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PiedmontINT
Topic Author
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting B777A340Fan (Reply 42):
PHL isn't the only "big" airport that requires you to take a bus from terminal to terminal. IAD/CDG are two, just to name a few. And those two probably handle more traffic than PHL.

For the record, I never said in any way that it was bad that i had to take a bus between terminals. My home airport is MCI so trust me, i am beyond used to having to take a bus to get from one terminal to another...
 
cityguy
Posts: 72
Joined: Sun Dec 25, 2005 3:12 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:34 am

Quoting Coa747 (Reply 37):
I read an article a few months ago about the US Airways PHL hub. It talked about how the America West manager put in charge of the PHL Ops was left speachless after his walk around of the facility. He said it was in such bad disrepair. Everything from giant holes in the wall in the gate hold area to carpet that was so badly faded and stained that he couldn't find a piece of clean carpet in any of the terminals. The ground equipment was in a very sorry state with half of it no functional at any given time. He observed passengers waiting for up to 1.5 hours to claim luggage and the rate of misshandled or lost luggage was aweful. I think the state of the US Airways PHL infastructure is due to the decades of mismanagement and inattention to maintaining and upgrading the infastructure. You can cut cost by laying off employees but ultimately if you don't invest money in new technology and upgrades to your facility you will find no one wants to use your sorry airline. As I understand it the new US Airways headed by America West people has earmarked a large portion of the budget to fixing and upgrading the PHL hub and improving the overall employee and passenger experience at PHL. I don't know how much of this plan has actually been initiated but lets hope it happens sooner rather than later.

Some new Carpet..BFD!!!!
 
captaink
Posts: 4010
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:38 am

I have flown through PHL on numerous occasions. The airport is not that bad to look at. True AWest is spanking new and the rest of the concurses aren't but i have seen worse terminals in US, starting with the central terminal of LGA. PHL baggage is a problem, the rest is ok. I personally enjoy the Walk through mall between B/C Concourse.
Look Up
 
cityguy
Posts: 72
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I just had my first experience with the fine facility known as the Philadelphia International Airport. I honestly felt pretty ashamed walking around the terminals and taking the bus between the F and C terminals. What in the world is US doing in such a dump? Why not dismantle the hub and build up one of the focus cities such as BOS ? I realize that most of the reasons PIT was taken down was lack of O&D, if i remember correctly. I honestly can't believe US would sacrifice a brand new terminal built just for them in PIT for the hellhole in PHL.

When i took the bus between F and C, we rode around on the tarmac (one positive, at least i got up close and personal with alot of planes) and I actually saw 3 baggage carts pulled around completely full with bags stacked ON TOP OF THE CART!!! No wonder luggage is lost so often in PHL, its probably sitting on some taxiway somewhere!!!


The facilities are just shabby all around, tight walkways, packed gates, ripped up and torn seats, dark, and just in a poor state of repair. Between disgruntled and just dumb employees and practices (see ramper with bags on roof) to shady facilities, to lack of runways and taxiways, I hope something can be done in the merger to clean house at PHL and shake things up to improve that abyss...

Oh, and lets not forget the overall PHL manager! What has he done to fix the problem?.
 
Flaps
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:59 am

You know, when all is said and done and US has invested those afformentioned dollars in PHL, what exactly will they have gained????

The place will look nicer but:

There will still be insufficent runway capacity.
There will still be insuffient airspace capacity.
It will still be very inefficient.
WN will still be biting at their heels.
B6 will still be shitting on their heads.
US' domestic northeast market position will still be eroding.
Cost per passenger will be increasing.
There will still be a ton of rude and poor employees.

Finally, last but far from least, although upper management has changed, middle, lower and upper middle management is still largely in place. Do we really think these demoralized people who helped to create the existing mess really have the ability and fortitude to fix it? A few certainly. As a group? I doubt it.
 
airwave
Posts: 1105
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
There will still be insufficent runway capacity.

Short term, yes. Long term: Runway 17/35 Extension

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
There will still be insuffient airspace capacity.

Short term, yes. Long term: NAS Redesign

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
It will still be very inefficient.

Short term, yes. Long term: PHL Redesign

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
WN will still be biting at their heels.

Only for the markets where they compete, which is *not* overseas or to secondary and tertiary markets.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
B6 will still be shitting on their heads.

See above point. And besides, when you consider B6 isn't even in PHL (and shows no signs of coming, either), direct competition (since that's what this is all about--PHL, not EWR or MCO or anywhere else) with them isn't even an issue.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
US' domestic northeast market position will still be eroding.

Even as it is expanding out west, where there is continued population growth. Even as it is expanding oversees where there is continued revenue growth. Even as there are more cross-country long-hauls, which brings in revenue *and* passengers. The money isn't in the Northeast anymore--fare wars have long since seen to that; it's overseas, out west, and in connecting the two coasts with everything in between.

And so what if they lose market share? Companies (and not just in ComAv) are *finally* getting it through their heads that the 1990s dogma of market share and stock price as the be-all, end-all of important measures of success doesn't work. US, WN, and B6 all showcase that in this industry. Apple, Netflix, and Panera Bread show it in others.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
Cost per passenger will be increasing.

This one I don't know anything about, because I've *also* heard that it'll *decrease*. Personally, I think in the long term (accounting for inflation), it'll be about the same as it is today.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
There will still be a ton of rude and poor employees.

Just as there will still be several tons of rude and ignorant passengers--regardless of the quality of service rendered.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
Finally, last but far from least, although upper management has changed, middle, lower and upper middle management is still largely in place. Do we really think these demoralized people who helped to create the existing mess really have the ability and fortitude to fix it? A few certainly. As a group? I doubt it.

Well, they've done a pretty good job thus far, teething problems and all. It's not the easiest thing to merge two completely different airlines and their cultures, y'know. Give them a chance, at least until after the merger is complete. If things are still sucky...

Clearly you've made up your mind as to how this story will be written, but I'm sure the employees of US, by and large, believe there will be a better, workable outcome. As for myself, I'm keeping an open mind.


Airwave  eyebrow 
When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.
 
spartanmjf
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:10 am

I flew out of PHL today on an early WN flight - this is my eleventh flight into or out of PHL this year on a variety of carriers.

US is bad because of the sheer volume of flights. WN gets stuck with checkin at E but most flights in the dump known as D. DL & NW are stuck with checkin at E and the ridiculous plywood cattle chutes leading into TSA.

Can we talk about the ramp operations for all of the airlines in PHL? The up and down elevator and escalator travel that is needed? The incessant delays? The filthy condition of most terminal buildings, restrooms, public areas, etc?

Given that I have a choice, I usually choose BWI - FAR CLEANER, far FEWER delays, more options for domestic LCC travel, and generally, by and large, a far easier experience.

There are VERY FEW airports in the US or in the industrialized world as bad as PHL.
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
steeler83
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 29):
You just saved me a ton of typing. Yours is the first post I have seen that accurately explained what happened to PIT. I sincerely hope that it is widely read.

Yeah, I thank you as well myself. So PIT was more or less a mess just waiting to happen, and 9-11 really did it in. It was more like the final nail in the coffin...

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 33):
PIT and CLE are considered by many to be midwestern cities, rather than northeast cities, hence, the "midwestern" friendliness. It always amazes me PHL and PIT are in the same state sometimes, they are so very different.

What do you consider Pittsburgh to be, Midwest or Northeast?

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 41):
A lot of folks (including myself) think that moving some domestic connections back to PIT would alleviate a good chunk of the capacity issues at PHL (and if PIT could take some of the hundreds of RJ's that would be swell too, since the last think PHL needs is another CR9 waiting in position 20 in line to take off).

That would be good for both markets, and I think that PHL would benefit much more from that. But, do you think that US would consider moving ops back to PIT considering the O&D goldmine at PHL? I think we'll see those birds and routes stay put at PHL. How much would you bet that they'll be half empty if they're routed through PIT?

And... I am sure I'll get  flamed  for saying that...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
vega
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:35 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 56):
Given that I have a choice, I usually choose BWI - FAR CLEANER, far FEWER delays, more options for domestic LCC travel, and generally, by and large, a far easier experience.

Is that because you live there? More options - come on now, you're stretching there. One flight to Europe, WN, 2 or 3 UA west coast non-stops is about it - we'll not include Icelandic and Greenland as "real" Europe. You can get to as many places on WN (The LCC) from PHL as you can from BWI. BWI lost a lot of business when WN came to PHL and they can't get over it. I do like the airport, but comparing it to PHL is like comparing PHL to ATL and ORD combined.

[Edited 2006-07-25 23:53:03]
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
vega
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:44 am

I'll tell you all something about Philadelphia. Historically, the political machine has always sat back and waited until everyone else produces something. Then they create the best of the lot and produce it. Stadiums, music centers, buildings, etc.. The advantage of course is that typically when the city builds something, it is state of the art and inspiring - Look here at current projects - long overdue: http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=107638
I post this link only as an illustration of my point

The downside is that the citizenry has to tolerate the "old stuff" (e.g., the Airport) for much longer than most would like. The city and state do have a plan to create a new airport - in fact they already presented it to the FAA. The real question is one of logistics and cost - where is the best location and how will it be funded. If they retain the current location, it will be a logistics nightmare to deconstruct/reconstruct all of the Terminal buildings and runways, except for A-West - the International Terminal, which I understand would remain as is. The real question is, when will this massive effort begin and what will it finally produce?
Another point that needs consideration is that a new airport = high landing fees and higher ticket prices - one of the main reasons PIT is what it is today. Unfortunately, when a new facility is completed, the same Bashers will dig, invent and blow out of proportion, every piece of uneven sliver of paint they detect.
We are but a moment in this vast Universe and when gone we will never have existed.
 
Jalto27R
Posts: 841
Joined: Tue May 18, 2004 8:49 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:29 am

Quoting ORD2PHL (Reply 11):
It's our craphole and we love it.



Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
honestly can't believe US would sacrifice a brand new terminal built just for them in PIT for the hellhole in PHL.

Haha, that is the question the people like myself, Steeler83, and USPIT10L have been asking for years.

Regards,
PITA333


So what if PHL has a bunch of ramp gangs, and can't read Dr Seuss, cause we got the bling...yeah ya heur? Maybe if you civilized PIT guys knew how to rack in the , people would still give a rats .

Word.


Mike
(who takes this forum seriously anymore, anyways?)

[Edited 2006-07-26 00:36:55]
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:26 am

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 33):
Because it's part of their responsibility as a tenant to the lease agreement with the airport (or city) to maintain the gate areas (carpets, chairs, etc.).

Ok, thank you!

Quoting Vega (Reply 59):
Unfortunately, when a new facility is completed, the same Bashers will dig, invent and blow out of proportion, every piece of uneven sliver of paint they detect.

I have to agree here...
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
ScottB
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Airwave (Reply 55):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
WN will still be biting at their heels.

Only for the markets where they compete, which is *not* overseas or to secondary and tertiary markets.

The problem is that all of those "secondary and tertiary markets" represent a tiny fraction of the domestic O&D traffic from PHL. In Q4 of 2005, domestic O&D traffic to and from PHL (both directions) averaged just under 44,000 passengers per day in all markets which produced more than 10 daily passengers. Taking "secondary and tertiary markets" to be all markets with under 250 and 100 daily passengers respectively, the total daily O&D passenger traffic in those markets for PHL was 2620 passengers -- or 6% of all O&D traffic at PHL. Combining those with "primary" markets (>250 daily passengers) where they face no non-stop competition (CLT, IND, MCI) brings their monopoly markets to around 4200 daily passengers, or just under 10% of PHL O&D. Their position in non-competitive markets is no longer sufficient to shore up the competitive markets.

Moreover, 65 of 448 daily departures are in domestic markets which generate fewer than 10 daily O&D passengers, while an additional 68 are in markets generating fewer than 50 daily O&D passengers for US -- meaning that 30% of the US Airways (mainline + express) departures from PHL serve less than 1% of PHL O&D traffic.

With low-fare carrier expansion at PHL (both WN and FL) and existing service from network carriers, there are few domestic markets of any appreciable size in which US Airways does not face competition; moreover, the other network carriers tend to beat US in both yield and market share on the routes to their hubs from PHL.
 
BishopOfPHL
Posts: 104
Joined: Fri Apr 30, 2004 10:35 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:12 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 57):
What do you consider Pittsburgh to be, Midwest or Northeast?

I'd have to say it's more Midwestern, just the impression I get from having family on both ends of PA and being out there a lot. Amongst comparably-sized cities, it's a whole lot more like Cincinatti than it is Boston or Baltimore. Also, you've got BW3's out there, we don't, damn it.

Quoting Vega (Reply 59):
I'll tell you all something about Philadelphia

Fantastic post, Vega, great link too, thanks.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 62):
the other network carriers tend to beat US in both yield and market share on the routes to their hubs from PHL.

Another great post, ScottB. You're right, AA/UA crushes US on PHL-ORD, NW on MSP/DTW, AA to DFW, UA to DEN, etc, etc. Who wants to take a CRJ to DTW or gasp! all the way to MSP?? Oh wait, I recently did PHL-DTW on ZW and only had a very late flight going out and flight cancellation coming home! Maybe it's just me, but US seems to send its crustiest old 734's to competitors' hub cities (ORD, DEN, MIA, IAH).
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 63):
I'd have to say it's more Midwestern,

Hot damn!! I grew up in the Midwest!!! HAHAA!!! So the geography and the people pretty much say it all!  Smile Besides, my mom works for an international insurance company selling malpractice insurance. The Pittsburgh office is even in the Midwestern division along with the Chicago, San Antonio, and other offices in the region.

Quoting BishopOfPHL (Reply 63):
Who wants to take a CRJ to DTW or gasp! all the way to MSP??

Wait, US runs a CRJ from PHL to MSP? What the hell?!!! NW runs DC9s on that route, even from PIT! Come on US! Get with the program!!!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
vegasplanes
Posts: 690
Joined: Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:22 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:35 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 64):
Hot damn!! I grew up in the Midwest!!!



Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 26):
When did they get that new airport? It couldn't have been too terribly long ago, like 5 years if that?

Yeah, PIT a blue-collar town akin to a DTW or CLE more than a PHL, NYC, or BOS, more the white-collar type of places.

DTW got the MAC-McNamara Terminal for NW three years ago ? or so. They are going to build the North terminal for everybody other than NW and Skyteam to replace the Smith and Berry terminals. Check out the website, I forget the address, try Detroit Metro Airport on Google or Yahoo, they have nice renditions and what not.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:49 am

Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 65):
Yeah, PIT a blue-collar town akin to a DTW or CLE more than a PHL, NYC, or BOS, more the white-collar type of places.



Quoting Vegasplanes (Reply 65):
DTW got the MAC-McNamara Terminal for NW three years ago ? or so. They are going to build the North terminal for everybody other than NW and Skyteam to replace the Smith and Berry terminals. Check out the website, I forget the address, try Detroit Metro Airport on Google or Yahoo, they have nice renditions and what not

Yeah one of the above posters said that it opened on February 24, 2002. Nice to see that they continue to improve the facility up there.
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5044
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
I actually saw 3 baggage carts pulled around completely full with bags stacked ON TOP OF THE CART!!!

We often put surfboards, golf clubs, skis etc. on top. I've never seen one fall off in all my time working the ramp, and they do not fit in the cart. That said, I DO NOT like to see people put actual luggage, car seats etc on top (they try to sometimes) as they DO fall off.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 12):
I wonder how many flights would classify an airport as a focus city anyway...

I don't think it's number so much as non-hub destinations served.

Quoting N670UW (Reply 14):
You can hire the best workers and the best managers, but it's going to be inefficient.

But if you don't hire the best, the operation will often be WORSE than inefficient.

Quoting NoBoeingNoGoin (Reply 23):
Just so you know... You can't expect much from rampers who make 9 dollars an hour and have a 13.50 an hour ten year top out salary.
You get what you pay for....
Believe me I work for the Company, and I am ashamed of our knowledgeless workers there!

I started out at about $8.50 (officially 7.25 or so, but we had geo differential) and I've been busting my ass the entire time, as have the three others that were hired with me. We can always quit if we want more money, but we like the job. Who the hell wants to stay on the ramp for ten years? I know a couple ten-year rampers and all they do is bitch about the job and act carelessly. What's the point people?

Quoting Cityguy (Reply 34):
Well, like I stated yesterday..PHL and US are the worst run operations in the world and Parker and his band of whatevers are to busy thinking about their own stock options to think about the long term and obscene situation at PHL.

Solution: you come out to PHL, wave your magic wand and make it all better. Until then, try some patience. ALL TOGETHER NOW...the MERGER is NOT COMPLETE.

Quoting Cityguy (Reply 53):
Oh, and lets not forget the overall PHL manager! What has he done to fix the problem?.

If you are referring to ground ops, he was just hired. Otherwise, I have no idea.

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
Cost per passenger will be increasing.
There will still be a ton of rude and poor employees.

Cost per passenger will be increasing why? CASM has been going down steadily since the merger last I heard.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 57):
But, do you think that US would consider moving ops back to PIT considering the O&D goldmine at PHL?

I personally think PIT would be nice to route some of the Northeast transcon connects through. But what do I know, I'm just a bin monkey.

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 64):
Wait, US runs a CRJ from PHL to MSP? What the hell?!!! NW runs DC9s on that route, even from PIT! Come on US! Get with the program!!!

I'd bet money this will become an E-190 route, which will kick the DC-9s butt comfort and efficiency-wise.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:15 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 67):
I'd bet money this will become an E-190 route, which will kick the DC-9s butt comfort and efficiency-wise

I hope to dear GOD that it becomes an E90 route. Heh, the superior E90 will run the DC9 out of town in my book!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:23 pm

I'm in and out of PHL a fair amount and I feel for you all.

Being from DTW, we always got crapped on for the sorry state of our old airport. Now, with the new NW Worldgateway, 4th parallel runway, and the new North terminal under construction, we went from worst to first.

Its okay, I still think Concourse B in IAH is far worse than anything in PHL.
 
ejmmsu
Posts: 1647
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:27 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 68):
I hope to dear GOD that it becomes an E90 route. Heh, the superior E90 will run the DC9 out of town in my book!

With the rumored NW fleet renewal plans, its quite likely that two airilnes will be running E190's on that route before too long  Smile
"If the facts do not conform to the theory, they will have to be disposed of"
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:43 pm

Quoting Ejmmsu (Reply 70):
With the rumored NW fleet renewal plans, its quite likely that two airilnes will be running E190's on that route before too long

Oh, right. I forgot about NW doing that and going with the E90. I even posted a statement on that one thread about how it could be a replacement for the DC9...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4167
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 64):

Wait, US runs a CRJ from PHL to MSP? What the hell?!!! NW runs DC9s on that route, even from PIT! Come on US! Get with the program!!!

Yes, US has a habit of flying RJ's to competitor hubs from PHL
ATL
US used to be all mainline, then it went to a mix and now its 6 CRJ's. I heard it might become a mix soon though.
All the while DL flies 10 mainline a day and FL 6 a day.
ORD
US used to fly 733's around 6 times a day. Recently they have upgraded to some Airbus aircraft.
UA flies anywhere from 9-14(is it still hourly) flts with a mix of 733/5's, A32x, and 752's. AA flies 5 MD80's and 2 CR7's.
DTW
US all RJ(CRJ, ERJ, 170)
NW 7 mainline
MSP
US all RJ(CRJ, 170)
NW 5 mainline
DFW
US mix 3 mainline 2 170
AA 8 mainline
IAH
US all 170's
CO 6 mainline...they used to fly only 733's and 735's, now they typically fly 2-3 738 and 73G's a day
 
supa7E7
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 67):
I'd bet money this will become an E-190 route, which will kick the DC-9s butt comfort and efficiency-wise.

PHL-MSP is now mostly E-170, obviously a CRJ200 would be stretched to the maximum on that route. Operational difficulty probably played a role.
"Who's to say spaceships aren't fine art?" - Phil Lesh
 
apodino
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 73):
PHL-MSP is now mostly E-170, obviously a CRJ200 would be stretched to the maximum on that route. Operational difficulty probably played a role.

Thank god too. I used to dispatch that flight for ZW all the time. Let me tell you something. No one at ZW wanted to operate that flight and no one at ZW thinks that we should be operating that route. The problem is operational people need to start giving input on fleet assignments, and don't leave it up to marketing people who have no #$%^ing idea what these planes are capable of.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 73):
PHL-MSP is now mostly E-170, obviously a CRJ200

Not to mention, who would even want to be stuck in a sardine can with wings for that long?!!!
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
User avatar
malaysia
Posts: 2667
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RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 67):
We often put surfboards, golf clubs, skis etc. on top. I've never seen one fall off in all my time working the ramp, and they do not fit in the cart. That said, I DO NOT like to see people put actual luggage, car seats etc on top (they try to sometimes) as they DO fall off.

Your Safety Video states that absolutely nothing is to be placed on top of a
bag cart
(I HAVE SEEN SURF BOARDS FALL AND SNAP OFF THE DL BAG CARTS IN LAX)
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
F9Animal
Posts: 4447
Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 7:13 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:27 am

Quoting UALramperORD (Reply 8):
Hmm... sounds like an airline I know *cough ORD, IAD *

LOL! And SEA! AS.

Quoting UAL Bagsmasher (Reply 5):
US's Express ramp operation in PHL is asinine. The majority (not all) of the Piedmont rampers couldn't care less if the flights leave on time or not, not to mention baggage. We average one aircraft damage by Piedmont rampers every other week or so. Every few weeks or so we have to ferry an aircraft to our heavy check facility to undergo ramp rash repairs. I have never seen such a disorganized ramp before. Just yesterday, I personally witnessed one of our flights waiting more than 12 minutes for a marshaller. Finally a ramp supervisor showed up and ended up parking the plane and unloading it... single-handedly. There is no excuse for this type of behavior. I see rampers parking beltloaders with their rubber bumpers pancaked flat up against the aircraft on a daily basis. A beltloader should NEVER touch an aircraft. I have persoanlly been cleared to taxi into the gate when a bag cart was clearly in the envelope. Yesterday a ramper threw a temper tantrum when a pilot refused to taxi in due to a large piece of F.O.D. near the lead-in line. The list goes on and on. The work ethic of the Piedmont rampers is nowhere to be found, and their training is piss poor.

I guess the moral of the story is that when you pay someone $8.00/hr in an expensive city like PHL, you get exactly what you pay for. There are a few very hard working Piedmont rampers in PHL who bust ass day in and day out and try to make a difference. Unfortunately their collegues drag down the operation into the sub-basement.

I bet half of the crew moved from Menzies in SEA. Sounds like an EXACT ditto of Alaska in SEA.
I Am A Different Animal!!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5044
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Thu Jul 27, 2006 4:58 pm

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 76):
Your Safety Video states that absolutely nothing is to be placed on top of a
bag cart

You are correct. The people making the video did not take surfboards into consideration, as they will not fit in a bag cart, even diagonally, meaning they have to be transported on top. As long as the driver doesn't whip around corners and takes it easy going, there shouldn't be a problem especially as there are rubber retainers in the corners of the cart roof to keep long items from falling off.
 
eajpecrca
Posts: 36
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2006 1:03 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:10 am

Re baggage at PHL

I reside in the PHL market, like the airport and have flown US PHL-SFO 4 times in the past month. On first flight 3 of 4 bags didn't make it to SFO even though we arrived in plenty of time. On return to PHL bag all 4 made it but wait was an hour!

On last flight all made it to SFO but bag pickup was much slower there than it used to be.

Flew first class on latest flight to PHL and priority baggage tag got me the bags only 5 minutes after arriving at pickup! I was amazed! So that's progress!

I'd really like to see PHL shine some day so that it would stop all the gripes!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:56 am

Quoting Eajpecrca (Reply 79):
I'd really like to see PHL shine some day so that it would stop all the gripes!

Ditto
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting PITA333 (Reply 1):
Yes and no. O&D did play a large roll in taking down PIT. However, the larger factor was that US Airways said that the ACAT (the Allegheny County Airport Athority) was making operations expensive out of PIT and that they could get a Better deal by shifting Ops to PHL and CLT. Some aspects of this are ture and some are pure BS!

Interestingly, pre-pulldown, PIT was US Airways' second-largest station in terms of O&D traffic, behind PHL, but that isn't the surprising part. CLT was SIXTH (yes, behind all three shuttle airports).

Quoting Airwave (Reply 3):
They've already taken care of the planes, so I'm sure "PHL A East, C" is on Doug Parker's To Do list.

I sincerely hope that A-East is NOT on Doug Parker's to-do list, considering that US Airways does not use a single gate in A-East. Air Jamaica, American, British, Midwest, and USA 3000 are the tenants in that concourse. B, on the other hand, is a US Airways concourse, and one that BADLY is in need of an overhaul, probably worse than C.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
Flaps
Posts: 1659
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2000 1:11 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 67):
Cost per passenger will be increasing why? CASM has been going down steadily since the merger last I heard.

Let me rephrase my point. I was actually referring to cost per passenger at PHL, poor phraseaology on my point. There was an article back in 2003/2004 that compared the per passenger costs at PIT, PHL and CLT. Dont hold me to these numbers but they are close (I'm going from memory here) but it was something like this:

PIT - $14.25
PHL - $3.75
CLT - $3.25

For the period quoted (it was for a couple of years prior to the article) none of the recent or current improvements at either PHL or CLT had happened. As more and more money is put into PHL those costs are going to keep increasing. Add to that the cost of delays and the fare pressure put on by WN in PHL and B6 drawing away connecting traffic from the northeast and you have some serious yield pressure. People are going out of their way to avoid PHL at a time when it needs to be increasing passengers to offset the cost of badly needed improvements. Re-read posts 25 and 62 by ScottB. What happened at PIT is starting to happen at PHL. The transatlantic yields out of PHL are shoring up the whole operation. There may come a time if domestic yields continue to fall when those overseas markets will no longer cover the losses.

Quoting Airwave (Reply 55):
Even as it is expanding out west, where there is continued population growth. Even as it is expanding oversees where there is continued revenue growth. Even as there are more cross-country long-hauls, which brings in revenue *and* passengers. The money isn't in the Northeast anymore--fare wars have long since seen to that; it's overseas, out west, and in connecting the two coasts with everything in between.

So if the west is so important and that is where all the money is, why did Parker go after US and its "unimportant" markets????? Why do they continue to place emphasis on PHL if the Northeast isnt important?
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:35 am

Ok question.. I have to travel with a group from DTW to PHL and on to GLA on Aug 12. We will be coming in on ZW 3760 and conx. with US564. I have heard that we have to take a bus from F gates to A gates. Is this true? And that we have to clear Securty again? I know we will be coming in to gate F30 to 34 and going out of A4. Could someone help me with this. I have 39 people with this group.

Thanks

chuck
 
goomba
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 11:55 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:44 am

DTWAGENT - nothing at PHL is on time, so I have to believe that you will have little to no trouble with making this connection.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8235
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:17 am

No, you will not have to reclear security. The bus from concourse F is inside the secure area.
 
PHLBOS
Posts: 6520
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting Airwave (Reply 55):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
There will still be insufficent runway capacity.

Short term, yes. Long term: Runway 17/35 Extension

Work is under way for the initial construction phase of this project. Look for Route 291 between Scott Way and Island Ave. to be relocated onto Bartram Ave. later this year to make way for the expanded Runway 17 area.

Quoting Airwave (Reply 55):
Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
There will still be insuffient airspace capacity.

Short term, yes. Long term: NAS Redesign

Quoting Flaps (Reply 54):
It will still be very inefficient.

Short term, yes. Long term: PHL Redesign

These 2 projects are more reaching and already have had run-ins with Delaware County and other township officials (and not just Tinicum Township) both during and after the initial public presentations. On the airspace redesign, County officials along with both US Reps. & State Reps. in the area have come out in fierce opposition to any of the 3 new options.

About a month or 2 ago, DOA Director Charles Idsell had a letter published in the Philadelphia inquirer basically stating (in a nutshell) that if PHL-area air travelers want to see these far-reaching plans become reality; they need to start attending the public meetings that the FAA puts out to voice their support. In short, either put up or shut up.

The NIMBY opposition to any airport expansion project is a well-organized force to be reckoned with and should not be underestimated. They know how to play the delay game to a point that the proposals wind up getting scrapped.

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 56):
WN gets stuck with checkin at E but most flights in the dump known as D. DL & NW are stuck with checkin at E and the ridiculous plywood cattle chutes leading into TSA.

I feel your pain on that one, I've had to use D & E many times for flights w/DL, FL & WN) this year. Fortunately, construction for the newly expanded D-E Terminal is underway (the initial utility and foundation work). When completed, the TSA security checkpoints for D & E will have 12 lanes and the check-in area will be a lot larger.

[Edited 2006-07-31 22:53:22]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8235
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:37 am

With 39 people in a group, I'm pretty sure that US would hold the GLA flight if your group is running on a tight connection. That is over a 1/5th of that flight!
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:17 am

Quoting Flaps (Reply 82):
Let me rephrase my point. I was actually referring to cost per passenger at PHL, poor phraseaology on my point. There was an article back in 2003/2004 that compared the per passenger costs at PIT, PHL and CLT. Dont hold me to these numbers but they are close (I'm going from memory here) but it was something like this:

PIT - $14.25
PHL - $3.75
CLT - $3.25

That is supremely outrageous!!! What in the hell is the ACAA thinking charging those kinds of fees to the airlines. It's an airport, not the Taj Majal in that regard. They need to get it into their heads that they may be trying to land a new carrier, but with costs per passenger up in the THERMOSPHERE, it isn't happening... Cut this by at least 75% then we'll talk...

They may argue that by offering lower costs will build little revenue. I beg to differ. This will entice other carriers to come in and flood the market, as well as allow any existing carriers to maybe expand existing service, and I think this will still drive up revenues in the long run...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
lhrmaccoll
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:12 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting PiedmontINT (Thread starter):
What in the world is US doing in such a dump? Why not dismantle the hub and build up one of the focus cities such as BOS ?

Agreed, its a complete $**thole but its where the money is I guess
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5044
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:44 am

Correction. The airport is a dump...the location is prime. So there's no point in talking about "moving the hub" as that would be akin to saying "ATL/ORD/DFW sucks, they should just move the hub." As if all those O&D pax will just follow the hub as it moves around the country  Yeah sure

PHL isn't even that bad. The operations suck. If everyone's bags arrived to their plane on time and the employees had a friendly, helpful attitude, there wouldn't be nearly as much commentary on how much the airport itself sucks.
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Lhrmaccoll (Reply 89):
its a complete $**thole but its where the money is I guess

That is what we have argued on this thread the whole time. I encourage you to read this thread and look at some of the arguments. You might enjoy it in spite of its length  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
A330323X
Posts: 2666
Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2003 4:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 81):
I sincerely hope that A-East is NOT on Doug Parker's to-do list, considering that US Airways does not use a single gate in A-East.

US uses a number of gates on A-East every single day.
I'm the expert on here on two things, neither of which I care about much anymore.
 
malexander131
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:50 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:06 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 92):

US uses a number of gates on A-East every single day.

What gates does US use in A-East?
And also, what is the policy on using A-West for domestic flights? I recently deplaned a flight from LAS in A-West and saw another US flight for San Diego borading in the same concourse.
"It's the little room in the front of the plane where the pilots sit, but that's not important right now."
 
usairways85
Posts: 4167
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:13 am

I would assume US uses any of the custom ready gates at A-east(A6, A8, A10, and A12 if a remember correctly)

US needs better utilization of its gates in A-west so during the off peak international hours they will park several domestic flts there.
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:21 am

Thanks for answering my questions.

Chuck
 
ScottB
Posts: 7108
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 88):
What in the hell is the ACAA thinking charging those kinds of fees to the airlines. It's an airport, not the Taj Majal in that regard.

As far as I know, the number quoted for PHL is well below what the real cost is. PHL ran with revenue in the neighborhood of $284 million in 2005 for 31.5 million passengers (or around 16 million enplanements). Granted, significant revenue comes from parking, concession rents, etc., but the cost per enplanement for the airlines is probably closer to $10, and the presence of WN stimulating passenger traffic has helped to bring down the average cost per enplanement.

The issue at PIT is that the airport's fixed costs (largely debt service) didn't decline when US Airways drastically cut back service, and with passenger numbers in 2005 at roughly 50% of their peak in the late 1990's, there were fewer people over whom to spread those costs. Moreover, US Airways leased the vast majority of the gates at the airport; with fewer passengers through the hub, the cost of the leases per passenger skyrocketed.

Consider it this way. Southwest is leasing two gates at PIT while US Airways is leasing around 35 gates. Southwest had 102,000 passengers at PIT in May while US Airways had 472,000. That means that WN served 51,000 passengers per gate, while US served 13,500 -- and assuming the same lease rates, US is paying nearly 4 times as much per passenger in gate rentals as WN.
 
SHUPirate1
Posts: 3428
Joined: Sat Sep 20, 2003 2:53 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting A330323X (Reply 92):
US uses a number of gates on A-East every single day.

Well, sure looks like I stand corrected...as of this second, US Airways flights to Charlotte, Frankfurt, Glasgow, and Munich are all showing as leaving from A-East tonight.

Quoting Malexander131 (Reply 93):
And also, what is the policy on using A-West for domestic flights?

That plane from Las Vegas could very well be turning to go to Shannon, and likewise, that plane to San Diego could very well be coming from Aruba.
Burma's constitutional referendum options: A. Yes, B. Go to Insein Prison!
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 96):
Consider it this way. Southwest is leasing two gates at PIT while US Airways is leasing around 35 gates. Southwest had 102,000 passengers at PIT in May while US Airways had 472,000. That means that WN served 51,000 passengers per gate, while US served 13,500 -- and assuming the same lease rates, US is paying nearly 4 times as much per passenger in gate rentals as WN.

I know you are going with the two gates that WN lists on their website, A1 and A3, but what happens when they park RONs at A5 and A7? They must pay something! I think when the gate leases are up again, we will see WN adding A5 to the list for Pittsburgh. I am assuming we will see at least 5 more flights coming soon.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
steeler83
Posts: 7700
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:06 pm

RE: PHL- US Airways' Embarassment

Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:19 am

Quoting CentPIT (Reply 98):
They must pay something! I think when the gate leases are up again, we will see WN adding A5 to the list for Pittsburgh. I am assuming we will see at least 5 more flights coming soon.

I would imagine so as well... BWI should be added shortly, as well as LAX or OAK for west coast. Isn't LAX high on the list for pax traveling from PIT? I know that BWI is up there, and I think, although I am not sure, but what about MHT or PVD? I see BWI with 3 flights to start, LAX and OAK with one each, and maybe a couple to MHT and/or PVD... That is 8 additional dailies if those markets are added, although they'd select a couple at a time  Smile
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.

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