http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/060802/daw033.html?.v=65

BOS-SNN 757 goes away 10/28
ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD 763 takes its place...

[Edited 2006-08-02 18:01:27]

Typical AA losing a nice route again. I'll be the first to say, the ORD-DUB flight isn't that peachy. What were loads on BOS-SNN?

Could AA fill a 772 on ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD?   

Quoting FXramper (Reply 1): What were loads on BOS-SNN?

Couldn't have been that good. It seemed like every mileage run anyone put together on flyertalk.com included the BOS-SNN-BOS leg.

Why not fly that 757 JFK-SNN instead? Honestly, I can't see an ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD flight be successful as a triangle route, although I've been pleasantly surprised before.

They are probably keeping it a s a triangle becuase they have no choice. Current US/Ireland bilaterals require an airline to serve SNN if they serve DUB (am I correct?). If this was not the case, I would imagine SNN service would have been cancelled altogether.

The 757 BOS-SNN needs to be rotated back into the fleet as the TWA birds are going away next year. Unfortunatley BOS is losing almost all of it's transatlantic service offered by a US airline. All that is left, after losing flights to MAN, CDG and now, SNN, is Heathrow.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): Unfortunatley BOS is losing almost all of it's transatlantic service offered by a US airline. All that is left, after losing flights to MAN, CDG and now, SNN, is Heathrow.

Huh? what happend to AF to CDG, NW to AMS, LH to FRA, VS to LHR and EL to DUB/SNN and Icelandair to KEF?

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5): Huh? what happend to AF to CDG, NW to AMS, LH to FRA, VS to LHR and EL to DUB/SNN and Icelandair to KEF?

The key word was by an US airline.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 5): Huh? what happend to AF to CDG, NW to AMS, LH to FRA, VS to LHR and EL to DUB/SNN and Icelandair to KEF?

Re-read what I said:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): Unfortunatley BOS is losing almost all of it's transatlantic service offered by a US airline.

...losing almost all of it's transatlantic service offered by a US airline.

That basically says when the open skies come into place, we are getting
the hell out of SNN..

SNNBOS route saturated with EI etc, loads were not good this year
on AA SNN BOS,

BOS - SNN will be back next spring and summer. AA always pulls this flight every year in October and brings it back later.

Chuck

This is a pity but it seemed more an afterthought of a route to support the ORD flight and stopover rules. It was the preferred airline for the company I work for who are based in Boston and have an operation in Galway (Western Ireland) and many staff who flew the route had the plane practically to themselves over the past few months when it has been operating. Im sure EI will be pleased to have BOS to themselves once again not to mention seeing AA change the ORD flight to include the SNN stopoff!

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 9):

Sorry DTW, SNNBOS with AA operated the last year and a half , it was not a seasonal service it was meant to be permanent..

Too many U.S Carriers serving SNN now, and NW next year cant see how they can fill the planes.. Big hit on loads this year on all carriers with the addition of DL/CO additional services

With this change (and others) is Boston still worthy of its designation as a 'focus city' for AA? If you look at what AA has been doing at Logan, it's fewer flights rather than more, and smaller planes replacing bigger ones. I thought I heard that AA was going to 'de-emphasize' Logan, so this must be part of that process. The 2X 777s to LHR will be interesting to watch; if UA feels that Heathrow isn't worth keeping, maybe some Einstein at AA will feel the same...at least with respect to Boston.

The only other US-based carrier that had designs on transatlantic service from Boston was Delta, but that's a whole 'nother story for a whole 'nother day.

Sad for Boston AA-watchers...at least those who remember DC-10s and 747s on the LAX run way back when...

Chris in NH

Yeah DL may continue the transatlantic attack adding SNN-DUB-BOS next year who knows, or maybe NW, but think they are going to be from DTW.
Least the AA to ORD route will be comfortable with the 763, heard the SNNBOS 757 was a pig

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 12): With this change (and others) is Boston still worthy of its designation as a 'focus city' for AA? If you look at what AA has been doing at Logan, it's fewer flights rather than more, and smaller planes replacing bigger ones. I thought I heard that AA was going to 'de-emphasize' Logan, so this must be part of that process. The 2X 777s to LHR will be interesting to watch; if UA feels that Heathrow isn't worth keeping, maybe some Einstein at AA will feel the same...at least with respect to Boston. The only other US-based carrier that had designs on transatlantic service from Boston was Delta, but that's a whole 'nother story for a whole 'nother day.

Really? I can think of another airline that fits that description.

well, Boston to SNN is the shortest transatlantic flight route out there, so if there's a route worthy of a 757 it's that one. It's actually, if I'm not mistaken, only a tad longer than BOS-LAX...a route that AA now serves with 757s and actually used to serve with 737-800s. It's pretty sad when you think that for every one U.S. transatlantic nonstop from Boston there are 4 or 5 nonstops run by international flag carriers.

For Boston, I only count these: AA has 2x to LHR; NW has 1x to AMS. That's it! I'm not counting AAs Paris and Shannon services, because those will be cancelled. No sense factoring them in.

Chris in NH

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 12): The 2X 777s to LHR will be interesting to watch; if UA feels that Heathrow isn't worth keeping, maybe some Einstein at AA will feel the same.

I am certain AA will maintain 2 daily 777's to Heathrow. AA appears to be more committed to London than UA ever was. If, and that's a mighty big "if", AA and BA are ever granted ATI under an Open Skies deal, we might see the two airlines adjust their Boston-Heathrow schedule (since they both would be able to code-share on each other's flights). But until then, AA will most likely continue BOS-LHR.

What is the Irish law covering SNN again? If/when open skies ever comes to be, will SNN pretty much dry up?

Quoting Ssides (Reply 17):

In Short.... YES

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): All that is left, after losing flights to MAN, CDG

I know this was discussed here several weeks ago, but have these cities officially been dropped at BOS by AA, or is the schedule still being tweaked.

Quoting Ssides (Reply 17): If/when open skies ever comes to be, will SNN pretty much dry up?

I would say no - theres a lot of low cost European flights, mainly with Ryanair and there would still be limited US service - certainly after all these years of having to stop at SNN, demand has for US flights from there has siggnificantly increased

Quoting DTWAGENT (Reply 9): BOS - SNN will be back next spring and summer. AA always pulls this flight every year in October and brings it back later.

No. The flight has been year-round. AA will operate ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD during the winter; and seperate ORD-DUB and ORD-SNN flights during the summer.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 19): Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): All that is left, after losing flights to MAN, CDG I know this was discussed here several weeks ago, but have these cities officially been dropped at BOS by AA, or is the schedule still being tweaked.

It has not officially been announced by AA so the routes may come back, but, yes, it is pretty much a certainity. Just the fact that they didn't say "AA will continue to offer Boston customers non-stops to three other European gateways..." in the PR helps give it away.

AA is still reducing it's fleet this year. The ventures of BOS-MAN and BOS-SNN have done well, but there are better places to put the aircraft. AA must focus on their core hubs and their two main focus cities (Los Angeles and New York).

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): Unfortunatley BOS is losing almost all of it's transatlantic service offered by a US airline. All that is left, after losing flights to MAN, CDG and now, SNN, is Heathrow.

Which is really not surprising because a) European carriers offer better service generaly speaking, and b) European carriers offer efficient onward connections beyond their hubs which no US carrier at BOS can do for incoming passengers. If you ever tried to transfer from an International flight to say, a US/DL/AA flight in BOS, you know what I mean.

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 12): Sad for Boston AA-watchers...at least those who remember DC-10s and 747s on the LAX run way back when...

Boston AA-watchers have no shortage of 757's to look at  

Actually, I don't think so: firstly, Aer Lingus has promised (or has been told it will promise) to maintain an annual capacity of around 400k pax out of SNN. They will do that, as part of the political price for unrestricted n/s transatlantic access to DUB.

Also, despite the loss of BOS-SNN (which I'd expect to see back next year), other US carriers are converting 757s for t/a use - NWA, US Air, Delta and I'd expect to see those in SNN.

Also, assuming the whole Open Skies thing is sorted out, US carriers can have three times as many flights to DUB as SNN, and that will last until 2008. THAT is when SNN will need to worry, but again, it is closest to the US on the Great Circle and it's unlikely that the 757's range will have increased significantly by then, so I would expect SNN to be seeing some 757 ops still - CO, DL, possibly AA too. SNN effectively has three years to get with the whole idea of Market Economics and Planet Reality and not to be relying on Mother Ireland to protect it in the brave new world of Open Skies; it has shown in the past that it can innovate and be dynamic when it needs to, but the whole history of the stopover shows that when it was protected, it didn't feel the need to. Now that it does need to, I have no doubt that it can face the challenge - and it will do so on the same basis as every other small airport in Europe, but benefiting from key geographical advantages.

Just for clarification, my comment above, "I don't think so ..." refers to SSides' suggestion that SNN's traffic will dry up, not the message directly above!

AA wouldn't have put out a PR like they did (above) if this was just a seasonal adjustment or what have you.

BOS will still have plenty of European service:

VR to RAI (Cape Verde)
S4 to LIS and PDL (Azores)
FI to KEF

edit to add VS to LHR too...
BA to LHR
AF to CDG
LH to FRA and MUC
EI to SNN/DUB
AZ to FCO and MXP
AY to ARN
LX to ZRH

AA to LHR
NW to AMS
US & DL to BDA

there are no glaring holes - losing MAN is the only 'real' loss since BOS will still have widebody service to CDG and SNN.

The only one I see missing might be IB to MAD. MAN and BHX could sustain a BA nonstop a couple times a week to each too.

[Edited 2006-08-03 00:41:39]

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 25): The only one I see missing might be IB to MAD. MAN and BHX could sustain a BA nonstop a couple times a week to each too.

You could add another to that - GLA. I remember when NW used to operate daily DC10's - those were the days...

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 25): BOS will still have plenty of European service:

You are correct in saying that. BOS, for a non hub airport, must have the largest amount of European carriers and flights to Europe. These flights are survived by O&D passengers.

One thing I found funny while looking on wikipedia( I know it's not great for accurate news) they claim Maxjet will begin service to BOS this summer.

Also to note, AF will be using the 744 once the twice daily service ends its seasonal run.

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 25): US & DL to BDA

Bermuda is in Europe?  

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 28): Bermuda is in Europe?

no, but its east of BOS! It's not the Caribbean either...

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 23): Boston AA-watchers have no shortage of 757's to look at

I suppose...essentially 707s with half as many engines  

From what I heard the 757 is a bad choice in AA service. My family doesnt like them.

I havent, so maybe when I do, these will impress me.

MCOflyer

Quoting FXramper (Reply 1): be the first to say, the ORD-DUB flight isn't that peachy

May I ask why you say this? I flew this route in both December and January on the 763, both roundtrip, and loved each of the four segments. Aside from not having PTV's, it was a great flight, packed to the brim every time.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 3): I can't see an ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD flight be successful as a triangle

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4): Current US/Ireland bilaterals require an airline to serve SNN if they serve DUB (am I correct?).

You are correct.

Boston-Shannon has been a nice run, at minimum to test the 757, alongside Boston-Manchester, and there has been steady low-yield traffic alongside some western Ireland-New England o&d business traffic. Also, all coach has not seemed to me to be the best plan for these Boston NW Europe trips, but that thinking is over my pay grade.

Just the other night, late, walking off my Miami trip, I noticed all the folks waiting for the Shannon departure. It looked like everyone from a parish in Dorchester or South Boston were waiting to head home to see family, and there was probably a full load.

Why they are apparently being moved off schedule is fairly straightforward and is the same reason you see all MD-80 rotations for Boston through the bases at Chicago and Dallas. Due to the withdrawal of the former TWA 757s and other system rationalization strategies, the 757 equipment is required elsewhere. Also, one of the Miami 757 flights has been withdrawn for now, or 6 down to 5, and it is still a monopoly run if you don't consider Ft Lauderdale, Delta and Jet Blue.

Expect Boston's Miami, San Juan, Los Angeles and San Francisco to continue with their current (reduced) 757 patterns for now. Boston will certainly retain its two 777 Heathrow flights. The Paris 767 has been a summer seasonal thing for the past several seasons.

The terminal is being remodeled, at least for better food concessions (maybe a Legal?), so with that investment there should be a plateau of service that will remain constant at about 8+ Chicago MD80s, 8+ Dallas MD80s, 5s-6w Miami 757s, 3s-4w San Juan 757s, then the varying west coast trips, including probably a retention of San Diego, too.

Also, as the 757 winglet installations proceed in full force, that adds a little time to the down time for the equipment in the scheme of things.

Perhaps there will still be a New York and Boston AAL 757 flight pattern to NW Europe in the future, but I would not now necessarily bet the farm on it.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 34): The Paris 767 has been a summer seasonal thing for the past several seasons.

Yes, but, for now, it isn't coming back next summer.

Quoting AAL0616 (Reply 34): Boston will certainly retain its two 777 Heathrow flights.

For now, yes, the route is staying. I would not rule out AA leaving this market.

It has less to do with individual flights being profitable and more to do with simplifying their route network and optimizing a large, but still tightly utilized, fleet. If the 777s on BOS-LHR are better used flying to Asia, then so be it, that's what they will be used for. AA isn't getting 777s until 2011-12, but that isn't going to stop them from exploring new oppurtunities in markets such as Asia. When you look where they are going to get those 777s from, Boston-Heathrow is the logical answer.

In the release announcing the ending of ORD-GLA, AA never once mentioned the flight wasn't profitable, they said that "the route has become increasingly unprofitable in comparison with other international route opportunities."

This is why BOS-SNN is gone, and why BOS-MAN and BOS-CDG are likely gone too.

Quoting SW733 (Reply 32): May I ask why you say this? I flew this route in both December and January on the 763, both roundtrip, and loved each of the four segments. Aside from not having PTV's, it was a great flight, packed to the brim every time.

I'm not surprised....Chicago has a large Irish population, especially near MDW....some of my best friends from college were recent Irish Immigrants....

heck, even the "mayor" (more like the bloody head of the gestapo) is of Irish descent...  ..

Alright so i'm very confused as to why AA is dropping BOS-MAN...this flight was always full! I have flown it myself, and it was packed both ways....likewise, my dad has done it some 10 times; each as full as the next.

Perhaps these were one-off flights, but i just dont know.

If the loads are like i suspect, all i can think is that SOMEONE must pick up this route in the near future; DL WOULD be a sure contender with thier new terminal "A". Afterall, European expansion is part of the reason they built it.....oh yea, but then Massport went an screwed them right over. Hmmm, how sweet would it be to see US put an A330-300 on this route!!!!! Well i can dream.

Mike

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 37): Alright so i'm very confused as to why AA is dropping BOS-MAN...this flight was always full! I have flown it myself, and it was packed both ways....likewise, my dad has done it some 10 times; each as full as the next.

I'm as shocked as anyone else in regards to AA pulling the plug on this route, these flights did run full almost every day. I personally can't see anywhere else AA can put a 757 and earn the yields that this flight is able to achieve. Certainly no where within the US.

Maybe it's time for the long-rumored MIA-Brazil 757 operations to begin. Mark, since Varig is somewhat in the crapper right now has AA tried to do anything with the bi-lateral in offering temporary additional services to Brazil?

Quoting BA747400 (Reply 37): Alright so i'm very confused as to why AA is dropping BOS-MAN...this flight was always full! I have flown it myself, and it was packed both ways....likewise, my dad has done it some 10 times; each as full as the next.

Full flights don't mean they make money.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 38): Maybe it's time for the long-rumored MIA-Brazil 757 operations to begin. Mark, since Varig is somewhat in the crapper right now has AA tried to do anything with the bi-lateral in offering temporary additional services to Brazil?

AA has applied for seven extra US-Brazil slots with the Brazilian government that would be operated seperate from the US-Brazil air treaty. I don't know that status of that.

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 38): I'm as shocked as anyone else in regards to AA pulling the plug on this route, these flights did run full almost every day. I personally can't see anywhere else AA can put a 757 and earn the yields that this flight is able to achieve. Certainly no where within the US.

First, it should be noted that while BOS-MAN (and -CDG) have been discontinued in reservation systems, AA has not confirmed it. So this means that while the discontinuation looks likely, we don't have official word of it. Also, if BOS-MAN makes money (which I hear it does), it doesn't mean that there are not better oppurtunities to put the 757 on.

Remember, AA is losing quite a number of 757s this year. They need to cut some routes, and it makes more sense to cut routes from smaller focus city operations rather than hubs. It has become clear lately that AA is slimming down heavily on focus cities. They slashed Fort Lauderdale in half. San Jose is on its last legs. Raleigh has seen significant cuts. Boston has lost nearly a dozen destinations. They want to focus on their five hubs, plus the LA and NYC markets.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39): Full flights don't mean they make money

Thats true, but with a 757, (a relatively cheaper aircraft to operate), average airport fees, lower in-class service, and an almost always full manifest, the profit margin MUST be in their favor.....

AA, ORD-GLA is gone effective when?   

Uncle flew there last month and took a train to Liverpool to see the Open.

What a life...   

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 29): Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 28): Bermuda is in Europe? no, but its east of BOS! It's not the Caribbean either...

And Cape Verde is not Europe either... 

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 25): VR to RAI (Cape Verde)

Quoting FXramper (Reply 1): Typical AA losing a nice route again. I'll be the first to say, the ORD-DUB flight isn't that peachy. What were loads on BOS-SNN?

I took a flight from BOS-SNN in June. On the way to SNN the flight was full to capacity on the flight back to BOS the flight was half empty. It was not that peachy either.

AAL0616...that was a great overview of the current state of affairs for AA in Boston. Thank you!

One question I have is this: Miami and San Juan are big cruise ports, and as such draw more 'steamer-trunk' passengers than your 'briefcase/laptop' crowd. In other words, the belly of those planes must be mighty full and heavy! That's why I reasoned the A300s were used: lots of downstairs room. So apparently the 757 can serve this kind of traffic adequately enough, or the cruise industry is sliding a bit. What do you see? I figure with cruise ships that nearly capsize, where passengers all get deathly ill, etc. the bloom has been coming off the cruise industry slowly but surely.

But, back to aviation: Doesn't (or didn't) AA take one of the London 777s and run it down to Santo Domingo from Boston each Saturday during the high season? Is that still in the mix? It was the only other scheduled AA 777 route we had, save for an ad-hoc MIA substitution here and there.

Chris in NH

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 39): San Jose is on its last legs.

there will be a riot if AA ends SJC completely....even after all the cuts, AA/AE are the 2nd largest operator out of SJC after WN...

While SJC is a shell of what it once was..I don't see SJC being knocked off completely.....it has an important role in AA's West Coast "strategy"......

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 44): One question I have is this: Miami and San Juan are big cruise ports, and as such draw more 'steamer-trunk' passengers than your 'briefcase/laptop' crowd. In other words, the belly of those planes must be mighty full and heavy!

Because of the ongoing thinning of the A306 fleet for additional maintenance (draw your own conclusions), as you know, they do have not flown the Boston runs since last winter. Yes, they carry excellent cargo loads out of Kennedy and Miami into the Caribbean, Central America, Venezuela, Columbia and Ecuador. For the moment, the 757 trips out of Boston to Miami and San Juan are carrying what you might expect, very heavy cargo loads and the typical full, lower fare main cabins with passengers mostly made up of our permanent or temporary southern neighbors who live and work in New England, or their families. The extra luggage requirements are, of course, a daily hassle. The weights have to be closely watched and often adjusted before dispatch. Not to mention the security bottlenecks for both people and goods. It is normal to push back 15-20 minutes past schedule and arrive at Miami or San Juan on time or early to schedule, especially now with the airway changes where flights are operating at closer intervals. You can pick up a lot more traffic visually now than before. In any case, even heavy, the RR-757 is a strong girl who can get right up to 36,000 or 38,000 rather easily and float right down to Hampton Roads, Wilmington and the offshore Hiley1 STAR really effortlessly. Unless Miami has weather, the direct Hiley1 (as opposed to the old Heatt STAR) combined with the new Runway 8L-26R at Miami have really sped up the arrival procedure and times, at least as far as I have experienced. San Juan has always been speedy inbound.

Regarding customers headed for cruise ships, my unprofessional eye tells me that there are fewer middle-aged snowbirds in shorts and sneakers on board but they are certainly still around. My guess is that there are far more of our southern neighbors onboard these days. Summer is no longer the off season for at least Miami and the big connecting hub has evened traffic out considerably. The birds have been consistently full this summer on the Miami runs so far as I can see, and that includes domestic as well as international segments.

There are a lot more laptop and briefcase types onboard than you m might realize; most are connecting south through Miami, and the first class seats are always completely filled with upgrades. The tourists travel light southbound and the southern neighbors are the ones carrying the trunks. Not as bad as flying the old Caribair with island women carrying chickens onboard, but close.

Boston has had the four or five day 757 run to Santo Domingo and, as of today, that flight was to operate out at 11:00 a.m. There are some interesting downtime patterns for the 757s at Boston as you can tell from the current published schedule. That flight will terminate for the fall, I think, and come back in the winter with the 757.

It would not surprise me, that given the current 757 fleet winglet renovation and ex--TWA equipment removal, we might see an A306 or two back into Boston at some point.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 45): While SJC is a shell of what it once was..I don't see SJC being knocked off completely.....it has an important role in AA's West Coast "strategy"......

I do not see AA leaving SJC completely. They've just put 757's SJC-AUS and do quite well to DFW and ORD. I would like to see JFK and MIA come back and maybe, with 738's, we will see this happen.

Folks, AA is disposing 20 ex-TWA ETOP ready 757's... of course these services out of BOS has to be cut. Has nothing to do with the route but everything to do with not having the metal.

AA decided that ending a leases on planes that don't fit withing their fleet structure was the right thing to do. Maybe so, maybe not... but the fact remains, that this public company needs to find some growth or no one will buy their stock...

I can see new planes being ordered to replace these 20. Do I smell 739ER or 7878 order?

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 47): I do not see AA leaving SJC completely. They've just put 757's SJC-AUS and do quite well to DFW and ORD. I would like to see JFK and MIA come back and maybe, with 738's, we will see this happen.

I'm so glad they added a 757 to the "Nerd Bird" route..  ...


MyAviation.net photo:

Photo © Jacobin777


Unfortunately, ORD has been becoming a casuality as of late....they went from 4x/daily to 3x/daily...now they are moving it down to 2x/daily which sux because I fly on that route every few weeks......  

With B6 flying SJC-JFK...I don't see it happening anytime soon..and I'm not sure if we'll be seeing 738's at SJC anytime soon....