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RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:11 am
by Scanwing
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 49):

Boeing
737-600/700/800: 27/6/12

SAS Sweden

737-600/800: 15/4 = 19

SAS Braathens
737-400/500/600/700/800: 4/13/11/15/9 = 52

Total:
737-400/500/600/700/800: 4/13/26/15/13 = 71

[Edited 2006-08-14 19:12:43]

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:21 am
by Sukhoi
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 46):
I sincerely hope SK doesn't get slots/rights to fly ARN-NRT before AY gets slots for daily NRT fligths. It's already too screwed up that SK can fly CPH-NRT daily and AY only twice a week even though they have been trying to get the slots for many many years already.

SAS International have two slots from Norway, two from Denmark and three from Sweden. I thought the slots issue is going to be loosing up since there are going to be more international flights from Tokyo-Haneda airport to Asian destinations and Narita has expanded the terminals and there is 1 large runway and a smaller one that are going to be expended too now. But JAL is in oneworld can´t they fly to HEL with a codeshare with AY?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:08 am
by Mortyman
Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 42):

Yes, the route ended because the 767 was only half full and SAS were loosing money on it. Continetal is doing better, because they use a smaller plane. More efficient.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:55 am
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 47):
Don't forget that AY is also flying to KIX and NGO. If i were on the board of NRT I would grant SK a slot before giving AY daily access.

Well, AY started to fly to KIX and NGO because it can't get more slots at NRT...

So why should SK get the slots at NRT and AY only at KIX and NGO? Remember that EK and QR are also flying to KIX because they don't have slots at NRT.

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 51):
SAS International have two slots from Norway, two from Denmark and three from Sweden.

Thanks for the info! So that means that SK would have to get new slots from somewhere to be able to start operating ARN-NRT.

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 51):
But JAL is in oneworld can´t they fly to HEL with a codeshare with AY?

Well, I've heard that suggested... I'd love it to be true in the future. But more than that I'd love to see a daily flight on AY metal.  Wink

[Edited 2006-08-14 21:58:22]

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:48 am
by Sukhoi
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 53):
Thanks for the info! So that means that SK would have to get new slots from somewhere to be able to start operating ARN-NRT.

Yes like AY from somewhere  <br><br>[Edited 2006-08-14 22:51:41]</div>
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RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 3:57 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 53):
So why should SK get the slots at NRT and AY only at KIX and NGO?

Competiton prehabs? I'm not saying that SK should get a daily ARN-NRT, because that will never work. I think it would be better giving SK slots for 2-3 flights a week instead of giving AY daily, just for the competiton.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 4:11 pm
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 55):
Competiton prehabs? I'm not saying that SK should get a daily ARN-NRT, because that will never work. I think it would be better giving SK slots for 2-3 flights a week instead of giving AY daily, just for the competiton.

Where's your logic? SK already has the upper hand on NRT ops since it has slots for daily operations. SK is free to begin KIX and NGO whenever it wants. Why on earth should SK have daily (or several per week) slots to NRT from two of its hubs when AY don't get daily slots from even one hub?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:30 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 56):
Where's your logic? SK already has the upper hand on NRT ops since it has slots for daily operations. SK is free to begin KIX and NGO whenever it wants. Why on earth should SK have daily (or several per week) slots to NRT from two of its hubs when AY don't get daily slots from even one hub?

First of all AY only has one (HEL) hub while SK has three. (CPH/ARN/OSL)
Scandinavia is a popular destination for Japanesse people. So why wouldn't i smarter to increase the non-stop destinations in Scandinavia to three instead of just two? If SK is given the same number of slots from ARN as AY has from HEL it would be better for the passsengers. Would AY even make daily to NRT work?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:50 pm
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 57):
First of all AY only has one (HEL) hub while SK has three. (CPH/ARN/OSL)

So? And by the way, OSL is not an intercontinental hub for SK.

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 57):
Scandinavia is a popular destination for Japanese people.

Actually Finland is the most popular destination for Japanese people in Nordic Countries (/Scandinavia) right now.

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 57):
If SK is given the same number of slots from ARN as AY has from HEL it would be better for the passengers.

As noted earlier, SK already has more slots from Sweden (=3) than AY has from Finland (=2) (see Reply 51). SK has chosen to use these from CPH, not Sweden. So why should they be given even more slots to Sweden when they don't even use their current ones from there?

Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 57):
Would AY even make daily to NRT work?

Easily. KIX is now 6 per week and Tokyo is much, much bigger... Right now AY is relying on code-sharing on JL for HND-KIX to get its pax out of Tokyo on the days that AY cannot serve NRT.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 8:39 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 58):
So? And by the way, OSL is not an intercontinental hub for SK.

It's pretty obvious that you are just talking "pro" AY. I have made my point clear so I don't see any resaon to continue this discussion.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 58):
Right now AY is relying on code-sharing on JL for HND-KIX to get its pax out of Tokyo on the days that AY cannot serve NRT

And how is that going?

[Edited 2006-08-15 13:43:34]

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:01 pm
by birka340
If SAS will add the two AC A340s, when can they be operated in SAS colours?
How many weeks/months will it take to make a deal?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:30 pm
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 59):
It's pretty obvious that you are just talking "pro" AY. I have made my point clear so I don't see any resaon to continue this discussion.

Yes, I'm pro AY. Sure, you can stop discussing this matter if you want to. But you forgot to comment on my valid point:

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 58):
As noted earlier, SK already has more slots from Sweden (=3) than AY has from Finland (=2) (see Reply 51). SK has chosen to use these from CPH, not Sweden. So why should they be given even more slots to Sweden when they don't even use their current ones from there?


Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 59):
And how is that going?

I don't have any figures on that one. But who would enjoy the extra stop-over (except A.netters)? In addition, it only works HND-KIX-HEL, not HEL-KIX-HND since JL doesn't fly KIX-HND at a good time to be able to connect. (Most Osaka-Tokyo flights use ITM, not KIX.)

[Edited 2006-08-15 14:33:31]

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 9:53 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 61):
SK has chosen to use these from CPH, not Sweden. So why should they be given even more slots to Sweden when they don't even use their current ones from there?

If the allready have three slots to Sweden that they not are using I think it's because the lack of aircrafts. So if they buy the ones from AC maybe they will use them. CPH is also the main hub for SK. That could also be a reason for not using the Swedish ones.

[Edited 2006-08-15 14:55:47]

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Tue Aug 15, 2006 10:32 pm
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 62):
If the allready have three slots to Sweden that they not are using I think it's because the lack of aircrafts. So if they buy the ones from AC maybe they will use them. CPH is also the main hub for SK. That could also be a reason for not using the Swedish ones.

The Swedish slots are not un-used, they are used from CPH:

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 51):
SAS International have two slots from Norway, two from Denmark and three from Sweden.

2 + 2 + 3 = 7 -> daily operations from CPH, 0 from ARN, 0 from OSL.

What I'm saying is, if SK asks slots from NRT to start operating ARN-NRT, Tokyo should simple answer "Please use your current Swedish slots from ARN if you want to fly from there."

If SK wants to seriously compete with AY on Asian flights, they should simply move all Asian operations to their ARN hub.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:35 am
by Robbie86
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 63):
The Swedish slots are not un-used, they are used from CPH:

Okay, I thought you ment something else.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 63):
What I'm saying is, if SK asks slots from NRT to start operating ARN-NRT, Tokyo should simple answer "Please use your current Swedish slots from ARN if you want to fly from there."

You make a good point. But I have a hard time seeing that SK will cut down it's CPH-NRT route. If I'm not misstaken it's one of SK most profitable routes. I hope Tokyo will open up some more slots for ARN.

Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 63):
If SK wants to seriously compete with AY on Asian flights, they should simply move all Asian operations to their ARN hub.

Or expand ARN so that it will be equal with CPH.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:03 am
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 64):
You make a good point.

Thank you for seeing it.  Wink

I guess we will both keep hoping good things to come for "our" airlines.  Wink

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 4:40 am
by Sukhoi
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 65):
guess we will both keep hoping good things to come for "our" airlines.

In Finland you have Finnair, in Sweden we only have SDA Scandinavian Danish Airlines as a national carrier!

Sukhoi

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:06 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 66):
Thank you for seeing it.

I guess we will both keep hoping good things to come for "our" airlines.

So true so true.  spin 

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:47 am
by Robbie86
Just thought of something. Wouldn't ARN-MSP be a good route? After all there is a big population in Minnesota the has emmigrated from Sweden in the past.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:34 am
by UpperDeck79
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 68):
Wouldn't ARN-MSP be a good route? After all there is a big population in Minnesota the has emmigrated from Sweden in the past.

They might fill the flights during Xmas and July-August, but how about the other months...?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:37 am
by Oykie
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 68):
Just thought of something. Wouldn't ARN-MSP be a good route? After all there is a big population in Minnesota the has emigrated from Sweden in the past.

Or what about OSL-MSP? Northwest used to fly this route some years ago. Actually we should reinstate the old Intercontinental network that all westbound US/Canada flights goes through either OSL or BGO and all eastbound planes goes through ARNBig grin

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 3:04 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting OyKIE (Reply 70):
They might fill the flights during Xmas and July-August, but how about the other months...?

If SK puts in ARN-MSP two times a week a think the can fill it up.

Quoting OyKIE (Reply 70):
Or what about OSL-MSP?

OSL-EWR failed when using a Boeing 767. So how will SK make OSL-MSP work using a Airbus 330/340?

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:10 pm
by sk909
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 71):
OSL-EWR failed when using a Boeing 767

You are wrong. With the 767 it was a success. But then SK sold them and acquired A330/340. When they started using the A330, it was a failure. They couldn't fill the A330 from OSL.

If SK bought a handful of either A330-200 or some cheap B767, they could strat the service again.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:22 pm
by StarGoldLHR
I think the UK needs SAS to keep it's lonig haul...



if SAS capitulates that leaves LH as the only long haul star alliance carrier in europe ! BD doesnt count, and OS / Swiss are LH extensions !

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:37 pm
by sk909
Quoting UpperDeck79 (Reply 63):
If SK wants to seriously compete with AY on Asian flights, they should simply move all Asian operations to their ARN hub.

Well, maybe, maybe not... When Sk had their flights to Asia, they weren't generation enough traffic. I see your point, I am just not sure it would work. Also , there is an idea in keeping the intercon't flights in one place, and not splitting it up.

Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 66):
Sweden we only have SDA Scandinavian Danish Airlines as a national carrier!

Well Sukhoi, we differ in opinion. I would say that we in Denmark, only have SSA (Scandinavian Swedish Airlines). Although we have the intercon't flights from CPH, the company is run on such a swedish way. The company is permeated with swedish thinking. And even though the CEO was Lindegaard, the administrative personnel, and accountants, are swedish. Making it almost impossible to run the company with a profit.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:44 pm
by Robbie86
Quoting SK909 (Reply 72):
You are wrong. With the 767 it was a success. But then SK sold them and acquired A330/340. When they started using the A330, it was a failure. They couldn't fill the A330 from OSL.

Okay okay, I got the thing wrong. But the point is, if they can't fill a plane to New York they won't be able to fill one to MSP.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 5:58 pm
by sk909
Quoting Robbie86 (Reply 75):
Okay okay, I got the thing wrong. But the point is, if they can't fill a plane to New York they won't be able to fill one to MSP.

 Smile That's okay. I am also wrong from time to time. But I would think that if SK bought a nice handful of A330-200 or some cheap B767, they would actually be able to fill the aircraft. Whether or not they could fill it to MSP I am not sure of. But one thing is for sure. If SK want's to exist in 5 to 10 years, especially intercon't, they have to expand.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:31 pm
by Doona
Quoting Sukhoi (Reply 66):
In Finland you have Finnair, in Sweden we only have SDA Scandinavian Danish Airlines as a national carrier!

This actually makes things easier for the two million or so Swedes that live closer to CPH than ARN!  bigsmile 

Quoting SK909 (Reply 76):
If SK want's to exist in 5 to 10 years, especially intercon't, they have to expand.

I agree, but MSP isn't a viable candidate for expansion. CPH-YYZ would be a much more sensible choice for North America, AC could probably shove a good number of PAX onto a code share on that route.

Cheers
Mats

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:02 pm
by sk909
Quoting Doona (Reply 77):
CPH-YYZ would be a much more sensible choice for North America

I agree, that you could find other destinations that are a lot more viable; SFO, LAX, MIA, MCO, YYZ.
MIA and MCO are interesting in regards to tourism, whereas SFO, LAX and YYZ would be more business oriented. But all interesting destinations. Though if I have to be completely honest I only see SFO and maybe MCO, in the near future for SK.

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:48 pm
by bjornstrom
If SK would buy these ex-AC aircraft - would they modify the interior to fit the current seatmap and color scheme?

(I believe that the galleys are located differently on SK A340's).

RE: SAS To Get A340 From Canada?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:55 pm
by sk909
Most likely. The planes will be sent to Asia for refitting, and painting, and sent back to Scandinavia. After purchase we can expect to se them within 3 months.