Hey, just got back from a flight today in a C152 with a good friend of mine. The flight was great, but it did take the aircraft several tries to get started. After a few choice words and a lot of throttle work, he eventually got her to fire up. Just wandered if this is fairly normal for smaller aircraft, feel free to share your own hard starting stories.
Scaredflyer21
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
Hi,
Yes, normal.
I experienced C172, Katana Diamond and others and all the same. Worst or even impossible to start when is cold outside (-20c). No FADEC still on old small plane.
Yes, normal.
I experienced C172, Katana Diamond and others and all the same. Worst or even impossible to start when is cold outside (-20c). No FADEC still on old small plane.
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- APFPilot1985
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
Fuel Injected C172's can be hard to start when they are hot.
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
| Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 2): Fuel Injected C172's can be hard to start when they are hot. |
That's interesting. I can understand the old carbed engines being hard to start on a cold damp day, but a fuel injected one? Why don't they improve their engine management system?
Most modern cars will start reliably under any weather conditions so long as there's enough juice in the battery. Why it would be any different for modern small planes is beyond me.
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- APFPilot1985
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
| Quoting Brons2 (Reply 3): Most modern cars will start reliably under any weather conditions so long as there's enough juice in the battery. Why it would be any different for modern small planes is beyond me |
most modern cars have fadec and the fuel in controlled by a computer whereas on most ga aircraft the fuel has to be controlled manually
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- scaredflyer21
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
What about commercial jets? Are they ever hard to start under certain conditions (hot, cold, etc.)?
Also, what are the common procedures for starting a piston engine when it is hot? Is it usually advisable to "pump" the throttle when cranking? My friend did this on his C152 as he said it was the only way to get it to fire when hot. I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping.
Scaredflyer21
Also, what are the common procedures for starting a piston engine when it is hot? Is it usually advisable to "pump" the throttle when cranking? My friend did this on his C152 as he said it was the only way to get it to fire when hot. I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping.
Scaredflyer21
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- uadc8contrail
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
im really hard to start in the morning but the smell of pilfered starbucks off the plane usually gets me up and running at a nice pace.....crap...im sorry im in the wrong forum 
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
In my experience, unless it is very cold (sub 25 F), most properly-functioning aircraft start easily.
Hot, on the other hand, can be a nightmare, especially with the fuel injected models. I have developed the technique fairly well now, but can tell you that I have run down the battery before trying to start up an injected IO550 Continental. Much cursing, helped little.
And pumping the throttle? That's inviting a fire! Have seen it done.
As for FADEC, just beginning to hit the market for GA aircraft. Cost of certification is the problem, as they must be sufficiently redundant so as not to be susceptible to failure. Rememebr, as built, typical GA aircraft does not rely upon the plane's electrical system to run, with two independent mechanical ignition systems (magnetos) and mechanical fuel pump feeding either a carburetor or continuous fuel injection system.
Hot, on the other hand, can be a nightmare, especially with the fuel injected models. I have developed the technique fairly well now, but can tell you that I have run down the battery before trying to start up an injected IO550 Continental. Much cursing, helped little.
And pumping the throttle? That's inviting a fire! Have seen it done.
As for FADEC, just beginning to hit the market for GA aircraft. Cost of certification is the problem, as they must be sufficiently redundant so as not to be susceptible to failure. Rememebr, as built, typical GA aircraft does not rely upon the plane's electrical system to run, with two independent mechanical ignition systems (magnetos) and mechanical fuel pump feeding either a carburetor or continuous fuel injection system.
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
Back in the day, CV 880's were VERY difficult to start, especially in the super cold temp of winter operations at ORD. Massive clouds of exhaust would build behind the aircraft. A passenger asked a gate agent what was causing the display, "bad rings", he was told.
RE: Hard Starting Planes
| Quoting Scaredflyer21 (Reply 5): I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping. |
Would it get close to flooding? As I understand it, the throttle valve just controls how much air passes through the venturi in the carborator (the air intake), the lower pressure caused by the speed of air being forced through the venturi is what draws fuel into the stream, If the aircraft isn't moving at all there's really no air coming into the air intake and thus no fuel in the cylinders (priming, anyone?), so pumping the throttle wouldn't flood the engine until the engine has, theoretically, already started. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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- mandala499
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
The Cessna 402 I used to use was damn hard to start... We even burnt the battery on a start once! That was a fast evacuation! LOL !
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- AirTranTUS
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
| Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 9): Quoting Scaredflyer21 (Reply 5): I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping. Would it get close to flooding? |
During my flight training, I flooded the engine a few times by pumping the throttle. The airplane was not equipped with a primer and the throttle had to be pumped a few times before attempting to start. If it cranked a few times (>5) without starting, I pumped the throttle but that would flood it. I then had to put the throttle to full and pull the mixture all the way back, after it started, then the levers wer adjusted to their proper positions.
I learned how to start it correctly and have not had a problem since.
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RE: Hard Starting Planes
| Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11): If it cranked a few times (>5) without starting, I pumped the throttle but that would flood it. |
Ok so you're talking about pumping it after cranking it, I guess if the engine is cranking it's sucking air through the venturi.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
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