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hiflyer
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Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:40 pm

Wonder if it was around the storms near the Mississippi? A320 with 138 ob so it was full!

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/09/12/flight.disrupted.ap/index.html
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL890


CHANTILLY, Virginia (AP) -- A passenger tried to open the exit door of a jet during a cross-country flight on Tuesday night, airline and federal officials said.

United Airlines Flight 890 from Los Angeles landed as scheduled at Washington Dulles International Airport at 8:35 p.m., said Amy Kudwa, Transportation Security Administration spokeswoman. No one was injured.

The passenger became unruly about 31/2 hours into the flight from Los Angeles and was subdued by other passengers and federal air marshals, said United spokeswoman Megan McCarthy.

"After the passenger was restrained, the pilot decided to land at Dulles," McCarthy said. "It wasn't an emergency landing."

Airport police and FBI agents met the flight and were interviewing the passenger, said FBI spokeswoman Debbie Wierman.

There were 138 passengers and six crew members on board, McCarthy said.

Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
 
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jetjack74
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 2:52 pm

Gee, how many times has this been attempted? Well, since their plug-type doors, the door control handles will sever before the will open. Idiot
Made from jets!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:16 pm

Quoting Hiflyer (Thread starter):
"After the passenger was restrained, the pilot decided to land at Dulles," McCarthy said. "It wasn't an emergency landing."

Finally! A pilot that doesn't divert and declare an emergency when a single moron does something stupid. Bravo to this pilot. I wish more would take the lead and continue on to the destination unless a continued threat is suspected. One annoying unarmed man or one elderly woman with a loud voice isn't an emergency.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
HAL
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:00 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
One annoying unarmed man or one elderly woman with a loud voice isn't an emergency.

No, they may not be an emergency at the time, but as a pilot I have to consider what may happen. Is this person having to be restrained continuously? Are passengers/crew out of their seats sitting on top of this person? Do I really want to continue on for another several hours with a possibly unstable person onboard in this situation? In this case I don't know what was said, but the Captain must have been consulting with the company, and with the flight attendants and air marshals in the back, and between all of them came to a decision on where to go. Since this one was already 3 1/2 hours into the flight, it's possible that by the time the situation was settled, IAD was already the closest option. Second gussing the crew's decision making process without full knowledge of what went on is always an exercise in futility.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:30 pm

Well HAL, there are no places for you to divert 3 hours into a Hawaii flight anyway, so either way, your decision is made for you...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 5:48 pm

Weirdo.
This is very much Frequent these days.Pity they don't know that the Pressure loads wont open the door in Air.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
LHMark
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 13, 2006 7:38 pm

What pisses me off is that the stories published about events like this never mention that it's nigh impossible to open the door in midair, so the flying public has very little to worry about. Fearmongering by omission. Sickening.
"Sympathy is something that shouldn't be bestowed on the Yankees. Apparently it angers them." - Bob Feller
 
FlyBoy84
Posts: 331
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:37 am

What a DUMDUM!

These FOOLS just seem to take leave of their senses! I mean, ya' see what happened to the guy at MIA who ran up and down the aisle shouting about having a gun or a bomb - HE'S DEAD! Obviously, shooting a gun inside a pressurized tube at 35,000' isn't possible. But my point is: How far does some IDIOT think he's gonna' get pulling a STUPID stunt like making a threat or trying to open a door inflight  Confused

You would think that the  butthead s who do this CRAP would understand that the doors WON'T open for one very good reason: EVERYBODY'S SAFETY!

As far as I'M concerned, the flight crew can get on the PA and make the following announcement prior to pushback:

"Look...get on the plane...take your stuff and STOW IT...SIT DOWN...SHUT UP...buckle your seatbelts and keep them buckled...leave the tray tables and seatbacks ALONE until we TELL you it's okay...and if you can't follow the rules, get the #E!! off the plane NOW before the air marshal takes you DOWN...OTHERWISE YOU'RE GOING TO FEDERAL PRISON OR THE LOONY BIN  box  "

I'd feel a lot better if they'd put it in blunt terms!
 
fspilot747
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 8:36 am

My buddy was on that flight. Apparently took a lot of people + a marshall to hold the guy down.

In any case, you can't open the door in flight--physically impossible.
 
ATCGOD
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:58 am

Quoting FlyBoy84 (Reply 7):
Obviously, shooting a gun inside a pressurized tube at 35,000' isn't possible.

Sure you can...and supposedly safely too. The bullets that air marshals fly with are supposed to disintegrate when they strike a solid surface.
 
wdleiser
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:18 pm

I don't think its a big deal, the door cannot open, all he needs is a little ass kicking to calm him down.
 
VS239
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 2:26 pm

Will the door open when the cabin is pressurized?.......Sounds like another job for Mythbusters......  stirthepot 

VS
Who...me??
 
HAL
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:54 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
Well HAL, there are no places for you to divert 3 hours into a Hawaii flight anyway, so either way, your decision is made for you

You got that right!

Ahh, the joys of ETOPS flights. Big grin

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
bmacleod
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:25 pm

Quoting Wdleiser (Reply 10):
I don't think its a big deal, the door cannot open,

Unless you can secretly smuggle explosives onboard and attach them to the door of a 747 like the terrorists in "Drop Zone". Didn't then-actor Schwarzenegger do it in 1996 "Eraser?"
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
MCOflyer
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 14, 2006 9:30 pm

I agree that the captain made the right decision. If they were 3.5hrs into the flight, you have to consider that duty time maybe affected. Anyways he wasn't a major threat. Kudos to the UA Captain.

MCOflyer

 bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup   bigthumbsup 
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
LVICS
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 4:59 am

Please, excuse my lack of knowledge. Why isn't it possible to open the door during the flight?
 
philhyde
Posts: 574
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting LVICS (Reply 15):
Why isn't it possible to open the door during the flight?

Because the door opens inward, which would be against the internal pressure. Impossible, well not mechanically, but rather with the strength of a human.

I'd like to see this on mythbusters!
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
FlyBoy84
Posts: 331
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting ATCGOD (Reply 9):
Sure you can...and supposedly safely too. The bullets that air marshals fly with are supposed to disintegrate when they strike a solid surface.

Then if the air marshal can get a clear shot...TAKE 'EM DOWN  gnasher 
 
rammstein
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 5:19 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Thread starter):
Airport police and FBI agents met the flight and were interviewing the passenger, said FBI spokeswoman Debbie Wierman.

The question is: why the passenger wanted to open the door? He wanted to go outside to smoke a sigarette?  Yeah sure
He who wishes to be rich in a day will be hanged in a day. --Leonardo Da Vinci
 
LVICS
Posts: 67
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 6:29 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 16):
Because the door opens inward, which would be against the internal pressure. Impossible, well not mechanically, but rather with the strength of a human.

Thanks for answering.  bigthumbsup 
Now, I'll probably get into trouble (I mean, I'm afraid I'm making a fool of myself): never seen an aircraft door open inward, so I guess they go inward at first and after that they go outward. Is that correct?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:17 am

While the door will not open and the cabin will not decompress in flight, it is possible that the person could do some damage. Yes the handle could brake, but if the unruly passenger starts kicking, they could at least damage the evacuation slide or do other damage that would not be good and could be dangerous.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
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antoniemey
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting LVICS (Reply 19):
Now, I'll probably get into trouble (I mean, I'm afraid I'm making a fool of myself): never seen an aircraft door open inward, so I guess they go inward at first and after that they go outward. Is that correct?

On most aircraft doors when the handle is pulled the door at first drops inward, then either swings outward or slides up into the fuselage. I've opened enough (despite officially not being allowed) to know. (Yes, always on the ground, parked at the gate).
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
LVICS
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:51 pm

Thank you too, Antoniemey Big grin .
 
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fxramper
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:55 pm

The flight was lucky to have Air Marshalls on board.  yes 
 
Tod
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Fri Sep 15, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 16):
I'd like to see this on mythbusters!

It would be pretty boring.

A plug type door isn't going anywhere while at altitude.

Tod
 
traineepilot
Posts: 65
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:01 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:10 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Finally! A pilot that doesn't divert and declare an emergency when a single moron does something stupid. Bravo to this pilot. I wish more would take the lead and continue on to the destination unless a continued threat is suspected. One annoying unarmed man or one elderly woman with a loud voice isn't an emergency.

Don't forget that the Captain or PIC is ultimately responsible for the flight. He didnt divert, so yes, in a way good, no disruption, but if after being restrained, he did something else that really did disrupt the flight and cause injury, then people will go why didnt he divert after the first incident, so its a tricky decision to make either way, but I see where your coming from.
 
philhyde
Posts: 574
Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2003 2:16 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 1:22 am

Quoting Tod (Reply 24):
It would be pretty boring.

I disagree. Those guys would go to great lengths to show how much force would be required. Like the show where they welded an electric car motor to a washing machine.
Canon junkie - Aviation Nut
 
YYZYYT
Posts: 1087
Joined: Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:41 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 2:51 am

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 21):
Quoting LVICS (Reply 19):
Now, I'll probably get into trouble (I mean, I'm afraid I'm making a fool of myself): never seen an aircraft door open inward, so I guess they go inward at first and after that they go outward. Is that correct?

On most aircraft doors when the handle is pulled the door at first drops inward, then either swings outward or slides up into the fuselage. I've opened enough (despite officially not being allowed) to know. (Yes, always on the ground, parked at the gate).

I've always understood that too.
But, here is a question. Do you all remember the accident in MIA when an AA FA was killed, while opening a door on an A300 while the cabin was still pressurized? Described in the link below:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_32_16/ai_90503141

Is the A300 door made differently? How could that have happened?
 
SeeTheWorld
Posts: 1090
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Finally! A pilot that doesn't divert and declare an emergency when a single moron does something stupid. Bravo to this pilot. I wish more would take the lead and continue on to the destination unless a continued threat is suspected. One annoying unarmed man or one elderly woman with a loud voice isn't an emergency.

Here! Here!

Quoting LHMARK (Reply 6):
What pisses me off is that the stories published about events like this never mention that it's nigh impossible to open the door in midair, so the flying public has very little to worry about. Fearmongering by omission. Sickening.

I agree. I took Fox and CNN to task for this in an email.

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
I agree that the captain made the right decision. If they were 3.5hrs into the flight, you have to consider that duty time maybe affected. Anyways he wasn't a major threat. Kudos to the UA Captain.

I was on a UA SYD-SFO flight post-9/11 and we had a guy go nuts over Fiji. We very easily could have set down in HNL, but they tied the guy to his seat, and we flew onto SFO; and I, for one, was happy about that. When we landed, there were no fewer than 10 marshalls in the jetway waiting to take him away.

Quoting Fxramper (Reply 23):
The flight was lucky to have Air Marshalls on board.

Actually, I think the guy was lucky there were air marshalls otherwise the passengers may have killed him.
 
gyojoo
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RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 3:36 am

Hmm a quick question. would a person be able to kick a window out in flight?
 
SeeTheWorld
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Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2005 2:46 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Gyojoo (Reply 29):
Hmm a quick question. would a person be able to kick a window out in flight?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but even if a person had as many chances as they need (i.e. passengers not tackling them), I don't think they'd be able to kick out the outside panel (the interior one possibly).
 
Tod
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Sat Sep 16, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting Philhyde (Reply 26):
Those guys would go to great lengths to show how much force would be required

But that can be done with a calculator.

Squares inches of door x PSI of differental = force holding door closed
(it has been calculated in other threads)

Tod
 
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HAWK21M
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Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:18 pm

Quoting Gyojoo (Reply 29):
Hmm a quick question. would a person be able to kick a window out in flight

There are three panes.The Middle & outer ones take the load.To strike the Panes with ones foot accurately to shatter the Windows is not easy & Im sure most of the Pax will not tolerate.
regs
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
Markhkg
Posts: 838
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2005 4:13 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting YYZYYT (Reply 27):
Is the A300 door made differently? How could that have happened?

My understanding is that unlike other aircraft, there is no pressure relief system on certain Airbus doors. Unfortunately, in this case, the crew member did not recognize that the aircraft was still pressurized (it was, after all, an emergency evacuation and things were getting pretty hurried). Airbus claims that the situation has been remedied aboard newer Airbus aircraft, as it has installed a red warning "Cabin Pressurized" light near the viewing port of the window. Cabin crew are taught never to attempt opening the exit if this light is illuminated.

Accident Report:
http://www.ntsb.gov/recs/letters/2002/A02_20_23.pdf
Release your seat-belts and get out! Leave everything!
 
Tod
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:29 pm

Quoting MarkHKG (Reply 33):
Unfortunately, in this case, the crew member did not recognize that the aircraft was still pressurized

It doesn't take much of a pressure differential to make a huge difference. I've seen an engineer nearly blown out of an aircraft when he opened a cargo door during hanger testing with less than a 1 psi differential.

Tod
 
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HAWK21M
Posts: 30089
Joined: Fri Jan 05, 2001 10:05 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:38 pm

Quoting Tod (Reply 34):
I've seen an engineer nearly blown out of an aircraft when he opened a cargo door during hanger testing with less than a 1 psi differential

Which Type.Was it a Freighter.
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:39 pm

They should take bastard out in the backyard and shot him for being so stupid. Jeopardizing other people like that is simply too stupid. I hope he/she gets a long prison sentence... Lock him away for a long time.
Life's for Living!
 
BladeLWS
Posts: 358
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:41 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:43 pm

Quoting RoseFlyer (Reply 20):
While the door will not open and the cabin will not decompress in flight, it is possible that the person could do some damage. Yes the handle could brake, but if the unruly passenger starts kicking, they could at least damage the evacuation slide or do other damage that would not be good and could be dangerous.

Yep, but I think in this day and age any fool that so much as touched the door would be bum rushed by half the passengers in like five seconds.
 
Tod
Posts: 1716
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:51 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:57 pm

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 35):
Which Type.Was it a Freighter.

A300 in the process of being converted to a freighter by Flight Structures.

Tod
 
HKA
Posts: 143
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 7:44 am

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Thread starter):
What pisses me off is that the stories published about events like this never mention that it's nigh impossible to open the door in midair, so the flying public has very little to worry about. Fearmongering by omission. Sickening.

99% of the passengers probably don't know this !!
so the public does get scared when someone tries to open the door in mid air.
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Pax Tries To Open Door

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:43 am

Quoting HKA (Reply 39):
so the public does get scared when someone tries to open the door in mid air.

Which is why the perpetrator should be punished hard. Period.
Life's for Living!

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