Pan Am Pulls Out Of Orlando

MSYtristar · Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:23 pm

Now, the only 727 route flown by the Pan Am Clipper Connection is Atlanta to Tunica. It would seem that SFB and SJU are no long served, since they have dissapeared from the route map.

On the flip side, service to Elmira, NY and BWI begins soon.

How many times has this airline been in BWI over the past few years? Three at least I think.

What a strange airline. I still stand firm to my pledge that if I ever win the powerball, I will buy the Pan Am name from those losers and put it to rest.

Jamake1 · Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
What a strange airline. I still stand firm to my pledge that if I ever win the powerball, I will buy the Pan Am name from those losers and put it to rest.

That company is a disgrace. It sort of reminds me of the 3rd and 4th incarnations of Braniff International. I too would love to see the Pan Am name rest in peace. There was only one Pan Am.

Type-Rated · Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:38 pm

What are they flying into Tuncia, MS? They started service in there last May and according to their website they are still offering it. Three months, must be a near record for them keeping a route.
Anyone know if this route is successful for Pan Am?

MSYtristar · Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:41 pm

I think the route is subsidized by the Tunica casinos, so it must be doing ok.
You are right, it is strange to see them fly a route for this long of a time. They had a good run on SFB-SJU, but I guess all things come to an end.

ADXMatt · Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
On the flip side, service to Elmira, NY and BWI begins soon

The NE flights are on the Jetstream turbo props...

ATL-Tunica looks like the only 727 route.

It looks like Allegient is the new powerhouse in SFB. Bigger then TransMeridian ever was.

Is Pace still flying there for Vacation Express?

OzarkD9S · Tue Aug 22, 2006 8:35 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):

I will buy the Pan Am name from those losers and put it to rest.

Thank you.

ntspelich · Tue Aug 22, 2006 9:37 pm

I just can't see BWI-TTN being a successful route.

Fleet Service · Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:36 pm

Guilford is enjoying the tax write offs this circus wearing one of the most storied names in commercial aviation is generating for them.

About a month ago I almost had an accident driving under a railway bridge here in Queens, looking up as I approached the bridge I happened to see several blue box cars and closer inspection revealed the damn things were wearing the blue ball and said 'Pan Am'.I couldn't believe it.

Truly sad this great name is not being allowed to rest, I think after all it has accomplished, it deserves it.

UN_B732 · Tue Aug 22, 2006 10:53 pm

Or a decent entity finally takes the name - and makes the Pan Am team proud.
-Mr. X

roseflyer · Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:07 pm

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
What a strange airline. I still stand firm to my pledge that if I ever win the powerball, I will buy the Pan Am name from those losers and put it to rest.

One big problem is that you can't just buy a name and not use it. After a certain number of years, someone else can takeover a name and identity that is trademarked if it is not used. This is why US Airways named subsidiary carriers Piedmont and Allegheny, so that no other airline could start up and use those names that US Airways bought out at one point. So I doubt Pan Am versions will stop coming even after this one fails.

vtnyc · Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:29 pm

Some one should start a "Pan Am, Ver 4.0 Death Watch" thread or a "Pan Am, Ver 4.0, on life support watch" much like the Peter Max or Boeing deliveries threads.

VTNYC

MSYtristar · Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 9):
One big problem is that you can't just buy a name and not use it.

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. If that's the case, I'd use the name/logo to build a proper museum for the airline down near Dinner Key in Miami. And i'd sell logo merchandise with the proceeds going to retired employees of the original Pan Am.

flybp · Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:41 pm

I wonder if they are leaving PSM too cept for the J31s? Take a look at their Pan Am Services web page http://www.panamservices.com/hanger.html They have some 727s for sale, the pictures appear to be of the three they are currently using, the hanger at PSM is being offerred for subleasing, and some of the extra stuff (trucks, etc) is for sale. They were slam dunked on the approval for flying more of their 727s so you just hafta wonder what's going on. They are not on the Orlando Sanford Airport website anymore either...At the same time they are increasing the apparent utilization of the J31s expanding into even more territory...Press reports indicated that Elmira might involve 727 planes in the near future to places like Orlando, but might or might not be consistent with this other stuff...

bnamaxx · Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1):
That company is a disgrace. It sort of reminds me of the 3rd and 4th incarnations of Braniff International. I too would love to see the Pan Am name rest in peace. There was only one Pan Am.

So true. This is really sad. It just cheapens the legend that PA once was.

afay1 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:02 am

And everyone knows that pulling out is never the preferred method Wink

!!!

hiflyer · Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:12 am

Looks like they are closing up their 727 operation completely after reviewing that site. Wild speculation would be they have another fleet type coming and will not be located in NH anymore...common sense says shut down. Somewhere inbetween I guess.

DeltaRules · Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:19 am

I'm surprised to see them leave SFB. That seemed to be their base in the South & one of the only cities that's been constant for them over the last couple of years.

Somewhat sad to see. Like I've said before, I flew this airline to/from SFB last summer from LCK (when they had the route) & was impressed at the great service they had considering what a small airline they are. Other than that, they seem to be a pitiful little company. They own around 20 727s, yet the most I've ever heard of flying at a time is 3.

DeltaRules

kimmykun · Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:42 am

Looks like they dropped BQN, too. You know, again.

steeler83 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:47 am

I was about to ask how and why they're such a disgrace of an airline, but now it's becomming quite obvious... 20 727s, and not all entirely in use, among several other things? If that were me in charge, that WOULD be Pan Am flying again, and not some half-ass imposter... I see they have no IFE or any of that stuff the original PanAm used to have...

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1):
That company is a disgrace. It sort of reminds me of the 3rd and 4th incarnations of Braniff International. I too would love to see the Pan Am name rest in peace.

If I won the powerball, PanAm would be another "6 million dollar man" story - It would be bigger, stronger, better... you get the picture Smile

bnamaxx · Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:49 am

I didn't even know Tunica HAD an airport. This route almost HAS to be subsidized. It is only 30-40 miles from MEM which obviously has alot more flight options.

DeltaRules · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:01 am

Quoting Steeler83 (Reply 18):
I see they have no IFE or any of that stuff the original PanAm used to have...

I was on two of their 3 flying 727s last summer (N342PA, N348PA) & they both have interiors from UA. Makes sense, though, as those planes both flew for United before going to Pan Am.

DeltaRules

Type-Rated · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:12 am

The Tunica, MS area used to be one of the poorest regions of the state of Mississippi. When they began the "riverboat" type casinos it pumped a lot of needed cash into the area. A few airways fly right over Tunica. If you look down while overhead it really looks like something now. They have several huge casinos. So investors are pumping a lot of money into the town. Tunica attracts gamblers from all over the south. So it would not surprise me that the casinos would be subsidizing the route from ATL entirely on Pan Am one bit.
This is a story with a good ending. Tunica is providing a lot of jobs and other benefits to the citizens of the area. te standard of living has come up quite a bit for those living there.

Mainland · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:30 am

They've done charter work in the past, and I would venture to say that would be the focus for these 727s (And a majority of the airline itself) now. To the best of my knowledge they only had 3-6 of those 727s flying, but after seeing 5 up for sale on that website I don't think that's a real option anymore. Thoughts?

aal0616 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:32 am

Pan Am stopped flying to MCO in 1991.

This imposter is Guilford, trademark or no trademark being used as a front.

AirEMS · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:37 am

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1):
3rd and 4th incarnations of Braniff

I thought there were only 2? is the second one the one where the Livery is called the "Rebok" livery?

BatonOps · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:40 am

Any bets on how long the new service to ELM and BWI will last? I read someplace that ELM is the #3 market out of TTN. I wonder why???

bnamaxx · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:06 am

Quoting AirEMS (Reply 24):
I thought there were only 2? is the second one the one where the Livery is called the "Rebok" livery?

BN II was the restart of the original Braniff with the red/white/blue livery. Originally hubbed at DFW, then added the MCI hub and eventually dropped DFW to just a spoke to MCI and MCO (thanks to the FLorida Express merger). The "Reebok" was an experimental livery. All I know is I saw it landing at DFW once in the early/mid 80's and ran off the International Parkway while craning my neck to get a look. Someone correct me (nicely of course) but wasn't this version of BN the one that ordered the 320, a few of which even got painted?

BN III was a VERY short lived attempt using 72S painted in the original Braniff's "Ultra" schemes, with "Braniff International" titles.. They did fly some charters. Not sure if they ever actually flew scheduled routes.

Thank God there were no more.

Flyboy14295 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:14 am

Why a route from BWI to TTN? They are so close to eachother and I believe connected by Amtrak. You could also take a bus.

JohnJ · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:18 am

I went to Tunica to photograph the Pan Am 727 flight last week. They used "Clipper Guilford" for the flight I saw. Tunica has built a nice, brand-new terminal. In addition to the Pan Am 727 there was an untitled 737-200 sitting on the tarmac. And yes, the Tunica area is thriving on account of the casinos. Amazing the growth that area has experienced. Memphis' North Mississippi suburbs are the fastest-growing areas in the state, and I'd give Tunica at least part of the credit for that. I left Memphis in the late 1980s, and at that time Desoto County, MS (the county due south of Memphis) was a sleepy rural area. Now, a regional shopping mall is going in, tons of businesses have moved there and there are some beautiful new homes. Access to Tunica will only get better with the construction of Interstates 69 and 269 into the area in the next ten years. I'd love to see more charter operators begin flights there.

spinkid · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:25 am

[

Quoting Jamake1 (Reply 1):
That company is a disgrace. It sort of reminds me of the 3rd and 4th incarnations of Braniff International. I too would love to see the Pan Am name rest in peace. There was only one Pan Am.

Braniff did in fact only have III incarnations. The third was actually a much better unit than this Pan Am impostor.

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 26):
BN III was a VERY short lived attempt using 72S painted in the original Braniff's "Ultra" schemes, with "Braniff International" titles.. They did fly some charters. Not sure if they ever actually flew scheduled routes.

I give the 3rd Braniff Credit for at least going with the Ultra Color Schemes. I flew them a couple times JFK-MCO and FLL. They did indeed have scheduled service. They flew all 727's and I believe one DC-9. They made a good little run at things being a low fare carrier in the early 90's, but I don't think they ever had things in the right order to succeed.

MSYtristar · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 28):
there was an untitled 737-200 sitting on the tarmac

That would be the Sky King 737-200 which has been running weekly gambling junkets between MSY and Tunica. Talk about an aircraft that has seen better days! You should see how beat up the aft section is under the tail...I've never seen as many tail strikes in my life.

AwysBSB · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 16):
I'm surprised to see them leave SFB. That seemed to be their base in the South & one of the only cities that's been constant for them over the last couple of years.

Would TPA be a better market for PA III?
Where are being made the maintenance of E9`s 727s?

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 26):
BN III was a VERY short lived attempt using 72S painted in the original Braniff's "Ultra" schemes, with "Braniff International" titles..

What company is the owner of the brand "Braniff"?

IFEMaster · Wed Aug 23, 2006 6:06 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
I still stand firm to my pledge that if I ever win the powerball, I will buy the Pan Am name from those losers and put it to rest.

Interesting. I'd do the opposite. I'd buy it and turn in to an airline that flew to more places and provided an even better service than the original. It would be the envy of every airline out there.

srbmod · Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:19 am

Quoting ADXMatt (Reply 4):
Is Pace still flying there for Vacation Express?

According to Vacation Express' website, yes. Pan Am Clipper Connection is also listed as one as well (I thought that the reason why PACC started ATL-SFB service was because of Vacation Express, as they use SFB as a hub for their charters.), as is Xtra Airways (formerly Casino Express).

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 19):
I didn't even know Tunica HAD an airport. This route almost HAS to be subsidized. It is only 30-40 miles from MEM which obviously has alot more flight options.

They lengthened the runway and did some additional upgrades to attract airline service. One of the issues I've read regarding service into UTA is the coordination with the shuttle services to/from the airport. The twice a week service on Clipper Connection is a start. I would expect service from a "real" airline in the near future.

To the casinos, the drive from Memphis to Tunica is time that these players could have spent gambling. However much they are subsidizing PACC, it is worth it to them. With nearly all of the casinos in Tunica owned by the gaming companies that also own the casinos in the Gulfport/Biloxi area, they are trying really hard to keep their customers coming to their casinos. Getting service into UTA helps raise the area's profile. The drive from Memphis probably puts off some potential Tunica gamblers, as many gamblers are so used to getting off the plane and being at their hotel within 60 minutes and gambling shortly thereafter.

Another thing to factor in is that to get to Tunica from cities like Atlanta via car is a real pain in the butt. Tunica is not near any of the major interstates like the other casino areas in Mississippi. Flying there may be attractive to some instead of driving.

flight7e7 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:37 am

You know what is strange, EAL has never been reincarnated...Now there was a brand recognition. Then again, Lorenzo probabally has it under lock and key as a momento of making that his "Alamo". He clipped the "wings of man" although the real scoop on that was Frank Borman and his crew....the beginning of the real end! Who has EA's rights?

I watch the approaches to PHL.....and think-9's are gone, 27's are gone (except for NW and FE, respectively)....got excited the other day when a UPS refanned 8 flew overhead....brought back the days of living on Long Island about 25 miles east of JFK.....you never know what you will miss until you don't have it....

Are there any 8's either straight or refanned still in pax service somewhere in the world? If anyone knows of any, let me know.

Cheers.

bnamaxx · Wed Aug 23, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 29):
I give the 3rd Braniff Credit for at least going with the Ultra Color Schemes. I flew them a couple times JFK-MCO and FLL. They did indeed have scheduled service. They flew all 727's and I believe one DC-9. They made a good little run at things being a low fare carrier in the early 90's, but I don't think they ever had things in the right order to succeed.

Thanks for that update.

Quoting Flight7E7 (Reply 34):
You know what is strange, EAL has never been reincarnated...Now there was a brand recognition. Then again, Lorenzo probabally has it under lock and key as a momento of making that his "Alamo". He clipped the "wings of man" although the real scoop on that was Frank Borman and his crew....the beginning of the real end! Who has EA's rights?

There was talk on "New Eastern" at one time. I saw a artist impression of a 757 (in ATW mag I think it was) with the old EA logo in the circle on the tail. It looked nice. Too bad.

MCOflyer · Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:18 am

Quoting MSYtristar (Thread starter):
On the flip side, service to Elmira, NY and BWI begins soon.

I wonder how long this will last. US and NW dominate ELM. Until about 2000 US used to be the only carrier until NW Airlink came along. We had D93 service till about 2001. I remeber flying into ELM aboard a 732.

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 25):
I read someplace that ELM is the #3 market out of TTN. I wonder why???

Corning Glass Company. My Grand Pa used to work there. He traveled to Russia and a lot of places. He mostly flew out of ELM or ITH.

If the 727's do go into ELM it'll be great to see them. They could probaly start up a weekly service to SFB.

MCOflyer

FCYTravis · Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 26):
Someone correct me (nicely of course) but wasn't this version of BN the one that ordered the 320, a few of which even got painted?

Yes... and some of those aircraft ended up being leased to America West after BI-2 went kablooie - they're the subfleet with the "old-style" First Class seating, I believe. I've seen a picture of one of them being stripped and repainted into the new US Airways color scheme... when they took the America West colors off, you could still read the BRANIFF billboard lettering on the side!

srbmod · Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:57 am

Quoting Flight7E7 (Reply 34):
EAL has never been reincarnated...Now there was a brand recognition.

A bad one at that, and that predates Francisco Lorenzo. What can be said of the first airline to have a "hate club" established (WHEAL, We Hate Eastern Air Lines) by disgruntled passengers.

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 35):
There was talk on "New Eastern" at one time. I saw a artist impression of a 757 (in ATW mag I think it was) with the old EA logo in the circle on the tail. It looked nice. Too bad.

Was to have been started by some ex-Eastern folks but couldn't raise the capital to get started up. Martin Shagrue was briefly involved in this as well before moving on to help start Pan Am mk.2.

Airportguy1971 · Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:31 am

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 37):
Yes... and some of those aircraft ended up being leased to America West after BI-2 went kablooie - they're the subfleet with the "old-style" First Class seating, I believe. I've seen a picture of one of them being stripped and repainted into the new US Airways color scheme... when they took the America West colors off, you could still read the BRANIFF billboard lettering on the side!

From this...

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

chrisnh · Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:41 am

Drunks get thrown out of bars and then go on to the next one. They get thrown out, and go to the next one. There's a perfect metaphor if I ever saw one.

727LOVER · Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:53 am

Quoting Spinkid (Reply 29):
Braniff did in fact only have III incarnations.

Well, actually there were 5....but that's for another thread. wink

Quoting AwysBSB (Reply 31):
Would TPA be a better market for PA III?

GOD NO!!! DON'T SEND THEM HERE!!!

ClearedDirect · Wed Aug 23, 2006 11:39 am

The Eastern Name and Logo is owned and maintained in Miami - forget the name of the holder but they actually have an office somewhere in Miami.

spinkid · Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting Flybp (Reply 12):
Take a look at their Pan Am Services web page http://www.panamservices.com/hanger.html They have some 727s for sale, the pictures appear to be of the three they are currently using, the hanger at PSM is being offerred for subleasing, and some of the extra stuff (trucks, etc) is for sale.

I cracked up looking at the site. Awesome Airliners, cool ariline equipment and it is listed like it is for a garage sale. Maybe they should try Craig's List for it Smile

MSYtristar · Wed Aug 23, 2006 3:41 pm

A 727 for a little over a million bucks? Who wants in? I'm good for $2000!

PlanesNTrains · Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:13 pm

Quoting Bnamaxx (Reply 13):
So true. This is really sad. It just cheapens the legend that PA once was.

It's the same way I feel when I see a cartoonish Colonel Sanders breakdancing on a KFC commercial. I mean, the guy must be rolling over in his grave.

Okay, Kentucky Fried Chicken wasn't a legend, but my daughter worships Popcorn Chicken, so I hope that counts Smile

.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 37):
Yes... and some of those aircraft ended up being leased to America West after BI-2 went kablooie -

Correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't the Braniff A320's originally part of a 16+34 order for A320s by the original Pan Am? If so, they went Pan Am to Braniff to America West to US Airways.

-Dave

milesrich · Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:45 pm

When Pan Am purchased all of those UA 727-222A's, they were doomed. Forget about their poor management and strategy, cities served like GYY etc. No start up that used the three holers ever made it. And the list of failures is a long one. Three crew members, high fuel burn, is not a winning formula for an LCC. The 727 was a great aircraft, lots of lift, lots of payload, but without a hold full of cargo, selling cheap seats will never make it profitable, especially in this era of $70.00/bbl oil. My first 727 flight was in March of 1964, and my last was in November of 2001. May she rest in peace, and keep carrying cargo for the foreseeable future. But 727 passenger service is a thing of the past.

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