Regional Jets On Longer Range Flights?

cessna157 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:38 am

Is it just me, or are carriers stretching the range of their regional jets more now than ever.

For example:
Beginning this September, Delta has Comair flying CVG-CUN non-stop on Saturdays (straight line distance 1246nm). Delta pulled service to CUN from CVG after last year's hurricanes tore up the area, and will re-initiate service with a once weekly round-trip flight on a CRJ-700. The flight will only be booked to 61 due to the fact the plane will be a flying gas-can.

Just today, Comair completed their proving flight with flight # 9754 CVG-CUN-CVG. The fuel burn alone was over 10000lbs of fuel (CRJ700s only hold about 19600). The flight takes you down the Florida coast, over Cuba, then across the pond to the Yucatan Peninsula. (Comair is limited to no more than 50 miles off shore)

As a side note, Comair routinely flies CVG-NAS, JFK-NAS, and LGA-NAS on their CRJ-200s and -700s.

My question is:
Does anyone know of a CRJ or ERJ that is scheduled for longer service?

APFPilot1985 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:49 am

EV flies an RJ SLC-MCO 1931nm

and to pse which is over 1500

jetdeltamsy · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:52 am

American Eagle flies ORD-NAS; about 200 miles further than NYC & CVG-NAS.

And YES, that is a LONG time in a skinny RJ.

roseflyer · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:58 am

Continental serves some very long routes with ERJs. They operate some redeye flights from the west coast to IAH with them. That would be horrible in my opinion. The ERJ145XRs have incredible range and performance and can fly for over 4 hours, but that is a long time in such a small plane with limited service on board.

san747 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:54 pm

ONT-IAH on CO, one flight as mentioned above is an ERJ-145XR... I wouldn't fly it...

DesertAir · Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:21 pm

The longest flights I have taken on an RJ was from Phoenix to Portland, OR.

Motorhussy · Wed Jul 26, 2006 9:53 pm

Well that would be the point of point-to-point versus hub-and-spoke I guess.

But seriously, in answer to your question, have a look at the Embraer 190:

http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...ntent/ejets/emb_190.asp?tela=range

Regards
MH

LawnDart · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:03 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 1):
EV flies an RJ SLC-MCO 1931nm

Not to be argumentative, but I don't see on delta.com where anyone (EV or OO) flies an RJ between SLC and MCO - they appear to be 757s.

Not that I doubt someone will put an RJ into transatlantic service eventually, but with SLC altitude and temp I would think that particular 1931nm route would be severely weight-limited.

Boeing7E7 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:24 pm

The RJ use instanity continues. God help us.

stormbringer · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:37 pm

Flew LAX to YVR in a CRJ700 once. Cramped, and with AC's expensive beer and no food making me wonder why they bothered having discount divisions as the mainline at that time was acting pretty no-frills.

tinpusher007 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:37 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 1):
EV flies an RJ SLC-MCO 1931nm

Don't know where you got that from. DL, not EV flies twice daily between MCO and SLC with 757's. Im not sure an RJ could even make that flight, especially westbound.

cessna157 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 6):
But seriously, in answer to your question, have a look at the Embraer 190

True...but I would hardly consider a E-190, or even E-170, to be a regional jet. It's a jet that just happens to have been made by a company who's recent roots have been successful in the RJ industry.

The longest CRJ flight I witnessed was a ferry flight from SMO-CVG. They took off, climbed as hard as they could, leveled off and pull the thrust levers back to idle to coast all the way home, and 1647nm, and a short 4.5 hours of being cramped up in a CRJ200, they landed on rwy 9 at CVG (those who know CVG, rwy 9 is rarely used during daylight hours due to the massive number of departures off 27). Fuel burn was approx 11000lbs (the CRJ-200 only holds about 14000).

tinpusher007 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:51 pm

Quoting Cessna157 (Reply 11):
They took off, climbed as hard as they could, leveled off and pull the thrust levers back to idle to coast all the way home,

I assume you are being sarcastic?

cessna157 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting TinPusher007 (Reply 12):
I assume you are being sarcastic?

Well, the idle comment, obviously. But yes, they did pull the power back to a very slow cruise to save as much fuel as they could.

nateDAL · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:05 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 8):
The RJ use instanity continues. God help us.

RJs are constantly bashed here. I don't understand why. The pitch and seat width are the same as a 737. Give me the 'A' side of an ERJ any day over having to sit next to some random stranger.

The fact is that RJs make it possible to fly more direct routes, saving time and money.

cessna157 · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 14):
RJs are constantly bashed here. I don't understand why.

I don't think we're bashing RJs. I work for an airline that has over 170 of them, and I love flying on them. But if I had the choice of flying 3.5 hours nonstop on an RJ, or flying on a 737 then 767 after a short connection, I'd choose the latter. Of course, the RJ has flights that only it can make. Many regional airlines have flights where the taxi time is less than the flight time. But some airlines are just pushing the poor little airframes too far.

roseflyer · Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:50 pm

Quoting Cessna157 (Reply 11):
True...but I would hardly consider a E-190, or even E-170, to be a regional jet. It's a jet that just happens to have been made by a company who's recent roots have been successful in the RJ industry.

The problem with all of these RJs on longer flights is that the service on board is less. RJs almost never have food service. They almost never have IFE. RJs often don't have first class. RJs sometimes don't even have a full beverage service. Some RJs don't even have a lavatory with running water. I wouldn't want to be on one of these planes for over 3 hours, even if it was the more spacious E170. I've flown an E170 between IND and DEN and also a A319. Both were in first class. I got a prepackaged snack box of non perishable food on the RJ. On the A319 I got a full dinner service and got to watch a movie. I'll take a mainline jet anyday. I struggle to justify paying for the upgrade on an E170 even though they are pretty nice planes.

avconsultant · Thu Jul 27, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting NateDAL (Reply 14):
The pitch and seat width are the same as a 737.

Yes, but the curvature of the fuselage combined with the overhead bin and misdesign of the window belt makes the CRJ miserabe. At least the ERJ has properly aligned & larger windows. Either one is still uncomfortable beyond 2 hrs. If the carriers could offer an enhanced service (snack box or something) for flight greater than 2 hrs could atleast improve the service.

Quoting Cessna157 (Reply 15):
But some airlines are just pushing the poor little airframes too far.

Indeed.

B6JFKH81 · Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:56 am

Quoting MotorHussy (Reply 6):
But seriously, in answer to your question, have a look at the Embraer 190:

The E190 really doens't classify as an RJ as it has 100 seats (in all economy configuration) and a much more spacious cabin compared to a traditional RJ. It does blow my mind that it can go 2300nm though.

Motorhussy · Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:17 am

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 18):
The E190 really doens't classify as an RJ as it has 100 seats (in all economy configuration) and a much more spacious cabin compared to a traditional RJ. It does blow my mind that it can go 2300nm though.

Well okay then, look at the E170/175, the smaller sibling and base model for the extended E190/195 then if you're to be so pedantic as to what qualifies as an RJ!

http://www.embraercommercialjets.com...ntent/ejets/emb_170.asp?tela=range

MH

[Edited 2006-07-29 02:19:46]

COERJ145 · Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting San747 (Reply 4):
ONT-IAH on CO, one flight as mentioned above is an ERJ-145XR... I wouldn't fly it...

I've done PSP-IAH on the ERJ-145XR, not that bad in my opinion. Better service than mainline. It would be nice if they(CO) had an ExPlus like product w/E70s. I'd rather take that route over AA's PSP-DFW w/MD-80s. I think CO even has an IAH-BOI and IAH-BFL flights as well. For AA, they use a CR7 on DFW-Santa Barbara.

ejmmsu · Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:36 am

NW flies MEM-BOS, AUS-DTW both flights i'm sure are never allowed to hold all 50 passengers.

modesto2 · Sat Jul 29, 2006 9:43 am

Some of CO Express' longer flights are IAH-PSP/ONT/BFL/BOI/YYZ. They're usually over 3 hours, but when everyone's sleeping, who cares about the aircraft type!

connies4ever · Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:45 am

AC is now flying CRJ705s YYC-IAH 3x daily. Don't know the mileage but I'd guess in the 1600 miles range. Also YEG-LAX. Soon to launch YYZ-SLC, which is even .longer.

I've ridden in the 705 once, and I must say it's a big difference (better) from
the 100/200 series. Not that that wouldn't be hard. Actually, I was pretty comfy, even at 6 ft. {not altitude :^) }

usair320 · Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:52 am

Previously CO expressjet used an ERJ-145 CLE-ABQ which is a good 3hr's 45 minuits westbound.

flymia · Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:57 am

the only regional jet flight I have flown is IAD-MIA with American Eagle. And I can tell you that I would not mind a 5 hour flight on the ERJ as long as I have the left row, which is the one with only one seat and no one next to you, great flight I rather fly MIA-LAX in a ERJ than 757. (of course a ERJ cant do that flight) But Eagles ATRs I dont even like flying MIA-NAS in them.

teneriffe77 · Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:51 pm

IN syr the one of the longest flights SYR-DFW, is flown by an AA CRJ-700

usair320 · Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:25 am

and also to add Befor UA explus took over the ORD-ABQ route it was operated with regular CRJ's at 3HR 15 min ina a CRJ sounds bad. Although now it is an EMB 170

drewwright · Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:42 am

Here some long RJ flights for ya.

IAH-BFL 1,428 ERJ
IAH-BOI 1,482 ERJ
ATL-STX 1,638 E70

Drw

Web · Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:00 am

American Eagle flies LGA-XNA with an ERJ-135! Over 3 hours on a 37-seater; quite a trip. I have flown CLE-DEN and back on a COex -145XR, and it wasn't too bad at all, especially with snack tray (and beverage service) that seems to be absent from other airlines' domestic flights.

What surprises me is that airlines can sustain such long RJ flights when they have to limit the pax load. Aren't RJs' CASM high enough already without having to limit revenue potential?

PPVRA · Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:08 am

Quoting Web (Reply 29):

What surprises me is that airlines can sustain such long RJ flights when they have to limit the pax load. Aren't RJs' CASM high enough already without having to limit revenue potential?

You're missing one factor: how much did you pay for that ticket?

Cheers

coerj · Sun Jul 30, 2006 5:11 am

While many people oppose the use of RJs on long flights we must realize that certain routes would not exist with out them. If Delta were to put a 737 on the CVG-CUN route it may not prove to be successful therefore the only viable aircraft is the CRJ7. While they are not as comfortable as mainline aircraft they allow thinner routes to prosper, while traveling at the same speed and delivering the same performance as larger aircraft.

mtnwest1979 · Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:11 am

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 20):
I think CO even has an IAH-BOI ]

[quote=Drewwright,reply=28]IAH-BOI 1,482 ERJ

They are ending this route in early September. They seemed to be doing ok pax number wise. But maybe not pax spending wise. Third time CO has left BOI. First 1983 bk, then 1987 after buying Frontier's assets, and now this time.
And second time BOI-Texas RJ flights have failed. American Eagle tried BOI-DFW CR7 from June 2002 to Jan 2003.

cessna157 · Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:21 am

Quoting COERJ (Reply 31):
If Delta were to put a 737 on the CVG-CUN route it may not prove to be successful

Today Delta's flight 273 (B737-800) left with 140 pax on board, with only 10 Y seats left to spare. It returned as DL272 with 137 pax on board. I'd hardly say that the route isn't successful. Granted the September traffic will probably drop off, I guess we'll see how the CRJ is loaded pretty soon...

ERJ135 · Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:11 pm

It would be fair to say that generally most people view an RJ as uncomfortable because of the amount of room when standing or from a lack of service point of view. Well the service the airline provides is hardly the fault of the aircraft so if you really need a good feed and watering on a flight of 4 hours then bring it with you. On any RJ flight I have been on I have never seen anyone stand around bumping into the roof and sidewalls or overhead bins except for the brief period of actually getting on and off the plane. The seats themselves as anyone who has flown on an RJ would know, are the same as any other seat comfort wise. However I am an enthusiast and I will fly on anything and have a preferance for the smaller jets. I wish that the airlines in Australia could see their use here but alas we are still ordering Props!

fpofllflyboi · Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:15 pm

Quoting FlyMIA (Reply 25):
But Eagles ATRs I dont even like flying MIA-NAS in them.

I don't think anyone likes that flight. I sure don't.

newkai · Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting COERJ (Reply 31):
While many people oppose the use of RJs on long flights we must realize that certain routes would not exist with out them.

So well said.

flyingdoc · Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:11 am

I dislike flying on RJs for the following reasons:
--- although the pitch may be the same, but seats are shorter, less leg support, and less padding
--- more noise, some RJs are dramatically louder than the typical mainline aircraft
--- standing up and moving around, particularly on a long flight is problematic
--- often have to go onto the tarmac to board, no jetway
--- very limited carry on space in passenger cabin, requiring gate checking of most carry on bags

Personally, I refuse to fly them on flights over 1 hour. I will tolerate them for 1 hour, but I won't do the long flights. I'd rather connect at a hub on a mainline aircraft.

planespotting · Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:46 pm

Quoting Web (Reply 29):
American Eagle flies LGA-XNA with an ERJ-135! Over 3 hours on a 37-seater; quite a trip.

You can thank Wal-Mart for fayetteville getting a nonstop flight to LGA!

We're Nuts · Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting FlyingDoc (Reply 37):
I dislike flying on RJs for the following reasons:
--- often have to go onto the tarmac to board, no jetway

Are you sure you're on the right website?

CRJ900 · Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:32 am

Quoting FlyingDoc (Reply 37):
although the pitch may be the same, but seats are shorter, less leg support, and less padding

Blame the airlines for buying the cheapest seats on the market, not the aircraft itself.

Quoting FlyingDoc (Reply 37):
very limited carry on space in passenger cabin, requiring gate checking of most carry on bags

As long as the bag arrives when you do, isn't that the main thing? Or are you one of those who has to rummage for something in your rollerbag every five minutes during the flight? Wink

How many things does one need to have at hand at all times on a two-hour flight anyway?

Quoting ERJ135 (Reply 34):
Well the service the airline provides is hardly the fault of the aircraft so if you really need a good feed and watering on a flight of 4 hours then bring it with you.

Exactly, blame the airline, not the aircraft itself. LH and OS use CRJs with galleys that have ovens and extra space for food and beverage carts, LX also have this in their E145s as well... so the RJs can be quite versatile if given the chance.

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