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tommy767
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Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:40 am

I remember when the revamped T-4 opened in 2002, AA was serving some mainline cities that are now discontinued. From what I remember, they were flying Red-eyes to BDL on 738s and PHL on 757s. I have also heard that they used to served TUL, ABQ, and PHX all of which are now dropped. Can anyone shead some light?
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FoxBravo
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:51 am

I know they were flying LAX-PHX in the summer of 2001 when I flew that route. The aircraft was a white ex-Reno Air MD-80 and the flight left from the crappy old T3, so it was sort of a strange experience, not really consistent with AA's usual product. I don't know when exactly they dropped this or the other routes you mentioned, but I believe they continued certain cities including ABQ and possibly PHX with Eagle ERJs before dropping them completely. I'm sure MAH4546 or other AA experts can provide more details.
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:02 am

AA also did LAX-CDG with a 763.
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SJUSXM
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:47 am

AA never had LAX-PHL flights although there was talk of adding them, but sadly it never materialized
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commavia
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:27 am

A (not so) brief history of American's tumultuous expansion and retraction in the west in the between 1998 and 2001:

It all started way back on April 20, 1998. That's they day that American applied with the DoT to operate a daily, nonstop flight from San Jose to London (Gatwick). This was indicative of American's growing interest in the region, and the San Jose hub in particularly, and foreshadowed the announcement that would come less than six months later ...

On November 19, 1998, American announced to the world that it was buying Reno Air to "make the AA brand more accessible in the West," and basically give West Coast AAdvantage members more opportunities to earn and burn miles. Reno, as it would have it, had a major hub in San Jose, and a large and growing hub in Los Angeles, plus a major presence at Orange County, all three airports major focuses of American's expansion strategy for the West Coast.

March 2, 1999, saw the introduction of two new fleet types in the AA fleet -- the 737-800 and the 777 -- on the same day. Both of the first 737 routes for American were to LAX: flight 485 from Chicago, and flight 77 (later of 9/11 infamy) from Washington Dulles. Again, indicative of the growing importance and profile of Los Angeles, California and the West Coast in the overall American Airlines network.

On March 23, 1999, American announced that it would be starting a single daily flight each direction between San Jose and both Orange County and San Diego using nAAtive 757 (SNA) and MD-80 (SAN) equipment before the Reno Air cutover took place.

On April 28, 1999, American announced one of the largest single expansions ever tied to a specific region, with seven new nonstop routes and increased serve in 12 existing markets. Among the routes added were a daily nonstop Los Angeles-Paris flight which lasted only a brief period because of competition on the route from United and the lack of premium demand vs. Air France, the route's heavy hitter.

The San Jose-Tokyo and Seattle-Tokyo routes both transitioned to the larger, more efficient Boeing 777 from May 1 that year, and Seattle-New York JFK and Seattle-Boston service were inaugurated on May 1 and June 1, respectively. Los Angeles-Hartford service, operated daily and nonstop with a 737-800 and timed in both directions for connections to and from Hawaii and QANTAS' South Pacific flights, launched July 2 of that summer.

July 28, 1999 saw the opening of American Eagle's (soon-to-be-closed in late 2006) remote terminal building at LAX, still the only completely covered-boarding regional terminal facility at the airport, linked to American's Terminal 4 (and later other partners' terminals) via high-frequency buses.

August 31, 1999 was the big day -- the cutover from Reno Air to American. From that date, all reservations were transitioned to SABRE, all routes marketed solely under the American name, and all flights carrying an AA code. American overnight gained access to thousands of daily passengers flying up and down the west coast, but most importantly, into and out of LAX, San Jose and Orange County, which remained the airline's primary focus. New routes were added into the system like LAX-San Francisco, San Jose-Las Vegas, and even LAX-Colorado Springs.

On September 13, 1999, American announced two new LAX routes to further bolster the growing hub -- Orlando, to launch on December 16, 1999, and Houston Hobby, to launch on March 2, 2000, flown with a daily 757 and twice-daily MD-80s, respectively.

On April 10, 2000, American announced that it was basically getting rid of the former Reno Air's major operations at Reno and Las Vegas, Nevada, and instead reinvesting resources and shifting focus to LAX and San Jose. From LAX, American announced four new routes -- Denver, Oakland, Phoenix and St. Louis -- and resumption of Hartford service, all starting that summer. From San Jose, the airline launched flights to three new destinations -- Denver, Honolulu and Phoenix. Both cities also got greatly expanded service on several existing routes (including up to five daily LAX-BOS flights, eight daily LAX-LAS flights, and ten daily SJC-DFW flights, all amazing considering how much these routes have been pared in recent years.)

American continued to basically hum along during 2000 and 2001, with 2001 seeing the TWA merger and a slightly increased presence at a few West Coast stations essentially amounting to new flights to St. Louis, and maybe an extra frequency or two in a few transcon markets like JFK-LAX/SFO. During this period, although I don't know the exact date, American also launched Los Angeles-Toronto to help get QANTAS passengers coming into LAX from the South Pacific to Canada's largest city.

Then came September 11, 2001, the day the [airline] world stood still. Within weeks, routes and flights got cut, schedules trimmed, and worked laid off. The basic skeleton of American's West Coast hubs remained in place through the rest of 2001, and into 2002, but many routes were cut immediately after the attacks and never returned. By 2003, many flights had went away, including flights to the new (ex-TWA) St. Louis hub from cities like Portland and Reno.

On December 10, 2001, just under two months after the attacks, American tried to salvage some of its presence at the two hubs it had just spend three years building by using Eagle Embraer ERJ-140 44-seat regional jets to hold American's presence in a few key West Coast markets, namely LAX-Oakland, LAX-Phoenix, and San Jose-Phoenix, and to launch two completely new routes to American -- LAX-Albuquerque and LAX-Sacramento. All these flights lasted less than a year before finally getting cancelled.

Quoting Tommy767 (Thread starter):
BDL on 738s and PHL on 757s

Hartford got a single daily 737 up until 9/11. That put an end to the route. LAX-PHL, however, has not had American Airlines nonstop service since the late 1970s or early 1980s, at the latest. By 1976, the route was being served once daily with a 707.

Quoting Tommy767 (Thread starter):
TUL, ABQ, and PHX all of which are now dropped

Tulsa was served nonstop from LAX around the 1999-2001 period, but ended, if I'm not mistaken, during 2001, though I don't remember if it was before or after 9/11. The route was put in place largely as a positioning flight to rotate the growing number of American MD-80s based on the West Coast into American's largest maintenance base in Tulsa for overhauls.

Albuquerque was served for only a brief period of less than one year back in 2002 as a scheduling mechanism to shuttle Eagle ERJ-140s back and forth between DFW and Los Angeles. Phoenix was first brought in as a mainline route back in 2000, canned after 9/11, and then restarted with Eagle flights during 2002 for a very brief period of less than one year.
 
flyboyaz
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:37 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
On November 19, 1998, American announced to the world that it was buying Reno Air to "make the AA brand more accessible in the West," and basically give West Coast AAdvantage members more opportunities to earn and burn miles.

Uh...isn't that why they bought AirCal? What happened to THAT operation...hmmmmm...
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commavia
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Flyboyaz (Reply 5):
Uh...isn't that why they bought AirCal? What happened to THAT operation...hmmmmm...

Well, that was back in 1987, and I was only writing about the period from 1998-2002. The first West Coast build-up, in 1987 with the purchase of AirCal, ended with AA abandoning most all of the routes it got from the merger in the early 1990s when the economy collapsed.
 
AlitaliaMD11
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:40 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
saw the opening of American Eagle's (soon-to-be-closed in late 2006)

What will be American Eagles new gate area?
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flyboyaz
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 6):
Well, that was back in 1987, and I was only writing about the period from 1998-2002. The first West Coast build-up, in 1987 with the purchase of AirCal, ended with AA abandoning most all of the routes it got from the merger in the early 1990s when the economy collapsed.

Yeah it's sad really...of course that is shadowed by the blunder of US's purchase of PSA. It's just funny that both AA and US realized there was no money in the markets and abandoned them.
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aaway
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:06 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Among the routes added were a daily nonstop Los Angeles-Paris flight which lasted only a brief period because of competition on the route from United and the lack of premium demand vs. Air France, the route's heavy hitter.

Another reason this route failed was due to the French government's decision to transfer most international pax services from Orly to CDG. Initially, AA flew LAX-ORY-LAX and benefitted from codeshare feed at ORY with the now defunct Air Liberte which, at that time, was France's second largest domestic carrier. Obviously, the mandated transfer of services left AA without a partner in the face of the AF juggernaut at CDG.

Though always lacking on premium demand, LAX-ORY-LAX was a stronger performer than LAX-CDG-LAX.
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BigGSFO
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 9:11 am

Although not a power lifter, AA (Eagle) recently discontinued LAX-PSP.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:29 am

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):

Thanks for the good summary.


Other AA flights which have disappeared in SoCal include the closure of LGB completely with the dropping of LGB-JFK and LGB-DFW service. AA had quite some history operating in LGB for atleast 20+ years since the early 80s.
In addition SNA-JFK was dropped in 2005 which was a route inherited from TWA and was Orange Counties, first and for a long time only nonstop link to NYC.

While AA operations seems to have stabilized at LAX the last couple of years, it will be interesting to see what direction the company takes in the coming few years as it looses the AE terminal and all its maintenance facilities as the LAX Masterplan starts taking hold.

There are no plans for a AE facility replacement which leads one to believe either the service will disappear completely, or the carrier will have to sacrifice T-4 gates for the operation. In regards to the maintenance facility AA does hold rights, to construct a single hangar as replacement for the 3 which will get torn down. However again there has been no indication of which way AA intends to move.
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adipasqu
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:07 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
There are no plans for a AE facility replacement which leads one to believe either the service will disappear completely, or the carrier will have to sacrifice T-4 gates for the operation.

That's a lot of flights and connecting traffic to be cut all at once if it doesn't get moved somewhere. Could they use parts of T3 or T5 for AE ops? I know Delta wouldn't like them coming into T5, but DL really can't justify keeping it all to themselves with all of their LAX cutbacks.
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COERJ145
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:23 am

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 12):
I know Delta wouldn't like them coming into T5, but DL really can't justify keeping it all to themselves with all of their LAX cutbacks.

DL just announced a large LAX expansion. By the time their done, T5 will be pretty much full. http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10323
 
deltasju777
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:37 am

Does AA fly anything to MEX or central america from LAX. I thought they flew a few routes or at least announced them at one time.
 
commavia
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:50 am

Quoting Deltasju777 (Reply 14):
Does AA fly anything to MEX or central america from LAX.

AA does not fly from LAX to Mexico City. They do, however, have twice daily MD80 flights to SJD, and they used to have a daily MD80 redeye between LAX and Guadalajara. Also, more recently, they have launched a daily 757 redeye from LAX to San Salvador, El Salvador which seems to be doing quite well, and they also run a redeye from LAX to San Jose, Costa Rica during peak travel periods (Christmas, etc.).
 
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fxramper
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 12:30 pm

Your resident AA Historian isn't MAHwhatever, it's Commavia.  bouncy 

Would like to see more international frequencies outta LAX for AA.  yes 
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:07 pm

Quoting Adipasqu (Reply 12):
That's a lot of flights and connecting traffic to be cut all at once if it doesn't get moved somewhere. Could they use parts of T3 or T5 for AE ops?

AA has no presence in either terminal. They were in T-3 after Reno & TWA, however gave up the facility completely after the T-4 remodel was done.
As far as T-5 its faith is still up in the air. LAWA continues its attempt to atleast partially evict DL for breach of its lease terms. Surprisingly DL has yet to step forward and come to terms regarding its occupancy.

Personally I would not be surprised if AE flying was to disappear. I cant see AA being able to give up 2-3 gates worth of T-4 ramp space for the operation.

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 16):
Would like to see more international frequencies outta LAX for AA

As much as people say they would like to see AA expand at LAX internationally flying such places as China, AA has had a pretty checkered past in LA when it comes to international flights.

The only flight that truly seems to has worked thru the years has been the LHR flight which was purchased from TWA.

AA has been in and out of several markets thru the years. Some got dropped for good such as CDG & GDL, while others such as SAL and SJO it continues to flirt with having come back (SJO seemingly only seasonally). The NRT flight is loosing money according to the carriers employee newsletter with the company hoping the discontinuation of SJC-NRT flying would provide a bump for flight. So in other words the jury is still out on the long term viability of that flight also.

Latest rumors are that AA might try a LAX-GUA flight, however its seems a little late in the game considering high season is a mere 3 months away for such Central America flying.
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tommy767
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
Hartford got a single daily 737 up until 9/11. That put an end to the route. LAX-PHL, however, has not had American Airlines nonstop service since the late 1970s or early 1980s,

Thats strange because I swear they used to have a few flights a day between the two cities. You would obviously know better than me because of your post, which was very detailed.


Also, Toronto is still here on a 738 (one of the few int'l destinations AA serves from LAX.) I've always been anxious to try that one. I'll bet they have contracts with film companies on that route. I don't think UA operates that route either.

Quoting Commavia (Reply 4):
On September 13, 1999, American announced two new LAX routes to further bolster the growing hub -- Orlando, to launch on December 16, 1999, and Houston Hobby, to launch on March 2, 2000, flown with a daily 757 and twice-daily MD-80s, respectively.

I forgot about Houston Hobby! But MCO is still holding on two one sole 757 daily. I remember back in 2003 they served LAX-MCO with a 738.
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:25 pm

Quoting Tommy767 (Reply 18):
. I don't think UA operates that route either

They dont have to, they code share on Air Canada's 6 daily flights.


Also lets not dont forget AA ran LAX-DAL service on F-100s to compete against Legend Airlines. Off course after Legend died in 2000, the American service quietly disappeared also.
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COERJ145
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:26 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 17):
Personally I would not be surprised if AE flying was to disappear.

Really? I though AmEagle was doing quite well with their Intra-California flights. They currently do LAX-SJC/SAN/FAT/MRY/LAS/SBA/SPB. I can see them dropping LAS due to the stiff competition on that route. WN, NW, UA and HP have that route quite staturated.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 1:47 pm

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 20):
Really? I though AmEagle was doing quite well with their Intra-California flights

I dont believe the question is that they dont do well on the flights. While probably not as good as UAX, the bigger question that AA will need to answer soon is at what cost do they wish to maintain the LAX AE operation.

Are they willing to sacrifice several gates in T-4 and the impact and likely reduction which would be needed from mainline flying, or are they willing to go spend money and sublease another terminal (assuming one was available and some one would be willing to enter into a sublease with AA)??

Tough questions, and likely pricey question AA needs to decide on.

At the end of the day, I presume it will come down to how important is it for AA to maintain a presence in the AE LA city pair markets, and also at what cost is AA willing to maintain service to smaller markets such as MRY/SPB which are only linked to the AA network via the LAX AE flying?
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cch362
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:03 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 21):
...the bigger question that AA will need to answer soon is at what cost do they wish to maintain the LAX AE operation.

Could the former UAX remote pad be an option for Eagle? I don't think it is currently being used.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:13 pm

Quoting Cch362 (Reply 22):
Could the former UAX remote pad be an option for Eagle? I don't think it is currently being used.

I believe its safe to say, United in no way would sublease to AA.

Anyways I've heard the UAX terminal facility often known as the "box" was going to get torn down and a, engine run up pad/blast fence was going to be built.

AA really finds itself in a little bind as they are also loosing their low bay, super bay, and ex TWA maintenance facilities so its not like they have other land they are sitting on that one could build an alternate AE facility on.

I suppose if the city is willing to host AE flying at the remote gates, that is certainly possible, however the airport fee structure could hit AA hard as they would also have to pay LAWA seperate parking and passenger fees which would add up very quickly.
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lax44
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 2:36 pm

The new "Western Terminal" (west of the existing TBIT), is to take the place of the existing AE parking and their hi bay/low bay hangars, right?

How many gates will it have? I thought gates were not going to be added in the LAX Master Plan, so how is the airport offsetting these new gate additions; from the closure of the the Eagle parking facility and the Skywest Box? From somewhere else?

I'm fairly certain AA uses their hangar areas for overflow aircraft parking at night, allowing them to operate more flights than they have gate space for. I wonder were those aircraft will park if they lose a significant amount of concrete in their new one hangar deal.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Lax44 (Reply 24):
The new "Western Terminal" (west of the existing TBIT), is to take the place of the existing AE parking and their hi bay/low bay hangars, right?

Correct. The facility is known as the "West Satellite Concourse"

In addition there will now be 4 adjacent North-South taxiways. The current ones behind TBIT will get moved westward slightly as TBIT gets its additional gates, plus another set will be built just West of the new concourse.

Quoting Lax44 (Reply 24):
How many gates will it have?

Not defined yet. LAWA has yet to decide of the concourse will serve as part of TBIT or possibly as a general use, or single carrier facility. Allegedly one major airline/alliance (UA?) has expressed interest in the sole use of the new facility.

Quoting Lax44 (Reply 24):
I thought gates were not going to be added in the LAX Master Plan, so how is the airport offsetting these new gate additions

Once the TBIT remodel and West Satellite is complete, much of the remote gates will be demolished.

Quoting Lax44 (Reply 24):
I'm fairly certain AA uses their hangar areas for overflow aircraft parking at night, allowing them to operate more flights than they have gate space for. I wonder were those aircraft will park if they lose a significant amount of concrete in their new one hangar deal

Yes they do park lots of overnight aircraft at the hangar. Good question.
I understand AA retains the option to construct a single smaller hangar facility as part of the Masterplan. Will they ??
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flyboy7974
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 4:12 pm

I'm looking through all of my past AA timetables and can't find it, but does anybody remember bout 10 years ago or so, at least, when AA announced nonstop MSP-LAX and it only last maybe a couple of months.
 
N1120A
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 5:00 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
Other AA flights which have disappeared in SoCal include the closure of LGB completely with the dropping of LGB-JFK and LGB-DFW service

But of course that, along with the abandoning of DFW-LIM, was so obviously do to the loosening of restrictions at DAL  sarcastic 
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FoxBravo
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:11 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 19):
Also lets not dont forget AA ran LAX-DAL service on F-100s to compete against Legend Airlines. Off course after Legend died in 2000, the American service quietly disappeared also.

This flight (along with DAL-LGA) was still operating at least through August of 2001, when I flew it--quite some time after Legend disappeared. What a great flight that was. Super comfortable seats, top-notch food and the convenience of DAL.
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CHIFLYGUY
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Sun Sep 03, 2006 11:21 pm

Presumably AA made their own bed with regards to T4. It's a nice terminal, but maxed out. So AA has nowhere to grow in LAX.

But with some of the other facilities they are losing such as the AE remote terminal, how did that come about? Was this something AA agreed to or did the airport authority basically force them out? I knew they were losing some facilities, but never heard the story behind it.
 
C133
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:24 am

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 25):
Yes they do park lots of overnight aircraft at the hangar. Good question.
I understand AA retains the option to construct a single smaller hangar facility as part of the Masterplan. Will they ??

They also do a lot of maintenance in those hangars--can they just be evicted?
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 29):
AE remote terminal, how did that come about? Was this something AA agreed to or did the airport authority basically force them out? I



Quoting C133 (Reply 30):
They also do a lot of maintenance in those hangars--can they just be evicted?

The AA hangar facilities (which includes the ramp AE terminal is located) on are leased from the city. The decade long lease holds have all expired one by one in the last few years.

Knowing the facilities would be needed for master work plan the city elected not to renew them on a long term basis, and instead AA remains more on a short term basis. (year to year I believe)
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tommy767
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting CHIFLYGUY (Reply 29):
Presumably AA made their own bed with regards to T4. It's a nice terminal, but maxed out. So AA has nowhere to grow in LAX.

You really think so? I'm not doubting you. Gate space is crowded, but I've been there a bunch of times where there have been a few open gates.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
tundra767
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:44 am

This is the second time around for AA to SAL. I flew AA in the 90's to Guatemala City and also to San Salvador then remember it being discontinued. Is AA still running its LAX-SJU weekend flights. Last I saw they were on the 763. I truly miss the good ole days of the 3-class transcons to BOS and IAD. This post does remind me of the inaugural flight I took from IAD-LAX on 77 using the 738. I was on that flight and remember thinking this is the end of the premium transcons.

[Edited 2006-09-03 22:45:23]

[Edited 2006-09-03 22:46:32]

[Edited 2006-09-03 22:47:48]
 
BALAX
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:31 am

Here's a question for the experts in finances. How long does it usually take an airline to turn a profit on an International route? I was under the impression that it'd normally take at least a couple of years, regardless of the yields.
 
MAH4546
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:33 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 34):
Here's a question for the experts in finances. How long does it usually take an airline to turn a profit on an International route? I was under the impression that it'd normally take at least a couple of years, regardless of the yields.

New stations, one year. New routes to existing stations, 4-6 months. That is, assuming that the routes are successful. If it were a couple years airlines would never expand.
a.
 
BALAX
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:39 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 35):
New stations, one year. New routes to existing stations, 4-6 months. That is, assuming that the routes are successful. If it were a couple years airlines would never expand

Thanks MAH. How bad is the bleeding on AA169?
 
MAH4546
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:03 am

Quoting BALAX (Reply 36):

Thanks MAH. How bad is the bleeding on AA169?

I have no idea, but the flight was profitable in 2004. I doubt it is that bad.
a.
 
kl662
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:08 am

Wow. Had no idea that American Eagle's ops at LAX were threatened/uncertain. The flights from SAN are quite convenient, especially given the code shares with CO, AS, NW, etc. Being able to route through LAX has saved me more than once when my SAN flight was delayed or cancelled. (Though, it typically takes some patience to convince CO's customer service that such a routing is possible. They're not all that familiar with the code shares.)

Also, I love that bus ride to and from the Eagle terminal. Driving among all those wide bodies from pretty much everywhere in the world is something every aviation enthusiast should get to experience.

Finally, I was really sad to see LAX-HOU disappear. That was a nice flight for keeping friends and family in Houston from having to drive all the way out to IAH for an airport pickup.
 
commavia
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:00 pm

Quoting BALAX (Reply 36):
How bad is the bleeding on AA169?

I don't think that AA's LAX-NRT route is "bleeding" at all. The route is apparently doing surprisingly well, much like with AA's JFK-NRT route (which has outlasted NW and UA, both of which have served it for over 20 years). I think AA does just fine in the LAX-NRT market because they have a huge and loyal FF base on the U.S. side and a codeshare with JAL on the Japan side to help, plus some feed from incoming AA/Eagle flights at LAX.
 
scaledesigns
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Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 2:12 am

RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:46 pm

I think the LAX-NRT will be just fine..SJC closing the route will also help.
Its funny how AA bought the Air Cal routes twice..Nice inside deal for the
big C and family.Reno Air was in Sabre before the merger.
F1 Tommy
 
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centrair
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:18 pm

Too bad AA doesn't build up LAX more for launching more Asian flights. They could fly to any City in Japan from LAX and do better than some of their other ideas...ORD-NGO...DFW-KIX.

With JL entering OneWorld, AA has a great chance to really get a hold in Japan. NH is with UA and NW is on its own (old codeshare with JL but limited). JL is the largest carrier in Japan with more flights to more places.

If AA can get its butt in gear and choose where they want to focus Asian expansion it will be to AA's and OneWorld's benefit. LAX would give them good O&D and they they could better filter JL, CX, BA and QF traffic to all parts of the US. But more likely they will want to build up DFW and ask their OneWorld partners to fly there.
My name is Centrair but HND is closer. Let's Japanese Aviation!
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:42 pm

Quoting Commavia (Reply 39):
I don't think that AA's LAX-NRT route is "bleeding" at all. The route is apparently doing surprisingly well

Not according to an internal AA newsletter. It specificaly stated that Both LAX-NRT and SJC-NRT were loosing money, and the carrier chose to drop the SJC flight with hopes the LA flight would receive a bump.

So in other words, I'd say the jury is still very much out on the long term viability of the LAX-NRT service.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MAH4546
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 1:45 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 42):

Not according to an internal AA newsletter. It specificaly stated that Both LAX-NRT and SJC-NRT were loosing money, and the carrier chose to drop the SJC flight with hopes the LA flight would receive a bump.

In 2004, it did make money. The launch was quite successful. It is unfortunate that it hasn't made money lately, but with increased fuel costs, it is very possible that the profit the flight made was marginal and that the fuel costs were enough to bite into it. The route doesn't struggle to bring in passengers.
a.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:06 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 43):
The route doesn't struggle to bring in passengers.

I agree, the loads are not bad at all from the traffic reports I see monthly.

One has to wonder of course what yields might look like and if AA manages to pull its fair share of premium traffic in the crowded market. In addition also what is AA Cargo's contribution to the flight from both ends?

Certainly having fuel so high can be a serious impediment to a route that possibly was touch and go otherwise.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aaway
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:30 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 11):
it will be interesting to see what direction the company takes in the coming few years as it looses the AE terminal and all its maintenance facilities as the LAX Masterplan starts taking hold.

Fortunately, AA has a couple of years before a course of action has to be taken. From the information I have, the leases (AA has seperate lease agreements for it's original facilities and the ex-TW hangar facilities) on the maintenance facilities run through 2010. This seems to jibe with the anecdotal info I have regarding the TBIT "flip" (or westside gates project) commencing in 2010.

I don't have any info regarding a lease on the AE remote. Frankly, I'm wondering if it actually isn't included on the maintenance facility lease since that lease covers both the 'Superbay' and 'lowbay' hangars and associated facilities.

[Edited 2006-09-04 07:40:25]
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:39 pm

TBIT backside taxiway reconfiguration begins in 2007 after the South Side runway relocation. LAWA will be going out to bid this winter for the work.

The AE box as such will be shut shortly after wards. I believe the super bay is safe until at least 2009 or whenever there is some movement on the Satellite Concourse.

I have a very detailed document (if I can only find it!) regarding approved project times lines for each of the "green lighted" projects. It also includes info (sq ft, ramp size etc) on the single hangar which AA will have rights to construct if it wishes once the super bay gets torn down.
We wont see the satellite concourse for maybe another 5 years, however the AE terminal, low bay hangar and other facilities on the backside of TBIT will disappear in the not too distant future as the new taxiways get built.

[Edited 2006-09-04 07:45:01]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
aaway
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:54 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 46):
TBIT backside taxiway reconfiguration begins in 2007 after the South Side runway relocation. LAWA will be going out to bid this winter for the work.

Is your info from the Masterplan website, or another source? From the info I have, the only major taxiway projects slated for '07 are (of course) the Southside center taxiway and the reconstuction of alleyway C-10 (deferred from this year due to the inability to provide concrete for both C-10 and the SAIP, AND complete 25L-7R by March '07).
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
aaway
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RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:58 pm

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 46):
We wont see the satellite concourse for maybe another 5 years, however the AE terminal, low bay hangar and other facilities on the backside of TBIT will disappear in the not too distant future as the new taxiways get built

Just to add...all facilities between taxiways S and AA are on short-term leases.
"The greatest mistake you can make in life is to continually be afraid you will make one." - Elbert Hubbard
 
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LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Discontinued AA LAX Routes

Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:03 pm

Quoting Aaway (Reply 47):
Is your info from the Masterplan website, or another source?

LAWA documentation packet regarding each of the "green lighted" projects including specific timelines, relocation info (eg - AA) etc.

Only a smitten of the massive amount of material LAWA has on the subject is placed on the Masterplan website. Matter of fact much if what is posted includes many grand plan concepts that are likely never get built, and only serve to confuse the public in my opinion.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California

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