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chase
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Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 12:44 am

A while ago it seemed like there was a new thread on TZ every week. Now no news in quite awhile. Anybody have anything to share?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:45 am

Consecutive Month
Friday August 4, 8:00 am ET
July Scheduled Service Traffic Up 9.3 Points


INDIANAPOLIS, Aug. 4, 2006 (PRIMEZONE) -- ATA Airlines today reported that its July scheduled service passenger load factor increased 9.3 points to 92.0 percent, an all time record for the second consecutive month. ``We continue to be pleased that people are choosing ATA as their preferred low cost airline,'' says ATA Executive Vice President and Chief Operating Officer, Subodh Karnik. ``It indicates we're offering our customers attractive and affordable fares and services and it is testimony to the codeshare relationship that we have in place with Southwest Airlines.''

There were 250,462 passengers enplaned in July, a decrease of 54.4 percent over 2005. July scheduled service traffic decreased 42.2 percent from 2005 to 408.9 million RPMs (revenue passenger miles). Capacity decreased 48.0 percent compared to 2005 to 444.6 million ASMs (available seat miles).

As of June 30, 2006, ATA has a fleet of 3 Boeing 737-300s, 12 Boeing 737-800s, 6 Boeing 757-200s, 4 Boeing 757-300s and 4 Lockheed L-1011s.



ATA Airlines Scheduled Service Statistics
..................................................2006.......2005........Change

July
Revenue Passenger Miles (RPMs)......408,899.......707,626.....-42.2%
Available Seat Miles (ASMs) (000s)...444,641.......855,384.....-48.0%
Load Factor....................................92.0%.........82.7%.......9.3 pts
Passengers Enplaned......................250,462.......548,810......-54.4%
Passenger Trip Length.....................1,633...........1,289.......26.7%

Year-To-Date
Revenue Passenger Miles (RPMs).....2,358,723......4,246,389....-44.5%
Available Seat Miles (ASMs) (000s)..2,963,534.....6,231,593.....-52.4%
Load Factor...................................79.6%...........68.1%.........11.5 pts
Passengers Enplaned......................1,572,627........3,391,524......-53.6%
Passenger Trip Length.....................1,500............1,252...........19.8%

ATA Airlines Charter Service Statistics
Year-To-Date
Revenue Passenger Miles (RPMs).....922,283........1,218,894.......-24.3%
Available Seat Miles (ASMs) (000s)..1,810,944......2,340,367........-22.6%
Passengers Enplaned.......................200,330........250,800.........-20.1%

See for full article:
http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/060804/103269.html

[Edited 2006-08-22 18:57:22]

[Edited 2006-08-22 18:58:35]
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chase
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:31 am

Thanks, RoseFlyer!

(filler)
 
wjcandee
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 8:43 am

I don't know what the utilization level is on their sked pax fleet, but it certainly seems that they are achieving amazing load factors on the flights that they do fly. Good for them!
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 1:15 pm

A decision on L-1011 replacements is imminent within the next few weeks. It will either be 9 ex-NWA DC10-30s over 4 months beginning in November or 767-300s as they become available with one in-service by March, 2007 to avoid a D check of L-1011-500 N161AT.

Also, the IND line maintenance station is being downsized since there is no regular flights here and DFW is being built-up. More aircraft transition through DFW (both scheduled and charter) and its closer to our heavy maintenance provider San Antonio Aerospace (SAA). There should be several dozen maintenance openings in DFW soon.

Lastly, all ground ops in MDW is being outsourced to WN.
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drerx7
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:05 pm

Those TriStar replacements--will they strictly CRAF use or will they find their way into scheduled/civilian charter services?
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
B757capt
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:07 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):

I have heard that the outsourcing includes the international flights, and the inside folks are being outsourced as well. Airtran just got all the back offices behind their ticket counter about 3 weeks ago.
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wjcandee
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:53 pm

Hopefully, some of the loyal ATA people can find opportunities at WN. The outsourcing really sucks for them. But from a survival-of-the-airline perspective, these moves probably make a lot of business sense. WN has a strong operation at MDW, and there's no doubt they know how to turn and fix 737s, and TZ can be comfortable with the quality of their work and workmanship. The inside job situation is more curious; last time I looked, ATA used a lot of SABRE software, and the ticketing and gate processes are totally different. Not that WN folks couldn't learn them, but, wow, ticketing and boarding an ATA flight is a totally different animal than the same jobs for a WN flight.
 
B757capt
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:05 pm

well to start it was just interesting that the ground guys will be handling 757's. For them this will be a test.
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NYCTZ
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RE: Any TZ News?

Wed Aug 23, 2006 10:50 pm

From what I've heard WN is going to handle under the wing services only at MDW and our own CSA's would remain.

Whatever the case, I wish all the ground staff in MDW the best, both under and over the wing. They've been through alot the past few years as we all have and deserve some clear skies for awhile!
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:04 am

Quoting Drerx7 (Reply 5):
Those TriStar replacements--will they strictly CRAF use or will they find their way into scheduled/civilian charter services?

They will predominantly be used for military charters, but also any commercial charter work. I don't believe we will see any on scheduled services.
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ATA767
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:06 am

ATA has not announced any schedule changes for the fall which makes me think they have something brewing. If they are going to get the DC-10s that would change a lot of things with the schedule service arena even if slightly. For one they need to head back to Florida we miss them here!
 
ATA767
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:09 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 10):
They will predominantly be used for military charters, but also any commercial charter work. I don't believe we will see any on scheduled services.

true but it will cause the 757's now in milatary service to be shifted to scheduled service and create the ability to increase frequency and add a route or two.
 
chase
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 3:05 am

When you say the people inside have been outsourced...sorry that I don't remember the name, but do you mean that to include the people in the office underneath the end of the B concourse who decide what a/c goes to what gate? I went up there a few times to install some software for them and it would be sad if they were outsourced as well.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 11):
If they are going to get the DC-10s that would change a lot of things with the schedule service arena even if slightly.



Quoting ATA767 (Reply 12):
true but it will cause the 757's now in milatary service to be shifted to scheduled service and create the ability to increase frequency and add a route or two.

I would not expect it to change the scheduled service side much since I expect the 4 757-300s may be returned with the addition of 9 DC10-30s. The 753's are too big for ATA scheduled service and not optimal (poor range) for charter. The 3 757-200s that are currently used in charter only would probably be freed up to return to scheduled service for the most part.
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NYCTZ
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:08 am

Hey TZTriStar500!

Any info or speculation on what may happen to the L10's ? Just wondering as two have been through recent D-checks.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:51 am

I don't think the 753's will go away anytime soon. Even though they have range limitations, AMC seems to like them and they're heavily used. They're also used a lot on domestic charters, something ATA is doing more and more of. Their reliability is stellar, I don't think I've had an MX delay more than once in the 18 months I've been on the road for them. And that was just a weatherstripping that came loose.

If nine DC-10's come online, I'm sure the L-10's will be collectively retired pretty quick. If not, we'll probably see 162 and 163 around for a while longer.
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ntspelich
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:24 am

Quoting B757capt (Reply 8):
well to start it was just interesting that the ground guys will be handling 757's. For them this will be a test.

Not really, we've been doing it out west for awhile already.
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Falcon Flyer
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:00 am

Although the 767-300 would seem to be ideal to replace the 1011s, I'm surprised they're considering DC10-30s over the MD-11. I know they're pretty rare these days with FedEx and UPS snapping them up where ever possible, but surely there are a few over in Asia that would allow for a small fleet. I would think the newer technology and other factors would be more of a benefit than the older Douglas birds.
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airstatdfw
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:04 am

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 16):
I don't think I've had an MX delay more than once in the 18 months I've been on the road for them. And that was just a weatherstripping that came loose.

Well I flew them over to Kuwait last month and we had to divert into IND for a Hydro leak. We spent 5 hrs there. I was expecting problems with the L1011 not the 757-300 but once we got going again it was a nice flight. We met the returning flight in SNN its was nice see 2 ATA 757-300 in SNN at the same time.

AirStatDFW
 
BH
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:34 am

Just when i was getting use too seeing the "new" paint scheme on the L1011's, i hear about the Northwest DC-10 deal.Seriously though,i have had the pleasure of working with some of the finest TZ crews around.From the flight crews,soc,mx,and the ground reps.A great bunch of people.Hope the MDW guys land on there feet.

Not here as frequently as before but we still get her once in a awhile .
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ATA767
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting Chase (Thread starter):
I would not expect it to change the scheduled service side much since I expect the 4 757-300s may be returned with the addition of 9 DC10-30s. The 753's are too big for ATA scheduled service and not optimal (poor range) for charter. The 3 757-200s that are currently used in charter only would probably be freed up to return to scheduled service for the most part.

The 757-300 will be around, they can still do Hawaii on the west coast with no problem. Management has hinted at this increase in scheduled service paradigm if they replace the L10's with something else.

ATA is actually catching up and although not ready to expand very quickly, has to get ready for the 30% growth in 2007 that they spoke of in their business plan. if they do not expand their schedule service to increase utilization and drive the coast of leasing these planes down, they will fall victim to energy and competitive pressures.
 
COERJ145
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:24 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 14):
I would not expect it to change the scheduled service side much since I expect the 4 757-300s may be returned with the addition of 9 DC10-30s. The 753's are too big for ATA scheduled service and not optimal (poor range) for charter.

If they ATA 753s go, CO or NW may be interested due to their outstanding economics on short-midrange flights. Both CO and NW have a small 753 fleet, with CO at 17, and NW at 16. I think ATA was going to trade them to CO in exchange for some of CO's 73Gs awhile ago, but that deal never went through.
 
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LN-MOW
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:49 am

CO might - NW not. NW's have P&W engines.
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2000first
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 10:17 am

whatever happened to the fairly large european charter prgramme that ATA used to have?

I remember seeing their planes at airports all over the uk, and from belfast alone they used to fly to JFK and MCO.

Woudl be nice to see them back in europe again!
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting NYCTZ (Reply 15):
Any info or speculation on what may happen to the L10's ? Just wondering as two have been through recent D-checks.

They will soldier on for awhile, but be gradually replaced by the DC10s (if this happens) as they reach major checks. 161 would be retired in March 2007, and the rest likely over the balance of the year as the DC10s take over. Yes, the D checks were a rather large investment, but if you think about it, we had no choice since we need the aircraft desperately.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 16):
I don't think the 753's will go away anytime soon.

I'm not so sure, but I guess we'll see.

Quoting LN-MOW (Reply 16):
If nine DC-10's come online, I'm sure the L-10's will be collectively retired pretty quick. If not, we'll probably see 162 and 163 around for a while longer.

I believe the aircraft would be retired as they reach C checks and not just because they were D checked

Quoting Falcon Flyer (Reply 18):
I'm surprised they're considering DC10-30s over the MD-11. I know they're pretty rare these days with FedEx and UPS snapping them up where ever possible, but surely there are a few over in Asia that would allow for a small fleet. I would think the newer technology and other factors would be more of a benefit than the older Douglas birds.

There are no passenger MD-11s left on the market. The only Asian birds are with Thai and they are already spoken for by UPS.

Quoting BH (Reply 20):
Just when i was getting use too seeing the "new" paint scheme on the L1011's, i hear about the Northwest DC-10 deal.

Oh, you'll see 'em for at least another year or two. 164 will get painted in October during D check and then all 3 (162, 163, 164) will get ATA logo placards on the fuselage soon.

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 21):
The 757-300 will be around, they can still do Hawaii on the west coast with no problem. Management has hinted at this increase in scheduled service paradigm if they replace the L10's with something else.

The 753s will NOT return to Hawaii service. The capacity is too great for that market without a block seat agreement like Pleasant Hawaiian or more connection feed. The L10 replacement has little to nothing or an effect on schedules service other than to perhaps free up a 757-200 or two. Any significant increase in scheduled service will be with more 737NGs.

Quoting ATA767 (Reply 21):
if they do not expand their schedule service to increase utilization and drive the coast of leasing these planes down, they will fall victim to energy and competitive pressures.

Utilization has never been higher now and the lease costs were reduced to rock-bottom during bankruptcy. Yes, fuel costs are ominous, but what competitive pressures do you mean when we are the exclusive codeshare partner of revenue machine Southwest?

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 22):
I think ATA was going to trade them to CO in exchange for some of CO's 73Gs awhile ago, but that deal never went through.

They were going to be returned to Boeing (as lessor) along with the other 8 already returned for subsequent lease to CO. The 4-7 737-700s were being returned to Boeing from CO and then were to be leased to ATA, but our scheduled business plan changed, more nearrowbody aircraft were not needed, and the deal was shelved.

Quoting 2000first (Reply 24):
whatever happened to the fairly large european charter prgramme that ATA used to have?

It was lost out to cheaper European charter operators.
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stlgph
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:39 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 4):
to avoid a D check of L-1011-500 N161AT.

how much does that cost.....roughly?
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moman
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 1:49 pm

I got 2 pics of ATA jets at DFW yesterday. There was a L1011 in line for takeoff, followed by a 757-300. The pics will be in the queue shortly, but any ideas on why they were both there?
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wjcandee
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:40 pm

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 25):
164 will get painted in October during D check

Boy, I guess I forgot your post from June that 164 was definitely getting D-checked in October. With 3 recently-D-checked birds to be replaced around the same time, I guess it's conceivable that these aircraft could find life later working for some other airline outside of the US. They'll certainly be in better shape than some of the few L1011s remaining out there.

Anyway, nice that they'll get a nice look before they retire or get sold.

As to the 753s being discussed above, I think that their future with TZ is going to depend largely on whether AMC has enough missions for them that they wouldn't prefer to handle with a DC10. Judging from how well North American and Omni are doing finding commercial charter applications for their 752s, it seems to me that those aircraft have potential applications outside the military, and that might be true as well (although to a lesser degree) with the 753. However, only ATA knows how well it has been able to do at selling the 753 for commercial charter. Unless it's a big moneymaker on the commercial charter side, or unless AMC really loves the thing, ATA can probably work a decent deal with Boeing to trade them for something else that they could better use, while Boeing places them at CO. (I think the scuttlebut is pretty clear that CO would like to have them, if they can be had at a fair price. Conversely, and I just don't know the answer, Boeing could be getting more for them from TZ than CO is paying for its 753 fleet. They certainly were under the pre-bankruptcy leases.)

However, there are just too many factors involved in the decision that are known only to TZ and not to me. Certainly trading 753s for DC10s is going to result in a major dispatch-reliability hit; I have to think that there's no way around that. And unless they continue to have their little tails flown off on a combination of military and commercial charter, they are likely too new and too expensive to keep around just for irregular commercial charter. In other words, they cost a lot to leave sitting around, probably far too much just to service commercial charter. I could be wrong, but the economics of commercial charter -- absent a really good wet-lease or track charter -- don't typically work well for new aircraft. (Of course, that's a little different now that fuel is such a factor; Falcon Air went into the toilet precisely because the fuel consumption of its aircraft made them less desireable to charter customers, and Miami Air's 738s start to look like a smart purchase; OTOH, Champion seems to soldier on just fine with its 727s, so it really does depend on who your customers are and what their priorities are.)

Okay, I guess I have burned enough bandwith identifying the factors (capital cost, fuel, utilization, quality of charter customers, current state of charter market, etc.) without being able to put any current numbers into those slots, particularly as it concerns a carrier like TZ.

[Edited 2006-08-24 07:57:19]
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting STLGph (Reply 26):
how much does that cost.....roughly?

An L-1011 D check costs between $4-5 million

Quoting MoMan (Reply 27):
I got 2 pics of ATA jets at DFW yesterday. There was a L1011 in line for takeoff, followed by a 757-300. The pics will be in the queue shortly, but any ideas on why they were both there?

These aircraft type regularly transition through DFW because it is a primary destination for AMC charters of US troops to the Middle East.
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474218
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RE: Any TZ News?

Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:09 pm

TZTriStar500,

If the NW DC-10-30 deal goes through how long does TZ plan on flying them? When are they due D-Checks? DC-10-30's have a Service Life Goal of 30,000 cycles, has Boeing established a work package to extend this further and is TZ ready to spend the money to extend their service life? Or are the DC-10 just a stopgap?

Tell "Three Fingers Engineering" hello.

Carl
 
b52murph
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RE: Any TZ News?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 28):
Boy, I guess I forgot your post from June that 164 was definitely getting D-checked in October. With 3 recently-D-checked birds to be replaced around the same time, I guess it's conceivable that these aircraft could find life later working for some other airline outside of the US. They'll certainly be in better shape than some of the few L1011s remaining out there.

Do they do any interior work during a D-check? I flew 162 about three weeks ago BWI-RMS-ADA (Seat 19J...middle....ugg) and the interior was definitely more than a year or two old, with an exceptionally dim movie projector (albeit, nice to have a big screen at the front instead of small monitors) and several seat covers that were torn.
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting 474218 (Reply 30):
If the NW DC-10-30 deal goes through how long does TZ plan on flying them? When are they due D-Checks? DC-10-30's have a Service Life Goal of 30,000 cycles, has Boeing established a work package to extend this further and is TZ ready to spend the money to extend their service life? Or are the DC-10 just a stopgap?

Carl

I have been told they would be a "stop-gap" measure for 4-5 years until 767-300ERs become very abundant due to 787 deliveries. However, it is not a done deal yet and there is still a chance we will begin with the 767-300ERs now and skip the DC10s all together.

Quoting 474218 (Reply 30):
Tell "Three Fingers Engineering" hello.

I will do that, Carl.

Quoting B52murph (Reply 31):
Do they do any interior work during a D-check?

Yes, they do, but just an inspection and repair/replacement as necessary. This aircraft type has virtually NO spares so we do our best with what we have. It is getting nearly impossible to support and interior parts like seat covers are not abundant. I'm sorry to hear 162 is in such shape, but it goes into C check in about a week.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.
 
wjcandee
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RE: Any TZ News?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:22 am

Quoting TZTriStar500 (Reply 32):
but it goes into C check in about a week

Is that a full "C" or just an HSV? Or am I off-base and talking from another portion of my body?

PS See, I always mention those projectors because it seems like nobody ever tunes the dang a/v equipment -- on practically any airline. (Of course, I'm sure that it does get done, and that it's on a work card somewhere, but perhaps not as frequently as would be optimal.)
 
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TZTriStar500
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RE: Any TZ News?

Sat Aug 26, 2006 2:21 pm

Quoting Wjcandee (Reply 33):
Is that a full "C" or just an HSV? Or am I off-base and talking from another portion of my body?

No problem  Smile Yes, it is a full C blocked for 45 days and then 164 follows with its D check also blocked at 45 days, but will likely be closer to 60 or more.
35 years of American Trans Air/ATA Airlines, 1973-2008. A great little airline that will not be soon forgotten.

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