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scaredflyer21
Topic Author
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 6:52 am

Hard Starting Planes

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:37 pm

Hey, just got back from a flight today in a C152 with a good friend of mine. The flight was great, but it did take the aircraft several tries to get started. After a few choice words and a lot of throttle work, he eventually got her to fire up. Just wandered if this is fairly normal for smaller aircraft, feel free to share your own hard starting stories.

Scaredflyer21
 
aad665
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Dec 21, 1999 11:03 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Thu Oct 05, 2006 1:48 pm

Hi,

Yes, normal.
I experienced C172, Katana Diamond and others and all the same. Worst or even impossible to start when is cold outside (-20c). No FADEC still on old small plane.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:36 pm

Fuel Injected C172's can be hard to start when they are hot.

Some of the early lear's are a bit tricky to learn
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brons2
Posts: 2480
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2001 1:02 pm

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Thu Oct 05, 2006 2:55 pm

Quoting APFPilot1985 (Reply 2):
Fuel Injected C172's can be hard to start when they are hot.

That's interesting. I can understand the old carbed engines being hard to start on a cold damp day, but a fuel injected one? Why don't they improve their engine management system?

Most modern cars will start reliably under any weather conditions so long as there's enough juice in the battery. Why it would be any different for modern small planes is beyond me.
Firings, if well done, are good for employee morale.
 
APFPilot1985
Posts: 1840
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 12:51 pm

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Thu Oct 05, 2006 3:00 pm

Quoting Brons2 (Reply 3):
Most modern cars will start reliably under any weather conditions so long as there's enough juice in the battery. Why it would be any different for modern small planes is beyond me

most modern cars have fadec and the fuel in controlled by a computer whereas on most ga aircraft the fuel has to be controlled manually
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scaredflyer21
Topic Author
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2000 6:52 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2006 2:59 pm

What about commercial jets? Are they ever hard to start under certain conditions (hot, cold, etc.)?

Also, what are the common procedures for starting a piston engine when it is hot? Is it usually advisable to "pump" the throttle when cranking? My friend did this on his C152 as he said it was the only way to get it to fire when hot. I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping.

Scaredflyer21
 
uadc8contrail
Posts: 1665
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:23 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2006 3:17 pm

im really hard to start in the morning but the smell of pilfered starbucks off the plane usually gets me up and running at a nice pace.....crap...im sorry im in the wrong forum Smile
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sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Sun Oct 08, 2006 4:00 pm

In my experience, unless it is very cold (sub 25 F), most properly-functioning aircraft start easily.

Hot, on the other hand, can be a nightmare, especially with the fuel injected models. I have developed the technique fairly well now, but can tell you that I have run down the battery before trying to start up an injected IO550 Continental. Much cursing, helped little.

And pumping the throttle? That's inviting a fire! Have seen it done.

As for FADEC, just beginning to hit the market for GA aircraft. Cost of certification is the problem, as they must be sufficiently redundant so as not to be susceptible to failure. Rememebr, as built, typical GA aircraft does not rely upon the plane's electrical system to run, with two independent mechanical ignition systems (magnetos) and mechanical fuel pump feeding either a carburetor or continuous fuel injection system.
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xaphan
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2003 11:09 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:34 am

Back in the day, CV 880's were VERY difficult to start, especially in the super cold temp of winter operations at ORD. Massive clouds of exhaust would build behind the aircraft. A passenger asked a gate agent what was causing the display, "bad rings", he was told.
 
DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2006 3:45 am

Quoting Scaredflyer21 (Reply 5):
I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping.

Would it get close to flooding? As I understand it, the throttle valve just controls how much air passes through the venturi in the carborator (the air intake), the lower pressure caused by the speed of air being forced through the venturi is what draws fuel into the stream, If the aircraft isn't moving at all there's really no air coming into the air intake and thus no fuel in the cylinders (priming, anyone?), so pumping the throttle wouldn't flood the engine until the engine has, theoretically, already started. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same
 
mandala499
Posts: 6597
Joined: Wed Aug 29, 2001 8:47 pm

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:03 am

The Cessna 402 I used to use was damn hard to start... We even burnt the battery on a start once! That was a fast evacuation! LOL !

Mandala499
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AirTranTUS
Posts: 3313
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2005 9:12 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2006 4:03 am

Quoting DLKAPA (Reply 9):
Quoting Scaredflyer21 (Reply 5):
I just wonder how close he gets to flooding it with all of that pumping.

Would it get close to flooding?

During my flight training, I flooded the engine a few times by pumping the throttle. The airplane was not equipped with a primer and the throttle had to be pumped a few times before attempting to start. If it cranked a few times (>5) without starting, I pumped the throttle but that would flood it. I then had to put the throttle to full and pull the mixture all the way back, after it started, then the levers wer adjusted to their proper positions.

I learned how to start it correctly and have not had a problem since.
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DLKAPA
Posts: 7962
Joined: Wed Dec 03, 2003 10:37 am

RE: Hard Starting Planes

Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:38 am

Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 11):
If it cranked a few times (>5) without starting, I pumped the throttle but that would flood it.

Ok so you're talking about pumping it after cranking it, I guess if the engine is cranking it's sucking air through the venturi.
And all at once the crowd begins to sing: Sometimes the hardest thing and the right thing are the same

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