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Lufthansa
Posts: 2638
Joined: Thu May 20, 1999 6:04 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:01 am

Hey SLC folks... I take an interest in this cause i used to go ski up Deer Valley (and for all those doubters it is the greatest snow on earth! biggest and driest snow flakes i've ever seen)

Anyway, This is what I wanna know. Why not simply have the SLC departing aircraft depart at say, 7pm local time, or after dark to avoid the temperature issue? If the temperature cooled down a bit, wouldn't that in most instances solve the runway problem? SAS has a flight that leaves ORD(for CPH) at about 10pm and although it arrives in europe later than most flights, it still seems to work. CDG is gonna have a hell of a lot more connecting possibilities than CPH,(besides higher europe frequencies think of all those places like Tel Aviv and Cairo, where CPH really just works well for Northern Europe, Germany and Russia) and although not it's deal its still not that bad. And as soon as worst of the summer is over that flight could be switched to earlier departure times?

I've never spent summer in the rockies...only winter so i've only left SLC when its been snowing... anybody care to comment?
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18181
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:33 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 20):
Sad, but true. Cost SLC their AeroMexico flights to MEX and HMO. IIRC, both (non-daily) flights arrived late in the evening for a RON, so that they'd have an ideal arrival time in Mexico. AM tried to operate daytime flights on both routes, and both failed, because as such they were less than ideal timed for departures and arrivals in Mexico.

...and I don't think there were any daytime arrivals at the time that needed customs/FIS.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
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jfklganyc
Posts: 5957
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:52 am

"JFK has already replaced CVG as their secondary European gateway."

Actually for Delta, JFK has always been ahead of CVG as a European gateway. And through most of the 90s, it was also ahead of ATL in terms of European destinations.

CVG isn't and wasn't even close.

PJ
 
ordryan28
Posts: 963
Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 2:24 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 12:02 pm

from a spotter's perspective of course, how 'bout an AF A380 one day?

lol...totally kidding, would never happen but it would be quite cool
Whoever said winning is not everything never fought cancer.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 3:13 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 38):
CVG could take a hit but remember DL is flying it w/ a 777 which can't continue to be used for the route given DL's plan to use that plane for Asia. CVGCDG could get a 764 but it would be easier to just downgrade to a 763 like the rest of the CVG int'l flights and support the new SLC-CDG route.

in summer, CVG-CDG route is operated by a DL B772 and AF A343. In winter, service is reduced to one DL B763ER
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:27 pm

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 36):
Why is it taking until now, 18 years after Delta bought Western airlines. This should have happen ten years ago.

Different managements, different philosophies, different times.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 51):
...and I don't think there were any daytime arrivals at the time that needed customs/FIS.

Nothing except a few odd charter flights here in there. Of course, working a total of around 5 regular weekly flights at 11pm can be considered hard work  Yeah sure . Given the past, I just wonder how FIS at SLC will be able to cope with all the Mexico flights on Skywest and mainline  Silly .

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 54):
in summer, CVG-CDG route is operated by a DL B772 and AF A343. In winter, service is reduced to one DL B763ER

The flight will remain a 772 this winter.
 
panamair
Posts: 4330
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2001 2:24 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:37 pm

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 55):
The flight will remain a 772 this winter.

Are you sure? All schedules and CRS show DL 44 CVG-CDG to be a 763ER this winter, even during the peak holiday season...
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Panamair (Reply 56):
Are you sure? All schedules and CRS show DL 44 CVG-CDG to be a 763ER this winter, even during the peak holiday season...

Last time I looked delta.com showed the flight as a 777 for the rest of the year, though admittedly, last time I looked was in August, and with DL's tendency to change schedules on a monthly basis, that might have changed.
 
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SLCUT2777
Posts: 3476
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:17 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 10:35 pm

Quoting IADLHR (Reply 45):
Another thing, of which i am absolutely clueless is how much traffic the Mormon Church would generate. I know they do missionary work all over the world so that is a factor too. In addition, this would seem to be purely O&D traffic to add to the strong feed @ SLC DL would get.

While the LDS Church is a fairly significant corporate customer for DL, I doubt they could justify filling such a flight. The missionary presence in Europe has been reduced significantly over the last decade as more are deployed to more fruitful areas such as Latin America. However I'm told the LDS Church has been a big mover in the salt Lake City business community to get this type of flight into SLC, much as they were to get the Winter Olympics here. Quite interestingly one of the members of the Council of the Twelve hierarchy that governs the church is an old LH 744 captain and corporate officer in charge of training; Deiter F. Uctdorf (retired from LH in 1996).
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Dieter F. Uctdorf (of LH 1965-1996)
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:12 pm

Remember that one of the benefits of CDG is that it is one of the few European hubs with a considerable degree of expansion capability. The terminal issues delayed growth some but CDG has good runway capabilities. AF benefits by having more and more US points in its US network.

CO had stronger ties to KLM because of its linkup with NW but now that CO, DL, and NW are all Skyteam members with AF and KL, both European hubs are being linked with all 3 US Skyteam airlines.

There is a similar thread about CLECDG service on CO and both theirs and DL’s from SLC will probably work.

CVGCDG has consistently been one of the DL’s strongest transatlantic routes. The type of aircraft is not as important as that the route will continue to be flown for a good long time. The 777s will be moving off the western European routes for DL so the question is only which 767 will be used. Given AF’s seasonal presence in the market in addition to DL’s summer 777, there is considerable ability to shift connections off of CVG in order to help develop a new market. Given that AF will likely code on both the new SLCCDG and CLECDG routes, they can shift traffic too – although AF does not have antitrust immunity with CO and thus cannot talk about any new CO routes before they become public.
 
goldorak
Posts: 1460
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 5:29 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:51 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 57):
Last time I looked delta.com showed the flight as a 777 for the rest of the year, though admittedly, last time I looked was in August, and with DL's tendency to change schedules on a monthly basis, that might have changed

change for a 763ER is confirmed (checked yesterday)

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 59):
CVGCDG has consistently been one of the DL’s strongest transatlantic routes.

Agreed but CDG-ATL is even stronger. I've always been amazed how rapidly AF/DL jumped from 1 to 4 daily flights on this route, and they are always full.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4760
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:48 am

I can't wait for a SLC-Europe flight to start!  Smile

Either AF or Delta will take the risk and it will be successful. The mormon church alone will fill seats with all paying customers going on missionary/church related trips to europe, africa, asia thru CDG.

I will buy a seat in first, on the first flight anyone else with me?
 
YULWinterSkies
Posts: 1267
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:42 pm

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Wed Sep 13, 2006 9:42 am

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 50):
I've never spent summer in the rockies...only winter so i've only left SLC when its been snowing... anybody care to comment?

Utah summer = sunny, hot, dry, + occasional gigantic thunderstorms. Same in Wyoming, even Montana.
Passed by SLC 3 times in June : 38°C, humidity close to 100%, followed by quite scary salt/dust storms West on I-80 (trucks flipped over etc...). 2 other days were ~ 25°C, sunny and lovely days...
Much hotter than most of the smaller cities in nearby states due to lower elevation, and being located in a deep basin near high mountain ranges.


Now, to stick to the thread is that enough to prevent a 340 to take off to CDG? I'm tempted to say no, but I might be wrong. AF has better 340 experts than I am, and I'm sure they have figured that out!
When I doubt... go running!
 
OOer
Posts: 995
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 2:10 pm

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting Lufthansa (Reply 50):
Why not simply have the SLC departing aircraft depart at say, 7pm local time, or after dark to avoid the temperature issue?

Well.....in the summer, the difference between the hottest time (3-5PM) and 7 PM is usually 2-3 degrees. ALmost nothing. Now if you leave SLC at 8PM or so...do you know what time you arrive in Paris? Around 3-4PM the next day!!!!! While most other US-Europe flight arrive in the morning!!!!!


Here is the solution people!!!!!!


Send an A330-200....

Agree?
 
WesternA318
Posts: 4603
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 11:55 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:16 pm

Quoting OOer (Reply 63):
Well.....in the summer, the difference between the hottest time (3-5PM) and 7 PM is usually 2-3 degrees. ALmost nothing. Now if you leave SLC at 8PM or so...do you know what time you arrive in Paris? Around 3-4PM the next day!!!!! While most other US-Europe flight arrive in the morning!!!!!


Here is the solution people!!!!!!


Send an A330-200....

Agree?

Didnt I state this in Post 5?? LOL, IMHO, The A330-200 has the best capability for this route year long. If traffic permits, then perhaps an A340 or 772ER could do it, but for those hot summer days, such as weve had this year, the 332 would do wonders.
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: More SLC-CDG Rumors

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:25 am

Quoting Goldorak (Reply 60):
Agreed but CDG-ATL is even stronger. I've always been amazed how rapidly AF/DL jumped from 1 to 4 daily flights on this route, and they are always full.

Based on DOT data, CVGCDG has consistently been a stronger revenue generator than ATLCDG. ATL obviously has huge connecting capabilities and a very large local market but when reduced to revenue per seat, CVG beats ATL.

LDS missionary activity will help fill some seats but the flight not succeed unless there are a lot of premium business and premium coach (by fare level) passengers. DL obviously believes they can generate them if they start the route. Religious travel, by any group, is generally of below average yields for the market. That’s not a slam against anyone – it’s just the facts.

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