User avatar
B742
Topic Author
Posts: 3593
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:48 am

El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Thu Aug 10, 2006 8:48 pm

As many of you already know, EL AL Isreali Airlines has a very tight security programme amoung its route network!

After todays developments in the UK, one UK official praised El Al for it's extremly good security programme. He said that El Al has extremly good security on flights and at airports and other airlines should follow and operate a similar sceme!

El Al seem to spend a lot of money on security, how does there programme compare to other airlines?

What type of security does Isreal/El Al provide to it's aircraft?

Here are some examples of security taken by El Al, they include a special vehichle watching the aircraft at the gate, and another showing a vechicle following the aicraft at the airport:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Peter Unmuth-VAP
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Vinckbooms Kenny



For more developments on today's plot in the UK see this post Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 2] (by Singapore_Air Aug 10 2006 in Civil Aviation)

Rob!  wave 
 
UAL4ever
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:45 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:26 am

El Al takes many extra precautions, more than any other airlines. First, they have special interviews with each passenger and then classify them according to threat level using racial profiling and other factors. All the checked luggag goes through decompression chambers and is x-rayed before every flight. On every El AL flight there ar at least six armed air marshals. Also, all pilots of El Al are former Israeli Air Force pilots and most, if not all, of the crew are former army as service is compulsory in Israel. On top of everything else all of El Al's planes are equipped with anti-missile systems.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3645
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:39 am

I havent dealt with El Al for five years, but what struck me most was at the time , when boarding an American aircraft as a mechanic, I had to be searched every time by a security guy, even when I was rushing around on a last minute AOG defect. But on El Al, the security guys had checked me out and never bothered me. ( But they stopped all strangers quickly!)
 
SurferX
Posts: 118
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:02 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:12 am

I remember when I flew from LHR to TLV...They made everyone go and identify their luggage, open it, help the inspector, and then close it up.

It was quite a sight to see, however, the guys that were the inspectors were very nice and very patient. The whole process took no more than 25-30 minutes.

After all that, they started letting everyone on the plane. Quite painless, indeed.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 14684
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:44 am

El Al's security focuses on the PERSON, not their luggage. As an example: in the mid-1980's they stopped a pregnant, Irish woman who's middle eastern boyfriend had sneaked on a bomb in her luggage at LHR because of clues in their pre-flight investigation. A good comparision is how a street experienced police officer can tell if someone on the street has a gun on them or has just committed a crime or is setting up to rob someone or a store.
They do through investigations of all papers, repeat the same questions to look for too much consistanticy or inconsistancy, and so on. Part of their tactic is intimidation to discourage one from even considering a terror act. For ElAl, that is a necessity.
 
aviateur
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 9:25 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:23 am

This article might be of interest (of course, I'm the author, but still)....

Tel Aviv airport and El Al. Is the Israeli model of security right for America?

http://www.salon.com/tech/col/smith/2006/06/09/askthepilot189/


- PS
Patrick Smith is an airline pilot, air travel columnist and author
 
Touchdown777
Posts: 116
Joined: Wed Jul 12, 2006 6:59 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 1):
using racial profiling

Something that you most likely will *not* see implemented in the US.




T7
Made in the USA
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:31 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 1):
First, they have special interviews with each passenger and then classify them according to threat level using racial profiling and other factors.

This isn't unique to LY anymore, it has been done for over 15 years for all flights on american registered aircraft departing from atleast Europe to the US.

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 1):
All the checked luggag goes through decompression chambers and is x-rayed before every flight.

I'd be very surprised if any luggage goes into a decompression chamber. Decompression chambers are used for cargo, the procedure would take to much time to apply on luggage, checked in at best 3 hours before departure.
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:00 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
I'd be very surprised if any luggage goes into a decompression chamber. Decompression chambers are used for cargo, the procedure would take to much time to apply on luggage, checked in at best 3 hours before departure.

If you travelled by El Al, you need to check in at least 3hr before departure. So that it is not suprised that the luggage need to go through decompression chamber. Also the security of El Al is done by El Al officials, not the local airport officials. But some countries local law is not allowing non local security offical to carry out weapon. I am wonder why the El Al security officals carry out security duties without breaking any local law.
 
piercey
Posts: 2188
Joined: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 1:19 pm

Quoting B742 (Thread starter):
He said that El Al has extremly good security on flights and at airports and other airlines should follow and operate a similar sceme!

I'm sorry, but I think this belongs under the no duh department. El Al is the national aviation symbol of one of the most attacked countries in the world by terrorism - Israel. They need to stress complete vigilance on all of their flights. Also, since it was formerly state owned, it makes EL Al a larger target.

Quoting CXCPA (Reply 8):
But some countries local law is not allowing non local security offical to carry out weapon. I am wonder why the El Al security officals carry out security duties without breaking any local law.

non-leathal weapons (Tasers) or an armed security official in the background just in case, IIRC.

btw, don't the Israeli airlines have a private terminal in MUC?
Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 2:17 pm

Quoting CXCPA (Reply 8):
If you travelled by El Al, you need to check in at least 3hr before departure.

I have stayed in Israel for 1,5 years and travelled several times between Israel and various European airports, I'm well aware of that.

Quoting CXCPA (Reply 8):
So that it is not suprised that the luggage need to go through decompression chamber.

I now for a fact, that this is not done at BRU (just one example). The decompression chamber is located at the cargo area, even with 3 hours it would be impossible to collect all luggage on time to send it trough the decompression chamber. LY operates their own X-ray machine at BRU, located at the end of rows 9 and 10 in the check in area IIRC. Passengers items are taken out of the bags and items are send separately tough their X-ray machine in presence off the passenger. Pax transitting from another flight onto LY are paged at the gate and taken downstairs to a room where they match their bags and where their bag will also be opened and the items are send separately trough their X-ray machine. From there the bag is escorted by LY to the aircraft.

Quoting CXCPA (Reply 8):
I am wonder why the El Al security officals carry out security duties without breaking any local law.

Armed police observe the LY check in, gate area and aircraft.

As for LY's sky marshalls, one possibility is that upon arriving of the aircraft, local airport officials take their weapons and return them when leaving. Another possibility is that the sky marshalls stay onboard and also work the return flight (for European flights ussually around 5 hours or less).
 
UAL4ever
Posts: 51
Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:45 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
I'd be very surprised if any luggage goes into a decompression chamber. Decompression chambers are used for cargo, the procedure would take to much time to apply on luggage, checked in at best 3 hours before departure.

It is definitely a fact that this is one fo El Al's security precautions. I know this for sure as for many years my Uncle was the head of security for El Al at Chicago O'Hare airport. For this reason El Al reccomends ariving at the airport 3 hours before check in.

Quoting Piercey (Reply 9):
btw, don't the Israeli airlines have a private terminal in MUC?

There is a seperate terminal at MUC for all flights to Israel. Also, recently I flew from ORD to TLV through FRA and before my flight from FRA to TLV we had to go to a special area and go through a second security screening.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:24 pm

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 11):
It is definitely a fact that this is one fo El Al's security precautions. I know this for sure as for many years my Uncle was the head of security for El Al at Chicago O'Hare airport. For this reason El Al reccomends ariving at the airport 3 hours before check in.

I'll take your word here, but it is slightly different than your original post.

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 1):
All the checked luggag goes through decompression chambers and is x-rayed before every flight.

This post seems to indicate that this is the case at every airport LY serves. However in your second post you're reffering to ORD.

I can't talk for ORD but I can talk with a 100% certainty about BRU, and it is NOT the case at BRU.

You might want to ask your uncle again, if it wasn't just for cargo.
 
bennett123
Posts: 9378
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:22 pm

Manni

I flew AA from LHR to JFK return, I have no recollection of profiling interviews.
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:05 pm

Quoting Bennett123 (Reply 13):
Manni

I flew AA from LHR to JFK return, I have no recollection of profiling interviews.

Have you been aproached by a security person when waiting in line to check in? I can say with 110% certainty that AA at LHR does interview their passengers. In case you journey started in LHR, you will most definitely have been asked security questions before checking in while you're documents are being checked aswell, perhaps it wasn't clear to you what it was all about. Note that the agents do not introduce it as 'we ask your cooperation for this profiling interview'.

In case you were in transfer at LHR, an agent at the gate will have asked you the questions and checked your documents.

Without exceptions to any person this is a requirement that has to be met before being allowed to check in. However the length of the interview might vary from person to person, depending on various factors.
 
BCAL
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:16 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:11 pm

You have to admire El Al for their security measures. I think that what makes them stand out from the crowd is that they employ their own security officers, probably all army-trained and professionals, and they do not rely on some security firm that employs civilians at a minimum basic wage and with little training. Obviously it is not appropriate to discuss specific security issues on a public forum but it is well-known that Israeli security officers check out all airports served by El Al and put forward recommendations to reduce the risk of an attack on their aircraft or their passengers, which is why El Al is normally allocated to the more secure area/gates of the airport. There are armed sky marshals on all their flights, and the questioning of passengers before they are allowed to board the aircraft is routine. El Al passengers are normally advised to check-in 4 hours before their flight to allow time for the extra security measures.

Security officers ‘guard’ El Al planes when they are parked at gates and at an airport where there is deemed to be a security risk for Israelis.

I read somewhere, probably on this site, about an episode involving plane spotters/photographers and the arrival/departure of an El Al aircraft. Someone said that they were photographing the arrivals/departures at an US airport and prior to the departure of the El Al 747, a saloon car with darkened windows pulled up next to the spectators’ corner. The car stayed until the El Al plane was well out of sight, and neither the driver nor passenger(s) got out. It was rumoured that the occupants of the car were Israeli security officers keeping an eye for suspicious activities or potential threats. Whilst this might have the undertones of a James Bond/John Le Carré spy-novel, with El Al it is probably true.

I often wonder if the security on Arkia (and any other Israeli airlines) is the same as El Al’s.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
 
TPAnx
Posts: 1007
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 4:53 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:56 pm

Years ago, a friend took a junket to Israel..all expenses paid by the government. He underwent the full monte" treatment leaving the country on El Al. ..even though he was a guest of the Israeli government.He's of Egyptian descent..and looks it. Now works for the FBI in Miami!!
TPAnx
I read the news today..oh boy
 
4xRuv
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:31 pm

What's the use of discussing all those details? to help those bastards? I know that this information is probably available on the net, but still, why help them? I'm sure every carrier that would like to get security help from LY will get it. There are some things better not discussed.
On another note, where are we going? Until when are we going to have those restriction of the handbags? I hope that not for long, people boarding with plastic bags is ridiculous, and won't prevent anything. Next thing they'd do is ask the pax to board naked.
Say airports around the world will want to adopt the security done in TLV, i'm not sure they are capable of that with the current buildings/equipment. There's a need for a whole lot of place for CT machines, for double queues (one for security and pass it for check-in), questioning areas, sniffing machines area etc... The new terminal in TLV had to be rebuilt before it was opened so that it would fit all those area. Plus, the terminals would be much more crowded as pax would have to be at the airport much earlier.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Sat Aug 12, 2006 7:49 am

Quoting 4xRuv (Reply 17):
What's the use of discussing all those details? to help those bastards? I know that this information is probably available on the net, but still, why help them?

I see your point, but honestly, there's so much plain wrong information in this thread so if a terrorist would use the information in this thread to plan an attack, he would be in for a big surprise. People have soooo many preconceived and wrong ideas about El Al and security (and about Israel in general), so people's comments are not a good source for accurate information.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
bennett123
Posts: 9378
Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2004 12:49 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Sat Aug 12, 2006 8:31 am

I was travelling from LHR.

I spoke to the woman on check in and can not remember any non standard questions.

I can say 120% that I was NOT approached by anyone else.
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Sat Aug 12, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 1):
On top of everything else all of El Al's planes are equipped with anti-missile systems.

I always found that interesting, I think their most intelligent measure of security.

...does LY make any effort to isolate their flights? example-at ORD, LY departs about 10 a.m. whereas normal international departures from ORD arrive and leave in the afternoon. when i spotted at ORD last week, LY was the only plane at the international terminal. I'm assuming this is done on purpose, right?

-Ryan
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
Skydrol
Posts: 1045
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2003 12:01 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Sat Aug 12, 2006 11:36 am

I would like to comment El Al's security personnel are polite, serious and professional. I cannot make the same three comments about the majority of the TSA and CATSA security people I have dealt with.

LY's security measures are also logical and not smoke and mirrors. You are allowed to take what you want aboard the aircraft, but carryons, laptop computers etc. are thoroughly checked by LY security between when you check in and while waiting in the departure lounge. Carry-on bags are only returned to the passengers right when boarding the aircraft (similar to duty-free).

You also get to eat a meal with metal utensils, even in Y.

I have gone through LY's security process many times and while it may be intense, it is logical.

This no liquids / laptops / ipods nonsense makes me mad. What the hell was all the carry-on bag and contents swabbing about for the last several years? Smoke and mirrors?



LD4
∙ ---{--« ∙ ----{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ---{--« ∙ --{--« ∙ --{-« ∙ ----{--« ∙
 
CXCPA
Posts: 356
Joined: Sat May 27, 2000 11:14 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:36 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 21):
I would like to comment El Al's security personnel are polite, serious and professional. I cannot make the same three comments about
the majority of the TSA and CATSA security people I have dealt with.

You are right, banning anything actually cannot prevent hijacking, may the terrorist can use their bare arms to fight with aircrew. Even the plastic fork and knife can hurt people. Now, keys are allowed, but keys are sharp object.... The terrorist still can do their job.......


However, many countries cannot afford such security procedure because it is not easy to find so much intelligent people to identify the risk of certain passenger. If all the passengers are normal people, even the knife used in kitchen does not cause any problem. So that the security measure should be focus on identify potential terrorist, not non-sense and useless measures.
 
4xRuv
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:56 am

Don't forget that one of the arrested men was a BAA employee (as reported in one of the brit channels). They could easily "forget" a "drink" at the toilet of the aircraft. Just use your imagination, there are 1001 ways to bring down a plane

[Edited 2006-08-13 17:57:03]
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:07 am

Israel is almost like a private club. If you have an Israeli vouch for you, you're in. Flying from Turkey to Tel Aviv, I was not allowed to board unless their security was able to call a friend in TA to verify I was ok (he also got me access to the Knesset without any ID to work, this was a few months before Gulf War I, driving around with my Israel issued gas mask and expired Atropine Auto Injector). Another arrival from Larnaca with my wife, we were interviewed first by immigration then a very professional and friendly anti narcotics agent. When my wife first arrived (from Brazil), they held her and called me 3 times on my cell to verify our "history" before releasing her. When leaving, they X-rayed everything including candy bars, and viewed 50 or so of the hundreds and hundreds of photos we took. I had a dead lap top that they kept and shipped later after inspection. I was also required to undress and they went through all of my clothes (meanwhile, a friend from Romania showed up late to leave on the same flight, he spent 40 minutes in the airport, it took us 3 hours).

They certainly make our TSA people look like clowns.

A semi funny story-At the office, when we got gas mask training, the female IDF soldier had a condom in her back pocket (the women IDF soldiers wear extremely tight custom fitted uniforms). We texted around the room to look at her back pocket and everyone was cracking up laughing, she was confused about the joke, but kept on plugging.

They are all fast, efficient and pretty friendly. The anti narcotic guy even laughed when I said that we spent the entire weekend totally drugged, between alcohol, Tylenol and coffee, that we don't remember drinking any water, we don't remember anything. They were looking for Ecstasy, not drunk network guys, he was intelligent enough to differentiate between professionalism, the threat and humor. Our TSA can't tell the difference between a camera battery grip and a gun. Oh yea, I feel safe on our carriers, clowns.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
rampart
Posts: 1800
Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 5:58 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting Touchdown777 (Reply 6):
Something that you most likely will *not* see implemented in the US.

Don't kid yourself. Not officially, but still...

-Rampart
 
Clipper1RTW
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 07, 2006 3:11 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 9:32 am

Regarding the post about being questioned at U.S. airports by Israeli/El Al security, that happened to me.

I was photographing the activity at LAX and the North complex in the alley between TBIT and Terminal 3 from the top of the parking structure. This was prior to 9/11 by the way. Gosh, to think back, I had binoculars, timetables, cameras and my radio to listen to ac/atc communications.

Can you imagine having that stuff today within an airport perimeter and not getting handcuffed immediately?

Anyway, a car drove up and two very polite men asked me several questions regarding why was I taking photos, was there any thing in particular that I was interested in? Luckily, I had my young kids with me and my aviation scrapbooks. They also saw my Marine Corps officer decal on my window. When they left, they wished me "happy spotting."

Soon the El Al flight came in and landed on 24L right where I had been aiming my cameras.

I have to say that they were extremely professional and courteous. I echo those above who despair in comparing these pros to our TSA and rent a cops.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 10:06 am

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 21):
This no liquids / laptops / ipods nonsense makes me mad.

It might make you mad but it certainly was not nonsense. The recent threat was specific. It involved the use of innocuous liquids carried on to ten different aircraft in drink bottles by more than one person where (presumably in the toilet) one of the terrorists would mix the liquids to form a far from innocuous explosive strong enough to blow a hole in the aircraft's fuselage when triggered with an electronic device disguised as a item of consumer electronics.
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting BCAL (Reply 15):
a saloon car with darkened windows pulled up next to the spectators’ corner. The car stayed until the El Al plane was well out of sight, and neither the driver nor passenger(s) got out.

In a perfect world, this is what security would be like. Present, yes. Visible, maybe even a little intimidating, OK, a necessary evil. But non-intrusive. Watch without interefering, without even wasting anyone's time with questions. Obviously there are plenty of reports of the El Al security at LAX not being that way (including Clipper1rtw's later response in this thread).

Quoting Manni (Reply 7):
it has been done for over 15 years for all flights on american registered aircraft departing from atleast Europe to the US.

They sometimes (not always) ask you the standard "did you pack your bags, have they been in your control" questions, which used to also be asked domestic US too, but in over 20 westbound Atlantic crossings, most on US-registered aircraft, I have only once been asked anything more than that, and that was on my very first crossing in 1996, and even that was just questions about what might be in my baggage, nothing about the purpose of my trip or anything. The interviewing I've heard El Al does is in another category alltogether. And, I know you were saying only US-registered flights, but it's worth noting that on VS, LH, and CityBird, not a single question ever.

Lest anyone think I'm anti-the El Al security, no way, I'm completely for their way of doing things, much better than not allowing bottles of water. The only barrier to doing things their way worldwide is there simply aren't enough quality security resources to pull it off, both on the ground and in the air.
7 hours aint long-haul
 
ckfred
Posts: 5179
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:34 pm

Quoting LTBEWR (Reply 4):
They do through investigations of all papers, repeat the same questions to look for too much consistanticy or inconsistancy, and so on. Part of their tactic is intimidation to discourage one from even considering a terror act. For ElAl, that is a necessity.

There was an article in the Chicago Tribune's travel section by a reporter who flew out of Tel Aviv for Cairo. While she felt that the security officers who questioned her took their time and did repeat some questions, she felt they were fair, professional in their manner, and very intelligent. She didn't feel that they were trying to trip her up, but simply were making sure that her answers about her travel plans were consistant.

One of the things that I have heard repeatedly during interviews with Israeli security experts on ways to improve U.S. security is to train people to converse with passengers. The reasoning is that many of Israel's security procedures would not work in the U.S., because of the volume of flights and passengers that the U.S. handles on a daily basis. While the U.S. needs to upgrade the technology used to screen passengers, baggage, and cargo, training people on interview techniques is a cost-effective means of upgrading security.

Obviously, there is ample opportunity for security persons to talk to passenger, whether it's waiting for a ticketing kiosk, checking baggage at a ticket counter, or waiting at security.

Moreover, anyone who works at an airport, be it security personnel, airline employees, or cashiers at bookstores and McDonald's, can be trained to converse with passengers and identify clues that could merit the attention of TSA and law enforcement.

For all the high technology that El Al and Israel use for aviation security, Israeli security experts still believe that passenger interviews are their best line of defense against terrorism

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
Have you been aproached by a security person when waiting in line to check in? I can say with 110% certainty that AA at LHR does interview their passengers. In case you journey started in LHR, you will most definitely have been asked security questions before checking in while you're documents are being checked aswell, perhaps it wasn't clear to you what it was all about. Note that the agents do not introduce it as 'we ask your cooperation for this profiling interview'.

Back in 1988, my father learned about the "passenger interview" at LHR. He was asked if his luggage had been in his control after packing his bags. My father responded that he had packed his bags at the hotel, went down for breakfast, then went back to his room to get his bags to check out.

That warrented an extra inspection of his bags, because, in theory, a hotel maid or maintenance person could have accessed his room and planted something in his bag.
 
3201
Posts: 813
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 4:16 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Mon Aug 14, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 29):
Back in 1988, my father learned about the "passenger interview" at LHR. He was asked if his luggage had been in his control after packing his bags.

For several years that question was asked before every domestic US flight too. In fact if I remember correctly the first auto-check-in kiosks made you answer yes/no to the three questions (although obviously they couldn't observe your body language while you were responding!).
7 hours aint long-haul
 
georgiaame
Posts: 1024
Joined: Sat Aug 13, 2005 7:55 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 12:19 am

Israel does not have the luxury of being beholden to "political correctness"

Their world renownd security centers around racial profiling. In other words, they tend to check out middle eastern men with Islamic names more rigorously than say, Swedish grandmothers who are pushing baby carts. I suspect they are less concerned with small tubes of toothpaste carried by Israeli nationals, which apparently is scaring the bejeezus out of the American TFA people these days. In other words, when your lives are on the line, you tend to use a little common sense, a commodity greatly lacking in both the US and Western Europe.

Twenty years ago, as I was being inspected leaving Tel Aviv, I was in a small booth with a security agent. My camera was examined, and I was asked to remove the lens. Then I was asked to shoot a picture. I first explained that the picture wouldn't come out without a lens, which was okay with security. Then I looked at the guy, and said frankly, that if I were carrying a bomb, and I pressed the shutter it could go off. The guy smiled, and said, yes, it could, and we would both be killed. But no one outside the booth would be, and the flight could proceed. With 20 years of hindsight, it was a foolish thing for me to say at the time, but he was right. And everyone's camera was inspected, but I wasn't strip searched after saying it, nor did the police arrive en-masse to cart me off to an interrogation center, and we had a smooth, completely uneventful flight.

It is called "zechel" (which very crudely translates to common sense, but means much more). It is a commodity very sorely lacking on the part of the Transportation Department. Here, when it comes down to Zechel or Political Correctness, PC will always win out. And our security is the poorer for it.
"Trust, but verify!" An old Russian proverb, quoted often by a modern American hero
 
BWI757
Posts: 392
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:58 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:33 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 31):
t is called "zechel" (which very crudely translates to common sense, but means much more).

Pronounced "say-chel", with the "ch" sound more of a gutteral sound from the back of the throat.
"Like stars across the sky, we were born to shine" - Andrea Bocelli
 
rjpieces
Posts: 6849
Joined: Mon Nov 24, 2003 8:58 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:08 am

The thing to remember about El Al security is that they are a very small airline...It would be impossible to have El Al-style security in the United States with literally thousands of planes flying tens of thousands of flights.

While we're on the topic though, I took a friend of mine to JFK the other day to check-in for her flight to TLV...El Al security took her bags and told her to return in an hour. When she returned, they took her behind some partition and she was there for a good fifteen minutes...Then they had a security agent escort her through TSA and to the gate.

Quoting Manni (Reply 14):
I can say with 110% certainty that AA at LHR does interview their passengers.

Yes, they did last week when I flew them...Does United do the same?
"Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon"
 
4xRuv
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2003 10:05 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting UAL4ever (Reply 11):
It is definitely a fact that this is one fo El Al's security precautions

You are partly right. It is done for precaution, but not for everyone, and if it is done, this person will get the luggage only a day or so later.
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:27 am

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 33):
The thing to remember about El Al security is that they are a very small airline...It would be impossible to have El Al-style security in the United States with literally thousands of planes flying tens of thousands of flights.

Let's remember folks that El Al flies about 40 daily flights vs. American carriers who fly over 20,000 per day. Also, it costs El Al and the Israeli government about $90 million USD per year to have this type of security. It could never be done here.
 
ckfred
Posts: 5179
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:18 pm

Here is one area where TSA is absolutely stupid.

In the U.K., checked bags are initially x-rayed. If there is nothing suspicious, then it continue to be sorted. If there is suspicion, then the bag goes through possibly two different CT scans. If the suspicion can't be resolved, then the bag is taken to a bomb-proof room. The bag's owner is found and required to open the bag.

If the owner can't be found, then the terminal is evacuated, and the bomb squad is called in to handle the situation.

In the U.S., TSA routinely opens bags in the terminal for inspection, if the CT scan shows something suspicious. A terrorist could put a bomb in his bag, tell the screener that his flight doesn't leave for 90 minutes, then disappear.

The bag is screened. Then during the hand search, the bag explodes, potentially harming hundreds of people, and rendering a terminal unusable for some time.

Does this sound like an agency that has thought out how to handle the screening of checked bags for explosives?
 
manni
Posts: 4049
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:48 am

RE: El Al Security Compared To Other Airlines...

Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:50 pm

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 33):
Yes, they did last week when I flew them...Does United do the same?

Yes they do, so does Delta, Continental, Northwest and US Airways.
Every single passenger on every flight from these airlines (including AA and UA) that leaves from Europe for the US will have been screened, regardless people claiming they were not being screened. This has been in effect since 1988 (I'm sure a bell rings why 1988, to most people).


Talking about LY styled interviews... At Ben Gurion all passengers for all flights leaving from this airport are all being interviewed as if they would when travelling on an LY flight.

I've recieved the full package on some ocassions, for example when travelling on Sabena and got trough with a minimum of questions on other occasions, also when travelling on LY. Often answering the same questions with the same answers... Curiously enough when you get an LY agent on a power trip you'll end up opening your bags and being checked if nothings been carried on your body, polite agents seem to be able to make the right judgement and decide not longer to waste your time after answering the basic questions...

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos