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leelaw
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Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:47 pm

Airbus: Losing altitude

Delays, redesigns, and a management shakeup have sent the company into a tailspin. Can it pull out of trouble?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...82596/index.htm?source=yahoo_quote

Despite the generally favorable press coverage coming out of Farnborough, particularly after the SQ A350X/A380 order last Friday, it's interesting that Fortune Magazine wants to rain on Airbus/EADS' parade.

Most interesting quote:

"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

I don't recall having seen the Airbus ethos described quite that way before.
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olympicbis
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 8:53 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another,"

Whoever wrote that is deeply mistaken !Good for him that he chose to remain anonymous, it will at least prevent him from becoming ridiculous !
 
CV990
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:04 pm

Hi!

After reeding what Olympicbis said I'm not even going to bother to see it!!!Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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kc135topboom
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:05 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Airbus: Losing altitude

Delays, redesigns, and a management shakeup have sent the company into a tailspin. Can it pull out of trouble?

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...quote

I have no doubt that Airbus will fully recover from the current problems. You may remember that it was just a few years ago that Boeing suffered from bad management and scandels. They seem to have fully recovered from their problems, as Airbus will.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:32 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

I don't recall having seen the Airbus ethos described quite that way before.

So pathetically ridiculous...

Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
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PM
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:37 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

What utter rubbish. A cheap and nasty soundbite from somebody with a rather odd and very sad mindset. Shame on Fortune for even publishing it.
 
pavlin
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 9:39 pm

Airbus lost some ground on A340. If the A380 will be such a failure as media claims (one of the greatest sins of humanity is to design A380), the future will. The A380 is the plane that makes me admire Airbus (and also A330)
 
Mason747
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:51 pm

Airbus is going to take forever to recover from their current problems. That order that gave them a boost at farnbourough only consists of A320's, a few A350XWB, and a few A330. The only plane that they manufacture that is an outstanding success is the A320.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 10:58 pm

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
The only plane that they manufacture that is an outstanding success is the A320.

I think we can say the A330 is great success and it continues to sell well.
 
Scorpio
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:01 pm

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
That order that gave them a boost at farnbourough only consists of A320's, a few A350XWB, and a few A330.

A "few" A350 XWB? 20 from one of the most respected airlines in the industry, only days after the unveiling is a far cry from the rather meaningless thing you're trying to pass it off as.

Oh, and a 'few' A330s? 40 is a few? That's not including the 30 for which the announcement was withdramn at the last minute. Include those and that's a full year of A330 production sold in just a week.

Not to mention you forgot to mention they sold 9 A380s as well.
 
swissy
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

Ei, ei, ei, I wonder how low people can go......  thumbsdown   thumbsdown 

Above statement could be also applied to the 787 between the USA & Japan remember WWII....................

If the management changes made by AB are positive (which they are as of today) no one will worry at all, this happen all the time all over the world......

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
Airbus is going to take forever to recover from their current problems.

Lets wait and see.........

Cheers,
 
pmg1704
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:05 pm

I don't think you chose the most interesting quote, only the most inflammatory.

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
it's interesting that Fortune Magazine wants to rain on Airbus/EADS' parade.

Maybe you missed ""We are learning to be humble and change our bad habits," said Christian Streiff, Airbus's new chief. "Airbus is in the middle of a serious crisis with our customers.""

"In response, Airbus unveiled the new A350 XWB at Farnborough, an engineering wonder "

"What's remarkable is how successful Airbus had been in spite of its byzantine org chart. In 1995 it had just 19% of the market for big passenger jets, compared with 81% for Boeing."

The article hardly "rain's on the parade". I thought it was very straight actually. Besides that silly 4 country quote, it's not anti-Airbus to say they've had problems lately both on the management and product fronts. It said they had a good show @ Farnborough, but they're not out of the woods yet. Miles to go before they sleep so to speak.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:09 pm

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 11):
The article hardly "rain's on the parade". I thought it was very straight actually. Besides that silly 4 country quote, it's not anti-Airbus to say they've had problems lately both on the management and product fronts. It said they had a good show @ Farnborough, but they're not out of the woods yet. Miles to go before they sleep so to speak.

I'd agree on that, but someone who airs that utter crap '4 country quote' cannot expect to be taken seriously.
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
baroque
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:28 pm

Quoting Olympicbis (Reply 1):
Whoever wrote that is deeply mistaken !Good for him that he chose to remain anonymous, it will at least prevent him from becoming ridiculous !

Indeed, it is absolute twaddle. I work with colleagues from Spain, France Holland and Germany (and a few other EU countries) and it is extremely obvious that there is a strong unity right across the EU. They run collaborative projects extremely successfully. A casual glance at the scientific literature will also show the results.

Individuals and institutions collaborate in a way that, for example, does not commonly occur with US states in my field. In the US, it is Fed or state and not much in between.

London analyst indeed!! I don't wonder he wanted to remain anonymous. Mind you knowing the British sense of humour, he has probably laughed himself to death by now that someone believed him.
 
chiad
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:35 am

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
Airbus is going to take forever to recover from their current problems. That order that gave them a boost at farnbourough only consists of A320's, a few A350XWB, and a few A330. The only plane that they manufacture that is an outstanding success is the A320.

Mason747 ..... my crystal bowl says that in one year I will pass you the salt when you eat you words.
 Smile
 
Jahmike
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:56 am

Let's face it, Airbus will be around for a long time. I am a Boeing guy but the demise of Airbus has been greatly exaggerated. These guys go through bad times, Boeing did it.
The A380 might not have been the greatest thing since sliced bread, but they will turn it around.
These guys that are writing these things for the magazines, I am willing to bet you were saying the same thing about Boeing when they were going through their problems.
When the 787 hits a delay they are going to jump all over that too.
 
787engineer
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting Swissy (Reply 10):
Above statement could be also applied to the 787 between the USA & Japan remember WWII....................

I agree with most of what has been said in this thread, but please Swissy, you need to really get caught up on current affairs if you think there's a lot of ill-will between USA & Japan today.
 
slz396
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:14 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 16):
Swissy, you need to really get caught up on current affairs if you think there's a lot of ill-will between USA & Japan today.

You are missing the entire point he tried to make!

Just like there are no problems in US-Japanese relations, quite on the contrary even, there are no problems whatsoever between the nations which support Airbus, despite the anonymous author of the quote going as far as saying the 4 nations HATED each other!
 
Areopagus
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:43 am

The press is a herd of independent minds, and what they write often lags reality.
 
787engineer
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 1:47 am

Quoting Slz396 (Reply 17):

You are missing the entire point he tried to make!

Just like there are no problems in US-Japanese relations, quite on the contrary even, there are no problems whatsoever between the nations which support Airbus, despite the anonymous author of the quote going as far as saying the 4 nations HATED each other!

Sorry I missed the point when I read it the first time. . . in this case I agree completely! There may be some jawing between the groups from different countries, but in the end we're all in the same basket going after the same goals.  Smile
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:04 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

What a utterly stupid crap. I wonder what kind of analyst he excactly could be if this quotation wasn`t purely fictional. This sentence tells much about the quality of this article.

Axel
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RAPCON
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

 rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 

Man, that statement just made my day!! Totally made my day!!!

Interestingly, only the Europeans will disagree with that statement, even though it came out of London!! For the Americans and the rest of the World it just screams: TRUE!!!

Seriously though, it is refreshing to hear the EADS leadership use statements such as "We are learning to be humble and change our bad habits." So true. It took an ass-whooping from Boeing to bring EADS back to Earth--just like a couple of years ago EADS smacked Boeing back to reality. Now if they ever stopped that stupid two-headed chairmanship, and got their loans from the markets like the rest of us, then this company will have nothing to fear from anyone.

FREE AIRBUS FROM THE EVIL EU POWERS!!
MODS CAN'T STOP ME....THEY CAN ONLY HOPE TO CONTAIN ME!!!
 
oldeuropean
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:20 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 21):
Interestingly, only the Europeans will disagree with that statement, even though it came out of London!! For the Americans and the rest of the World it just screams: TRUE!!!

It`s more your wishful thinking.

I would say that you never have been in Europe. Your comment is childish as the original article is stupid.  rotfl 

Axel

[Edited 2006-07-25 19:28:52]
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justloveplanes
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:34 am

Well, after reading all the posts on Anet regarding Forbes, Fortune and Businessweek, I think it's obvious these mags have only superficial knowledge of the Aviation Industry and anything they say has to be taken with a fairly large grain of salt. The recent Businessweek brohaha on the B787 fuselage tests is a case in point. Sharks circling for blood without the knowledge to know there wasn't really any there. Same here, just normal competitive stuff (okay, more than the normal competition) based on a casual offhand characterization that people do to make a general point. Painting an entire tapestry on a barroom characterization (after a couple of Guinesses no doubt) shows the limits of the understanding of the writer. These guys can analyze finances with the best of them I'm sure (look at Fortunes excellent articles on Enron), but they have to grasp at straws on the complex, detailed and long lead time engineering issues of aviation. Another case in point was the Forbes comment recently when the author laughed at Airbus' fuselage increase of 4 inches at seat level vs the B787 as no big deal. Well, it is a VERY big deal - it makes the plane competitive and in some deals will be a deciding factor.
 
billreid
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:36 am

I have lived in Europe the majority of my life and believe in both Airbus and Boeing. I also recall what happened with Fokker and DASA?
So lets talk seriously about cooperation within the EU rather than pull blinders over our eyes.

I think the article is right on the money with its comments.
Yes, that's why the UK hasn't even signed on for the EURO.
Spain voted YES for the constitution and France voted NO.
Germany and France, of course never agree on anything they do together. They can't even agree on the time of day.
And no single nation agrees with the policies being set forth in Brussel from DG-7.

So who sees Eye to Eye within the EU?

As for the A350XWB this is nothing more than a marketing ploy.
The A380 is a disaster based on delays and specifications. If it doesn't get on track quickly it will go the way of the MD-11 and end up being a cargo bird only and Airbus will have killed its credibility and the A350XWB program.

So friends lets stop rooting for one company against the other and instead use pure facts and industry economics. The A350XWB is a SINGLE sheet of paper with nil behind it and alot of proving in front.
The A380 is a marvel of engineering but this may still end up being a disaster in terms of business. Do we have a new Concorde from a business perspective a wonderful engineering feat, that doesn't fit into the free market without subsidies?

Wait and see the jury is still deliberating.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
deltadc9
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
I don't recall having seen the Airbus ethos described quite that way before.

I have seen that impression many times.

Quoting KC135TopBoom (Reply 3):
I have no doubt that Airbus will fully recover from the current problems. You may remember that it was just a few years ago that Boeing suffered from bad management and scandels. They seem to have fully recovered from their problems, as Airbus will.

People have said that about dozens of aircraft manufacturers that hit the rocks. Some recover, some flounder until a big change happens. Sometimes these problems simply lead to mergers and acquisitions that change the company into something different.

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 8):
Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
The only plane that they manufacture that is an outstanding success is the A320.

I think we can say the A330 is great success and it continues to sell well.

Roughly 600 planes is definitely a success, but the words in front of success are debatable and probably pointless.

Quoting Ptrjong (Reply 12):
but someone who airs that utter crap '4 country quote' cannot expect to be taken seriously.

I think brushing it off is probably not justified. What he says was true in the past, and to think it is all perfect harmony now is not true either. He just goes way too far.

I think the relations between the EU members is probably similar to the relationships between the states here in the US. Most of the time the states get along just fine, but sometimes there are feuds that get quite ugly.

For example, the border between Kentucky and Indiana has been an open wound for 150 years. Even though it was "settled" in federal court a decade or so ago, Hoosiers do not like Kentucky's claim on land north of the Ohio River.

Animosity also exists over Indiana's floating Casinos, which impact Kentucky's horse racing revenue, and they threaten to seize casinos that cross over the imaginary line in the water. Kentucky is now trying to pass casino gambling to hurt Indiana's casino business.

Throw in the UK-IU basketball rivalry, and the prevailing dislike of each other due to cultural differences, and you do not have a great relationship at the people level and the government level. It is hard to believe that EU countries do not have at least this level of crap going on. We are all human you know.

To think that countries in Europe have perfect relationships is silly, and the author should have examined the real points of contention and not implied nothing has changed since 1945 with a sweeping inflammatory quote from a mystery expert.

Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Individuals and institutions collaborate in a way that, for example, does not commonly occur with US states in my field. In the US, it is Fed or state and not much in between.

That is just so off base I don't know what to say. Maybe for your field, whatever that is, but not in general, not even close.
Dont take life too seriously because you will never get out of it alive - Bugs Bunny
 
leelaw
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 2:43 am

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 11):
I don't think you chose the most interesting quote, only the most inflammatory.

I've seen all the other "positive stuff" in several other articles posted by myself and other members in various threads. One article in particular which was fairly comprehensive that I posted for the forum's consideration, hasn't as yet drawn a single reply: AWST: New Management Eyes Big Changes At Airbus (by Leelaw Jul 24 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting Pmg1704 (Reply 11):
The article hardly "rain's on the parade". I thought it was very straight actually. Besides that silly 4 country quote, it's not anti-Airbus to say they've had problems lately both on the management and product fronts. It said they had a good show @ Farnborough, but they're not out of the woods yet. Miles to go before they sleep so to speak.

I' not so sure, certainly the headline and the last paragraph of Mr. Schwartz's article don't seem to paint an altogether sanguine picture:

"It will be a golden plane," promises Airbus's top sales executive, John Leahy. If it ever gets off the ground, the A350 XWB probably will be a marvel of design, like the A380. Whether it actually makes any gold for EADS is another story.

[Edited 2006-07-25 19:49:57]

[Edited 2006-07-25 19:52:47]
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swissy
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 3:57 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 19):
Sorry I missed the point when I read it the first time. . . in this case I agree completely! There may be some jawing between the groups from different countries, but in the end we're all in the same basket going after the same goals

Exactly and that is why the majority of us sleep at night.  Wink  Wink  Wink

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
I think the article is right on the money with its comments.
Yes, that's why the UK hasn't even signed on for the EURO.
Spain voted YES for the constitution and France voted NO.
Germany and France, of course never agree on anything they do together. They can't even agree on the time of day.
And no single nation agrees with the policies being set forth in Brussel from DG-7.

And what got that to do with airbus????? and its employees???


Cheers,
 
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mariner
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
I don't recall having seen the Airbus ethos described quite that way before.

It's an extension of Udvar-Hazy, isn't it? Or a steal from him:

http://atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=5754

"When things are going right they are European but when they are going wrong they are French, German or British. They need to become more European," he said.

Although the comment about becoming "more European" is amusing, coming from a European who ditched Europe for sunny California.

 Smile

mariner
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mariner
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
So who sees Eye to Eye within the EU?

But surely that is the wonder of Airbus?

Everything that is said about these old enemies is true, so it should surprise no one that sometimes they get it wrong.

What is amazing is how many times such a goulash of nationalities - with no common native language or, until recently, common industrial laws - have got things right.

Those of us who yearn for a peaceful world in the future take comfort in what these old enemies have achieved, not what they have destroyed.

mariner
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PlaneHunter
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:08 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):

"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

What a ridiculous nonsense...the guy didn't just disqualify himself, but also the magazine which employs him.

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
Airbus is going to take forever to recover from their current problems.

 Yeah sure

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
That order that gave them a boost at farnbourough only consists of A320's, a few A350XWB, and a few A330.

It's not just the numbers which count, it's also the customer.

Quoting Mason747 (Reply 7):
The only plane that they manufacture that is an outstanding success is the A320.

No. Check the facts.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
Germany and France, of course never agree on anything they do together.

Plain wrong.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
As for the A350XWB this is nothing more than a marketing ploy.

And SIA is starring in that ploy?  Yeah sure

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
The A380 is a disaster based on delays and specifications.

The delays haven't stopped one of the world's most prestigious and most successful airline to order more and no customers has canceled yet. Can't be such a disaster.

And which specifications are you talking about? Do you have data which we don't have?

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
The A350XWB is a SINGLE sheet of paper with nil behind it and alot of proving in front.

SIA is not an airline which plans with trivial sheets of paper.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 24):
Do we have a new Concorde from a business perspective a wonderful engineering feat, that doesn't fit into the free market without subsidies?

I'd better wait some more years for a correct analysis.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
AtlBill
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:13 am

Well, I am not surprised by the Fortune magazine article. Considering the source (Time Warner), they concerned more with entertainment than presenting an accurate picture of the truth. If it were Boeing, I am sure Fortune would have trashed them too.

However, just because Airbus has had a good week does not mean they are out of the woods. Whatever credibility they won last week will be lost if they back off of their A350XWB goals or if there are any other serious challenges (schedule or technical) with the A380. Any significant mis-steps and the criticism from the world press will make the Fortune article look like a puff piece.
 
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:16 am

Quoting RAPCON (Reply 21):
Interestingly, only the Europeans will disagree with that statement, even though it came out of London!! For the Americans and the rest of the World it just screams: TRUE!!!

In the many years I have browsed and been a member of these boards, I have come across some very bizarre statements however, this goes down as the absolute stupidest comment I have ever read on these boards. You clearly haven't the slightest inkling of even the most basic elements of modern European History. And for the record, I live in the US and believe that the quote by the "anonymous" analyst is a load of crap.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
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Revelation
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:25 am

As an engineer, I feel these are the most interesting quotes from the article:

Quote:
But a few minutes later the director of the A380 program, Charles Champion, brought everyone back to earth when he admitted, "We have many legacy systems that do not talk to each other."

Wow - that's my first Charles Champion sighting since the six month slip debacle. I wonder which systems they were talking about? Perhaps Boeing is more up to date in its CATIA setup than is Airbus?

Quote:
The A380's electrical system is complicated even by jumbo-jet standards, and it didn't help that the work was split between centers in France's Toulouse and Germany's Hamburg. Airbus exec Tom Williams says engineers sometimes didn't know what modifications their colleagues in the other city had made until days afterward.

More evidence of the above. Been there, done that, it sucks!
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Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
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solnabo
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:42 am

While weré in this tiresome topic:

Everyone here in €urope hate each others guts, I thought you yanks already knew that....the papers does, so you got to belive them, right?

Wonder what Boeing said when JSF deal went to Lockheed-Martin? Horray??

"This land is youre land, this land is my land"


Micke/SWE  

[Edited 2006-07-25 22:49:54]
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brettdespain
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:48 am

Airbus makes a good product. I prefer Boeings...but what is more to the point is whose business strategy will ultimately be more successful: Airbus's "bigger is better" plan, or Boeings "smaller and more effecient" plan.

Only time will tell. One thing is for sure though. The competition between these two means that we are getting some seriously wonderful airplanes.

Brett
V1...Rotate.
 
leelaw
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Wow - that's my first Charles Champion sighting since the six month slip debacle. I wonder which systems they were talking about? Perhaps Boeing is more up to date in its CATIA setup than is Airbus?

Actually Mr. Champion was present on the dais at the press conference last Monday at Farnborough introducing Mr. Streiff and "unveiling" the A350XWB, but was totally upstaged by Mr. Williams.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
starrion
Posts: 1024
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 7:15 am

One helpful bit of information here:

Magazine articles are prepared in advance. I don't see anything about the order from SQ. For a Boeing fan and investor, I have to concede that the order for the A350/A380 is a vote of confidence in Airbus by a genuine blue-chip airline.

The writer of this article was responding to the decision to re-do the A350 and the turmoil from after the management shake up.

It's Old News.
Knowledge Replaces Fear
 
comet4b
Posts: 59
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:23 am

Hi Leelaw boy you sure know how to stir up the euros!!!! Can anyone order a copy of the big wooden sppon you use and is it available on e bay
 
cumulonimbus
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:28 am

Wow no shortage of the bash Airbus threads on A.net anymore huh?

Mike
 
ebj1248650
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
"This is a plane [A380] that's made by four countries that hate one another," says one London analyst who spoke on condition of anonymity. "It only succeeds because the greater enemy is America."

I suspect if the truth came out, both Boeing and Airbus, though tough rivals, have an immense respect for one another.
Dare to dream; dream big!
 
7cubed
Posts: 121
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:16 am

Wow, does everyone really buy into the media's sensationalist crap shoveling? Let's be realistic, they're trying to sell newspapers, magazines... They'll print anything to do so. As mentioned earlier - Boeing or Airbus, they'll all get pounced on at the slightest misstep. Right now it's Airbus, in a few months it will be Boeing again and then we'll start over. Why do you think these articles are printed? To gain attention and, guess what? Sell more mags or papers.

I must be somewhat "old school". I don't believe much without cold, hard facts. Will the 787 be a flop? will the a380 or a350 be a flop? At this point who knows. It looks like they'll all have their places in aviation history. Personally, I'm waiting to hear what the end users have to say about each. We can all sit here and bash when really no one know what the future holds. My guess - they sell quite a few of each.

An interesting side note: Honda announces they're entering the small jet market.

Here's a link:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/compan...t/2006-07-25-hondajet_x.htm?csp=34

Since Honda is relatively new to this game, perhaps we can leave the A vs B flame wars rest and set our sights on a new "enemy". Big grin

Quoting Mariner (Reply 28):
Although the comment about becoming "more European" is amusing, coming from a European who ditched Europe for sunny California.

Can't blame him for that!!!!
joe
 
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mariner
Posts: 19473
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting 7cubed (Reply 42):
Can't blame him for that!!!!

No, indeed, I swapped Europe for Down Under (and a stint in California).

But I don't turn around and sneer at "Old Europe". Or even New Europe.

 Smile

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting DeltaDC9 (Reply 25):
Quoting Baroque (Reply 13):
Individuals and institutions collaborate in a way that, for example, does not commonly occur with US states in my field. In the US, it is Fed or state and not much in between.

That is just so off base I don't know what to say. Maybe for your field, whatever that is, but not in general, not even close.

I can only write as I observe. If I am wrong, so be it, if not on balance, well you need a rethink. I see more structures designed to result in cooperation within the EU than I see elsewhere. You could argue that they need them, due to tendencies towards spontaneous fission, but I suspect you would be wrong in that.
 
antiuser
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RE: Fortune Magazine: Airbus Losing Altitude

Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:14 pm

Quoting Pavlin (Reply 6):
If the A380 will be such a failure as media claims (one of the greatest sins of humanity is to design A380), the future will.

If the A380 is such a failure, an airline like Singapore, known for not being very fond of taking big chances, wouldn't have ordered 9 more even before EIS. Wait for the real numbers, once Singapore begins operating it, to talk about failures. It's much too early in the game for that.
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