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masseybrown
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787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 2:45 pm

A small item in AW&ST of July 17th says that Boeing recommends that 787 engine nacelles be painted a single color and wants the color to be gray, matching the color of the inlet. "If you interrupt the laminar flow by adding paint layers, you could increase fuel burn by 30,000 gallons per year per airplane," says Robert Hinderberger of Boeing.

The article states that "Boeing will honor requests for different colors, but its customers will be told they are trading aesthetics for operating efficiency..."

Sounds like a lot of gray nacelles are in the future.
 
MaxQ2351
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:05 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Sounds like a lot of gray nacelles are in the future.

Makes sense though. If an airline is buying a plane like a 787, that was built around the premise of being ultra-efficient, why would you trade all of that away just so the paint on the nacelles match the paint on the fuselage???

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Boeing recommends that 787 engine nacelles be painted a single color

From what it says there, Boeing only reccomends they are gray. Maybe you could do just a single color??? It would work out fine on most carriers too.....Northwest, Continental, Air Canada, etc. Those all could easily just throw a single color on the nacelles and call it a livery!!

-Max
The 777-200LR......2 engines 4 longer haul
 
masseybrown
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:14 pm

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 1):
Maybe you could do just a single color??? It would work out fine on most carriers too.....Northwest, Continental, Air Canada, etc. Those all could easily just throw a single color on the nacelles and call it a livery!!

Maybe gray covers the composite in a single coat and other colors require layers, with the potential of delamination ... I'm only guessing.

Interesting that Boeing's website shows the 787 with multicolored nacelles. Nevertheless, if I were warned about an extra 30K gallons fuel consumption, I think I'd agree to international orange, if that's the color Boeing wanted.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:21 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 2):
nteresting that Boeing's website shows the 787 with multicolored nacelles.

They don't. All the pics show the grey nacelles. I think they did the day of the announcement about aerodynamics and graphics. Only the old title pic remains.

While I doubt you'll see a lot of graphics on 787 engines, I would also imagine you'll see very few grey ones unless it fits the customers livery. I think all Boeing is really saying is that they really, really recommend a single color. I'd bet real money that QANTAS will paint them red (barring a livery change between now and then).

[Edited 2006-08-05 08:25:34]
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QANTASforever
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 3:52 pm

Quoting MCIGuy (Reply 3):
I'd bet real money that QANTAS will paint them red (barring a livery change between now and then).

Qantas don't have red nascelles on their planes.

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dl757md
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:03 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Boeing recommends that 787 engine nacelles be painted a single color and wants the color to be gray, matching the color of the inlet. "If you interrupt the laminar flow by adding paint layers, you could increase fuel burn by 30,000 gallons per year per airplane,"

The color has nothing to do with the aerodynamics. When you have two or more colors the tape line at the border of the colors is not smooth. The resulting ridge would disrupt laminar flow and create drag. The transition could be made smoother by clearcoating and sanding. But this is not normal for commercial aircraft painting and would cost extra.

Boeing wants gray because lighter colors reflect heat from the sunlight better than darker colors. Heat is one of composites worst enemies.

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MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:28 pm

Quoting QANTASforever (Reply 4):
Qantas don't have red nascelles on their planes.

Sorry, confused thier livery with Virgin's. My apologies.
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B747_A340
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:35 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 5):
Heat is one of composites worst enemies.

I would think that considering the plane is flying for most of its lifetime this wouldn't be a problem as temperatures at altitude are generally below freezing point? Also, wouldn't this mean supersonic planes can't use composites because of the heat created by friction? (I'd swear composites are used in fighters). Sorry for hijacking the thread. I am just curious
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MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting B747_A340 (Reply 7):
I would think that considering the plane is flying for most of its lifetime this wouldn't be a problem as temperatures at altitude are generally below freezing point? Also, wouldn't this mean supersonic planes can't use composites because of the heat created by friction? (I'd swear composites are used in fighters). Sorry for hijacking the thread. I am just curious

You are correct. The F-22A cruises around mach 1.5.
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cobra27
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 5:54 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
30,000 gallons

That is not really a lot. I hole year you would save only for 1 787 flight
 
trent900
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 7:50 pm

Why has this only come about now. If it's possible to save that much fuel why haven't airlines been doing this in the past? Maybe Boeing are saying this so the aircraft as efficient as they make out.

D.
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 8:12 pm

Quoting Trent900 (Reply 10):
Maybe Boeing are saying this so the aircraft as efficient as they make out.

I don't know about that. I think it's more of just an overall effort to find efficiency anywhere they can. During the B-2 and F-22 programs, great pains were taken to keep the seams between composite panels to a minimum to keep the radar cross section low. Turns out, these were pretty good moves from an aerodynamic standpoint too. I think this is the civilian equivalent of that.  

[Edited 2006-08-05 13:26:08]
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RedDragon
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:22 pm

Why are Boeing just recommending this for the nacelles? Is it the obvious anser that customers just may go for plain grey nacelles, but they'd never go for a single-colour fuselage, or are there special aerodynamic (laminar flow) considerations for the nacelles?

Rich
 
Lumberton
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:29 pm

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 9):

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
30,000 gallons
That is not really a lot. I hole year you would save only for 1 787 flight

For a fleet like QF's with 45-65 of these aircraft, that's quite a chunk of change every year to be saved just on the color of the nacelles!
"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
 
MCIGuy
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:33 pm

While it would be unique, I'd hate to see all 787's flying around with grey engines. I'm hoping the 787 customers do paint them in their own colors.
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Rheinbote
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sat Aug 05, 2006 10:14 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
If you interrupt the laminar flow by adding paint layers, you could increase fuel burn by 30,000 gallons per year per airplane

That means whatever benefit there is from foregoing a multi-color nacelle is equivalent to ~0,25% in drag - the difference between a pristine plane and a dirty plane is about the same. And note that Boeing said 'up to 30,000' in typical marketing lingo, so the average benefit may be even less.

Boeing has always been advertising a 'laminar flow nacelle' in their 787 technology briefings. But a smooth finish alone will hardly do the trick. So either the 'grey paint' story was conceived as a smart excuse (rather lame) for dropping previously considered 'real' laminar flow technology or there's something beyond the paint we've not yet been told about.
If it's the paint only, a benefit of 'up to' 30,000 gallons in fuel saved per year would be outweighed by the cost to clean and polish the nacelle prior to every single flight. Otherwise a few dead midges would suffice to destroy whatever laminar flow there is.
 
irobertson
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):

Good point. With the way Air France cleans their current planes, I can't see them out there before every flight making sure the nacelles are perfectly grey... I wonder if their current level of grime makes their planes already less fuel efficient?
 
flydreamliner
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:14 am

Quoting MaxQ2351 (Reply 1):
From what it says there, Boeing only reccomends they are gray. Maybe you could do just a single color??? It would work out fine on most carriers too.....Northwest, Continental, Air Canada, etc. Those all could easily just throw a single color on the nacelles and call it a livery!!

I'm pretty sure depending on which grey you chose, it would match their liveries pretty well..

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 9):

That is not really a lot. I hole year you would save only for 1 787 flight

When you throw out pillows and peanuts to save $2 million / year, saving 30,000 gallons per plane by paining the nacelles a different color seems like a no brainer.

Quoting Rheinbote (Reply 15):
So either the 'grey paint' story was conceived as a smart excuse (rather lame) for dropping previously considered 'real' laminar flow technology or there's something beyond the paint we've not yet been told about.

We'll find out when it flies. Perhaps all their work on the aerodynamics of nacelles has highlighted the difference paint can make. Who knows. It'll be flying next year, so we won't have to wait long to find out.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
miamix707
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:19 am

Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
Sounds like a lot of gray nacelles are in the future.

I don't mind visually (although I prefer old school metallic ones  Smile Most fully painted engines look tacky anyways specially on eurowhite aircraft and even non-eurowhite ones such as Icelandair.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:23 am

Quoting B747_A340 (Reply 7):
Also, wouldn't this mean supersonic planes can't use composites because of the heat created by friction? (I'd swear composites are used in fighters).

"Composite" is a much misunderstood word. A laminated bow staff is made of composite. So is a laminate floor. The word simply means a combination of materials into one. The objective is to gain the advantages of the different materials in this new composite material.

There are plenty of composites that have no problem handling heat and cold.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Dtw757
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 9):
Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter):
30,000 gallons

That is not really a lot. I hole year you would save only for 1 787 flight

I'd be quite pleased if someone were to give me 30,000 gallons of Jet A
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flylku
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 3:17 am

Perhaps an airline will get creative and blend colors of paint as the nacelle is being painted. This could give an interesting effect without creating seams in the paint that would disrupt the laminar flow.

30,000 gallons for such a simple trade-off? Great stuff!
...are we there yet?
 
B747_A340
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
There are plenty of composites that have no problem handling heat and cold.

Oh I know, but I'd think that the composites used on a plane would be heat resistant, no? (and by heat resistant I mean, can withstand continuous sun exposure even if they are painted black)
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cobra27
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:22 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 20):
I'd be quite pleased if someone were to give me 30,000 gallons of Jet A

Do you have a jet plane?
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting B747_A340 (Reply 22):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 19):
There are plenty of composites that have no problem handling heat and cold.

Oh I know, but I'd think that the composites used on a plane would be heat resistant, no? (and by heat resistant I mean, can withstand continuous sun exposure even if they are painted black)

Sure. But I think the problem at hand is more that the paint cannot be made as smooth if in multiple layers. Or something like that.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Hslightnin
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 23):
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 20):
I'd be quite pleased if someone were to give me 30,000 gallons of Jet A

Do you have a jet plane?

I would take it too
thats $120k down at the FBO
 
NicolasRubio
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:23 am

Instead of adding paint layers, why don't they use a decal as in Wanula dreaming, Nalanji dreaming, Hibiscus and Freedom of space?
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
nstead of adding paint layers, why don't they use a decal as in Wanula dreaming, Nalanji dreaming, Hibiscus and Freedom of space?

Wouldn't that have the same effect?

BTW it's Wunala.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
NicolasRubio
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
Wouldn't that have the same effect?

Not if the decal is a single-layered one...

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
BTW it's Wunala.

Sory, my mistake... I have read some remarks some minutes ago where it said Wanula...
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flydreamliner
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:21 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 23):
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 20):
I'd be quite pleased if someone were to give me 30,000 gallons of Jet A

Do you have a jet plane?

Nope, the plan was to drink it.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
ANITIX87
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
why don't they use a decal as in Wanula dreaming, Nalanji dreaming, Hibiscus and Freedom of space?

Those entire fuselages are decals?!?! That's a big-a$$ sticker, haha!!!

And, I certainly knew something new today. I call myself an aviation afficionado, but I was under the impression that the engine nacelle was another word for the engine pod, that holds the actual engine. And I thought that the outside of the engine (that part that's painted) was called the Cowling or something like that. Where did I go wrong?!

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Boeing Nut
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 5):

Good description. However, I personally think it's a marketing scheme. If efficieancy was always the game, then why hasn't this issue been presented before. I accept the aerodynamic explanation, but not the effieciency one.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:54 am

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 28):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
Wouldn't that have the same effect?

Not if the decal is a single-layered one...

You have a point. I really don't have an answer.

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 28):
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 27):
BTW it's Wunala.

Sory, my mistake... I have read some remarks some minutes ago where it said Wanula...

It's cool. Hardly a mainstream word. Those get hashed up enough on this site. Big grin

Quoting ANITIX87 (Reply 30):
And, I certainly knew something new today. I call myself an aviation afficionado, but I was under the impression that the engine nacelle was another word for the engine pod, that holds the actual engine. And I thought that the outside of the engine (that part that's painted) was called the Cowling or something like that. Where did I go wrong?!

There is certainly a convergence. But here is the way it should be:
- Nacelle - The entire assembly holding the engine. Basically everything hanging on the pylon. Nacelle means a sort of holder/container.
- Cowling - The aerodynamic cover for the engine. In other words just the rounded bits protecting it from the elements and making it smooth.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
dl757md
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 32):
There is certainly a convergence. But here is the way it should be:
- Nacelle - The entire assembly holding the engine. Basically everything hanging on the pylon. Nacelle means a sort of holder/container.
- Cowling - The aerodynamic cover for the engine. In other words just the rounded bits protecting it from the elements and making it smooth.

Not to nitpick but the nacelle by your definition doesn't hold the engine, the pylon does. The engine attaches to the pylon as do the cowlings/nacelles which attach to the pylon and latch to each other wrapping around but not attaching to the engine. The exception to this is the nose cowl which bolts to the front of the fan case of the engine. Cowling and nacelle are two different words for the same thing.


Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 31):
If efficieancy was always the game, then why hasn't this issue been presented before. I accept the aerodynamic explanation, but not the effieciency one.

Aren't they one in the same? The issue hasn't been presented before because the price of fuel was never nearly as high as it is now and a commercial airframe has never been designed with as much of an emphasis on aerodynamic efficiency.

DL757Md
757 Most beautiful airliner in the sky!
 
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:37 am

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 33):
Not to nitpick but the nacelle by your definition doesn't hold the engine, the pylon does. The engine attaches to the pylon as do the cowlings/nacelles which attach to the pylon and latch to each other wrapping around but not attaching to the engine. The exception to this is the nose cowl which bolts to the front of the fan case of the engine. Cowling and nacelle are two different words for the same thing.

By all means nitpics. I learn things every day in this forum.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
Dtw757
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 9:48 am

Quoting Hslightnin (Reply 25):
Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 23):
Quoting DTW757 (Reply 20):
I'd be quite pleased if someone were to give me 30,000 gallons of Jet A

Do you have a jet plane?

I would take it too
thats $120k down at the FBO

Those were my thoughts exactly!
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PH-TVH
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:03 pm

Looks where gonna see some retro engines again...
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DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 12:41 pm

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 9):
That is not really a lot. I hole year you would save only for 1 787 flight

Keep in mind that most customers will opperate more than one 787 in their fleet for more than one year.

Take a moderate-sized fleet of 20 787-8 and conservativly assume that 25,000 gallons of paint will be saved with this new color scheme. The fleet would then save 500,000 gallons per annum. Over a conservative lifespan of 15 years, that's a net savings of 7.5 million gallons of fuel

Now we aren't talking insignificant costs anymore, especially for a more simple paint scheme that likely has cost savings of its own.
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Mendaero
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:26 pm

Quoting NicolasRubio (Reply 26):
Instead of adding paint layers, why don't they use a decal as in Wanula dreaming, Nalanji dreaming, Hibiscus and Freedom of space?

Wunala and Nalanji dreaming are painted, I'm pretty sure there are only the standard decals highlighting component locations etc and the oneworld decal.
 
cobra27
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 6:57 pm

Quoting Hslightnin (Reply 25):
I would take it too
thats $120k down at the FBO

120000$ -optimist. Be happy if you get 50-70k$.

The savings are much greater when you fit winglets on a 737. That is around 750000 gallons a years.
 
Dtw757
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 7:17 pm

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 39):
That is around 750000 gallons a years.

Winglets really save 750000 gallons a year on a 737?....wow that's incredible!....That's $3,000,000 dollars per airplane
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777STL
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 8:20 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 13):
For a fleet like QF's with 45-65 of these aircraft, that's quite a chunk of change every year to be saved just on the color of the nacelles!

Especially when you consider airlines are cutting the number of olives in their salads just to save money these days....
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Starlionblue
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:34 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 40):
Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 39):
That is around 750000 gallons a years.

Winglets really save 750000 gallons a year on a 737?....wow that's incredible!....That's $3,000,000 dollars per airplane

Does Jet-A really cost that much?

In any case if you consider the operating costs the savings are significant but not proportionally gigantic.
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Boeing Nut
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:29 pm

Quoting Dl757md (Reply 33):
Quoting Boeing Nut (Reply 31):
If efficieancy was always the game, then why hasn't this issue been presented before. I accept the aerodynamic explanation, but not the effieciency one.

Aren't they one in the same? The issue hasn't been presented before because the price of fuel was never nearly as high as it is now and a commercial airframe has never been designed with as much of an emphasis on aerodynamic efficiency.

True, but Boeing has stated that their recommendation of the nacelle color on the 787 will not apply to the 748 dispite the fact that they are virtually identical engines.

So why wouldn't they recommend it even if the savings were minimal? That screams marketing BS to me.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.
 
DfwRevolution
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:48 pm

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 40):
Winglets really save 750000 gallons a year on a 737?....wow that's incredible!....That's $3,000,000 dollars per airplane

No, there's an extra zero in there.

The Aviation Partners winglets typically save about 75,000 gallons of fuel during a year of opperation, not 750,000 gallons.

That's still a dramatic fuel savings on a per aircraft basis...
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474218
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Sun Aug 06, 2006 11:49 pm

Boeing can say what they want, but after the airlines take delivery of an airframe it is theirs and if they want to paint the nacelles who is to stop them? When Eastern stripped the paint off their L-1011 fleet Lockheed worked had to discourage them, pointing out the that the L-1011 specifications require all areas of the fuselage above Water Line 200 be painted and pointing out the problems that could arise from stripping paint from the the fuselage. Eastern did what they wanted as they pointed out, its our airplane and we want it bare. If a 787 operator want to paint the nacelles Boeing has no means of stopping them.
 
777236ER
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:29 am

This seems a bit silly.. Firstly, the boundary layer is going to transition to fully turbulent pretty soon after the leading edge of the nacelle anyway. If the aircraft is flying at 250 m/s, the dynamic viscosity of the air is about 1.5E-05 Pa.s and the density is 0.38 kg/m^3 (ISA at 35000ft), assuming the boundary layer transitions at Re=10^5 (assumption for a flat plate), then it will transition at L = (10^5 * 1.5 * 10^-5) / (0.38 * 250). Or a whopping 11mm.

What they might be talking about are small, localised separations and vorticies caused by paint imperfections, skin patches, rivets etc. However, Boeing have reverted to the 767-style APU exhaust, over the less draggy 777-style APU exhaust on the 787 (apparently to reduce ramp noise from the running APU). So quite why they're willing to sacrifice a few percent drag reduce ramp noise, yet are asking the airlines to reduce their corporate branding to save a few hundreths of a percent of drag, I don't know.
Your bone's got a little machine
 
cobra27
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:05 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 42):
Does Jet-A really cost that much?

The prices varies.
The southwest pay around 1.27$ for a gallon acoording to their annual review.
But they hedge fuel.
 
Dtw757
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 47):
The southwest pay around 1.27$ for a gallon acoording to their annual review.

I would think you could add at least a dollar to that if not more for current Jet A prices
721,2,732,3,4,5,G,8,9,741,2,3,4,752,3,762,3,4,772,3,788,D93,5,M80,D10,M11,L10,100,AB6,319,20,21,332,3,346,388,146,CR2,7,
 
Boeing Nut
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RE: 787 Livery Limitation By Boeing?

Mon Aug 07, 2006 1:34 am

Quoting DTW757 (Reply 48):
Quoting Cobra27 (Reply 47):
The southwest pay around 1.27$ for a gallon acoording to their annual review.

I would think you could add at least a dollar to that if not more for current Jet A prices

I think pricing works differently for airlines than it does in the corporate/private arena. For example, in the latest Business and Commercial Aviation, they showed prices of Jet fuel in July 2006 ranging from $4.42 all the way up to $6.34 per gallon in the US. I severely doubt airlines are paying that much for theirs.

I'm sure someone knows how it works out there.
I'm not a real aeronautical engineer, I just play one on Airliners.net.

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