Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, hOMSaR

 
Cadet57
Topic Author
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:17 am

The other one is getting very long. Lets move discussion here.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
nkops
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:19 am

I'm glad this plot was sniffed out, however, to know this was going to happen within weeks, makes you wonder how close we are cutting it, and if everything was foiled.
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
kazzie
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:21 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Thread starter):
The other one is getting very long. Lets move discussion here.

Good Move..

Another day of fighting this tomorrow... who knows we may have a normal day or a total chaos day like today...
Bazinga punk.
 
kazzie
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
I'm glad this plot was sniffed out, however, to know this was going to happen within weeks, makes you wonder how close we are cutting it, and if everything was foiled.

And it also makes you wonder, how long will that risk be there...
Bazinga punk.
 
ctbarnes
Posts: 3269
Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2000 2:20 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:26 am

Hard to say, but CNN is now reporting an urgent search is underway for five suspects, three of whom have been identified. Three alleged ringleaders have also been identified.

Charles, SJ
The customer isn't a moron, she is your wife -David Ogilvy
 
nkops
Posts: 2228
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 10:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:27 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 3):
And it also makes you wonder, how long will that risk be there...

I think the risk is always going to be there, unfortunately!!! I'm not a political person, but I'm sure alot of it has to do with foreign relations and policies, etc.
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
Airplanepics
Posts: 2606
Joined: Fri Jun 27, 2003 4:12 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 2):

Another day of fighting this tomorrow... who knows we may have a normal day or a total chaos day like today...

Kaz, expect this to go on until late next week. At least that's what I got told in a briefing today.
Simon - London-Aviation.com
 
vr-hkg
Posts: 230
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 7:32 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:29 am

Why do people even believe what CNN, MSNBC, Fox, or even the BBC report on breaking news these days? They have no better information than most any member of the public does, they just parrot the same misinformation and put a "sky's falling" spin on it to boost ratings.

I'll be waiting a couple months before I form any opinions on whether there was any real plot here, or whether we're either chasing our tails on a nonexistent "threat" that has been misinterpreted, or actively misleading the public to keep the status quo.

One thing's for sure. Right now, we have zero idea what the real story is.
 
kazzie
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:32 am

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 6):
Kaz, expect this to go on until late next week. At least that's what I got told in a briefing today.

Our briefing was simple,

"Its not been like this since 9/11, thats the scale of what we are dealing with"
Bazinga punk.
 
DreamsUnited
Posts: 239
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:44 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:38 am

Quoting Kazzie (Reply 8):
"Its not been like this since 9/11, thats the scale of what we are dealing with"

That is absolutely true! The Terror Alert hasn't been this high since 9/11 happened, I don't trust the news or the government for that matter but I think that this was most definitatly a real threat.
Do not abort a takeoff because a cockpit window pops open!
 
ORDTerminal1
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 3:35 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:42 am

When will the public be allowed to bring their toiletries back on the aircraft? I'm assuming that the technology that is implemented for scanning checked baggage will soon be used for carry-on, but when?
717, 727, 732,733, 734, 735, 738, 742, 744, 752, 763, 319, 320, 340, F100
 
carduelis
Posts: 1388
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2001 8:24 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting VR-HKG (Reply 7):
One thing's for sure. Right now, we have zero idea what the real story is

My feelings exactly. Attached is a piece from me, lifted from another thread.

Most, if not all, BA long haul flights due to land at LHR actually did land today.

This story sounds a bit like the tale of hordes of 'weapons of mass destruction' that could be launched within 45 minutes, which later started an illegal war.

There are even quotes from top US government people mentioning:- 'Islamic terrorists' and 'similar to Al Quaeda' etc.

So far, all that has been advised by the UK Police, the Home Secretary, and the Transport Minister, is that 21 people have been arrested.

They all preceded their comments with the statement that what they said was all that they could, and only that information should be reported as given, so as not to give rise to innuendo or false information which may intrude in any later legal trials.

Let's stick to facts.


Since my original post, according to the BA website, most of the LHR to USA flights all departed with only a few cancellations to destinations which have more than one service a day. All long haul flights elsewhere appear to have gone, or are due to go this evening.
Per Ardua ad Astra! ........ Honi Soit Qui Mal y Pense!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19793
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:42 am

Quoting Kmh1956 (Reply 228):
After reading all the posts in this thread and the first, I felt compelled to comment.
I take terrorist plots VERY personally....how DARE these people feel that they can blow up passenger jets full of innocent men, women and children! Members of my family or friends could be on those flights...damn straight I take it personally....and very seriously. So when I read threads about how inconvenienced some folks will be because they're going to be delayed, or they can't take their too-expensive camera on board the aircraft with them, I take that personally too. What you're saying then is that your inconvenience or your too-expensive camera equipment is more important to you than the safety of the hundreds of souls on board those aircraft. I could have been one of them...a parent of one child, a daughter, a friend and an employee...I could get blown up, but God forbid your camera gets a ding in it!!
Cameras are replaceable....people are not.....
I'd rather be inconvenienced, thanks, and take a cheapo camera with me....and yes, it IS better than being blow up.

Nobody is disputing that being blown up is a suboptimal outcome.

However, a lot of businesses involve flying people around with electronic equipment. Without radically changing the way these companies do business, there is no way around that. Putting the electronics in the hold is not a good solution either unless insurance policies change dramatically too. Need I mention that the cost of doing business will rise quite a bit?

Still better than being blown up, but life is a calculated risk. There is no way to be 100% safe. If we had to get on the plane naked I have no doubt some terrorist will eventually figure out a way to implant a bomb and blow himself up.

These measures are essentially trying to plug holes in the security system, which in the vast majority of places is disgracefully flawed.

Some people have seen this coming for decades:
Ben Gurion Airport has a lab in the airport so that they can quickly test fluids. The carry out hand searches of luggage and body searches. They question passengers. They do random checks. These measures, implemented in the rest of the world, would make flying much safer than a blanket laptop/camera ban.

But nooo. Let's "do something" instead of listening to the security experts 5 years ago and implementing real security as opposed to this BS.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2174
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:05 am

Quoting Nkops (Reply 1):
I'm glad this plot was sniffed out, however, to know this was going to happen within weeks, makes you wonder how close we are cutting it, and if everything was foiled.

Creditable reports indicate that the trigger for putting the hammer down now was that these suspects apparently started to purchase tickets. The Brits indicated they wanted to wait longer and possibly roll up more of the network, but they really no longer had a choice.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 18):
Creditable reports indicate that the trigger for putting the hammer down now was that these suspects apparently started to purchase tickets. The Brits indicated they wanted to wait longer and possibly roll up more of the network, but they really no longer had a choice.

I'm not in the intel or law enforcement business but couldn't the authorities have waited for all the suspects to leave he airport and then arrest them with teh goods as they walked out their front door?
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:12 am

So if any electronics (Laptop, Ipod, Cellohone, etc.) get damaged in the cargo hold, assuming flights end up leaving, who is responsible? Airline or gov't?

Fox News says electronics are banned, but did not specify country, I'll keep watching for clarification.
I love ASO!
 
kazzie
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 21):
So if any electronics (Laptop, Ipod, Cellohone, etc.) get damaged in the cargo hold, assuming flights end up leaving, who is responsible? Airline or gov't?

Fox News says electronics are banned, but did not specify country, I'll keep watching for clarification.

In the current situation...

And damages done then then airline WILL take responsibility, And all UK flights are not allowing ANY electrical equipment, we now even have to include that in the security questions.
Bazinga punk.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 21):
Fox News says electronics are banned, but did not specify country, I'll keep watching for clarification.

I'm trying to figure this out too. I know for certain they're banned on US-UK flights, along with pretty much everything else. But I'm flying on Saturday and would like to know whether or not I can bring my cell phone and digital camera onboard with me. Frankly, I can't get too excited about checking either; the cell because I'll need it to keep the family updated on delays and arrival times, etc. and my camera from the standpoint of it being stolen, yet alone being able to shoot pictures.


***BTW, new to the forum today.  

[Edited 2006-08-10 21:16:23]

[Edited 2006-08-10 21:18:00]
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:42 am

I am going to fly to UK (LHR) tomorrow. However, I am a diabetic and I use an insulin infusion pump, I cannot bear a 12 hour flight without my infusion pump, which is a battery powered device that carries a liquid medicine (insulin). In addition, my insulin infusion pump works together with a sensor for the Continuous Glucose Monitoring, which continuously transfer data to the infusion pump by radio frequency (this device is permitted on board (FAA allowed), I already took several planes using it).

The current emergency procedures in place in the UK does not allow boarding carrying liquid medicines, battery powered devices and radio frequency devices, how am I going to do with my insulin infusion pump and the Continuous Glucose Monitoring device?

I appreciate your answers.
 
kazzie
Posts: 1655
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:09 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 38):
I am going to fly to UK (LHR) tomorrow. However, I am a diabetic and I use an insulin infusion pump, I cannot bear a 12 hour flight without my infusion pump, which is a battery powered device that carries a liquid medicine (insulin). In addition, my insulin infusion pump works together with a sensor for the Continuous Glucose Monitoring, which continuously transfer data to the infusion pump by radio frequency (this device is permitted on board (FAA allowed), I already took several planes using it).

The current emergency procedures in place in the UK does not allow boarding carrying liquid medicines, battery powered devices and radio frequency devices, how am I going to do with my insulin infusion pump and the Continuous Glucose Monitoring device?

I appreciate your answers.

You will be allowed to take it, Just have some proof that you need it like a doctors note or something just in case, But we have been informed Medical stuff that is essential for the flight may be taken on board.
Bazinga punk.
 
aseem
Posts: 1971
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:39 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:46 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 38):
The current emergency procedures in place in the UK does not allow boarding carrying liquid medicines, battery powered devices and radio frequency devices, how am I going to do with my insulin infusion pump and the Continuous Glucose Monitoring device?

Lets take the example of feeding bottles for infants. They were asking mothers to feed their kid with the bottle during security check. Maybe they'll ask you to take an extra dose in front of them to convince everything is okay.
Anyway, it shall be in interesting case for all of us. Please do let us know your experiences.
rgds
VT-ASJ
ala re ala, VT-ALA ala
 
Longhornmaniac
Posts: 3136
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:33 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 38):
I am going to fly to UK (LHR) tomorrow. However, I am a diabetic and I use an insulin infusion pump, I cannot bear a 12 hour flight without my infusion pump, which is a battery powered device that carries a liquid medicine (insulin). In addition, my insulin infusion pump works together with a sensor for the Continuous Glucose Monitoring, which continuously transfer data to the infusion pump by radio frequency (this device is permitted on board (FAA allowed), I already took several planes using it).

The current emergency procedures in place in the UK does not allow boarding carrying liquid medicines, battery powered devices and radio frequency devices, how am I going to do with my insulin infusion pump and the Continuous Glucose Monitoring device?

I appreciate your answers.

I would suggest contacting the airline, and a doctors note definately couldn't hurt, either. I wouldn't be surprised at all if, because yours is a special case, and you need it, they'll let it on with the proper documentation, and probably a special search of the equipment.

Good luck, and have a safe trip.  Smile

Cheers,
Cameron
Cheers,
Cameron
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Jrosa (Reply 38):
I am going to fly to UK (LHR) tomorrow. However, I am a diabetic and I use an insulin infusion pump, I cannot bear a 12 hour flight without my infusion pump, which is a battery powered device that carries a liquid medicine (insulin). In addition, my insulin infusion pump works together with a sensor for the Continuous Glucose Monitoring, which continuously transfer data to the infusion pump by radio frequency (this device is permitted on board (FAA allowed), I already took several planes using it).

The current emergency procedures in place in the UK does not allow boarding carrying liquid medicines, battery powered devices and radio frequency devices, how am I going to do with my insulin infusion pump and the Continuous Glucose Monitoring device?

I appreciate your answers.

I think that's a hard one but my recommendation is to check with your carrier both going and returning. I don't know if there's any restrictions leaving Brzil going to the UK (again checkwith the carrier/airport) but I wold also get a letter from your doctor as soon as possible explaining our condition andthe need for your battery operated equipement and take it with you. There aren't any restrictions from what I've read on taking insuline on board but the batter operated equipement might be a problem. Also check with your doctor to see if there's any alternatives to injecting the insuline and monitoring the glucose levels.

[Edited 2006-08-10 21:50:25]
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:50 am

I believe there was some meat to today's arrests and today's security alert.

Wasn't the leader of Iran casually caught mentioning that the world had better watch out on August 22nd? That is 12 days from now, possibly the right timing for the perpetrators of today's alert to carry out their deadly mission. Scotland Yard hinted that they were not aware of any threat today but can't be 100% sure, I guess.

Let's hope that the tightened security today will be sufficient to thwart any future attacks, especially of the magnitude Scotland Yard was discussing.
None shall pass!!!!
 
airfrnt
Posts: 2174
Joined: Fri Jul 02, 2004 2:05 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 4:59 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 19):

I'm not in the intel or law enforcement business but couldn't the authorities have waited for all the suspects to leave he airport and then arrest them with teh goods as they walked out their front door?

What if they don't catch them? Isn't it better to blow the plan up before, rather then them blowing up the plane if you miss someone?
 
jrosa
Posts: 351
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:06 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:37 am

I would like to thank very much Kazzie, Aseem, Longhornmaniac, and NYC777 for their prompt answers, I will check with BA not only boarding rules and restrictions but also the possibility to postpone the trip.

I am really considering the possibility of taking some time letting things calm down a little before a week off in UK. I do not want to be bored by all this during my vacations.
 
garnetpalmetto
Posts: 5352
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 1:38 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 5:41 am

Hey all,
As I've had to delete a few posts, let me interject a few things here.

1. Please keep the discussion cenetered around this plot and its ramifications for air travel. Posts addressing the wider questions of terrorism, the media, and politics, should be reserved for the Non-Aviation Forum.

2. I realize that this is a hot-button topic, but personal attacks, racism, and blanket statements condemning an entire ethnic group, nationality, or religion will not be tolerated. Any users making such statements will, at the minimum, see their posts deleted.

That being said, happy posting.
South Carolina - too small to be its own country, too big to be a mental asylum.
 
Continental
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:01 am

CNN says that they planned to make "explosive cocktails" which included MP3 players and sports drinks. That sounds ridiculous!!
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19793
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:07 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 27):
CNN says that they planned to make "explosive cocktails" which included MP3 players and sports drinks. That sounds ridiculous!!

I can think of several flammable and explosive fluids that look like drinks. Lighter fluid for one. Then you could build a detonator into the MP3 player.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 28):
Quoting Continental (Reply 27):
CNN says that they planned to make "explosive cocktails" which included MP3 players and sports drinks. That sounds ridiculous!!

I can think of several flammable and explosive fluids that look like drinks. Lighter fluid for one. Then you could build a detonator into the MP3 player.

Well, you'd like to think if someone had lighter fluid in a water bottle, the sensors/sniffers in the scanner would catch this. Otherwise, why is this issue only being addressed now? You would also like to think the security screeners would be able to see the detonator placed in the MP3 player using the X-ray scanner.

Seems to me the simplest solution is to send the electronic device through the x-ray machine, then have the owner turn it on and operate it in some form to make sure the device performs the function for which it was designed.
The same could be said with fluids. Make the owner drink from each of the bottles. Would be kind of funny seeing someone drink lighter fluid try to do with it straight face.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
Manta
Posts: 64
Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:06 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:22 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 17):
Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 21):
Fox News says electronics are banned, but did not specify country, I'll keep watching for clarification.

I'm trying to figure this out too. I know for certain they're banned on US-UK flights, along with pretty much everything else. But I'm flying on Saturday and would like to know whether or not I can bring my cell phone and digital camera onboard with me. Frankly, I can't get too excited about checking either; the cell because I'll need it to keep the family updated on delays and arrival times, etc. and my camera from the standpoint of it being stolen, yet alone being able to shoot pictures.

From the TSA website: http://www.tsa.gov/press/where_we_stand/security_measures.shtm

Media have also reported that laptops, cell phones and electronic items are no longer allowed. Is that true.

No. TSA continues to allow laptop computers, cell phones and other electronic items.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:26 am

Quoting Manta (Reply 30):
From the TSA website: http://www.tsa.gov/press/where_we_stand/security_measures.shtm

Media have also reported that laptops, cell phones and electronic items are no longer allowed. Is that true.

No. TSA continues to allow laptop computers, cell phones and other electronic items.

Thanks for the link. Tried calling both TSA and Delta today and didn't get any good answers. The link did answer my questions though.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
CcrlR
Posts: 2195
Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2001 9:24 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:27 am

Quoting Garnetpalmetto (Reply 26):
1. Please keep the discussion cenetered around this plot and its ramifications for air travel.

(I'll start with something related to aviation.)
Anyone use the flight tracking to track the flights that left LHR before and after this was implemented? CNN has done it several times(and goofed up with some of the airlines and the arrival airports)
"He was right, it is a screaming metal deathtrap!"-Cosmo (from the Fairly Oddparents)
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19793
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 29):
Well, you'd like to think if someone had lighter fluid in a water bottle, the sensors/sniffers in the scanner would catch this. Otherwise, why is this issue only being addressed now? You would also like to think the security screeners would be able to see the detonator placed in the MP3 player using the X-ray scanner.

Seems to me the simplest solution is to send the electronic device through the x-ray machine, then have the owner turn it on and operate it in some form to make sure the device performs the function for which it was designed.
The same could be said with fluids. Make the owner drink from each of the bottles. Would be kind of funny seeing someone drink lighter fluid try to do with it straight face.

I'm not disagreeing and I think all that stuff sounds good. But it's kinda hard to drink toiletries  Wink
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:32 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 33):
I'm not disagreeing and I think all that stuff sounds good. But it's kinda hard to drink toiletries

You're not supposed to drink that stuff? That explains.....eh, no comment.  Wink
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
cozmoose
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:12 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 6:32 am

Terrorists were planning "dry run" within two days.
http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/08/10/D8JDP19G0.html
 
Continental
Posts: 5223
Joined: Sun Jun 25, 2000 3:46 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 29):
Seems to me the simplest solution is to send the electronic device through the x-ray machine, then have the owner turn it on and operate it in some form to make sure the device performs the function for which it was designed.

This is what they do in Brussels for all flights going to the US. I noticed this last August. They made me turn on my cell phone, camera and ipod to show them that they perform the functions that they were designed to do.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Continental (Reply 36):
They made me turn on my cell phone, camera and ipod to show them that they perform the functions that they were designed to do.

What would happen if my cellphone failed to work because the batteries were dead (something that frequently happens to me when I forget to recharge it... and recharging it abroad is a pain in the butt!) Would I be treated as a terrorist?
None shall pass!!!!
 
standby87
Posts: 405
Joined: Tue Jul 03, 2001 2:33 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:23 am

I echo others who have said "I hope the security forces have got it right".
I really really hope they have

Recent history of security agency "cock-ups":

- killing a Brazilian electrician in London
- the Forest Gate affair
- the innocent Kurds arrested in Manchester
- 45 minute WMD in Baghdad

doesn't bode well.

I know there's people who want to kill you and want to kill me.
Let's hope the right ones have been caught.
Else our industry will have suffered for nothing.
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:30 am

considering this plot was sniffed out, it says alot about our airport's security systems-one being, they work. thank you security...

-Ryan
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3625
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:34 am

Quoting Standby87 (Reply 38):
considering this plot was sniffed out, it says alot about our airport's security systems-one being, they work. thank you security...

...this time....

i don't think today's developments are anything to be cocky about.
None shall pass!!!!
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:35 am

Quoting Ordryan28 (Reply 39):
considering this plot was sniffed out, it says alot about our airport's security systems-one being, they work. thank you security...

-Ryan

Or rather, it says that our counter-terrorism intelligence is working, since these people were arrested before they even made it to the airport. They weren't caught at the screening station.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
HKGKaiTak
Posts: 971
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:48 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:59 am

I hear on TV this morning (Seven's Sunrise) that all US-bound flights from Australia are now subject ot pretty much the level of security at those originating from the UK. Not sure if they've actually banned all carry-ons, but the news reports did say no fluids now allowed on board those flights.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 29):
Seems to me the simplest solution is to send the electronic device through the x-ray machine, then have the owner turn it on and operate it in some form to make sure the device performs the function for which it was designed.

But one of these days they would work out how to make an MP3 player work as intended as still have the detonator inside. Then what?

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 29):
The same could be said with fluids. Make the owner drink from each of the bottles. Would be kind of funny seeing someone drink lighter fluid try to do with it straight face.

Some "UK security expert" on TV this morning said they think the bottles can be made with false bottoms, ie the "tasting" swig up the top is water and then the sinister fluid is contained underneath.

How do you stop this?Make sure all fluids taken on board is clear water, in a clear bottle?

I wonder why they didn't just search everybody to make sure their fluid containers didn't actually contain any liquids? And direct them to the bubblers (or drinks fountains) to fill them up after going thru security? (That's if they work in the first place ...)
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
SAS330GOT
Posts: 189
Joined: Sun May 02, 2004 3:51 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:03 am

I think that unfortunately we the people will be the victims once again for a malicious act.

No matter if there was a lose of life or not I think the "terrorists" have been successful in there dead to make some of us think/do
1. Why would anybody do something like that?
2. Scare people to change their lifestyles.
3. get the government to react to decrease our freedom.

I am sad that the government has to resort to these extreme measures. But the reaction is a terrorist tool to inconvene our daily life and routine.

No matter what happens the terrorist have been successful in messing our daily life up.

So I guess what I am trying to say is that we and the government can prevent lose of life, but not terrorism. And this leads to how much do we want to go before the argument "it is for your own safety" is obsolete and people figure out other ways to travel or do business.


In terms of turning on and off your electronic device, I do not understand why this is necessary. Get high-educated security personal and equipment. Cut us military budget and spend 1/4th on airport security around the WORLD. Then we could at least have a 1 or 2% more safe airspace.

I hope this would be a huge impact on the airline business, if not a re-design and re-think throughout the travel business. Is there a terrorist safe type of travel? Is there 1 single area where you can be 100% safe? What is the impact going to be on NWA? Or other airlines in trouble.

Well, a couple of comments and questions.
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19793
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:12 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 37):

What would happen if my cellphone failed to work because the batteries were dead (something that frequently happens to me when I forget to recharge it... and recharging it abroad is a pain in the butt!) Would I be treated as a terrorist?

Probably not. But you might have to leave your phone.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:30 am

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 42):
But one of these days they would work out how to make an MP3 player work as intended as still have the detonator inside. Then what?

Again, you'd like to think the screeners would catch the detonator hidden within the device, or the chemical sniffers would be able to sniff out the explosives.

Quoting HKGKaiTak (Reply 42):
Some "UK security expert" on TV this morning said they think the bottles can be made with false bottoms, ie the "tasting" swig up the top is water and then the sinister fluid is contained underneath.

How do you stop this?Make sure all fluids taken on board is clear water, in a clear bottle?

And again, these explosives should be caught by the sniffers at the screening point but seeing as how you want to play the "how about this, this, and this game:
How do you stop someone from going to the store, buying an Estes rocket, filling the tube with some explosives, driving by the airport and shooting it an airplane as it's on final approach? I mean, a plane on final approach is a large, slow-flying target, and look how close some roads come to the perimeter fence of an airport. Are you suggesting we stop selling model rockets since they too could pose a threat to commercial airliners?
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:32 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 28):
I can think of several flammable and explosive fluids that look like drinks. Lighter fluid for one. Then you could build a detonator into the MP3 player.

Keep in mind that nowadays you're only allowed to take 2 lighters and 4 books of matches with you onto a plane. That's how the TSA is protecting us.

I wonder if they're still allowing 4 books of matches in a clear plastic bag onto flights?
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
User avatar
Starlionblue
Posts: 19793
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2004 9:54 pm

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:36 am

Quoting Andrewuber (Reply 46):

Keep in mind that nowadays you're only allowed to take 2 lighters and 4 books of matches with you onto a plane.

AFAIK matches and lighters have been banned for a while now in the US.


Hey, I'm just pointing out holes in the logic. A real security system is multi-tiered and includes profiling, questioning, multiple thorough physical searches and multiple x-rays and magnetic scanning. The single point of failure approach seen today is too brittle.
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - John Ringo
 
fumanchewd
Posts: 2878
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:43 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 28):
I can think of several flammable and explosive fluids that look like drinks. Lighter fluid for one. Then you could build a detonator into the MP3 player.

Here's some pretty good info on possible ways to create/utilize liquid exlposives.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4780391.stm
In the time of chimpanzees, I was a monkey...
 
laxatljfkcvg
Posts: 39
Joined: Wed Aug 09, 2006 8:32 am

RE: Plot To Blow Up Aircraft Inflight Foiled [Part 3]

Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:39 am

ON the menu today we have an explocve coctale  hot 

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos