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snnus
Topic Author
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 am

NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:16 am

Anymore news on when NW are starting here, what routes etc......
 
Eirules
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:58 am

This is just a rumour at the moment isn't it? There are no flights loaded on the system and there have been no announcements made (AFAIK). Would suspect it would be a 757 to DTW tho
 
Chugach
Posts: 1382
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:13 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NW's 752's have ETOPS.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:47 am

Quoting Chugach (Reply 2):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NW's 752's have ETOPS.

No they do not have ETOPS, but one would assume they would get ETOPS approval before they started the flights.
 
premobrimo
Posts: 285
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:36 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:58 am

Several 757's are currently being ETOPS certified and being retrofitted with winglets.

I have also heard several upper management people at MSP talk about the addition of flights to Dublin and Shannon.
 
Sam the Lab
Posts: 219
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:22 am

Beats me why Cork Airport has so far not been able to attract any traffic from the U.S. East Coast to Cork. The new €200 million terminal is opening up for business at Cork on 1st August and with such a fabulous new facility you would think that Cork could now vie with Dublin and Shannon for a slice of the North Atlantic action.
 
pilot21
Posts: 985
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:26 am

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 5):
Beats me why Cork Airport has so far not been able to attract any traffic from the U.S. East Coast to Cork. The new €200 million terminal is opening up for business at Cork on 1st August and with such a fabulous new facility you would think that Cork could now vie with Dublin and Shannon for a slice of the North Atlantic action.

While it maybe a small point for the airlines, but I would be very surprised if the INS would be willing to open a 3rd station in Ireland to handle pre-clearance of immigration in Cork, given they have staff in Shannon and Dublin. Anybody got any info. on the type of arrangement the Irish Govt/ Aer Rianta have that handles these preclearance facilities?
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:39 am

Its all still rumors......but this is what is being discussed:

1. Service would start for the Summer 2007 timetable.

2. Flights would operate with 757-200 equipment - no word on what type of J class cabin would be offered (ie, a real J class or domestic F for full fare/elite FFs.....the AA approach). No word on IFE......this is NW, its a big deal for them to turn on a video monitor.  Smile

3. DTW-DUB-SNN-DTW and/or DTW-BOS-DUB-SNN-BOS-DTW are the routes being discussed......BOS would be a surpirse (remember, these are rumors, who knows what is true or not).

4. Service to Manchester and Glasgow also being considered, probably from DTW, also with 752s.
 
bnamaxx
Posts: 231
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 5):
Beats me why Cork Airport has so far not been able to attract any traffic from the U.S. East Coast to Cork. The new €200 million terminal is opening up for business at Cork on 1st August and with such a fabulous new facility you would think that Cork could now vie with Dublin and Shannon for a slice of the North Atlantic action.

If anybody was going to do it, I'd think it would be CO.
 
cslusarc
Posts: 554
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 2:29 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:01 am

With winglets and without cargo, can one NW's 756s make it from DTW to the British Isles with full pax and baggage? I'm highly doubting it, as NW operates the least powered engines on most of their fleet.
 
EI321
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Sam the Lab (Reply 5):
Beats me why Cork Airport has so far not been able to attract any traffic from the U.S. East Coast to Cork. The new €200 million terminal is opening up for business at Cork on 1st August and with such a fabulous new facility you would think that Cork could now vie with Dublin and Shannon for a slice of the North Atlantic action.

Since any Cork service will still have th route through SNN, it does not make much sense in doing it. When the stopover is gone, Ithink CO are a possibility. Cork has a few problems - no CAT III, etc.
 
nwafflyer
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:09 am

last I heard, NWA was talking winglets - no range issue there at all
 
iowaman
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RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Nwafflyer (Reply 11):
last I heard, NWA was talking winglets - no range issue there at all

SNN-DTW may be a stretch with the headwinds. I would suspect in the winter time even with winglets there may be restrictions.
 
COERJ145
Posts: 1140
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2005 7:22 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
2. Flights would operate with 757-200 equipment - no word on what type of J class cabin would be offered (ie, a real J class or domestic F for full fare/elite FFs.....the AA approach). No word on IFE......this is NW, its a big deal for them to turn on a video monitor. Smile

I heard they were putting in the new A330/744 style J-class seats

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 3):
No they do not have ETOPS, but one would assume they would get ETOPS approval before they started the flights.

Doesn't NW operate a few 752s out of NRT that are ETOPS?
 
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centrair
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Joined: Thu Jan 13, 2005 3:44 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Premobrimo (Reply 4):
Several 757's are currently being ETOPS certified and being retrofitted with winglets.

I am pretty sure they have a few ETOPS certified 757s in the fleet. They fly them out of NRT and NGO. NGO-GUM/SPN is all over water. But I could be wrong.
 
JAFA
Posts: 740
Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 1:31 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Chugach (Reply 2):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that NW's 752's have ETOPS.

The 757-200's ship numbers 5600+ (the ones with the window exits) were delivered with partial ETOPS certification. Some of these fly out of NRT and are over water equipped. (Not sure about ETOPS) for the 757 anyway. As far as I know the only ETOPS aircraft are the A330's.

Management has spoken openly about the new routes but nothing has been finalized yet.
 
snnus
Topic Author
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:31 pm

Will the flts be wrapped DUB/SNN or stand alone?year round or seasonal???
 
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jetjack74
Posts: 6649
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2003 6:35 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:55 pm

Quoting Cslusarc (Reply 9):
With winglets and without cargo, can one NW's 756s make it from DTW to the British Isles with full pax and baggage? I'm highly doubting it, as NW operates the least powered engines on most of their fleet.

You would be wrong, the PW2037 have plenty of power , coupled with the blended winglets for Transatlantic ops.

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 13):
Doesn't NW operate a few 752s out of NRT that are ETOPS?

They're overwater equiped, not ETOPS. The certification is expected in December throught January for 10 aircraft initially, and the rest of the 5600's will be modified in the fall of 07

Quoting JAFA (Reply 15):
The 757-200's ship numbers 5600+ (the ones with the window exits) were delivered with partial ETOPS certification. Some of these fly out of NRT and are over water equipped. (Not sure about ETOPS) for the 757 anyway. As far as I know the only ETOPS aircraft are the A330's.

The 757-5800's are the only ETOPs certified 757's at the moment

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 7):
3. DTW-DUB-SNN-DTW and/or DTW-BOS-DUB-SNN-BOS-DTW are the routes being discussed......BOS would be a surpirse (remember, these are rumors, who knows what is true or not).

4. Service to Manchester and Glasgow also being considered, probably from DTW, also with 752s.

It's pretty much a definate at this point. We all know it's going to happen. It will be announced by the end of August according to the NWAAFA at the roadshows. The reason why it hasn't been announced yet, is becuase the none of the resructuring agreements have not gone into effect which most importantly includes, the pilots contract.
The first cities include:
DTW-BRU
DTW-MAN
DTW-SNN
DTW-DUB
DTW-AMS(AM flight)
EWR-AMS
BDL-AMS
There also talk of DXB and CAI from AMS which is rumour at this point. But the forementioned is scheduled to start in 3/07
 
KingAir200
Posts: 668
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 1:37 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
The reason why it hasn't been announced yet, is becuase the none of the resructuring agreements have not gone into effect which most importantly includes, the pilots contract.

It's not a surprise they'll wait for the new contract to go into effect. NWA got exactly what they wanted, now it's time to expand.
 
Jano
Posts: 760
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 1:48 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Mon Jul 31, 2006 11:35 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
DTW-AMS(AM flight)

If this is going to leave from DTW at about 7AM then it will arrive to AMS at about 9pm.

But when would it leave AMS then? 11pm departure would mean about 1:30AM arrival to DTW, 6AM AMS departure would mean about 8:30AM arrival to DTW.
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 12:42 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
the resructuring agreements have not gone into effect which most importantly includes, the pilots contract.
The first cities include:
DTW-BRU
DTW-MAN
DTW-SNN
DTW-DUB
DTW-AMS(AM flight)
EWR-AMS
BDL-AMS

The BDL-AMS is the most interesting of the bunch......I am curious to see if NW really does launch this route.

EWR-AMS.........is that a second flight, in addiiton to the KL flight, or replacing the KL flight? EWR-AMS is seeing a lot of capacity from the SkyTeam gang.

Is DTW-SNN/DUB going to be year round?

Quoting Jano (Reply 19):
But when would it leave AMS then? 11pm departure would mean about 1:30AM arrival to DTW, 6AM AMS departure would mean about 8:30AM arrival to DTW

My guess...the AMS-DTW 757 flight will leave early, to allow connections to the first bank of flights out of DTW, this could work very well.
 
Mikey711MN
Posts: 1256
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 4:19 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
The BDL-AMS is the most interesting of the bunch......I am curious to see if NW really does launch this route.

Me too! While CO and DL have shown intent on serving medium-sized markets in Europe from their American hubs, no one has done the converse: served medium-sized markets in America to hubs in Europe.

-Mike
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:36 am

I don't think their B757's could make the route fully loaded. I can see them making fuel stops on the way back to DTW becuase of the head winds. As for A330's I don't think their is enought traffic for this type of plane. The only thing i can see them using is a DC-10, but they are retiring these planes as fast as they can.

So NWA to Ireland? I would not know with what aircraft they would use.

Chuck
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:44 am

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 22):
I don't think their B757's could make the route fully loaded. I can see them making fuel stops on the way back to DTW becuase of the head winds. As for A330's I don't think their is enought traffic for this type of plane. The only thing i can see them using is a DC-10, but they are retiring these planes as fast as they can.

So NWA to Ireland? I would not know with what aircraft they would use.

Chuck

All of the mentioned routes - Detroit to Ireland, UK, Brussels (and the others) will be flown by NW with 757-200 airplanes.......there has been no specific annoucement yet, but many think that NW will follow CO and US and also use 757s across the Atlantic. There should be not be any range issues for the 757-200s with these "short" European routes.....depending on weather and other factors, NW may restrict payload on occassion (ie, leave all of the cargo behind) but in general, as far as the flying public is concerned, it should work out just fine. And if things dont go according to plan on any given day......there is always Gander.
 
DTWAGENT
Posts: 753
Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2006 1:16 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:46 am

Thanks Dutchjet... I did not know a B757 could make that route from DTW.

Chuck
 
snnus
Topic Author
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:17 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):

Sounds like good routes, look forward to the announcement. Would the Flights start in May or earlier in the season? Year round or seasonal???
 
ORDTerminal1
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 3:35 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:24 am

Remember everyone that CO does CLE-LGW seasonally. Detroit and Cleveland are somewhat parallel, with Detroit being north of Cleveland. If CO can do that route w/ 757s, NW should certainly be able to.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:25 am

I thought that NW 757-300 are ETOPS for the hawaii service I could be wrong but thought that it was required for that route. (not that they would use them to DUB)
 
dutchjet
Posts: 7714
Joined: Sat Oct 14, 2000 6:13 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:30 am

Quoting SNNUS (Reply 25):
Sounds like good routes

We shall see......it will be interesting to see if NW can make the Detroit routes work, Detroit is not a key transatlantic gateway and, until now, NW has had limited success with transatlantic service and only flies from Detroit to a handful of European cities. They do, however, route a good deal of traffic via AMS. Also note that NW is a bit late to this party....in recent years, CO, DL, AA and US have added flights to many of the same destinations from their hubs, so there is a lot of competiton. Being last is not a good thing....the other carriers have established themselves in the market.....success depends on how well NW markets the new routes.

Quoting SNNUS (Reply 25):
Would the Flights start in May or earlier in the season?

Probably a phase in starting with the Summer 2007 schedule.....my guess (and its only a guess) is that all of the routes which are announced will be up and operating by mid May 2007.

Quoting SNNUS (Reply 25):
Year round or seasonal???

Most will be year round I assume......and operate with reduced frequency during the low demand winter months. I could also see DUB/SNN operating as a triangle flight during the winter (Ireland has the most seasonality) but MAN and BRU should work year round as there should be a mix of business and leisure traffic on these routes. The number of flights operating DTW-AMS already varies depending upon season, the same is true of EWR-AMS, and BDL-AMS (the most interesting route) should work yearround as this service should appeal to business travellers (insurance companies) based in the Hartford area.
 
bobnwa
Posts: 4514
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2000 12:10 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 27):
I thought that NW 757-300 are ETOPS for the hawaii service I could be wrong but thought that it was required for that route. (not that they would use them to DUB)

Yes the 757-300 are ETOPS, The 757-200 are not. No one is suggesting the 757-300 for US-Europe.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 29):
Yes the 757-300 are ETOPS, The 757-200 are not. No one is suggesting the 757-300 for US-Europe.

I should have quoted a reply.

Quoting JAFA (Reply 15):
As far as I know the only ETOPS aircraft are the A330's.

I was simply pointing out that the 330's weren't the only ones with ETOPS, I was also asking for reassurance that the 300 series were ETOPS.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:31 am

Quoting EI321 (Reply 10):
Since any Cork service will still have th route through SNN, it does not make much sense in doing it

I thought the rule for Shannon was only for flights going to DUB?

Still, that said, I'm not sure ORK could really support a daily operation. Probably cheaper to fly the triangle routes even if you pick up almost no one in Shannon.

Steve
 
Humberside
Posts: 3241
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:42 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 6):
While it maybe a small point for the airlines, but I would be very surprised if the INS would be willing to open a 3rd station in Ireland to handle pre-clearance of immigration in Cork, given they have staff in Shannon and Dublin. Anybody got any info. on the type of arrangement the Irish Govt/ Aer Rianta have that handles these preclearance facilities?

Only SNN has pre clearance doesn't it? Any ORK flight would just get cleared at the US destination airport

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
There also talk of DXB and CAI from AMS which is rumour at this point.

I assume this would be in codeshare with KL as a tag on to EWR/BDL/DTW-AMS?
 
snnus
Topic Author
Posts: 137
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:24 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Wed Aug 02, 2006 4:23 am

Yes only SNN has pre clearance and the facillities
 
EI321
Posts: 5073
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: NW To Ireland

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:07 am

DUB also has its own US pre-clearance area, aswell as SNN.
 
lhrmaccoll
Posts: 567
Joined: Wed Apr 27, 2005 6:12 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:09 am

Is it only NWA that does not operate to Eire at current or are there others?
 
EI787
Posts: 1230
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:06 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Wed Aug 02, 2006 6:16 am

Quoting Lhrmaccoll (Reply 35):
Is it only NWA that does not operate to Eire at current or are there others?

UA doesn't either.
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4121
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Wed Aug 02, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
DTW-AMS(AM flight)

I believe it to be very unlikely that a DTW-AMS daylight flight will materialize. Such flight will lack in connectivity at both ends. In order to catch the latest outbound European KLM departure bank at 8pm, the flight should arrive in AMS not later than 7pm (KLM's latest inbound longhaul flight arrives at 6.45pm). For that to happen, the flight would have to leave DTW at 5am, which is not viable. An 8am DTW departure would provoke at 10pm AMS arrival, which would leave the flight devoid of any AMS connections.

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
There also talk of DXB and CAI from AMS which is rumour at this point.

Again, not impossible but unlikely to happen. Why would NW operate AMS DXB with B752 when KLM operated twice daily B772s on the route?

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
EWR-AMS.........is that a second flight, in addiiton to the KL flight, or replacing the KL flight? EWR-AMS is seeing a lot of capacity from the SkyTeam gang.

NW is taking over the EWR flight for the winter schedule with A333. After that, the flight is supposed to be returned to KLM for S07, but that can of course still change. However, a single B752 is unlikely to replace an A332 for the busy summer season, for sure since the flight is being complemented by a twice weekly B772 this summer. I could envisage the deployment of a daily NW B752 to complement the daily KLM A332, though.
 
Horus
Posts: 5131
Joined: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:04 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Jetjack74 (Reply 17):
There also talk of DXB and CAI from AMS which is rumour at this point. But the forementioned is scheduled to start in 3/07

Now this caught my attention. A few questions JetJack74:

1. When would such a service start? S07? S08?
2. Would the flights originate from DTW? If so would they route DTW-AMS-CAI-DXB or DTW-AMS-CAI and DTW-AMS-DXB (i.e. seperate flights)?
3. KL use B777s on AMS-CAI (1x daily) and AMS-DXB (2x daily), so demand is there. Would NW require passenger rights between AMS and CAI/DXB?

Thanks in advance


Horus
 
HB-IWC
Posts: 4121
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2000 1:09 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:29 pm

Quoting Horus (Reply 38):
2. Would the flights originate from DTW? If so would they route DTW-AMS-CAI-DXB or DTW-AMS-CAI and DTW-AMS-DXB (i.e. seperate flights)?

I would imagine that, if such venture were to realize, it would be as a nonstop AMS-CAI and AMS-DXB.

Quoting Horus (Reply 38):
3. KL use B777s on AMS-CAI (1x daily) and AMS-DXB (2x daily), so demand is there. Would NW require passenger rights between AMS and CAI/DXB?

Again, I don't see the point for NW to operate such expensive tags, neither do I see how KLM could possibly be enchanted with this given its twice daily B772 service to DXB and daily (5 times B772, 2 times MD11) service to CAI. NW does not currently hold the rights to fly AMS-CAI and AMS-DXB and does not place its code in the KL-operated flights, but the agreement between KL and NW allows the latter to book its passengers on KL-coded interline flights.
 
mainMAN
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:55 am

RE: NW To Ireland

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:40 pm

Quoting Dutchjet (Reply 20):
The BDL-AMS is the most interesting of the bunch......I am curious to see if NW really does launch this route.

It makes sense to me. New York and Boston are equidistant from BDL, and the whole of the Northeastern US is pretty wealthy, including the northernmost New York suburbs like Westchester Co and Bridgeport. If you consider the location of BDL and its transport links, it's excellent for anyone who would rather avoid the drive to BOS or JFK.

I'm guessing of course, because I've never been to the northeast!

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 21):
Me too! While CO and DL have shown intent on serving medium-sized markets in Europe from their American hubs, no one has done the converse: served medium-sized markets in America to hubs in Europe

BDL-AMS would be a very innovative development. BDL-LHR would also be a good one, not that it could happen anytime soon. These are precisely the kind of combinations the 787 has been designed for, just like DTW-MAN and BRU.

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