhere!!!

Not to sound like a smart  butthead , but that's how most airports/airlines carry their luggages. I think the Jenga of luggages happens pretty much everywhere, you just don't see it.

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 17):
I have to agree with EVERY word that UAL Bagmasher says about US Express. The attitude of the ramp workers is incredbile! They could care less about ANYTHING!!!!!!

I don't think that's fair...just like any other profession, some people actually do take their jobs seriously. Luggage losses are characteristics of all airlines...
 
BishopOfPHL
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 38):
You know, PHL, cheesesteaks and Wawa is not for everyone

Dude, I'm stuffing my face with a shorti Ital. hoagie from Wawa as I type this. Freaky.
 
US AIRWAYS
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 9:56 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:23 am

Man do I miss Wawa. I'd kill for them to somehow spread across the country into AZ.
Go Eagles!
 
jfrworld
Posts: 377
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2004 8:21 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:41 am

Fixing PHL is one of the top priorities of the US management. Here's a link to an excellent article that was written a few months ago about the challenges of PHL. The funny part is that the new US management (HP) actually talk about PHL being old and grimy.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...cles/0430biz-philadelphia0430.html


Enjoy
 
YYZSaabGuy
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 9:49 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:17 am

A minority view here: I wound up camped out at PHL on July 15th for about six hours (WX delays and maintenance problems) before rerouting via CLT, and then on the 22nd for another six hours on the way back due to more terrific thunderstorm pyrotechnics (!!!). Spent most of my time in Terminals F and B.......gate agents were brisk and efficient, but polite...shopping was okay...restrooms clean....overall decor was a bit rundown/shabby but I've seen worse....and, as HAWK44 pointed out, some great views from B...my own bottom line: while I can't comment about unionized ramper mayhem, I've I've seen much, much worse than PHL. Besides: I'm not looking to BUY the airport, just camp out there for a bit between flights.
 
coa747
Posts: 380
Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 3:11 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting Jfrworld (Reply 45):
Fixing PHL is one of the top priorities of the US management. Here's a link to an excellent article that was written a few months ago about the challenges of PHL. The funny part is that the new US management (HP) actually talk about PHL being old and grimy.

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu....html

That is the article I was talking about in my post above. The reason PHL is in such disrepair is because of simple neglect. The Old US Airways didn't spend money on PHL for a long time whether because of bankruptcy, no cash, bad management it doesn't really matter. It all adds up to PHL being a pit. Hopefully the HP management can turn this around. Spending money to update employee facilities should help to build some trust with employees to show them the new carrier is committed to improving working conditions. The PHL situtation reminds me a lot of Continental's situation just after Lorenzo was booted out. He sucked Eastern and Continental dry slashing costs and the results showed in the tired facilities that were left behind at IAH especially. One of the first things Bethune and his team did was clean up the mess and fix up the employee facilities. Did a lot to bring the front line people on to management's side.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:56 am

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 43):
Dude, I'm stuffing my face with a shorti Ital. hoagie from Wawa as I type this. Freaky.

Those are the best! I feel like I'm at an airport whenever I use the Sandwich Kiosks at the closest Wawa to me which is a half-hour away. (Montgomery, NJ)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
US AIRWAYS
Posts: 455
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 9:56 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:23 am

I should add I spent almost two years out on the ramp in PHL, and just recentely transferred. I saw anything and everything, but it was probably the most fun I've ever had regardless of the weather, equipment shortages, etc. There are some really great and hardworking employees who bust their butts in 10 degree weather in heavy snow who are able turn a fully loaded 757 with 300 bags and 193 people to get it out to Vegas. Nonetheless, there are a few bad apples who do spoil it for everyone, and yes, you do get what you pay for. The pay rates are absolutely horrible, and that's one of the reasons those bad apples are there in the first place. I do think this new management team is making an effort to fix what the old management did not. It's nice when you walk around the ramp and see Anthony Mule running around meeting with employees saying how disgusting he thought the employee areas were and that he's actually going to do something about it. He's also doing the same about the gate areas. Everytime I fly back home it seems they are making more and more progress. Everyone just needs to give PHL a chance. They are making the changes, slowly but steadily. Hopefully one day soon there won't be as many complaints.
Go Eagles!

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