Will PIE Die And RSW Lose Big Time To TPA?

billreid · Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:06 am

The Florida west coast is highly competitive. What will occur next?

Is PIE a dying airport with SWA killing lowcost accross the bay?

With B6 and additional US service whats next for SRQ?

With highly increased rates and fees at RSW with the new terminal are the airlines willing to live with broader losses considering the low fares and spiralling costs at RSW.

Is TPA the huge winner with PIE losing so much service and RSW costs skyrocketing? Will SRQ catch up a little?

What do you think?

jetdeltamsy · Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:16 am

The area between Tampa and Naples is home to some of the wealthiest people on the West Coast of Florida.

RSW add convenience that these folks will pay for.

TPAnx · Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:26 am

I feel there's a role for PIE. Yes, it's lost service, and yes, TPA is just what...17 miles away across the bay? But the runway lengthening project should make it ideal for European charters..and we do get a lot a lot of European visitors. SRQ is a good drive from TPA. Waiting at TPA, I've talked with people who've hated the drive up, the parking, and the drive back to pick up relatives. Don't feel RSW is competition for TPA..the drive up 75 is just too much. (Have often wanted to pull off 75 to take a look at it..heard it's nice.)
Perhaps TIA should continue to serve as a mainline destination..PIE work to grab chater flights (Sanford and Orlando aren't in direct competition) and SRQ could benefit with "spoke" service from mainline hubs rather than O&D flights.
TPAnx

Jerseyguy · Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:42 am

RSW to TPA is 2hrs easy and with WN and B6 at RSW I think fares will be low enough (maybe not as low as TPA because of the increased costs at RSW), that people won't drive 2 hours to TPA up I-75.

TVNWZ · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:02 am

I think RSW will be fine. As that area of the state grows there is more than enough business to keep it busy. And as stated above, it is one of the wealthiest areas in the state...country.

The jokers in the deck are SRQ and PIE. I really can not see anything big for either. A flight here, a flight there, maybe. The plan to expand the runway at PIE is wishful thinking and ill advised. Is oversees charter traffic that big on the Gulf Coast? I don't see it. Sanford airport near Orlando is a different deal being closer to Disney and the Theme Parks.

sw733 · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:04 am

RSW has no worries...with Sanibel and Captiva attracting tourists from all over the world, the idea of them losing business on any big scale is not too realistic.

isitsafenow · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:22 am

Funny we are discussing this...RSW higher fees are being addressed by DL with smaller planes. In the past DL has run mostly 767 between RSW and ATL from the late fall to May. I was just researching DL in early NOV or early DEC between Michigan stations and RSW. DL is flying 757's between ATL and RSW. The traffic has always be there to warrant 767 but apparently the higher landing fees, which is set on aircraft weight is being offset by DL using a small 757 instead of the usually-the-past-10-years 767.
safe

phatfarmlines · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:22 am

Quoting TPAnx (Reply 2):
Perhaps TIA should continue to serve as a mainline destination..PIE work to grab chater flights

Exactly.

APFPilot1985 · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:27 am

RSW shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, it is a very different market, no one will fly into TPA instead of RSW unless the difference in fares is way beyond what it actually is.

CMHSRQ · Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:14 pm

PIE is expecting international flights from the UK this fall and winter by flywho. However in the future it will be extremely difficult for PIE to gain new service with the low fare competition just east at TPA and now just south at SRQ. Add in the high fuel costs and it makes new service next to impossible. Unless that Alliegent rumor happens.

SRQ is a 2 steps forward one step back airport. Last year AirTran started service as well as AA returning. Then ATA decided to not go ahead with its 15 planned flights to MDW. Also Southeast was planning SRQ flights, but they went chapter 7.

This year USAirways wins DOT DCA slots and JetBlue starts service. However I don't have a good feeling about AA returning.

SRQ's number are still well below what they were in 1997. The airport estimates that more than a million enplanements per year are lost to TPA.

RSW is an airport that continues to have record numbers of pax. There is plenty of low fare competition and the location is far enough away from other airports so that people are forced to use it or drive 2 hours to SRQ or FLL maybe 3 hours to TPA or PBI/MIA. RSW has more European flights than TPA

STT757 · Mon Aug 07, 2006 12:21 pm

PIE is a great little airport, used to fly into there all the time on PeoplExpress to visit my Grand Parents.

They should try to land an established LCC by wooing them away from TPA, also go for as much of the charter business as possible from Europe and Canada (Air Transat).

Humberside · Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:34 pm

Quoting BillReid (Thread starter):
Is PIE a dying airport with SWA killing lowcost accross the bay?

Allegiant could change all that. In time PIE could play a very similar role for the Tampa area as Sanford plays for the Orlando area

SHUPirate1 · Mon Aug 07, 2006 5:50 pm

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
The area between Tampa and Naples is home to some of the wealthiest people on the West Coast of Florida.

That's like saying the area between Bar Harbor and Key West has the best beaches in the US on the Atlantic Ocean...

bobnwa · Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:46 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
They should try to land an established LCC by wooing them away from TPA, also go for as much of the charter business as possible from Europe and Canada (Air Transat

PIE has been trying to woo the LCC's away from TPA for years with great incentives, without any success. They already have all the charter business from Canada to the bay area.

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 12):
That's like saying the area between Bar Harbor and Key West has the best beaches in the US on the Atlantic Ocean...

No it's not. Most of the west coast coast of Florida in not between Tampa and Naples.

RL757PVD · Mon Aug 07, 2006 9:10 pm

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 6):
DL is flying 757's between ATL and RSW. The traffic has always be there to warrant 767 but apparently the higher landing fees, which is set on aircraft weight is being offset by DL using a small 757 instead of the usually-the-past-10-years 767.

I doubt thats the RSW landing fees, thats more of the fact that DL has been using more 767s for INTL meaning the next biggest thing available is the 757, All FLA cities have much less wide bodies than they used to have.

All other issues aside, I dont see any Florida airport "loosing out" At the rate FLA is growing, everyone will be gaining, some just less than others.

billreid · Mon Aug 07, 2006 10:19 pm

Quoting Humberside (Reply 11):
Allegiant could change all that. In time PIE could play a very similar role for the Tampa area as Sanford plays for the Orlando area

Do you really think so? I believe Orlando is a destination because of all the amusement parks. Tampa and St.Petes isn't its just the nothern end of the gulf coast.

I am concerned, I heard on the radio today that St.Petes has one of the highest crime rates in the nation, very bad for tourism. Will this also have an impact on tourism.

Quoting Humberside (Reply 11):
Allegiant could change all that. In time PIE could play a very similar role for the Tampa area as Sanford plays for the Orlando area

I just don't agree that after the rollercoaster ride PIE has been through for the last decade that one can seriously think it could be the next Sanford. Then on the other hand I guess one could guess that SRQ could be the next FLL on the west coast with TPA becoming MIA.

Humberside · Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:09 am

If PIE gets G4 and if Flywho ever start flights, PIE could be a smaller scale version of SFB, just as TPA is a smaller scale version of MCO

ATA767 · Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:45 am

I wonder if they can get ATA to return!

IAHFLYR · Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting SW733 (Reply 5):
RSW has no worries...with Sanibel and Captiva attracting tourists from all over the world

Don't forget the Naples/Marco Island area either, no slouch in attracting folks to their little areas either.

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 8):
RSW shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, it is a very different market, no one will fly into TPA instead of RSW unless the difference in fares is way beyond what it actually is.

I agree with you completely, and the "WAY BEYOND" fare would have to be a huge dispairity in the fare for me to hop in a car from TPA, drive on I-75 in winter traffic to the southside of FMY or even out to Sanibel, take the RSW ride.

jetdeltamsy · Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:55 am

Quoting SHUPirate1 (Reply 12):
Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 1):
The area between Tampa and Naples is home to some of the wealthiest people on the West Coast of Florida.

That's like saying the area between Bar Harbor and Key West has the best beaches in the US on the Atlantic Ocean...

Your remark makes no sense to me. What did I say that was unclear.

The distance between TPA and APF is about 130 miles. BHB to EYW is over 1,500 miles.

My point is that there are a lot of very wealthy people living in that 130 mile zone I mentioned, many closer to the smaller and easier to use RSW than TPA. I think that even if fares were to increase to cover increased costs of the airlines, people from that area would continue to use RSW.

What was your point?

PennPal · Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:03 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 8):
RSW shouldn't even be mentioned in this argument, it is a very different market, no one will fly into TPA instead of RSW unless the difference in fares is way beyond what it actually is.

The fact of the matter is is that fares out of TPA are consistantly $50/$75 less than those out of RSW, so I regularly take the 95 minute drive up to Tampa than the 50 minute drive down to Ft Myers. I booked a flight to BUF earlier on Delta....$128.00 RT out of TPA, $210.00 out of RSW.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 10):
They should try to land an established LCC by wooing them away from TPA, also go for as much of the charter business as possible from Europe and Canada (Air Transat).

Didn't PIE just lose AirTransat??? Too bad...it's a great little airport, with low parking fees and little conjestion.

CMHSRQ · Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:52 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 20):
The fact of the matter is is that fares out of TPA are consistantly $50/$75 less than those out of RSW, so I regularly take the 95 minute drive up to Tampa than the 50 minute drive down to Ft Myers. I booked a flight to BUF earlier on Delta....$128.00 RT out of TPA, $210.00 out of RSW.

$128.00 talk about a great deal. I'm guessing WN was having a fare sale.

Did you check SRQ? If so what was that fare?

isitsafenow · Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:55 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 19):

JETDELTAMSY is correct. I can back him up with the statement referring to wealth in the Naples-Fort Myers area and dont forget Marco Island.
To muck this up even more, I sometime use FLL and drive over to Naples.
From FLL to my condo in East Naples(no wealth there),non-FLL rushhour, is one hour and 15 minutes, much faster then TPA to Naples which is close to 2hr 30 minutes. I have driven that too, a few times.
safe

APFPilot1985 · Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 20):
The fact of the matter is is that fares out of TPA are consistantly $50/$75 less than those out of RSW, so I regularly take the 95 minute drive up to Tampa than the 50 minute drive down to Ft Myers. I booked a flight to BUF earlier on Delta....$128.00 RT out of TPA, $210.00 out of RSW.

I go to buffalo multiple times a year for family and other stuff, I almost always fly out of RSW because the difference is so minimal, and usually if booked far enough in advance less to fly out of RSW.

PennPal · Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:16 am

Quoting CMHSRQ (Reply 21):
$128.00 talk about a great deal. I'm guessing WN was having a fare sale.

Did you check SRQ? If so what was that fare?

Yes, I always check RSW/SRQ/TPA...only once did I find SRQ with the lowest fare. Don't really remember what the rate was out of SRQ was, but I'm thinking it was in the $248.00 range. Sarasota usually has the highest of the 3 airports. (Although I booked another flight to BUF out of SRQ next month since I'm using my Delta SkyMiles, and that airport had the most appealing itinerary...

sw733 · Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 8):
no one will fly into TPA instead of RSW unless the difference in fares is way beyond what it actually is.

I've done it...flew into TPA on WN instead of RSW on ATA...fares weren't drastically different, but it worked out to being a tad of a savings driving from TPA out to Sanibel, and it was a nice chance to see a part of Florida that I hadn't before.

jmbweeboy · Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:05 am

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 22):

Isitsafe has it right, Fort Lauderdale is the biggest competitor
for passenger traffic at RSW, not Tampa!

Next time you are in one of the new mamoth parking garages at FLL,
notice the number of Lee and Collier County plates on parked vehicles.

Surely a better fare out of FLL might not make sense for just one
passenger, but when 2 or more are involved, can be appreciable.

Worldspan

727LOVER · Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:29 am

Quoting PennPal (Reply 20):
The fact of the matter is is that fares out of TPA are consistantly $50/$75 less than those out of RSW, so I regularly take the 95 minute drive up to Tampa than the 50 minute drive down to Ft Myers. I booked a flight to BUF earlier on Delta....$128.00 RT out of TPA, $210.00 out of RSW.

Paying for gas and parking at TPA, did you really save that much?

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 22):
JETDELTAMSY is correct. I can back him up with the statement referring to wealth in the Naples-Fort Myers area and dont forget Marco Island.

What??!!! You think there's no wealth in the Sarasota area?

Did RSW pass JAX in pax totals?

Did FLL pass TPA? Which is weird, cause I think TPA still has more flights.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 15):
Then on the other hand I guess one could guess that SRQ could be the next FLL on the west coast with TPA becoming MIA.

You know, you can't say things like this.....HE will get you. wink

jetdeltamsy · Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:42 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 22):
JETDELTAMSY is correct. I can back him up with the statement referring to wealth in the Naples-Fort Myers area and dont forget Marco Island.

What??!!! You think there's no wealth in the Sarasota area?

While I don't have any official statistical information, i think the per capita wealth is MUCH higher the further south you go on the West side of Florida.

PennPal · Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:14 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
Paying for gas and parking at TPA, did you really save that much?

Well...to be honest...I get a company car and gas card, and since you also have to pay to park at RSW, the only additional fees I pay going to TPA are the $1.00 tolls to cross the Sunshine Skyway... blush

777STL · Tue Aug 08, 2006 12:25 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 27):
What??!!! You think there's no wealth in the Sarasota area?

Not like Naples, Marco Island or Fort Myers for that matter....

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 28):
While I don't have any official statistical information, i think the per capita wealth is MUCH higher the further south you go on the West side of Florida.

Wholeheartedly agree.

APFPilot1985 · Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:17 pm

I will agree with the idea that FLL is competition to RSW but only because of SK and the fact that it is much quicker to get to than TPA and the fares are sometimes very very cheap

billreid · Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:45 am

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 28):
While I don't have any official statistical information, i think the per capita wealth is MUCH higher the further south you go on the West side of Florida.

Actually the stats are as follows.
Naples #1
Sarasota #2
Bradenton #3 (Driven up by Lakewood Ranch and Longboat and Anna Maria)
Ft. Myers #4 (Would be higher but is a very wide area without a true core)
Clearwater #5
Tampa #6
St. Pete's #7 (explains the crime issue, unfortunately)

What is interesting is the demographics shift with the people relocating to Bradenton from St. Pete's and Tampa and commuting on I-75 and I-275 for work. The average house price is $100,000 above Tampa and ST.Pete meaning there is a huge disparity in disposable income. Very interesting trend with the change in fuel prices.

Who can afford to fly going forward and what is the value of a community?
Sarasota/Bradenton is becoming a high end suberb of the Tampa Bay area

Will PIE Die And RSW Lose Big Time To TPA?

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