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cvg2lga
Topic Author
Posts: 447
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:48 am

Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:40 pm

K, everyone in my building has thier finger on the panic button waiting for September when DL is supposedly cutting mass flights. Can anyone tell me how many are expected so far? I know that 32 & 42 will go away as they are seasonal as well as AF 383. Any other info around?
Tchau
DA-
They don't call em' emergencies anymore. They call em' Patronies.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 12:42 pm

They are adding a daily flight to Ottawa in September.
a.
 
sq452
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 1):
They are adding a daily flight to Ottawa in September.

Ottawa is Comair I believe, I think he is talking about mainline.

I was checking bookings in December and it looked like they were keeping Air France as you could still book it.

Sad to see that DL is dumping so many Cincy flights. Pretty soon if they keep it up DL's cuts at CVG will start to look like US's cuts at PIT.

:-(
SIN > CVG > BOS
 
N839MH
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:48 pm

As for the DFW-CVG market...still 4 flights a day...although they
will all be DCI flights since the B737-200's are gone!
Solodude!
 
MSYtristar
Posts: 7543
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 1:51 pm

CVG-MSY is seeing one additional roundtrip...3x daily DCI (2x ER4, 1x CRJ).
 
panamair
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting CVG2LGA (Thread starter):
I know that 32 & 42 will go away as they are seasonal

Both 32 (CVG-FCO) and 42 (CVG-AMS) are still operating daily in both September and October (though October is certainly subject to change). They are currently scheduled to go away starting with the winter schedule in effect from Sun Oct 29.
 
SESGDL
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:51 pm

CVG will actually be gaining flights in September. The cuts at CVG are done, which involved ending service to some cities and reducing frequencies across the board. Mainline has been reduced but mostly only to short to mid-range destinations. This September, CVG will retain mainline service to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SNA, SAN, PHX, LAS, HNL, SLC, DEN, ABQ, TPA, SRQ, MCO, JAX, FLL, RSW, RDU, DCA, BWI, EWR, LGA, JFK, BDL, BOS, CMH, PIT, SDF, CUN, LGW, CDG, and FRA. Overall CVG will see around 440 daily flights to 120+ destinations this fall. All of these people saying CVG will be cut are wrong, CVG is going nowhere. It's just not as central a player as ATL, JFK, and SLC will be with DL's expansions in the future.

Jeremy
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:06 pm

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
This September, CVG will retain mainline service to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SNA, SAN, PHX, LAS, HNL, SLC, DEN, ABQ, TPA, SRQ, MCO, JAX, FLL, RSW, RDU, DCA, BWI, EWR, LGA, JFK, BDL, BOS, CMH, PIT, SDF, CUN, LGW, CDG, and FRA. Overall CVG will see around 440 daily flights to 120+ destinations this fall. All of these people saying CVG will be cut are wrong, CVG is going nowhere. It's just not as central a player as ATL, JFK, and SLC will be with DL's expansions in the future.

There are still places out west where there is DL mainline service to like ABQ, whereas SLC is only offered SkyWest CRJ flights to. CVG also has flights to LGW and CVG, something SLC will be very lucky to ever see even though they talk about adding such next summer.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
Delta787
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:15 pm

It looks like mainline flights may be down a bit but thats thanks to the retirement of the 732 fleet. I doubt CVG will be cut again.
Fly Delta!
 
laxatljfkcvg
Posts: 39
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:21 pm

cvg should not be the only delta hub to cutback. Atl stl should also cutback.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:30 pm

Quoting SQ452 (Reply 2):
Sad to see that DL is dumping so many Cincy flights. Pretty soon if they keep it up DL's cuts at CVG will start to look like US's cuts at PIT.

I think CVG will be seeing a few cuts this coming year! The huge connecting days for cities with low O&D (CVG has lower O&D than PIT) are slowly coming to an end. This is my opinion.

O&D as of 2005-

CVG- (5,508,440)

PIT- (7,096,350)

Info as of June 2006-

CVG is served by 8 passenger carriers with service to 118 non-stop destinations. CVG had an average of 627 daily departures in June 2005 and for June 2006 has an average of 471 daily departures.



PIT is served by 12 passenger carriers with service to 73 non-stop destinations. PIT had an average of 319 daily flights for June 2005. For June 2006 PIT had an average of 280 daily flights.


I don't see CVG as a hub much longer!
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Laxatljfkcvg (Reply 9):
cvg should not be the only delta hub to cutback. Atl stl should also cutback.

WTF?!? Why would Delta even spare a micro-second thinking about cutting back ATL, and what does STL have to do with DL at all?
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1503
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:52 pm

TOL is dropping another one to 4x daily E135s. The route used to be 12x daily back with ACA. DL is not adding JFK nor any to ATL to compensate for the loss of seats to CVG.
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:21 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 11):
Why would Delta even spare a micro-second thinking about cutting back ATL

I would have to agree here! ATL is Delta's baby!

ATL O&D as of 2005- (26,226,920)


Delta would be stupid to drop any ATL flights.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
flyCMH
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:33 pm

It looks as though Delta has finally finished their September schedule. I'm not exactly sure what cutbacks are scheduled to occur at CVG, but other cities see some changes for the upcoming month. CMH looses frequencies to 3 cities, but as part of the JFK build-up, sees an increase in JFK flying by 2 flights, while a 4th flight is supposed to start in October, presumably in preparation for jetBlue's arrival in CMH:

SLC: 2x E70 ---> 1x E70
DCA: 2x CRJ, 1x ER4 --->1x E70, 1x CRJ
MCO: 1x CRJ, 1x ER3, 2x ER4 ---> 1x CRJ, 1x ER3, 1x ER4

JFK: 1x CRJ ---> 2x CRJ, 1x ERJ (additional CRJ in Nov.)

However, several routings, including DCA as mentioned above, get flights upgraded/added with Embraer 170s:

FLL: 1x ER4 ---> 1x E70
TPA: 2x ER4 ---> 1x E70, 1x ER4
ATL: 2x 738 (3x 738 on Tue/Wed/Fri), 2x M88, 1x ER4 ---> 3x 738, 1x M88, 2x E70, 1x ER4

Looking further into the schedules, it looks like the upgraded 170 routes go back to ERJs in October, except for ATL. I'm wondering if this has to do with Shuttle America's pullback from SLC as Skywest receives more CRJ-900/705s. Along with SLC-CMH being knocked down to 1x daily, it looks as though SLC-IND has been discontinued altogether for the fall schedule. The route is currently operated by Shuttle America.
 
VgnAtl747
Posts: 1333
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:50 pm

What DL needs to do is fix ATL baggage so it's not as pathetic as it is. I open more bag claims for people operating one segment, from ATL to my city, than another other senario. It's pathetic that someone can check in 2 hours before a flight out of ATL and their bag doesn't make the flight.
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
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chrisnh
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:01 am

Is that lone-wolf 737-200 between CVG and PWM (Portland, Maine) gone or going to go?? It's a single circuit each day; odd since most of the secondary New England cities have been reduced to RJs to/from CVG and ATL (except, I think, PVD and BDL).

Chris in NH
 
Delta787
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 8:13 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting ChrisNH (Reply 16):
Is that lone-wolf 737-200 between CVG and PWM (Portland, Maine) gone or going to go?? It's a single circuit each day; odd since most of the secondary New England cities have been reduced to RJs to/from CVG and ATL (except, I think, PVD and BDL).

Yes its gone. The route is going all RJs.
Fly Delta!
 
CentPIT
Posts: 978
Joined: Tue Dec 27, 2005 4:48 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:18 am

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
This September, CVG will retain mainline service to SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SNA, SAN, PHX, LAS, HNL, SLC, DEN, ABQ, TPA, SRQ, MCO, JAX, FLL, RSW, RDU, DCA, BWI, EWR, LGA, JFK, BDL, BOS, CMH, PIT, SDF, CUN, LGW, CDG, and FRA.

It is strange to see the mainline RON (B738) returning to Pittsburgh.
Pittsburgh International: US Airways---160 daily departures! (52 destinations)
 
FlyPNS1
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Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:19 am

While the number of frequencies moving through CVG is holding almost constant, CVG is losing additional capacity. The lost capacity is due to the retirement of the 732's (being replaced by smaller CRJ700's) and the replacement of CRJ's with smaller ER3's. Most of this downgrading has already been occurring over the past few months.
 
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SLCUT2777
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting FlyCMH (Reply 14):
it looks as though SLC-IND has been discontinued altogether for the fall schedule. The route is currently operated by Shuttle America.

This one really surprised me since the loads were there. I suspect a codeshare with CO or NW was wanted, but not available for a mainline flight as CLE became along with the shortage of mainline equipment. Perhaps NW will pick this one up as they start to build capacity. The retirement of the 733's and 732s impacting this and the desire to explore more opportunities with Shuttle America to maximize the SLC hub. Flying SLC-IND through CVG is a back-tracking pain!
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
jetlanta
Posts: 1664
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2001 2:35 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:01 am

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 19):
While the number of frequencies moving through CVG is holding almost constant, CVG is losing additional capacity. The lost capacity is due to the retirement of the 732's (being replaced by smaller CRJ700's) and the replacement of CRJ's with smaller ER3's. Most of this downgrading has already been occurring over the past few months.

True. But CVG is now performing very strongly and will likely see larger equipment over the course of time, as larger RJ's and smaller mainline aircraft are introduced into the fleet. The 732 retirements hurt pretty bad, but the good news is that the CVG hub has effectively been fixed and could now see some moderate growth into the future.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:54 am

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):
But CVG is now performing very strongly and will likely see larger equipment over the course of time, as larger RJ's and smaller mainline aircraft are introduced into the fleet. The 732 retirements hurt pretty bad, but the good news is that the CVG hub has effectively been fixed and could now see some moderate growth into the future.

Maybe, but there's another scenario that may also play out. As DL works to push fares higher (and they will), CVG will continue to take a larger brunt of the fare hikes. This will over time erode CVG's O+D numbers. In order to keep the right mix of O+D versus connecting, DL will further reduce capacity. I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility to see CVG get shrunken down to a MEM/CLE sized hub. In terms of mainline flights, it's just about there already.

In terms of growth using larger RJ's and new mainline, I expect most of that capacity will go to support JFK, ATL and SLC....all of which are more strategically important to DL.
 
jetlanta
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RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:43 pm

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
In terms of growth using larger RJ's and new mainline, I expect most of that capacity will go to support JFK, ATL and SLC....all of which are more strategically important to DL.

However, only ATL produces margins like CVG at the moment. Delta cannot continue to fund expansion at JFK and SLC without making sure that ATL and CVG are maximizing profits. At some point, this will mean optimizing the equipment mix at CVG. The Comair situation is causing some uncertainty for the moment, but CVG is too important to Delta right now in terms of actual performance not to get some attention as larger equipment (CR7, CR9, maybe a 100 seater) comes available.

I don't disagree with your observation, but as we head into 2007 and some of this year's big strategic network changes start to settle in, I think that you will see some new attention paid to CVG. 2006 is an investment year so JFK and SLC get lots of love, 2007 will be a p&l performance maximization year, so I think CVG is going to get some more attention as it is delivering now, with much less investment and sub-optimal equipment.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:33 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 23):
Delta cannot continue to fund expansion at JFK and SLC without making sure that ATL and CVG are maximizing profits

I think deltas planning on CVG to be RJ central. RJs are not much love  Sad Will CVG will become STL????



I believe Delta already has more mainline love to SLC, ATL, and maybe JFK than to CVG. I don't think delta will be showing much love to CVG in 2007. I think all the love will go to ATL, JFK, and SLC.

I think any love from DL will be from the connection carriers not on mainline flights.





--------------------------
From the other posts people estimated delta mainline( i dont feel like counting). I think this is the most accurate info oviously changing when you look seasonal flights etc. etc.

estimates
ATL 600 ish
SLC 95 ish
JFK 65 ish
CVG 60 ish
 
SESGDL
Posts: 2899
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:25 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:56 pm

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 24):
ATL 600 ish
SLC 95 ish
JFK 65 ish
CVG 60 ish

Yeah, those numbers are about right. Sad knowing that in DL's September 1997 timetable CVG had 220 mainline flights a day, with widebodies on CVG-SEA, PDX, SFO, LAX, SAN, PHX, SLC, DEN, ORD, LGA, BOS, MCO, TPA, FLL, and ATL as well as internationally to LGW, CDG, BRU, FRA, and ZRH. How times have changed.

Jeremy
 
Ih8b6
Posts: 203
Joined: Fri Apr 14, 2006 7:38 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:08 pm

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 21):
but the good news is that the CVG hub has effectively been fixed and could now see some moderate growth into the future.

"Moderate growth" it may be, but it will never be what it was....

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 23):
The Comair situation is causing some uncertainty for the moment, but CVG is too important to Delta right now in terms of actual performance not to get some attention as larger equipment (CR7, CR9, maybe a 100 seater) comes available.

Too bad "larger" equipment doesn't mean "mainline"

Quoting SlcDeltaRUmd11 (Reply 24):
I think deltas planning on CVG to be RJ central. RJs are not much love

CVG is and has been RJ central since Delta began slowly quietly pulling back on mainline service since 2000-01 era.

Quoting SESGDL (Reply 6):
Overall CVG will see around 440 daily flights to 120+ destinations this fall. All of these people saying CVG will be cut are wrong, CVG is going nowhere.

Cut from mainline flying is what it is. Like you said, 220+ a day on mainline in '97 and now in the 80 or so range a day in 06. What a difference 9 years makes!
Over-moderation sucks
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:20 pm



Any idea whether CVG - MSN flight frequency or capacity is changing, and if so, to what degree?




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank
 
skibum9
Posts: 862
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2001 1:13 pm

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:16 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
Cut from mainline flying is what it is. Like you said, 220+ a day on mainline in '97 and now in the 80 or so range a day in 06. What a difference 9 years makes!

Yep, I really miss taking that half empty L1011 from CVG to LGA. Those were the days!
Tailwinds!!!
 
iowaman
Posts: 3864
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 2:29 am

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting 2H4 (Reply 27):
Any idea whether CVG - MSN flight frequency or capacity is changing, and if so, to what degree?

CVG-MSN will go from 2x CR1 to 3x CR1 eff. 06 Sept.
 
2H4
Posts: 7960
Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 11:11 pm

RE: Sept. DL/CVG Flight Cuts

Sat Aug 26, 2006 4:47 am




Quoting Iowaman (Reply 29):
CVG-MSN will go from 2x CR1 to 3x CR1 eff. 06 Sept.

Thanks, Iowaman.  Smile




2H4


Intentionally Left Blank

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