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billreid
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359X

Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:59 am

Quoting Agill (Reply 49):
Sadly enough a large part seem to be cheerleaders for one specific brand of airplanes.

Absolutely CORRECT!

I can draw an aircraft in my basement, which doesn't make me a design engineer.
I fear this is a smokescrean from Airbus. The problems aren't ironed out with the A380 yet this smoke.

Lets see actual design specifications, or is this dishonest smoke in windows.
I used to love the airbus product, and still do. But this leads me towards losing any respect I had. They need to fix the A380 before creating some other design. Sure seams like a very confused bunch??
I want to know the economics, the price, the range.
Airbus isn't releasing those things so I really doubt this aircraft is real.
Again Airbus needs to come to the table with some meat.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
astuteman
Posts: 7248
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 50):
I want to know the economics, the price, the range.

AFAIK, Bill, the price and range of all the A350X family have been fully published, and extensively discussed on this forum.
Likewise, given the weights of the aircraft for a given mission, and likely engine SFC's, there's certainly been enough information around for us to have quite a lot of discussion on economics too.

This thread is as good as any ..
FI: Airbus Goes For Extra Width (by Leelaw Jul 24 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Linking this article..

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...h+Airbus+goes+for+extra+width.html

If you care to do a search, there are plenty more....  Smile

Regards
 
miamix707
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Mon Aug 07, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 45):
I don't understand everybody complaining about the look of the aircrafts. Aircraft companies (Boeing, Airbus etc) do not built aircrafts to please your eyes but only for best economics. This means of course best aerodynamics. They don't care at all what the average a.netter thinks about the looks of the aircrafts.

Those are really wise words!  Wow! Thanks for stating the obvious to the average a.netter, yourself included. While the efficiency of aerodynamics is obviously a more important goal, you might be surprised to know for (at least for some manufacturers) the looks department is not an absolute non-factor. You'd be surprised if you read Boeing's comments about .. (can't remember if it was the 767-400 or the new derivatives of the 747 they were styding in the mid 90s). Anyways there was an article that quoted B as saying something like "most importantly the plane has to look right"

Evidence that some companies prefer their products to have "the right look" while obviously being "efficient".

Forget 787. Taking a closer look at the 2nd pic of the A350, that fuselage looks more like a 767 now.  Smile
 
singaporegirl
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:07 am

is it true that the reason the company went for the 359xbr is because the proposed 787-10 has shorter range? thanks for the input.
Ladies & Gentlemen, we will now demonstrate the use of the safety equipment on this aircraft...
 
trex8
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:18 am

the 787-10 details so far made public are that it will have the same MTOW as the 787-9 - 245tonnes, so it will have less range (about 1800km) than a 787-9 as it will be trading capacity for range. it will probably have less range than the new A350-900 (265tonnes MTOW) as that is supposed to have same range as a 787-9. Even the A350-1000 (295tonnes) is supposed to have same range as the -900.
 
Johnny
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Mon Aug 07, 2006 2:56 pm

Well done Airbus! That airplane looks way better than the original A350-versions and also looks a lot better than the B787.

THIS airplane is in one line with the B777, which is together with the A340NG the best looking widebody all around.

IMO the B787 is the most boring looking Boeing ever - it changed its design from revolutionary to a pumped-up Embraer 170.

 Smile
 
VH-BZF
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:58 pm

It's a nice looking bird & if she does everything that Airbus have forecast then they maybe sitting on a real winner? However they are very late to the table & with a 2012-2014 delivery schedule, I think that airlines like Qantas are keen to replace their ageing fleets of B767's with the B787's as they can earlier delivery times than waiting another 6-8 years for the Airbus product! 10% better cash costs than the B787 is a huge difference though! BIG claim!

I still don't get it though, why would SQ essentially order 2 of the same type of aeroplane (787 & A350xwb???). The A330 lease also puzzled me with SQ? Why not just order more B777's? Anyway I guess they know what they are doing!

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
krisyyz
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:04 pm

Im really trying to give Airbus some slack here but the new pics are way too B787ish.

Interesting how Airbus releases these pics right after Boeing previewed its new airplane site for the B787.

Disappointed,
KrisYYZ
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:04 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
I still don't get it though, why would SQ essentially order 2 of the same type of aeroplane (787 & A350xwb???).

They are still only MOUs so maybe SQ are trying to get a better deal out of A or B? SQ might see the two aircraft doing different jobs for the them and may be happy with an order for both types of aircraft.

The nose looks great, similar to the 787 so I hope this stays the same when the aircraft is launched. The winglets are pretty cool too and they are way better looking than the 787s.
http://www.airbus.com/store/photolib...owres_A350_XWB_farn_streiff_mr.jpg

[Edited 2006-08-08 15:16:21]
 
VH-BZF
Posts: 795
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:09 pm

Oh thats right the A330 lease is to compensate for the A380 delays & obviously to tie them over until the A350xwb's arrive!

BZF
Ansett Australia - (was) One of the worlds great airlines!
 
David L
Posts: 8551
Joined: Tue May 18, 1999 2:26 am

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:11 pm

Quoting BillReid (Reply 50):
or is this dishonest smoke in windows

 confused 

Sorry but... what are you talking about?
 
RedChili
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:44 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
I think that airlines like Qantas are keen to replace their ageing fleets of B767's with the B787's as they can earlier delivery times than waiting another 6-8 years for the Airbus product!

Qantas has already ordered the B787, so there's no need to speculate on what Qantas will do.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
why would SQ essentially order 2 of the same type of aeroplane (787 & A350xwb???).

Firstly, you have to remember that they are not exactly the same size. The A350 is slightly bigger than the B787.

Secondly, SQ does not need to replace their whole 772 fleet between 2008-2012. They do have a few 772s that are so relatively new that they can wait with getting the replacement until 2012-2015. And at that time, the A350 will probably be more technologically advanced and more fuel efficient than the B787.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
The A330 lease also puzzled me with SQ? Why not just order more B777's?

Probably because the A330 is more economical than the B772 on intra-Asian flights.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
EI321
Posts: 5069
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:43 pm

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:20 pm

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
The A330 lease also puzzled me with SQ? Why not just order more B777's?

The A330 has lower CASMs and airbus probably gave SQ cheap lease rates to secure their A350 order.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
I think that airlines like Qantas are keen to replace their ageing fleets of B767's with the B787's as they can earlier delivery times than waiting another 6-8 years for the Airbus product!

The difference between the earliest availible slots for both aircraft is about 1-2 years.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 56):
I still don't get it though, why would SQ essentially order 2 of the same type of aeroplane (787 & A350xwb???).

There are several possibilities. One is that SQ want to play each manufacturer off each other to further reduce their aquisition costs. Another is that in the case that either manufacturer runs into problems or delays with the development/testing process, SQ will still have the other aircraft to fall back on. Another is that SQ were not sure that the A350X would happen soon enough at the time that they ordered the 787s.
Im not 100% convinced that we will ever see both these aircrat in SQ colours.

Quoting VH-BZF (Reply 59):
Oh thats right the A330 lease is to compensate for the A380 delays & obviously to tie them over until the A350xwb's arrive!

Tie over until the arrival of the A350, yes. Compensate for the A380? Unlikely, since they ordered more of them instead.
 
CV990
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:02 am

Hi!

I remember many years ago everytime the Soviet Union would come out with a new airplane ( Tupolev, Ilyushin, Antonov, etc. etc.... ) people would say that it was a copy of a certain type of a US airplane...for example the TU154 was a copy of the 727, the TU134 was a copy of the DC-9, the AN12 was a copy of the C-130, etc. etc. Now the A350 is comming out and again we have people saying it's a copy of the 787, etc. etc! Well at least the A380 is not a copy of any airplane so far..so any one that comes out with a new design close with the A380 certainly will "copy" it from the A380!
ZRH, wise words you said brother...very wise!!!!
Regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
DAYflyer
Posts: 3546
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:13 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 14):
OMG, it's a 787!!!!!!!



Quoting TWPHIL (Reply 36):
Must admit...Sorry Airbus....Really looks like a 787 !..



Quoting LY777 (Reply 34):
sorry but it is a pale copy of the 787.Airbus, try to have some imagination!!!

Yes indeed. Airbus has copied the 787 in appearance. Now if it only had a composite fuselage......
One Nation Under God
 
jacobin777
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:15 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 63):
Well at least the A380 is not a copy of any airplane so far..so any one that comes out with a new design close with the A380 certainly will "copy" it from the A380!

Hi CV990...

...while the A380 is a technological marvel...it does look strikingly close to the MD-12

"Up the Irons!"
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15104
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:19 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 63):

No matter how much you whine or put people down for saying so, it looks like a 787 anyway.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
CV990
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:28 am

Hi!

Ikramerica, yeah, the A350 really looks like the 787, specially on the cockpit widows!!! And maybe other things...that's why SQ ordered it!!! I think they found out some other differences in the A350 compared to the 787, otherwise they would just simply get addicional 787's!
regards, and don't you think the A350 look really awesome with SQ livery???
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
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shamrock350
Posts: 5481
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 67):
specially on the cockpit widows

They do if compared to the 7E7 or early 787 but the final design for the cockpit windows on the 787 are not very similar.

http://www.airbus.com/store/photolibrary/AIRCRAFT/AIRBUS/A350/att00007736/media_object_image_lowres_A350_XWB-900_V02_md.jpg
They are both good looking aircraft and look great in SQ colours!

[Edited 2006-08-08 19:44:50]
 
Areopagus
Posts: 1337
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 12:31 pm

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:45 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 58):
The nose looks great, similar to the 787 so I hope this stays the same when the aircraft is launched.

It does look nice. People have been saying these designs crib from the Embraer 170, but to me they harken back to the Comet. That picture you linked shows the pillars between the windshield and side windows to be slanted like the earlier artist's conceptions of the 787, and the windshield is similarly shield-like. But that went away on the 787 when pilots complained about the visibility obstruction of such a slanted pillar. I expect the A350 cockpit windows to change as well.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Areopagus (Reply 69):
I expect the A350 cockpit windows to change as well

Too bad! They look cool, specially from the front because of the way the window slopes down.
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:22 pm

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting CV990 (Reply 63):
I remember many years ago everytime the Soviet Union would come out with a new airplane ( Tupolev, Ilyushin, Antonov, etc. etc.... ) people would say that it was a copy of a certain type of a US airplane...for example the TU154 was a copy of the 727, the TU134 was a copy of the DC-9, the AN12 was a copy of the C-130, etc. etc. Now the A350 is comming out and again we have people saying it's a copy of the 787, etc. etc! Well at least the A380 is not a copy of any airplane so far..so any one that comes out with a new design close with the A380 certainly will "copy" it from the A380!
ZRH, wise words you said brother...very wise!!!!

Everybody knows the Soviets tried to copy everything but those planes are super original compared to the A350! lol and.. don't lie to your brother.

Anyone looking at the link @ reply 58 cuould see that model (which actually looks cool, better than the SQ drawing) is too similar to a 787 but again blind fannatics and those who like to argue for the sake of arguing would still say otherwise. Even the cockpit windows are simlar to the original rendition of the 787.

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 65):
...while the A380 is a technological marvel...it does look strikingly close to the MD-12

I remember when the first drawing of the A380 came out I thought it was an uglier copy of the MD12.
 
David L
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 66):
No matter how much you whine or put people down for saying so

After all the bickering in previous A v B discussions, you call that "whining" and "putting people down"?
 
CV990
Posts: 4224
Joined: Sat May 22, 1999 3:49 am

RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:07 am

Hi!

MIAMIx707, saying something like you said "Everybody knows the Soviets tried to copy everything....." I suggest you should buy some books regarding soviet aviation from the 40's to the 80's and maybe then your reformulate a bit your words, just think about airplanes like the TU114, TU104, MIG15, MIG21 etc. etc!!!
Regarding the rest, and because some people here are very sensitive to my words I just want to say that I apolagise and infact the A350 looks very, very similar to the 787! Peace and lentilles!!!!
regards
CV990, the Maserati of the skies!
 
miamix707
Posts: 3848
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:16 am

Hi, CV990, the soviets didn't just copied the B29 exactly, also copied the Shuttle (Buran), and used to copy everything else that moved. Thanks for your suggestion about reading soviet books, I actually I grew up reading those, therefore I love soviet airliners, including helicopters. Have you ever looked inside the cockpit and exhaust pipe of a real MIG-15? (soviet copy of the Sabre). Not to brag, but I've seen more MIG21s screaming overhead than you, brother  Smile

By the way, I think the 990, but even more the CV880 were sleek, beautiful machines. Now those are planes I wish I wouldve seen flying!
The lentils part is a good suggestion too.. running off to get lunch!
 
lehpron
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:43 am

I feel like hitting some people in here, but then it would only be thier fault if they knew they were being ignorant, that they only care about how it looks. Engineers use computers for optimisation, designs will end up looking the same. It's like sumations in math: 1 + 1/2 + 1/4 + 1/8 + ... etc = 2, there is no way around it. There is no 'imagination' bull. As long as wel do not invoke swept forward wings, literally ALL subsonic mass travel will look like the typical twin -- you have two choices: either get involved in the design or deal with it.

Quoting Mptpa (Reply 47):
Quoting Irobertson (Reply 24):
ALL engines today are enormous.

Because of the higher-by-pas ratio of the current turbofans

No, not really. That would only be true of the pressure, temperature and velocity do not change - but they do. Therefore bypass is not an area ratio.
The meaning of life is curiosity; we were put on this planet to explore opportunities.
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359X

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:54 am

G´day

Quoting CV990 (Reply 63):
the TU134 was a copy of the DC-9

CV990, may I correct you in as much as the TU134 was more likely a copy of the Sud Aviation Caravelle. The DC 9 was in itself a copy of the Caravelle, a fact that was widely advertised by Sud Aviation at the time.


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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:07 am

 
RedChili
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RE: Airbus Releases Updated Picture Of SIA's A359XWB

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:33 am

Quoting MIAMIx707 (Reply 74):
also copied the Shuttle (Buran)

The Russians made design studies already in the 1960s, many years before the American shuttle was built, where the Buran was one of the favored alternatives.
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