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billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:13 am

Quoting LHR777 (Reply 94):
So, basically, you're contradicting yourself here, by stating in reply 1 that the airline would have gained your loyalty, had they upgraded you.

You obviously also don't understand the Alliances.
I flew a partner airline on 8hrs notice. yes, clicked at 10pm the night before for an int'l res. There was unfortunate3ly no availability on my normal airline.
I therefore flew a partner airline, I get the same mileage, and get to board early. I can not use upgrades, or miles to push forward. With 350,000 miles on account what the hell do I care about 15K each way for an upg. But partners don't do that.
If you build miles on UA you don't get UPG's on US or AC.
If you build miles on on DL you don't get UPG's on NW or CO.

So before you make a statement become a FF. Know the rules. And use them.

That airline, as it was a partner would have won alot of my business. Because miles accrue equally within the alliance and I can freely chose which airline I fly within the alliance. This is especially the case because I book a great deal of long haul. And I can buy Business on a 50 day advance in I inventory at an equivalent M fare with a seven day minimum stay. This applies to all US carriers.
Hi level FF's know the rules, and play the game. Most employees are clueless

If you really want to know the truth call your Elite-Plus res line at DL or CO or UA or whomever and ask the following question:
How savvy are the platinums or equivalent?

The answer will be very shocking to you.

Your agents will all tell you:
The AVERAGE Platinum knows more about your airline than the employees. In fact many of the res agents will tell you that they learn from the Platinums.
This may be difficult for your ego, but it is logical.

Simply the road warrier learns how to get where he needs and how he needs.
The employee doesn't have to figure it out. There is a manual that tells you what to do. The road warrier uses his knowledge to get him home to see the kids soccer.
You on the other hand don't know squat about being a customer.

So call your Res and ask them just how stupid the Platinums are. And I bet you you carreer versus mine that we know one hell of alot more about travelling than you do!
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting MesaMXORD (Reply 102):
So how do you envision picking which Y class people to grab for an upgrade to build loyalty? (EX: 777 flight with 200 some Y pax on board?)

Same way you do on domestics with frequent fliers by:
1: Fare Class Inventory
2: by date and time stamp

Therefore he who paid more gets it.
Note that some people might pay more just for the chance of an upg. This will roll over to more airline income and stability. Great for staff.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 99):

Shut up u. Ur starting to annoy the hell out of me now.....

Where in that line did he say ITS OUR RIGHT, hes saying he would RATHER, READ IT BEFORE U COMMENT.

Of course he knows the rules, and will follow them. U ur self were a non rever and i bet u ALWAYS tried to get up front, and never EVER turned it down did u, come on, admit it. Ur being a hypocrite.

WE KNOW its a perk, WE KNOW we get space if avail. HE knows all that crap u posted above. SHUT UP
Where does the time go???
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:20 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 103):
So before you make a statement become a FF. Know the rules. And use them.

Take your own advice, Bill, and you don't have to worry about us lowlife NRSA's taking you spot up front on Domestic. And, if you do that, you can always cash in miles and not have to worry about us lowlifes in Biz Class on international.

Fortunately, most FF elites aren't arrogant like you, and do understand that we do deserve our perks when they're available to us.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

Airline Acronyms

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:25 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 101):
Seems what galls you is that WE, the airline employee wins in this discussion, not you.

Wake up. Unless you are a pilot or MX you make less than $20 per hour.
If you are a res agent or a ramper you are paid less than $15 industry average.
And you win.
Everyone that says I lose, proves my point.

In reality you pay far more than me for Business class.
How much is that pass worth to you $20,000 per year less in salary.
Only the pilots, MX and Management are making good money.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:31 am

OK, now ur turning the subject around to "U DONT GET PAID ENOUGH" to sit up front

This is turning ugly my friend (no ur not my friend)

You now think as we are not paid enough we dont deserve a perk in our job. What do u want us to be, arragant like urself. No thanks. I would rather stay in my well paid job which i love dearly dealing with passengers, helping them enjoy there journeys, while i occasionaly enjoy flying the airline and seeing the services i tell pax about first hand. You dont seem to be answering any of my questions at all, is that casue u know we are right and u dont want to admit it about perks being liked by people. What perks do u enjoy in ur travel. Is it J class on business trabvel, what if we said, OH NO, U DONT DESERVE THAT, ITS WASTING COMPANY MONEY, UR SITTING IN THE BACK, i bet that would cheese u off yea, WELL MATE, that what ur telling us, so shut up pls, do us a favour
Where does the time go???
 
ualcsr
Posts: 381
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 12:53 pm

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 83):
Quoting Airbazar (Reply 70):
Why is that? It happens in every company in every industry. Does every one get a corner office? Does every one get to drive to work in a limo? No, usually only high ranked officials. Why should mere employees get to sit in First of Business class to the detriment of paying customers? There is no such thing as an available F or J seat unless the airline staff allowed that to happen. There are plenty of good customers sitting in Y who should be getting those seats instead of an airline employee, because those are the people who are going to keep coming back, and in return, will keep airline staff employed.

Thank you. You get it.

Hmmm, actually he didn't get it. When I was a CSR, I stood up for anywhere between 8 to 12 hours (and sometimes more) while my manager sat in an office. This was part of the work-place environment and completely accepted. However, what you obviously don't know Bill (maybe a little research before you post would help) is that NRSA travel, at least at my airline, is STRICTLY for leisure travel, so in essence, your wonderful, profitable airline and, oh, elitist airline is doing nothing more than creating apartheid in the air.

Bill, I'm really sorry for you.
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:34 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 106):
Fortunately, most FF elites aren't arrogant like you, and do understand that we do deserve our perks when they're available to us.

I'm not arrogant.
I posed a simple question and asked for a philosophy.

Would you accept the back of the bus as a perk only if it improved your airlines bottom line, through driving revenues?

If this is arrogant i apolagize. I knew this thread would be controversial but I wanted to plant a seed. Perhaps somethings are worth giving up for the financial security of our industry.

I want all readers to think how to improve our business not about our silly NRSA benefits. Some of the readers have taken a logical approach and asked what if???

If one individual asks how do I make my airline better we have all won. But if we keep things the same then we are doomed to failure.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:37 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 109):

Hmmm, actually he didn't get it. When I was a CSR, I stood up for anywhere between 8 to 12 hours (and sometimes more) while my manager sat in an office. This was part of the work-place environment and completely accepted. However, what you obviously don't know Bill (maybe a little research before you post would help) is that NRSA travel, at least at my airline, is STRICTLY for leisure travel, so in essence, your wonderful, profitable airline and, oh, elitist airline is doing nothing more than creating apartheid in the air.

If you charge $10,000 for a F international fare don't you already have an elitist structure.

By the way what stopped you from becoming that guy in the corner office??
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:38 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 110):
I'm not arrogant

We all think you are though, thats the point. Ur q was simple, u just made it ALOT worse, by saying we dont work hard for the benifit of non rev, we dont get paid enough so we should not be given ascces to the front if were lucky enough to get it.

You have said we dont help the airline. If we dont help, then what the hell are we employed for. ANSWER THAT
Where does the time go???
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:38 am

The world is not going to come to an end if an airline lets NRSA's sit up front. In fact, I think it's a good thing. It's a nice perk for employees who are generally not making very high salaries. Of course, the airline should try to sell those upgrades whenever possible, but in the end if they are open, give them to employees. I would do it everytime and not think twice about it.
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:40 am

Once again, MODERATORS please oh please lock this thread. This is getting into a totally pointless conversation.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:40 am

Quoting Ualcsr (Reply 109):
NRSA travel, at least at my airline, is STRICTLY for leisure travel

If you are travelling on Leisure then why not sit in TOURIST class?
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting FutureFO (Reply 114):
Once again, MODERATORS please oh please lock this thread. This is getting into a totally pointless conversation.

Thats why you came back to read more????
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:41 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 115):

If you are travelling on Leisure then why not sit in TOURIST class?

Ohhhhhhhh

Your now saying if anyone travels for leisure, they should travel in Y, hmmm, intresting. Bet you dont do that do you. Most of F/J/W are leisure passenger, some are business of course, but alot are leisure, that statment is saying if ur going on hol, sit down the back
Where does the time go???
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:44 am

Ok then why don't you get a life and leave this to people that have real opinions vs trying to have people googling your home address.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:52 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:44 am

Try taking Greyhound next time, Bill. No upgrades are available for employees on the bus.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 110):
I'm not arrogant.

No? You demand empathy from us, but tell us to cry a river, basically, because we don't like your stance. You demand we respect you, yet you've shown no respect to those of us who work hard for YOU, and for our airline, by saying we don't DESERVE to sit up there, when we do.

Sorry, but that's arrogance, my friend.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 110):
Would you accept the back of the bus as a perk only if it improved your airlines bottom line, through driving revenues?

Irrelevant. Such a thing doesn't exist, and NRSA travel at most carriers allow F/C or Biz travel, so what you are asking is pure conjecture.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 110):
If this is arrogant i apolagize.

Keep it. You've offended far too many people.

Quoting BillReid (Reply 110):
I want all readers to think how to improve our business not about our silly NRSA benefits

Silly to you. I see spending 2 grand on a Y seat as silly. So we're even.

Again, the comfort in all this is you won't get your way. You'll continue to complain about us lowlifes being allowed to fly up front when we can. Tough cookies.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:03 am

Boy, this went downhill fast.

Not all airline employees hate their job. Most of like/love to be here. 20 years of service with my airline as flight attendant (CO) to you should show you that I love my job. I can also bet you have not been on my flights to show you that.

I am also one who is grateful to even be on the plane. I commute and I am very grateful to get a seat.

Sitting up front is a perk, yes. It is a benefit. If the seat is there, and it goes to no one else, why not. If it is still empty, there is no revenue lost.

On the other hand, a loyal paying customer, a FF or even someone willing to pay the difference should be given the seat. However, there are flights where those circumstances don't occur. There are flights where the customer base doesn't warrant an upgrade (pick a reason). What then?

You did leave yourself open to a lot with this thread. You might have gotten less of a fight had you worded it differently and been open with us as to your background earlier, such as you worked for an airline (would be nice to know for who and in what capacity).

There is a difference in starting a thread to start a discussion and starting a thread to provoke people.

I also agree this thread needs stopping or deletion all together.

Cheers,

Bill
You can't cure stupid
 
billreid
Topic Author
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:04 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 113):
The world is not going to come to an end if an airline lets NRSA's sit up front. In fact, I think it's a good thing. It's a nice perk for employees who are generally not making very high salaries. Of course, the airline should try to sell those upgrades whenever possible, but in the end if they are open, give them to employees. I would do it everytime and not think twice about it.

THIS GUY HAS THE RIGHT ANSWER.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE INDUSTRY.
HE HAS A GOOD ATTITUDE.
AND HE LIKES WHAT HE DOES.

PERFECT. PERFECT. PERFECT.
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:07 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 122):

EXCUSE ME MR REID,

THATS WHAT WE HAVE BEEN SAYING FOR GODS SAKE

LISTEN AND READ

Your the one saying were crap at our jobs, dont work hard, and dont get paid enough, ur the one demeaning us
Where does the time go???
 
MesaMXORD
Posts: 176
Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:05 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:34 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 104):
Quoting MesaMXORD (Reply 102):
So how do you envision picking which Y class people to grab for an upgrade to build loyalty? (EX: 777 flight with 200 some Y pax on board?)

Same way you do on domestics with frequent fliers by:
1: Fare Class Inventory
2: by date and time stamp

Therefore he who paid more gets it.
Note that some people might pay more just for the chance of an upg. This will roll over to more airline income and stability. Great for staff.

Well what about a guy that had his Mother just die. What if he doesn't have these things? Or the guy that waited till the last Minute and Paid an outrageous amount(What some companies do to there FF) and Here I am With my ticket I have had a month before the flight (Fly alot with that Airline just not a FF) and paid less then him? Who gets it?

[Edited 2006-08-19 03:36:18]
MESA - fighting common sense one day at a time
 
Avatordon
Posts: 238
Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 10:33 pm

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:49 am

Bill -you didn't answer my question about what type of work you used to do, so let me pose another one or two.

- Had the carrier in question upgraded you, what, exactly, would that act, in and of itself, have done for you?
- How would it have changed your unfortunate circumstances?
- What incremental revenue would it have brought the carrier in question from someone who is no longer employed?
- What type of example would that have set for the other travelers sitting in First Class that did pay the full fare?
- If I were a road warrior seated in First Class and I saw people always "whining their way up front", what type of loyalty do you think I would give that carrier going forward?

Carriers are entitled to make a profit, aren't they? Or does that golden rule not apply when you start trying to suck up to them for an upgrade? I seem to recall a very wise man once saying to me, about individuals like you that "you're only as good as your last upgrade".

Shame on you Bill - shame on you for wanting to rob us of one of the very few remaining benefits that we as airline staff still have left; shame on you for being so contemptous and smug about everything we have endured, especially in the last 5 years - terrorist attacks, bankruptcies, financial hardship, working condistions that you couldn't even begin to imagine in the bubble boy world you appear to live in; shame on you for being so arrogant as to even think that this topic was an appropriate one to bring up to the good, hard working, aviation loving people of this forum, in and out of the industry. We have endured enough both in and out of our workplace - must we now endure you and your venomous diatribes as well as well? Finally, shame on you for having a total lack of respect for our jobs, our feelings, the once proud carriers we work or worked for, and our love of aviation. Have you no sense of decency at long last?
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting BillReid (Reply 122):
THIS GUY HAS THE RIGHT ANSWER.
HE UNDERSTANDS THE INDUSTRY.
HE HAS A GOOD ATTITUDE.
AND HE LIKES WHAT HE DOES.

PERFECT. PERFECT. PERFECT.

If I may offer some advice. When you use capital letters, you give the reader an impression that you are mad, angry, irate and yelling to get your point across. It can also diminish what you want to say and it looses meaning.

Under "forum" at the top of the page, follow to "user services", then to "forum help". Listed here are ways of using the keyboard to effectively get your point across without making it seem like you are yelling at us (and in return alienate the poster). Like bold or italicised print.

My  twocents  worth here to help make this a great place for talk amongst aviation enthusiasts.

Cheers,

Bill
You can't cure stupid
 
utapao
Posts: 546
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:19 pm

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:30 am

Jeeeeeez....

Does no one else see this as some guy stirring up crap??? The more you argue, the more fuel you give him to keep flaming the fire.

Let it die... let his argument die... very few members drink his Kool Aid!

What a waste of bandwidth he has stirred up. You are stoking his fire. He is logging on every hour or two and throwing more kerosense on this by finding what pushes your buttons.

You (and I) work hard for our benefits. He used to. How many times have you stood by until the last second and a "revenue" passenger take the last seat. Frustrating...sure... but the company made a little extra revenue so you take it on the chin and move to the next gate.

The airlines realize that IF they cannot sell a C/F seat for revenue, then it is worth it to allow their employees to fill an empty seat and eat $15 worth of food... and what he has not mentioned is many airlines (mine included) charge $x for Y, $xx for C, and $xxx for F. So even the food/liquor is more than paid for. If a revenue passenger wanted that seat, they would have bought it or paid for... or used miles for the upgrade... or upgraded at the last minute ... and the poor schlep employee waiting in a suit and tie at the gate would have gotten 33-E. Still a nice benefit... but it is NOT costing the company.

Do a search on his posts and think about it. He's appears to be nothing more than a ticked off ex-employee.

Safe travels.
Sawasdee khrab!
 
tundra767
Posts: 401
Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:35 am

Another blagger who did not get his free upgrade complains! Ok as both and airline employee and elite frequent flyer with both Air France Plat. and American Airlines Gold. I can say I take advantage of both situations. I am a flight attendant and also work part time for a marketing firm. I have the opportunity to travel as a revenue passenger as well as nonrev. I feel the airline employee and his/her family should be able to fly in P,J and any other cabin.This provides a positive reward for their hard work for the airline. I have flown may times in paid F,P,J,C and seen not obnoxious nonrev, but revenue passengers who were given comp. upgrades act like a complete fool! In my mind if you are looking for some free hand out you have no reason to complain! To the OP go to Flyertalk and leave this site to hobby not complaining!
 
FURUREFA
Posts: 641
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2004 2:26 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 11:54 am

Hey Bill, I'm gonna tell you something which is going to piss you off:
I flew from LHR-BOS on AA and was at the gate listening to some loser like you whine about some upgrade from Y to J and how he paid $3000 for his Y seat. I'm only 13, only am an AAdvantage Gold member through the challenge and don't bring much revenue other than 5 or 6 INTL J tickets a year. The guy whining was denied his upgrade. I boarded and the purser told me to follow her. She brought me to First and gave me seat 3A for the flight. I didn't feel that I deserved the upgrade, and only received it because I knew the F/As. I should have not accepted, because it goes against my principle that UPGRADES SHOULD NOT BE HANDED OUT FOR NO REASON.

Bill, if you plan to stay on this site, you better learn to make a few friends and this is not the way to do it. I concur with MSYTristar, J/F seats should be sold (either for $$ or through mile or $$ upgrades) and THEN given to non-revs, but NOT to a traveller who has not paid for it.

Matt
 
9252fly
Posts: 1087
Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 7:19 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:25 pm

I somehow don't think any airline employee would want to deny a customer an upgrade providing the guidelines are followed. It seems to me the issue here might be that the airline in question clearly did not have a policy/procedure in place to upgrade a high yielding frequent flier from an alliance/partner carrier.

In regards to employees travelling in the business/first cabin,I don't have any issue with that providing policy/procedures are being followed.

I'm somewhat surprised that this thread never got locked down. I can only guess the moderators are enjoying themselves to much to do their job.
 
Lucky42
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2006 5:20 am

RE: Global Nrsa Embargo In F And C

Sat Aug 19, 2006 1:20 pm

I really don't understand the argument here...First of all you are lucky if you can even get into F class domestic. International maybe but even going to Europe you can most likely forget it. Asia I have seen open seats in F class that might be used be an employee.....Face it Bill...Like the others have said it is a benefit of working in the airline industry which as you know requires employees to work odd hours, weekends, and holidays on a regular basis and with all the concessions airline employees have had to make this is the one thing that most likely keep people working in this crazy industry.

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