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cpos
Topic Author
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:22 am

Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:02 am

Had a flight this morning where the gate agent didn't check passengers very well as they boarded. She let person after person get on the plane with Dunkin Donuts and Starbucks cups in their hands. As they entered the plane, the F/A's would take those beverages away. I'd say they threw away about 10-15 cups/bottles. When the gate agent brought the final PAX list to the door, the captain got out of his seat and sternly told the gate agent that they need to do a better job watching the passengers as they get on the plane.

It was interesting to see the checks and balances in place and working properly.

Thought I would share.

[Edited 2006-09-19 18:03:47]
 
djw030468
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:39 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:15 am

Quoting Cpos (Thread starter):

Being the onerey person I am...I will test the system tonight. I wonder if my Advil Gel caps and hair spray gel will make it? Probably! Stay tuned!
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4172
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:23 am

Quoting Djw030468 (Reply 1):
Being the onerey person I am...I will test the system tonight. I wonder if my Advil Gel caps and hair spray gel will make it? Probably! Stay tuned!

Maybe that stuff will make it but you won't!  Smile
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
djw030468
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2005 7:39 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:27 am

Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 2):

We'll see tomorrow.
 
D950
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:29 am

I have been through LGA three times in the last four weeks, and they have yet to pick up a small tube of face lotion, or my small spray deodorant. I found out each time on the return as LAX, SFO, and MSP all picked them up on the return.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
mjlhou
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:42 am

Unfortunately, the problem is not what is seen, it's the bottled water and other things people purchase after passing the security checkpoint and then try to hide in their bags. TSA can't spot check every flight. I had to take away at least 6 bottles of water during flights just yesterday alone. Then I need to try and explain that I'm only trying to be consistant and give a reminder that these rules are posted everywhere in the terminal.
Don't worry about things you can't change or control
 
Ralgha
Posts: 1589
Joined: Tue Nov 09, 1999 6:20 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:56 am

Dumbest

Rule

Ever

It won't give a liquid bomber a moments pause. The risk would be the unstable nature of liquid explosives, not the "security" measures. Even if they got the dreaded "SSSS" on their ticket they could easily get the liquid through the checkpoint.

All it does it irritate honest people and provide dishonest people a source of entertainment.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
 
hangarrat
Posts: 428
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 12:24 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:31 am

Flying on DL from JFK-GRU last month I was amazed to see a woman a row or two ahead of me pull a 20 oz bottle of water from her carry on. However, there were no checks before boarding.

On the return trip, in the disorganized state that results from a week of traveling, I forgot about a bottle of sunscreen in my backpack. They found it during a check on the jet bridge.

Last week, flying r/t PHL-PIT, I made a point of buying mini toothpaste and shaving cream and leaving them at the hotel. On the return, I still got the full work over because, apparently, I was carrying too many electronic devices. My laptop, camera, digital voice recorder and cellphone charger all got pulled out of my bag and swabbed for tell-tale ions.

My question here is whether these kinds of sporadic checks will deter attempts.
Spell check is a false dog
 
cle757
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:32 am

I think eventually this rule will be dropped, they really have no way of detecting liquids anyway. They just use the honor system.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
Tbird
Posts: 801
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2001 3:09 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:01 am

I've been traveling alot since the ban and have seen a number of people get liquids past the check point. I haven't tested it and have no desire to test it. Why bother risk getting caught and have to throw that stuff away? Plus as it stands now it is a rule issued by the gov't, yes its a stupid rule but we need to follow it.
 
FlyUSCG
Posts: 520
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:29 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:05 am

I just flew with my friend from PHX-SNA, SNA-LAS, LAS-PHX. We both threw our shaving cream away in the security line in PHX because we didn't want to deal with it. Then we get to SNA and my friend realizes he left his toothpaste in his bag, and of course it wasn't detected. So he did the same in SNA on our way out and again it wasn't detected. Then from LAS-PHX I took 4 bottles of shampoo and lotion etc... from the MGM and put them in my bag, once again not detected. So once again the TSA at it's best. This rule needs to be gotten rid of as it does not deter, nor actually STOP anything. Not to mention plastic,liquid etc. explosives have been around for 10 years.
Go Trojans! Fight On!
 
n234nw
Posts: 69
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 5:06 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 8:50 am

I carried a bottle of coke and a bottle of hand sanitizer past security and onboard on my SEA-AMS-JNB trip last week just to see if I could. The ban (or the TSA enforcement of it, rather) seems to be totally voluntary (Since I got past with out so much as a second glance from the screener) Does this mean that the TSA did not screen me properly?

My problem with the "ban" on liquids is that compliance is left up to the passengers, with no practical means of enforcement by the TSA

On a side note, there was no mention of any ban as I went through the checkpoint at the gate on my return flight to Seattle on NW 33 this morning out of AMS.
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting Djw030468 (Reply 1):
Being the onerey person I am...I will test the system tonight. I wonder if my Advil Gel caps and hair spray gel will make it? Probably! Stay tuned!

It's easy. Just put a item (if it's small enuff...travel toothpaste, small deodorant, make up...) in your pocket. Make sure it doesn't stick out, and make sure you take all metal off so you don't beep.

I do it all the time.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15275
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 9:47 am

I had created a thread on this subject last week, with a MSNBC.com article link noting that liquids and gels were getting abord pax aircraft, noting the problems of the TSA to deal with this new security demand. I do agree with some that the rule will have to modified to deal with the reality (and parapharase about guns) that liquids don't kill, it's people that kill.
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:18 pm

Canada will allow liquids/gells purchased past security to be taken aboard aircraft, except for flights to the US, effective Sep 22.
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 2:35 pm

On a flight from LAX-MUC (on LH) a week and a half ago, the woman next to me had a large tin of face cream (say 10 cm in diameter) and a 16 oz bottle of sprite. I commented to her that she shouldn't have either... she roller her eyes at me and said in a thick accent that if they didn't stop her, she'd take whatever she wanted!

I don't necessarily agree with the rule, but was startled at how meaningless it is.

On my return trip, the security in MUC was MUCH MUCH tighter than in LAX. I guess that shouldn't surprise me...
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:22 pm

Quoting Cpos (Thread starter):
checks and balances in place and working properly.

Are they? Or are some people just acting brainless and follwing orders without question? In my opinion the gateagent was in the right here

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 7):
My question here is whether these kinds of sporadic checks will deter attempts

Not the slightest!

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 5):
I had to take away at least 6 bottles of water during flights just yesterday alone.

Whoopiii another boost to a stewarsess selfesteem "See I actually have power" get a life! Do you get high on these these little powertrips?

Quoting Tbird (Reply 9):
Plus as it stands now it is a rule issued by the gov't, yes its a stupid rule but we need to follow it

NO WE DO NOT! It is our duty to challange government whenever we feel the need to do so - it is the only way to change thnings. We should NOT rool over backward to any stupid rule put forward by a (totalitarian) government
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
StuckInCA
Posts: 1657
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:55 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:31 pm

Quoting 747400F (Reply 16):
NO WE DO NOT! It is our duty to challange government whenever we feel the need to do so - it is the only way to change thnings. We should NOT rool over backward to any stupid rule put forward by a (totalitarian) government

I agree that the rule is worthless (or nearly worthless), but challenging it at the airport.... challenging the TSA agent will do nothing but end a journey. Letter writing, voting, and activism in general, are the only hope to change things. Until then, we have no rational choice but to deal with the rules or no travel.

Quoting 747400F (Reply 16):
Whoopiii another boost to a stewarsess selfesteem "See I actually have power" get a life! Do you get high on these these little powertrips?

Have a beer. Relax a bit. If the LAW is that you can't take liquid on board, then why would you say that it is a "power trip" for the flight attendant to help ensure that the law is followed?
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:40 pm

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 17):
then why would you say that it is a "power trip" for the flight attendant to help ensure that the law is followed?

Because the law is stupid! And even a stewardess should be able to make 2 and 2 make 4. If she sees a pax drinking water from a bottle even she should be able to make out that it is not explosives the pax is consuming.

Removing waterbottles has in my view absolutely no other purpose than to exercise power - hence the powertrip comment!
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Wed Sep 20, 2006 11:15 pm

Quoting 747400F (Reply 16):
Whoopiii another boost to a stewarsess selfesteem "See I actually have power" get a life! Do you get high on these these little powertrips?



Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
Removing waterbottles has in my view absolutely no other purpose than to exercise power - hence the powertrip comment!

They HAVE to of they get FIRED. It is a LAW. It has nothing to do with a 'power trip'. Do you really think the FA's CARE?

Damn dude...How's your tinfoil hat fit?
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
Sukhoi
Posts: 1561
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 3:03 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 15):
On a flight from LAX-MUC (on LH) a week and a half ago, the woman next to me had a large tin of face cream (say 10 cm in diameter) and a 16 oz bottle of sprite. I commented to her that she shouldn't have either... she roller her eyes at me and said in a thick accent that if they didn't stop her, she'd take whatever she wanted!

She proberly bought that at the dutyfree shop in LAX and got the facecream delivered to her at the gate/aircraft. The sprite however is a forbidden item bought at a café and should´nt have been onboard!

At ARN the dutyfree shops deliver the dutyfree-forbidden alcohol, creams, gels mascara etc in sealed bags to the customer at the gate for flights to the US. Like they do in US airports when flying to international destinations. So don´t get scared when people put on some mascara and perfume on international flights!

Sukhoi
 
N839MH
Posts: 303
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2001 4:05 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:27 am

I was observing TSA conducting a "random liquid check" for a flight at DFW. TSA was staged at a desk set up 15' from the boarding door. They were pulling customers to their table randomly looking for "ilegals"...luquids that is!

As they were doing that...4 people walked right past the TSA agents and boarded with large bottles of bottled water and two customers walked past them with sodas bought from Taco Bell...when this was brought to their attention...they just said oh well!

Its all fluff!
Solodude!
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:41 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 18):
Because the law is stupid!

Yes, but however stupid the law is, it is the law. It only shows how stupid the USA government is. And how inadequate it is. And yes I agree that you have to challange the law in order to change it. I don't agree with the speed limits on the Danish highways, but I still have to follow them, and if I don't I get fined... The F/A are not on a powertrip, just doing there jobs. Just like I think that it is stupid that you can't your hand luggage under the next chair. If we were to crash land the overhead bins would for sure open and luggage would fly around and knock out somebody. And you would still have a mess on the floor... Stupid rule, but they still have to enforce it...

Quoting B777-700 (Reply 19):

Damn dude...How's your tinfoil hat fit?

How does your fit...?  Smile
Life's for Living!
 
Pilot3033
Posts: 107
Joined: Wed May 24, 2006 4:39 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:48 am

Quoting HangarRat (Reply 7):

My question here is whether these kinds of sporadic checks will deter attempts.

No.
In reality, the TSA or airport security in general won't deter a terrorist, or anyone else for that matter. Security might stop your run of the mill crazy idiot with a weapon, but if you were so convicted in your beliefs that blowing up an airplane, or using it as a a weapon, would be good... there would be nothing that could stop you. You would design your plan to get around airport security. And there in lies the problem, the TSA is a show. They are there to make you FEEL safer, to be used as evidence that the government is doing it's job to protect you.
In fact, they protect (or at least should be protecting) you by using their intelligence agencies to stop terrorists. For example, the British stopping the plot that caused this mess. The problem is the people currently in charge want to use these non events (I say 'non' because we stopped them) as evidence of a threat, when in fact this is evidence of someone doing their job (which is not news). Taking these events and blowing them out of proportion is a tool used in order to promote fear.
The final problem in all of this, is that while we all complain, is that nobody does anything worth while. We are losing our liberty left and right and where groups would once take to the streets and protest, write letters and vote, now there is this feeling of "oh well".
Me? I'm not going to change what I do for some meaningless ban. And I say BAN, because it's not a law as far as I know. Laws take time, and need to be passed by votes. They don't happen overnight. It's a ban (because flying is not a "right"). You can't be arrested for taking liquid on a plane, but you can be taken off the flight. (A risk I'm willing to take for the sake of my freedom and liberty.)
-Matt
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:06 am

Hey y'all...keep it up! You are doing great! Keep mentioning which checkpoints at what airports are not enforcing the ban...what you are getting thru...how much is getting thru...and where. That way anyone with an agenda can easily figure out where to go to get something onboard...just read a.net to see where to smuggle! Great solution y'all have!! a.nutters know it all!!!

 sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic   sarcastic 
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:11 am

Quoting Pilot3033 (Reply 23):
Taking these events and blowing them out of proportion is a tool used in order to promote fear.

It sounds like it is taken out of a MIchael Moore movie...  Smile But yes there is that question. Is there a real thread or is it more of a "real" thread from the governement...
But the fact is that the American people along with every other society wants to feel safe... It is a human trade. It is the second lowest "need" humans have. The lowest is food, sleep, keeping warm.(Maslow's hierarchy of needs
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow's_hierarchy_of_needs
)
Life's for Living!
 
B777-700
Posts: 1244
Joined: Thu Oct 28, 1999 10:52 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting SK909 (Reply 22):
How does your fit...?

Huh?

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 24):
Hey y'all...keep it up! You are doing great! Keep mentioning which checkpoints at what airports are not enforcing the ban...what you are getting thru...how much is getting thru...and where. That way anyone with an agenda can easily figure out where to go to get something onboard...just read a.net to see where to smuggle! Great solution y'all have!! a.nutters know it all!!!

Riiiight.  Yeah sure
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
mjlhou
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:16 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 16):
Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 5): I had to take away at least 6 bottles of water during flights just yesterday alone.
Whoopiii another boost to a stewarsess selfesteem "See I actually have power" get a life! Do you get high on these these little powertrips?

Quoting Tbird (Reply 9):Plus as it stands now it is a rule issued by the gov't, yes its a stupid rule but we need to follow it
NO WE DO NOT! It is our duty to challange government whenever we feel the need to do so - it is the only way to change thnings. We should NOT rool over backward to any stupid rule put forward by a (totalitarian) government

Good job at identifying yourself as an ignorant person who has never worked in this business! If you also looked at my profile you would also see I'm a guy...not a "she".

In the airline business, we have to follow the rules! I may not like all of them, but it's not MY choice to make! If I don't enforce the rules, then I face not only criticism from others onboard....but even worse, a possible very steep personal fine from the FAA. Do you want to pay my fine so you can have your bottle of water??
Don't worry about things you can't change or control
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:40 am

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 24):
Hey y'all...keep it up! You are doing great! Keep mentioning which checkpoints at what airports are not enforcing the ban...what you are getting thru...how much is getting thru...and where. That way anyone with an agenda can easily figure out where to go to get something onboard...just read a.net to see where to smuggle! Great solution y'all have!! a.nutters know it all!!!

Yahh, right... Anybody with an agenda, will find ways of knowing. Regularly visiting bars near airports, and drinking "useful" people under the table, making them give away. The oldest trick in the book.
Life's for Living!
 
D950
Posts: 472
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 12:17 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 2:18 am

[quote=Hiflyer,reply=24]Hey y'all...keep it up! You are doing great! Keep mentioning which checkpoints at what airports are not enforcing the ban...what you are getting thru...how much is getting thru...and where. That way anyone with an agenda can easily figure out where to go to get something onboard...just read a.net to see where to smuggle! Great solution y'all have!! a.nutters know it all!!!

Or, someone who can do something will read it, and get the TSA to extract their heads from their large intestine.
Resting on your laurels is a synonym for flirting with disaster
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:20 am

Quoting D950 (Reply 29):
and get the TSA to extract their heads from their large intestine.

YES!!! Lets hope so...
Life's for Living!
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 10:57 am

Somewhat off the topic, but the threat level for U.S. aviation has been at orange for nearly a month. I seem to remember that Homeland Security felt that raising the threat level for extended periods of time wasn't a good idea, because people will become complacent.

In other words, if the level is at orange, and nothing happens, then people won't ever take a red threat level seriously.

So, is there any idea when the threat level will be reduced to orange? Some people suspected that the threat level would be reduced shortly after September 11th. Today is the 20th, and no one is even discussing lowering the threat level.
 
sk909
Posts: 244
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 7:38 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:05 am

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 31):

The threat level should always be low. If you keep it high, people do become complacent.
Wandering where they get that threat level from? Is it a dice they role?
Life's for Living!
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15275
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 12:11 pm

As I have noted before in threads complaining about the USA's TSA, that the frequent, sometimes trivial and iconsistant changes are to me intentional - first to intimindate and second to upset possible planning by terrorists. Some items are quite reasonably banned not only on aircraft, but in almost all courthouses like knives, knitting needles, certain tools, based on reason and past experience.
By banning liquids for now, the TSA agents can concentrate better on electronic items, other items in carry ons' that could be used as part of terror weapons. It also prevents the use liquid/gel base products as parts of chemicals for bombs, as even having them drink it is stupid as if know you will be dying in an hour or two means if drinking poison or do your bomb and kill yourself. It would also for now make the terrorists think of some other way to do their killing, perhaps one of greater risk of getting caught or with poor success probabily.
Perhaps we could limit to reasonable amounts of personal care products such as shampoo, toothpaste, and so on to 'travel sizes' and in original packages but not canned or bottled beverages, except for baby formula or purchased in the airport.
 
lredlefsen
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:50 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:15 pm

Quoting Pilot3033 (Reply 23):
And there in lies the problem, the TSA is a show.

Not to mention a great job creation program. What exactly are the minimum qualifications required to be a screener, and what other kind of job could a person thus qualified have landed in the last 5 years?

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 31):
Somewhat off the topic, but the threat level for U.S. aviation has been at orange for nearly a month.

Yes -- it's not good. I know I keep rambling on about Bruce Schneier, but I really have to agree with him on one of his recent op-eds:

http://www.schneier.com/essay-124.html
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 3:58 pm

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 27):
Good job at identifying yourself as an ignorant person who has never worked in this business!

Wrong again. I did work in the industry for years.

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 27):
my profile you would also see I'm a guy...not a "she".

In trolly dolly world is there really a great difference?

Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 27):
I may not like all of them, but it's not MY choice to make

Oh yes it is, every one has a choise, it is up to you to use that choise.
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
bluewhale18210
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 3:23 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:27 pm

Quoting 747400F (Reply 16):
We should NOT rool over backward to any stupid rule put forward by a (totalitarian) government

Yeah, at great cost to taxpayers, too. I once asked the TSA supervisor what they will do with the bottles (3 33-gallon trash cans full of them). Realize it is asked at 3AM and I was in uniform so there should be a relaxed atmosphere and near truthful answer; I was hoping to land on some so I can get money from recycling. Her answer surprised me: they all go back to their headquarters... Geez, sending them back to Washington everyday? I guess the Feds ARE the ones printing the money...

Quoting SK909 (Reply 22):
Yes, but however stupid the law is, it is the law. It only shows how stupid the USA government is. And how inadequate it is. And yes I agree that you have to challange the law in order to change it.

So you always drive under the speed limit, huh? 'Cause even you are 1mph (or 1km/h) over that number you are breaking the law...

Quoting Pilot3033 (Reply 23):
In fact, they protect (or at least should be protecting) you by using their intelligence agencies to stop terrorists.

The successfully foiled plots are the ones you never hear about.
JPS on A300-600RF A319/320 B737-400/800 B757-200F B767-300F CRJ-200/900. Looking to add more.
 
FutureFO
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2001 10:58 pm

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:51 pm

As FA's there is a reason that we are there. It is for the safety of the passengers on the plane. Which does include monitoring and enforcing the ban on liquids. Unfortunately the TSA does not catch everything, but it is also the responsibility of the gate to enforce the rules as well. I have made comments to the gate agents to remind them about the ban. They then get right on it. Someone who is crazy enought could drink liquid nitro glycerin or other items, because they do not care.
I Don't know where I am anymore
 
speedbird203
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:54 pm

Does anybody think there is ANY way what so ever i can get onboard my international flight to the USA tommorow with Vicks Vapor Rub?
Metro Tower 135.0
 
747400F
Posts: 464
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2004 3:36 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:18 pm

Quoting SpeedBird203 (Reply 38):
Does anybody think there is ANY way what so ever i can get onboard my international flight to the USA tommorow with Vicks Vapor Rub?

I can easily understand why you would want to bring is on board - I often do on long flights.

Should be possible to do.
1) Have one jar of it openly in your bag for the moron to find and conficate. That'll make them happy ie: "see how efficient we are"

then, either
2a) have another one deep in your pocket of your coat, which you fold several times before you out it throgh the scanner

2b) have som of the stuff out of the jar in a small plasticbag in say shirtpocket or jeanspocket - it wont show on the metaldetector, and as the stuff is pretty strong you wont need all that much any way, so no need to have a big bag of it. The rest you ship in your checked luggage.

You get your medicine, the morons get their enjoyment from catching a "dangerous" substance, and all is happier and just as safe as they were before
All humans have the right to marry the one they love
 
SmithAir747
Posts: 1906
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:30 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:41 pm

If you are carrying a musical instrument (ie, a stringed or wind instrument) onboard, you MUST remember to make sure you don't forget any liquid or gel instrument fluids that are in your case! By this I mean: Violin rosin-dust cleaning gels, instrument lubricants, valve lubricants, and other fluids and gels used in the care and maintenance of your instrument.

Since these are in small bottles, these are very easy to forget that you have them in your case.

I learned this the hard way just this last Sunday (17 September), as I was going through FWA security with my violin case! (Read my trip report about it, "Home from London for Summer: LHR-ORD-FWA-CVG-LGW").

As I was going through FWA security to get on my DL Connection (Comair) flight to CVG (on my way to LGW), I had my violin case with me (with my green violin). The TSA agents, upon passing my violin case through the x-ray station, took it out and very nervously began looking at it! They set it down on the table at the end of the conveyor belt, opened the case, and looked thoroughly over my green violin and the interior of the case. Lo and behold, they opened the small accessory pocket in the coffin-shaped case and found---a tiny bottle of violin rosin-dust cleaner gel! I had totally forgotten this was in my case! Needless to say, they confiscated this "terrorist weapon"!

And I thought I had left all my weapons at home!  

So remember, musicians, when you carry your instruments onboard, always check inside your case for any little bottles of instrument fluids!

SmithAir747

[Edited 2006-09-21 14:44:49]
I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made... (Psalm 139:14)
 
speedbird203
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jun 26, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Thu Sep 21, 2006 9:49 pm

That does sound like a possible reason, But they say don't cross security with anything in your pockets. I really don't know what to say, i know they don't even let anything on the plane once thorough security to US bound destinations.
Metro Tower 135.0
 
mjlhou
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:35 am

Quoting 747400F (Reply 35):
Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 27):my profile you would also see I'm a guy...not a "she".
In trolly dolly world is there really a great difference?

Yes, cuz I'm married to a woman....obviously..u thought otherwise.

Quoting 747400F (Reply 35):
Quoting Mjlhou (Reply 27):Good job at identifying yourself as an ignorant person who has never worked in this business!
Wrong again. I did work in the industry for years.

Obviously...it's been way too long for u. It's a completely different world in the US than it was before 9-11-01. It's also alot different from most other countries. We are forced to take the safety part of our jobs much more seriously than before. Again...if u didn't catch my comment before, I'm not willing to risk a STEEP PERSONAL FINE from the FAA so a pax can have a dumb bottle of water.

The point is...I don't agree that this rule is very effective or that it should remain in place as is. Maybe something like Canada is doing would work? My self or any other crew member for that matter can't arbitrarily decide which FAA or TSA mandates to follow and wich ones not to follow, fines will be enforced if you're caught knowingly allowing a pax to get away with liquids.....period. The TSA is the with the power trip.
Don't worry about things you can't change or control
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4172
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:50 am

Quoting Djw030468 (Reply 3):
We'll see tomorrow

And we still wonder!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
 
EWRCabincrew
Posts: 4323
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 2:37 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:53 am

The rules are ridiculous and the checking, rather, lack thereof, is laughable. One thing though, as a flight attendant (steward, stewardess, whatever is needed to get our attention) we are constantly aware and vigilant of suspicious activity onboard.

The bottle of water being drank out of by an 80 year old grandmother, the make-up palate being used by the woman getting ready for her date after arrival, the small bottle of hair gel being used by the 20-something young man to look more hip are innocuous. But to the terrorist who has one thought only - to bring down this airplane and everyone onboard with them for the sake of their cause - they are much more than that.

I have heard many times over and over that "it's just a bottle of water" or "what can be done with gel?". I usually pipe up and say the truth, in the wrong hands, a hell of a lot more than a safe trip across the pond.

As a flight attendant, I am told what rules/laws to uphold. Whether they be company policy, FAA mandates or government rules and restrictions (which change daily, I might add). I am not on a power trip. I am not here to make your life miserable. The bottle of water or cup of coffee I ask to take from you and dispose of is necessary as it is a rule I must follow. I can assure you if I don't take it, someone notices and "rats me out, I will have to answer to a higher authority and my job could be in jeopardy. All because of "it's just a cup of coffee". No cup of coffee or bottle of water is worth the loss of my income and means to support my family.

If I should ask you to take it, then let me do my job, please. I understand the GREAT inconsistencies out there, the redundancies and the lack of information and misinformation that people pass on to others. I see it everyday. It really is ridiculous.

Flying is tough today. For everyone. It sucks. Plain and simple. I, like many others who work in this industry, try to make your travels less stressful and actually enjoyable.

For those who "sneak" onboard the gel caps, the little bottles of water and whatnot to "get one over" on the rules in effect. Great. The rules in place are full of loopholes. However, it's not you I worry about. I worry about the one person who has far more sinister plans with those items that they "sneak" onboard.

I don't have the winning solution to the problem at hand. If I did, I would not be a flight attendant. In the mean time, I am. I try to stay on top of things in an ever changing environment. I try to pass that on to you, the traveller, to keep you informed and on top of things, too.

I will probably get flamed for what I wrote.

Just my  twocents .
You can't cure stupid
 
mjlhou
Posts: 149
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Liquid Getting Past The Gate

Fri Sep 22, 2006 3:51 pm

EWRcabincrew...I agree with your words 1000%...thanks for finding a great way to convey this message!
Don't worry about things you can't change or control

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