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HALFA
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FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:23 am

In the on going soap opera involving American Samoa's Governor and Hawaiian Airlines, Ronnie Simpson, manager of the FAA's Airports District Office in Honolulu has sent Governor Togiola Tulafono a warning not to implement his recent executive order demanding Hawaiian's withdrawal from the U.S. territory.
In the governors weekly address to his people, he responded in part by saying that he has the ultimate authority over American Samoa's borders and this dispute is outside the jurisdiction of the FAA.
This is getting real interesting.
Article here:

http://www.pacificmagazine.net/pina/pinadefault2.php?urlpinaid=23912

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HALFA
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HPRamper
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:29 am

I guess the big question is: Does he have this authority?

I've heard repeatedly that HA charges very high fares from PPG, but what's better, having HA service or no HA service? Obviously losing even an expensive air option would hurt interests rather than help them. Instead of trying to boot HA, why not try to attract other, cheaper airline service via incentives that may help to convince HA to voluntarily lower fares to compete?
 
ikramerica
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
Does he have this authority?

No.

He fancies himself a banana republic dictator it would seem.

I say HA should pull out for 1 month with an open letter advertisement in the newspaper explaining why. See how quickly the people turn on this man...
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MCOflyer
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
No.

He fancies himself a banana republic dictator it would seem.

I say HA should pull out for 1 month with an open letter advertisement in the newspaper explaining why. See how quickly the people turn on this man...

Agreed. I would laugh my butt off on this reaction by the American Samoan gov.

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Bicoastal
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 10:54 am

What are the other Samoa-HNL options? How high/low are their fares?
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socal
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:00 am

I hope the Governor gets jailed, if he continues to think he can do what ever he wants. I think there are 2 FBI agents on the island.
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 4):
What are the other Samoa-HNL options?

There are none, I believe.
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HALFA
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 4):
What are the other Samoa-HNL options?

Other options include:
PPG-APW-LAX-HNL (Tuesdays only)
PPG-APW-AKL-HNL ( 3 days per week)
PPG-APW-SYD-HNL
PPG-APW-NAN-HNL
PPG-APW-NAN-LAX-HNL

As you can see, the other "options" are not very good!

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KingAir200
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:34 am

If tough guy governor does hypothetically get HA to leave, or they pull out on their own, who is all a of a sudden going to jump in to fill the void? Maybe they should figure that out first.
 
Cadet57
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:39 am

Where is APW>?



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jetdeltamsy
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:53 am

What a joke. American Samoa is an "unorganized territory" under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Department of Interior.

The Governor's authority, like that of the Governor's of any state or territory, does not supersede Federal authority.

The guy is a joke. If he hates Hawaiian, he needs to attract some competition.

He has absolutely no authority to force Hawaiian to cease operations simply because he doesn't like the way they treat Samoans.

What a joke.
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HALFA
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:59 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 9):
Where is APW>?

Apia, Samoa. It is the capital of the independant nation of Samoa and formerly known as Western Samoa so it was called APW as in Apia, Western Samoa.


http://www.samoa.islands-travel.com/map.html

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brons2
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:04 pm

How far of a swim is it from PPG to APW?
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PanAm747
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 1:04 pm

Quote:
How far of a swim is it from PPG to APW?

91 miles (83 nm).

Logistics question - so the good governor decides to ban HA from PPG. Is he going to personally block the runway?
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centrair
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:02 pm

So this is the new destination for B6 then?  Silly
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mariner
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:10 pm

Quoting Centrair (Reply 14):
So this is the new destination for B6 then?  

 checkmark 

Funny. That's funny.

 Smile

cheers

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ikramerica
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:41 pm

Nobody would pick up the slack if HA pulled out, because who'd want to deal with this guy? CoMike? No way. AQ?

Can a 738 make the trip, and if so, do they have any to spare, and if so, will they treat Samoans better than HA? Will the price be lower?

NW? UA? AA? DL? Not likely.

Maybe ATA could be persuaded once a week?

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 13):
Is he going to personally block the runway?

Well, it would solve the problem on the first day, wouldn't it?  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N1120A
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 1):
I guess the big question is: Does he have this authority?

No

Quoting HALFA (Reply 7):
Other options include:
PPG-APW-LAX-HNL (Tuesdays only)
PPG-APW-AKL-HNL ( 3 days per week)
PPG-APW-SYD-HNL
PPG-APW-NAN-HNL
PPG-APW-NAN-LAX-HNL

As you can see, the other "options" are not very good!

Actually, those aren't options. They can't be sold as part of a through journey (island hopper and long haul on one ticket) and if the FAA investigates, if the intent of the passengers is domestic O&D (which it would be), ANZ could be fined big time similarly to how Asiana was with the Saipan fiasco.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Can a 738 make the trip, and if so, do they have any to spare, and if so, will they treat Samoans better than HA? Will the price be lower?

Yes it can and given the size of CO's order backlog, plus their recent 739ER order, they should have no problem sending a couple more over to Air Mike. I don't think the treatment would be any better as HA is a first rate airline and the price would likely have to be higher given that HA uses an aircraft with a significantly lower CASM.
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vxg
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 3:57 pm

Out of curiousity is the control tower at PPG manned by FAA personnel? Or is it one of those "non federal" contract towers? Who provides approach control services?

If its an FAA controlled tower there is no way the governor could legally block the runway or deny a landing clearance.

- VxG

PS - this is such a sorry story. I travelled to PPG, APW and several places in the region during the late 70's and early 80's. This is such a beautiful part of the world and its sad to see stupid things like this tarnish its image.

[Edited 2006-08-09 08:59:41]
 
ikramerica
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:01 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Yes it can and given the size of CO's order backlog, plus their recent 739ER order, they should have no problem sending a couple more over to Air Mike. I don't think the treatment would be any better as HA is a first rate airline and the price would likely have to be higher given that HA uses an aircraft with a significantly lower CASM.

I was actually asking this in regard to the AQ 73Gs, making the mistake of saying 738.

I would assume CO would send a 767 if they were to fly the route, and do it once a week.

As for the treatment, that statement was tongue in cheek, as I am sure HA treats the Samoans fine. The other threads about his demands were hilarious.

I've flown HA and I found it to be no better or worse than other airlines, so can't see how sending anyone else to APW would please this idiot...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
N1120A
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:12 pm

Quoting Vxg (Reply 18):
Out of curiousity is the control tower at PPG manned by FAA personnel? Or is it one of those "non federal" contract towers? Who provides approach control services?

PPG has no control tower.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
I was actually asking this in regard to the AQ 73Gs, making the mistake of saying 738.

A 73G has more than enough range

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
I would assume CO would send a 767 if they were to fly the route, and do it once a week.

Business/First service might be a bit much for the route.
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Gemuser
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:25 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 17):
Actually, those aren't options. They can't be sold as part of a through journey (island hopper and long haul on one ticket) and if the FAA investigates, if the intent of the passengers is domestic O&D (which it would be), ANZ could be fined big time similarly to how Asiana was with the Saipan fiasco.

In the circumstances I strongly doubt it! If did come down to the US finning NZ (which I strongly doubt) I would hate to running a US company in NZ, as I will be paying any fines AirNZ gets!

Gemuser
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N1120A
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 21):
In the circumstances I strongly doubt it! If did come down to the US finning NZ (which I strongly doubt) I would hate to running a US company in NZ, as I will be paying any fines AirNZ gets!

This is not an unprecedented thing. Air Mike and NW successfully had OZ fined millions for transiting PAX from Saipan to the mainland.
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Gemuser
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:36 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
In the circumstances I strongly doubt it! If did come down to the US finning NZ (which I strongly doubt) I would hate to running a US company in NZ, as I will be paying any fines AirNZ gets!
This is not an unprecedented thing. Air Mike and NW successfully had OZ fined millions for transiting PAX from Saipan to the mainland.

Only because the Koeran government held still for it, undoubtly in the "greater national intrest". I would not bet that the Kiwi government would, after all the "claw back" laws, AFAIK are still in place in most western countries. The Kiwis would seem to be a very good candiate to use them!

Gemuser
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N1120A
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 4:58 pm

Quoting Gemuser (Reply 23):
Only because the Koeran government held still for it, undoubtly in the "greater national intrest". I would not bet that the Kiwi government would, after all the "claw back" laws, AFAIK are still in place in most western countries. The Kiwis would seem to be a very good candiate to use them!

I doubt the Kiwi's would start a pissing contest over such a thing.
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777fan
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 5:01 pm

So, now that the Governor has agreed to meet with HA officials, I think it's time to ask the question:

Will HA fly down to PPG to meet with him or would he route himself from PPG-APW-SYD-HNL to make a point?! I'm laughing my ass off just thinking him blowing $2500 of taxpayer money on a "business" trip!


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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:27 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
I doubt the Kiwi's would start a pissing contest over such a thing.

:D How many Kiwis do you know? Big grin

If you offend them, they are MAD bastards, no telling what they would do.

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bennett123
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 6:36 pm

If another airline applied for the right to operate to PPG, would they need FAA approval.
 
VEEREF
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 7:07 pm

Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 13):
Is he going to personally block the runway?

He'll just bring in Chicago Mayor Daley to bulldoze it in the mddle of the night!  bouncy 
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Motorhussy
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:01 pm

I think the Independent Sate of Samoa should stake a claim over the Unincorporated and Unorganized (not disorganized) Territory of American Samoa due to U.S. mainland neglect of their territory.

This will at least draw some attention to the fact that the former strategic outpost's airport and harbour need some further investment from their sponsor state. It may also draw attention to the fact that the Governor is either a crazy syphilitic or is genuinely trying to draw attention to the plight of a people and island group in a drastic state of economic and cultural decline...

Food for though
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LPLAspotter
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Wed Aug 09, 2006 11:36 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):
Can a 738 make the trip

Yes it can. Doesn't Air Pacific fly Nadi-HNL-YYV on the 738?

I have a solution: Let Air Mike fly the route for a few days and the Samoans will be begging HA to come back.

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RAPCON
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:18 am

Quoting Socal (Reply 5):
I think there are 2 FBI agents on the island.

One more than necessary to arrest this blowhard!

Quoting N1120A (Reply 24):
I doubt the Kiwi's would start a pissing contest over such a thing.

Maybe the Kiwi's can get Greenpeace to show up with some floating relic.....the USN always loves to provide extra demolition training!
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bobnwa
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 1:25 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
This is not an unprecedented thing. Air Mike and NW successfully had OZ fined millions for transiting PAX from Saipan to the mainland.

Please give the details of this. I'm not familiar with it.
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:30 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 32):
Please give the details of this. I'm not familiar with it.

I'm not familiar with it either, but it wouldn't surprise me one bit.

LPLAspotter
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:32 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
No.

He fancies himself a banana republic dictator it would seem.

I say HA should pull out for 1 month with an open letter advertisement in the newspaper explaining why. See how quickly the people turn on this man...

Hawaiian cannot pull out of the market unless there is a replacement carrier because American Somoa is an EAS route. They could file a 90-day suspension notice with the DOT, but if no carrier replaces them, the DOT can and likely will require them to continue to serve the route.

Having said that, there are some unique issues going on here, and I expect this situation to get much more interesting.
 
AirScoot
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:37 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 32):
Quoting N1120A (Reply 22):
This is not an unprecedented thing. Air Mike and NW successfully had OZ fined millions for transiting PAX from Saipan to the mainland.

Please give the details of this. I'm not familiar with it.

http://edition.cnn.com/2002/BUSINESS/asia/10/18/korea.asiana/

I don't think that OZ was the only one busted either.
 
TokyoNarita
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:50 am

I was wondering why there aren't any talks of government (federal or local) subsidizing the service if it's so important to the local public. Why wouldn't this be considered like a Essential Air Service (EAS) Wouldn't that keep the fares low? Hawaiian has got to make money. Fuel is expensive. Bringing Air Mic probably isn't going to bring the fares lower. This also makes me wonder about Air Mic's HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK route. How does Air Mic sustain the route? Granted there are some military traffic and cargo but are there any other financial insentives to operate this route?

TokyoNarita.

[Edited 2006-08-09 20:05:48]
 
KLM685
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Bobnwa (Reply 32):

Please give the details of this. I'm not familiar with it.

I agree I would like to know what happened as well for better understanding of what's in the discussion.
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SeeTheWorld
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:00 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 36):
was wondering why there isn't any talks of government (federal or local) subsidizing the service if it's so important to the local public. Why wouldn't this be considered like a Essential Air Service (EAS) Wouldn't that keep the fares low? Hawaiian has got to make money.

It is EAS, and I've heard that Hawaiian does make money on the route. Having said that, some speculate that the Governor may want HA to reduce fares to a level that's closer to breakeven or a slight loss and then have HA apply for a subsidy. Clearly, this wouldn't be in the spirit of the EAS program.

The fact is, this market is pretty small, and therefore the service is not daily, and it's a little on the expensive side. There's not much tourism, and in fact, more Samoans live in Hawaii than in American Samoa. That's what tends to happen in thin markets (i.e. small communities across the U.S.), and everyone wants lower fares and LCCs. I guess American Samoa is no different. They just have a bold Governor who's making some waves.
 
ForeverUnited
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:24 am

Completely ridiculous. It would be like the Mayor of Cordova saying he doesn't want Alaska Airlines to provide EAS service anymore because fares are too high. Fares are in fact high, but when your aircraft has enough capacity to make a sizable dent in the entire population of the community it serves, that's not a profit-equation. Why don't we just make it a complete welfare state, doing away with fares altogether?
 
LPLAspotter
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 36):
wonder about Air Mic's HNL-MAJ-KWA-KSA-PNI-TKK route. How does Air Mic sustain the route?

Through lots of avenues. During the compact that is renewed every 20 years the islands of Palau, FSM and Marshall islands are gauranteed air transportation. So, the Air Mike flights known as the island hoppers are highly subsidised. Also, the local government officials are given lots of stock in the company which gives them the insentive to prevent other carriers from coming in (Aloha for example). Funny how you're at Pohnpei's airport and you see senators getting on no problem at the last minute while everyone else gets bumped off. I guess they get so used to it by now that nobody really cares.

A good example was my trip to bali from LA last year. I paid quarter the airfare than I did when I left from Pohnpei even though it was only 4 hours away versus 22 hours away. Also, a stay in Guam was required for all passengers wishing to transit to further destinations such as YAP.

I could go on and on, but why bore you to death. CS's operation is rude and it stinks and nobody does anything about it.

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Indio66
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:09 am

We need to send in the Marines and take this guy out of office.
 
bennett123
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 4:14 am

Do'nt you think that that is a bit drastic.  Smile

How does someone become Gov. in the first place, presumably he must have been elected.
 
ha763
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:05 am

Aloha already tried flying HNL-PPG and it was a flight that had lower fares than HA and flew on days that HA didn't fly to PPG. The flight still had a low load factor despite all of this and they pulled out of the market.

Quoting TokyoNarita (Reply 36):
Bringing Air Mic probably isn't going to bring the fares lower.

No kidding. Just look at what they charge for a coach seat HNL-GUM on their website. $1250 one way! That's more than what a round trip to PPG on HA, which is $1067.50 will all taxes and fees.
 
N908AW
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PP

Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:09 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 16):

Well, it would solve the problem on the first day, wouldn't it? Wink

*Memory of first episode of LAX*

:shudders:
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aloha73g
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Ha763 (Reply 43):
Aloha already tried flying HNL-PPG and it was a flight that had lower fares than HA and flew on days that HA didn't fly to PPG. The flight still had a low load factor despite all of this and they pulled out of the market.

Aloha also allowed people to check in 3 or 4 bags for FREE near the end. It seemed they were trying to steal some traffic based on the higher bagage allowance.

Quoting LPLAspotter (Reply 40):
Funny how you're at Pohnpei's airport and you see senators getting on no problem at the last minute while everyone else gets bumped off. I guess they get so used to it by now that nobody really cares.

May not be true at Pohnpei, but at Chuuk my best friend's mom works for CO and her dad is a Senator so I'm sure he gets on any plane he wants  Wink

-Aloha!
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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 9:26 am

Quoting Aloha73G (Reply 45):
May not be true at Pohnpei, but at Chuuk my best friend's mom works for CO and her dad is a Senator so I'm sure he gets on any plane he wants

You bet. I've even seen heart patients get bumped off to make way for politicians. Really disgusting.

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RE: FAA Warns Samoan Gov. About Banning HA From PPG

Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:31 am

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 27):
If another airline applied for the right to operate to PPG, would they need FAA approval

Yes, they would need FAA approval.
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