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charlipr
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JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:34 am

JetBlue has asked the Federal Aviation Administration for eight arrival slots at Chicago O'Hare Airport. The landing rights would allow it to start service at the airport in November.

Source: Travel Weekly

Sorry if it has been posted, but I did a search and could not find anything.
 
LHUSA
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:51 am

I'm not familiar with the whole application process. Is B6 likely to get these slots???
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:00 am

Here is the article.

JetBlue asks FAA for Chicago (O'Hare) landing spots
Travel Weekly (10/03/2006)

JetBlue has applied for landing rights that would let it begin offering service to Chicago's O'Hare Airport this November.

The low-cost carrier, based at New York's Kennedy Airport, has asked the Federal Aviation Administration for eight arrival slots at O'Hare between 8 a.m. and 7:59 p.m.

To contact the reporter who wrote this article, send e-mail to Andrew Compart at [email protected]
 
style
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:32 am

I guess they didn't learn their lesson with EWR and the ATC delays. Talk about wanting to mess up your on-time arrivals rate even more.
 
GoBlue
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:35 am

They cannot ignore Chicago much longer, there are too many people in that Chicago area that can fly to destinations in Florida, California and NY state. Jetblue can deal with the delays as they do already, without too much difficulty.

I personally feel this will be a good move to Jetblue, as long as they take a measured approach!

Cheers!
 
vtnyc
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:57 am

Quoting Style (Reply 3):
guess they didn't learn their lesson with EWR and the ATC delays. Talk about wanting to mess up your on-time arrivals rate even more.

When you allot a block time of 4 hours for an 800 mile segment, you can't be too late. Utilization might take hit though.

VT-NYC
 
mlsrar
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:03 am

Quoting GoBlue (Reply 4):
They cannot ignore Chicago much longer, there are too many people in that Chicago area that can fly to destinations in Florida, California and NY state

And these people cannot accomplish this with the presence of AA and UA with megahubs?
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:16 am

"I guess they didn't learn their lesson with EWR and the ATC delays. Talk about wanting to mess up your on-time arrivals rate even more."

If they want to be a major player in the US, they have to serve Chicago. Even with a token presence, they have to serve Chicago.

And let's not talk about Gary or any other mid-western town that we NYers only know as the murder-capital of the US. They need to serve Chicago and it needs to be ORD and/or MDW.

Good move jetBlue.

PJ
 
AUSBlue
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:59 am

I was wondering when this was going to get out. We have been hearing rumors of this for sometime. Starting service in winter season would prove interesting to say the least. I have no idea what routes we would service (other than the obvious). Talk about a shot-gun start if all goes according to plan, eh?
 
GoBlue
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 6):

And these people cannot accomplish this with the presence of AA and UA with megahubs?

They can accomplish this, but at what fares? We have seen many hubs take a hit with the entrance of low cost carriers. Ex Southwest at Denver, Airtran at ATL. these cities will respond to the carrier who is able to offer the cheaper product and decent services.... not saything that all chicago people are not loyal to UA or AA, but some people will want a change!
 
DAYflyer
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:32 am

A good and neccessary move by B6. A post above is absolutely correct-if you want to be a major, you gotta serve Chicago.
 
PanAm747
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:37 am

I would think Gary airport would bend over backwards to give B6 a good deal...

While ORD and MDW are both O&D and hub/transfer airports, the congestion at both can be a killer.

B6, however, would be solely O&D. Virtually traffic-free (at the airport, not the roads leading to it!), it would completely avoid the RJ mess one finds at other area airports.

I agree, though, that whatever B6 decides - it must include the metro Chicago area in one form or another.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 4:42 am

If JetBlue is awarded these slots, I smell a blood bath at ORD coming.....
UA will probably start flying JFK-ORD-JFK and AA will upgrade the ERJs currently on the route faster than you can read this message. This is going to get very interesting !
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:15 am

Quoting AUSBlue (Reply 8):
Starting service in winter season would prove interesting to say the least.

If you're talking weather related delays, ORD encounters many more weather related delays during spring, summer and early fall due to t-storms than they ever do during winter months.

As winds are rarely out of the east for any duration, you gotta go to the south and/or east side of Lake Michigan to get some REAL snow...... aka "lake effect" and "lake enhanced."
 
bravogolf
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:17 am

For those that are interested, the actual document can be viewed at the DOT website. Go to http://dms.dot.gov click on simple search, enter the document number FAA-2004-16944-142
 
bravogolf
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:23 am

OOOPs for the JetBlue application just enter the docket number 16944 you then have to scroll down to 142
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting NorthwestEWR (Reply 12):
AA will upgrade the ERJs currently on the route faster than you can read this message. This is going to get very interesting !

A few MadDogs on the route instantly. Smile
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:41 am

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 16):
A few MadDogs on the route instantly. 

I think we'd see the MD-80s, 757s and maybe even 767s on the route. If AA wanted to go all out they could put 767-200s on the route and sell the Biz Class as economy.
 
supa7E7
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:51 am

I think this could be an E190 route. It is very well served already but B6 has SOME loyalist demand to pay high fares. ORD will be a boutique market for B6, nothing more.
 
B6DC10
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:52 am

...All of you scoffed when I said that B6 would announce service to O'hare...expect something official to follow shortly!
 
COERJ145
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:52 am

I wonder if they'll try LGB or OAK service from ORD besides the odvious(JFK)?  scratchchin 
 
MiCorazonAzul
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 5:53 am

All I have to say is. IT'S ABOUT TIME!!!! I too am very excited about this. I know ORD is delay prone however we will make it work just like EWR.

Chicago....HERE WE COME!  Big grin
 
jacobin777
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:18 am

Quoting NorthwestEWR (Reply 17):

I think we'd see the MD-80s, 757s and maybe even 767s on the route. If AA wanted to go all out they could put 767-200s on the route and sell the Biz Class as economy.

The problem is that I'm not so sure if the capacity is there.....ORD-LGA is the de facto standard for Chicago to New York...but you're right, AA could run a blitzkrieg on that route.....

..that being said however, AA has given up on a few B6 routes such as SJC-BOS.....
 
B6DC10
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:20 am

Expect LGB 2x daily and JFK 6x daily
 
lowecur
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 19):
All of you scoffed when I said that B6 would announce service to O'hare...expect something official to follow shortly!

I wouldn't take it too badly. It comes with the territory when you post this type of stuff.

Your original post was days before the letter was even sent to the FAA, so an immediate announcement was never in the offing. Either way you obviously have a credible source that I'm sure B6 is trying to track down.

I see the editor at Marketwatch posted a notice of the letter to the FAA by Jetblue. It shows that even those guys read these boards.
 
iowaman
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:26 am

UA is definitely letting their voice heard and is asking the DOT to deny B6's request:

UA: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p87/416545.pdf
 
B6JFKH81
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:28 am

I am not too familiar with the Chicago area, so please forgive me here. I am wondering what the pro's and con's are when comparing ORD and MDW in reference to an operation like B6's? Your input is appreciated!
 
Wsan581
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:30 am

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 6):
And these people cannot accomplish this with the presence of AA and UA with megahubs?

Why not?

I remember when B6 announced IAD and BOS, everyone wrote B6 off...this is a business route and LGA and EWR are the only way to make money on these routes. Well jetBlue is profitable on both routes and they don't fly BOS/LGA/EWR, or IAD/LGA/EWR, they fly to JFK. In fact 2 of the BOS runs are now 320's.

If the business man will fly B6 from BOS and IAD to JFK, then why won't they fly ORD/JFK?
 
N353SK
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Style (Reply 3):
I guess they didn't learn their lesson with EWR and the ATC delays. Talk about wanting to mess up your on-time arrivals rate even more.

You're right, B6 probably shouldn't fly to the 3rd largest city in the country if they might be late sometimes  Yeah sure

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 26):
I am not too familiar with the Chicago area, so please forgive me here. I am wondering what the pro's and con's are when comparing ORD and MDW in reference to an operation like B6's? Your input is appreciated!

ORD is much easier to get to for a lot of Chicago's suburbs. MDW is in the middle of the city and can fall victim to traffic all the time.
 
ScottB
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Wsan581 (Reply 27):
I remember when B6 announced IAD and BOS, everyone wrote B6 off...this is a business route and LGA and EWR are the only way to make money on these routes. Well jetBlue is profitable on both routes and they don't fly BOS/LGA/EWR, or IAD/LGA/EWR, they fly to JFK.

Is there any substantiation that jetBlue is "profitable" on JFK-BOS or JFK-IAD? The yields on these routes remain weaker than the routes of comparable stage length to upstate New York, and they are using aircraft with higher ASM costs as well.

Chicago-New York is an enormous market, and there are certainly enough price-sensitive travelers/JetBlue loyalists out there to fill the planes at some price level. ORD is probably a good short-term choice, but slot limitations and lack of gates will make it difficult for JetBlue to add offer more than 8-10 daily flights from ORD for several years. And it's certainly not unfathomable that Southwest might choose to enter the MDW-JFK market.
 
SilentObserver
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:50 am

Does it strike anyone as coincidental how Indy Air filed immediately after JetBlue for the right to sell their unused 10 slots.

Also note the slots JetBlue applied for: 8:30, 9:30, 10, 10:30, 11, 11:30, 1130 & 1800. There is only one listed in the afternoon or evening at 6pm, odd.

Does anyone know what slots Indy owns? Perhaps a lot of afternoon slots?

If Indy is selling 10 slots and JetBlue obtains 8 as a new entrant thats 18 slots, they would have a sizeable operation with 18 slots.

Anyword on where they would be getting the gates? That is the hard part at ORD.
 
GoBlue
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 7:56 am

Is B6 able to just Purchase Indy's slots and operate like that, or do they need to get gate space and everything organised. Who is using Indy's old gate space?

Cheers to B6 @ ORD

Jason
 
COERJ145
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:01 am

Quoting Silentobserver (Reply 30):
Anyword on where they would be getting the gates? That is the hard part at ORD.

Ex-Indy-Air gates?
 
FCYTravis
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:33 am

It's rather premature to be talking about what JetBlue is going to be flying out of ORD at this point, when it's far from clear whether their slot request will be successful or not. United's comment seems to have the law on its side.

At any rate, B6 will not make any announcement until the FAA makes a ruling - it would be highly embarassing to ballyhoo their new ORD service only to have the DOT reject their slot motion.
 
AUSBlue
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:39 am

Quoting Iowaman (Reply 25):
UA is definitely letting their voice heard and is asking the DOT to deny B6's request:

UA: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/p87/416545.pdf

Competition is fun isn't it? LOL
 
Wsan581
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:50 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 29):
Is there any substantiation that jetBlue is "profitable" on JFK-BOS or JFK-IAD

I can't post an actual link to prove this...but like I said earlier, they have permanently upgraded 2 flights to 320's. Also keep in mind if it was not profitable like EWR/SJU, MCO/BUR, etc. would they keep this route?
 
airportplan
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:53 am

Quoting Silentobserver (Reply 30):
Also note the slots JetBlue applied for: 8:30, 9:30, 10, 10:30, 11, 11:30, 1130 & 1800. There is only one listed in the afternoon or evening at 6pm, odd.

This odd timing may indicate that B6 is planning to operate from gates at O'Hare's Terminal 5 (International Terminal). There are no gates availiable at T5 between 12:00 and 18:00.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 8:53 am

What is lost on this whole discussion is that fares from NYC to CHI are already very low. UA and AA already offer deeply discounted fares that are very easy to obtain - low advance purchase requirements and minimum stays.

It's a heck of a lot harder for an LFC to get into a market that already has low fares and passengers that are very loyal to the incumbents who offer dozens of flights per day from the more preferred LGA airport.

I'm not saying B6 won't make it but JFK-ORD is far from going to be a slam dunk for B6.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting Silentobserver (Reply 30):
Does anyone know what slots Indy owns? Perhaps a lot of afternoon slots?

Accordign to Independence Air's docket flied with the DOT, FlyI had slots at 7:30 AM, 8:45 AM, 10:15 AM, 11:45 AM, 1:45 PM, 3:15 PM, 4:45 PM, 5:45 PM, 7 PM, and 8:30 PM.

So yes, Indy Air did have a lot of afternoon slots... chances are that B6 probably wants to acquire those slots to complement the morning arrivals that they're asking for.
 
luv2fly
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 10:01 am

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 19):
...All of you scoffed when I said that B6 would announce service to O'hare...expect something official to follow shortly!

Yes you have proven yourself so reliable with your wealth of credible info! You might want to stop while your ahead.
 
ual757
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:01 am

This is bad news because there is no SEA-ORD service announcement!

LOL

 Smile
 
tsaord
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:09 am

YEA!!!! JetBlue to ORD!!! Hope it works out. They better hope it doesn't snow a lot lol.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:21 am

Quoting Silentobserver (Reply 30):
If Indy is selling 10 slots and JetBlue obtains 8 as a new entrant thats 18 slots, they would have a sizeable operation with 18 slots.

18 slots would be a good start for B6. I thought they wanted a minimum of 40 due to the expected counter attack by AA and UA?  duck 

Quoting GoBlue (Reply 4):
They cannot ignore Chicago much longer, there are too many people in that Chicago area that can fly to destinations in Florida, California and NY state.

Chicago is B6's most requested market. Even a few flights would increase the attention that B6 gets. The reality is, in certain markets one must offer certain flights to attract the business customer. JFK-ORD is one for B6's market.

Quoting B6DC10 (Reply 23):
Expect LGB 2x daily and JFK 6x daily

Interesting... so what two LGB routes get cut?

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 37):
It's a heck of a lot harder for an LFC to get into a market that already has low fares and passengers that are very loyal to the incumbents who offer dozens of flights per day from the more preferred LGA airport.

While its true that B6 will have a difficult time getting Chicago customers, the reality is that they should have little trouble from their JFK base attracting enough customers for a dozen flights a day.

This would also be a "toe hold" into the Chicago market. One that they would eventually open up. This isn't like PE EWR-MSP with a 747. This will be ~half dozen flights/day from B6's main airport.

Its past due. In fact, B6 really needs to see about getting dozens of more slots at ORD. How else will they get the E190's to the west coast!  Wink

Lightsaber
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:25 am

Yes, they have filed with the DOT, but, IMO, who says it will get it in the end, things can change.

Its not just a rubber stamp.

$.02
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:34 am

Quoting Tsaord (Reply 41):
YEA!!!! JetBlue to ORD!!! Hope it works out. They better hope it doesn't snow a lot lol.

That's like saying "does it get hot in the Sahara Desert during the middle of summer?"... Wink
 
jetBlueNYFL
Posts: 264
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:35 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 37):
What is lost on this whole discussion is that fares from NYC to CHI are already very low. UA and AA already offer deeply discounted fares that are very easy to obtain - low advance purchase requirements and minimum stays.

Yes AND no. Fares between NYC and CHI are cheap, compared to other routes of comparable distance and market. I've been lucky to pay as low as $116 RT, LGA-ORD on AA...however last minute, for a funeral, AA wanted $1,100 RT. I think that is where jetBlue will come in - more reasonable walk-up/last-minute fares. Also, the change fee on jetBlue is $25...not $100. Many factors add up and jetBlue will have a lot to offer on this route, if it does happen.
 
jacobin777
Posts: 12262
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 11:57 am

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 45):

Yes AND no. Fares between NYC and CHI are cheap, compared to other routes of comparable distance and market. I've been lucky to pay as low as $116 RT, LGA-ORD on AA...however last minute, for a funeral, AA wanted $1,100 RT. I think that is where jetBlue will come in - more reasonable walk-up/last-minute fares. Also, the change fee on jetBlue is $25...not $100. Many factors add up and jetBlue will have a lot to offer on this route, if it does happen.

..but you are possibly making the assumption AA won't drop last second fares, as well as the service charge...

..as I said earlier, whether B6 succeeds @ ORD or not, that is debatable, one thing isn't debatable though is that photographers like us will have more photos/opportunities to take of some nice looking birds.. biggrin 
 
jetblueatjfk
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RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting Lightsaber (Reply 42):
Interesting... so what two LGB routes get cut?

I think they had 2 slots unused either from acquiring them from AA and plus downgrading JFK-LGB from 8X to 6X this year might have freed it up. What ever t is I don't think they'll be cutting anything but you never know.

This is excellent news and can't wait for it to start us. Aren't they cutting it kind of close, starting in November? It is already early October, unless they will start it later in the month in time for thanksgiving, then maybe it'll be ok, but it is still a kind of short amount of time, don't you guys think?

B6jfk airplane 
 
AUSBlue
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 6:34 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:21 pm

Quoting JetBlueAtJFK (Reply 47):
I think they had 2 slots unused either from acquiring them from AA and plus downgrading JFK-LGB from 8X to 6X this year might have freed it up. What ever t is I don't think they'll be cutting anything but you never know.

This is excellent news and can't wait for it to start us. Aren't they cutting it kind of close, starting in November? It is already early October, unless they will start it later in the month in time for thanksgiving, then maybe it'll be ok, but it is still a kind of short amount of time, don't you guys think?

Without getting into too much detail of the information I have, I believe LGB would have the slots open for Nov. if they chose to do a LGB-ORD route. There's going to be some scheduling changes in the near future. (Personally, I would like to see a LGB-HOU flight, but that's my personal wish.)

And yes, it is a VERY short amount of time, considering how many flights they want to start with. But, like with every station we have started this year, it'll get done.

Of course, all of this is speculation until an official announcement is made.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15181
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: JetBlue Applies For Slots At O'Hare

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 37):
UA and AA already offer deeply discounted fares that are very easy to obtain - low advance purchase requirements and minimum stays.

Poor CO. Nobody ever remembers them when talking about ORD. After all, they only offer 7 daily 735 shuttles on the EWR route, and also have low fares.

Altogether, CO, UA, AA and DL offer 85 nonstops between NYC and ORD. I'm sure there's room for 4-5 B6 flights and nobody is going to go bankrupt...

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