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WINGS
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Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Tue Oct 10, 2006 11:02 pm

For some time I have meaning to start a tribute to various airplanes which I believe had a great impact on commercial aviation. For my first tribute I have chosen the Tupolev 144.


http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-68.jpg

The Tupolev Tu-144 was a supersonic transport (SST) constructed under management of the Soviet Tupolev design bureau headed by Alexei Tupolev.

Building of the first prototype of TU-144 ("044") was started in 1965. Simultaneously the second prototype was being built for static tests. Prototype "044" was initially intended for 98 passengers, later on this number was increased to 120. Correspondingly design take-off weight was increased from 130 tones to 150 tones. The prototype was built at "Opyt" Plant. In 1967 main aircraft components assembly was completed. In late 1967 the "044" prototype was moved to Zhukovskiy where the aircraft was being added with lack parts during all year 1968.

http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-26.jpg
http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-30.jpg

In late 1968 the "044" prototype (side No.68001) was prepared for the first flight. The flight crew was assigned as follows: test pilot E. Yelian , co-pilot -- M.Kozlov, leading test engineer V.Benderov and flight engineer Y. Seliverstov. In view of novelty and uncommonness of the new machine the Design Bureau began extraordinary approach: it was first time when prototype passenger aircraft was provided with ejection crew seats. During whole month they performed engines running, rolling, final ground checks of the systems. From the end of December , 1968, the machine was completely ready to perform the first flight. And finally on the last day of 1968 "044" lifted-off in Zhukovskiy for the first time and rapidly climbed. The first flight lasted for 37 minutes.

According to flight crew the aircraft proved to be flexible and easily piloted. The first flight became the vent of world-wide importance and main milestone in history of Russian and International aviation. It was the first flight of Soviet supersonic passenger aircraft, and it had achieved this two months before the Concorde would take to the skies on March 2 1969.



The development of the Tu-144 is said to be closely related to industrial espionage against the French company Aérospatiale, which was developing Concorde, although the Tu-144 flew first. The similarity of the Tu-144 to the Franco-British supersonic aircraft was superficially very great, but the differences in the control, navigation, and engine systems were dramatic. Another significant difference is that the Tu-144 wing did not have the complex curves found on that of Concorde, instead using small retractable canard surfaces to manoeuvre at low speeds.




At the Paris Air Show on June 3, 1973, the development program suffered a severe blow when the first Tu-144S production aircraft (reg 77102) crashed. While in the air it undertook a violent downwards manoeuvre. Trying to pull out of the subsequent dive, the plane broke up and crashed, destroying 15 houses and killing all six on board and eight on the ground. Unfortunately this would not be the last time in which the Tu-144 would suffer an accident.

The Tu-144S went into service on December 26, 1975, flying mail and freight between Moscow and Alma-Ata in preparation for passenger services, which commenced in November 1977 and ran a semi-scheduled service until the first Tu-144D experienced an in-flight failure during a pre-delivery test flight, and crash-landed with crew fatalities on May 23, 1978. The Aeroflot flight on June 1, 1978 would be the Tu-144's 55th and last scheduled passenger service. A scheduled Aeroflot freight-only service recommenced using the new production variant Tu-144D aircraft on 23 June 1979, including longer routes from Moscow to Khabarovsk made possible by the more efficient RD-36-51 engines used in the Tu-144D version. Including the 55 passenger flights, there were 102 scheduled Aeroflot flights before retirement of commercial services.



A total of 16 airworthy Tu-144s were built: the prototype Tu-144 reg 68001, a pre-production Tu-144S reg 77101, nine production Tu-144S reg 77102--110, and five Tu-144D reg 77111--115. A seventeenth Tu-144 (reg 77116) was never completed. There was also at least one ground-test airframe constructed for static testing in parallel with the prototype 68001 development.
The Tu-144S model had NK-144 turbofan engines, whereas the later Tu-144D model featured more powerful RD-36-51 engines with better fuel efficiency (particularly during supercruise, not requiring afterburner) and longer range. It was also one of the last commercial airplanes with a brake-parachute, together with early Tu-134.
http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-34.jpg

Although its last commercial passenger flight was in 1978, production of the Tu-144 would not cease until six years later, in 1984 when construction of the partially complete Tu-144D reg 77116 airframe was stopped. During the 1980s, the last two production aircraft to fly were used for airborne laboratory testing, including research into ozone depletion at high altitudes.

In the early 1990s a wealthy businesswoman, Judith DePaul, and her company IBP Aerospace negotiated an agreement with Tupolev and NASA, (also Rockwell and later Boeing). They offered a Tu-144 as a testbed for its High Speed Commercial Research program, intended to design a second-generation supersonic jetliner. In 1995, Tu-144D [reg 77114] built in 1981 (but with only 82 hours, 40 minutes total flight time) was taken out of storage and after extensive modification at a total cost of US$350 million was designated the Tu-144LL (where LL is an abbreviation for Flying Laboratory). It made a total of 27 flights in 1996 and 1997. In 1999, though regarded as a success, the project was cancelled for lack of funding.

The only Tu-144 on display outside the former Soviet Union was acquired by the Auto & Technikmuseum Sinsheim in Germany, where it was shipped --- not flown --- in 2001 where it stands in its original Aeroflot livery, on display next to an Air-France Concorde.

General Characteristics:



Crew: 3
Capacity: 120-140 passengers General characteristics
Length: 65.50 m (215.54 ft)
Wingspan: 28.80 m (94.48 ft)
Height: 10.50 m (34.42 ft)
Wing area: 438.0 m² (4,715 ft²)
Empty weight: 85,000 kg (187,400 lb)
Loaded weight: kg (lb)
Max takeoff weight: 180,000 kg (397,000 lb)
Fuel capacity: 70,000 kg (154,000 lb)
Performance
Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,550 mph)
Cruise speed: Mach 2.16 (2,300 km/h, 1,430 mph)
Range: 6,500 km (3,500 nm, 4,000 mi)
Service ceiling: 18,000 m (59,100 ft)
Rate of climb: m/s (ft/min)
Wing loading: kg/m² (lb/ft²)

http://www.tupolev.ru/English/Show.asp?SectionID=148
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tupolev_Tu-144

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
afay1
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Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:43 am

I doubt that the Soviet government would characterize it as a commercial aircraft contributing to world commerce. Aside from that comment, bravo on the fitting tribute!
 
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autothrust
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Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 12:55 am

For me this machine is the most beatiful supersonic plane.  duck  (concorde is a beauty though)

Have seen a documental about it and there was a info that the Tu-144 was so strong build as no other planes.

Sad this wonder doesnt fly anymore, same for concorde.  crying 

Btw: Interesting topic Wings, well done.
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NewSky
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:38 am

Great read! Fascinating plane, well done Wings!
 
Treg
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:43 am

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
had a great impact on commercial aviation

Well... I would not use exactly these words...  Yeah sure

Otherwise, great post!  bigthumbsup 
 
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Stitch
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:50 am

Good tribute, WINGS. The PBS show "NOVA" did an interesting review behind Soviet espionage on the Concorde project in "Supersonic Spies". Had some nice footage of 68001's first flight.

After the crash of 77102 (supposedly trying to evade a French military plane taking pictures of her), I understand that changes to the airframe included a more complex "double-delta" wing (ala Concorde's) and the engines being spaced farther apart in two seperate modules (of two engines each) rather then the original "four in a box".
 
WINGS
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Afay1 (Reply 1):
Aside from that comment, bravo on the fitting tribute!



Quoting AutoThrust (Reply 2):

Btw: Interesting topic Wings, well done.



Quoting NewSky (Reply 3):
Great read! Fascinating plane, well done Wings!



Quoting Treg (Reply 4):

Well... I would not use exactly these words... Yeah sure

Otherwise, great post!



Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Good tribute, WINGS.

Thank you all for your kind words. I'm glad that you have enjoyed it. Stay tuned to see my next tribute  Smile

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
dallasnewark
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:34 am

Quoting WINGS (Reply 6):
Thank you all for your kind words. I'm glad that you have enjoyed it. Stay tuned to see my next tribute

Regards,
Wings

There's still one frame that is in good shape and if my memory serves me well, it is at Ramenskoye airport(a main cargo airport).

I'm sure that for some kind of a fee you can even go inside of it.
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:54 am

Great post WINGS real interesting. A great change from the usual A vs B type of topic, Looking forward to the next one
 
ca2ohHP
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Keego (Reply 8):
Great post WINGS real interesting. A great change from the usual A vs B type of topic, Looking forward to the next one

Agreed...thanks for the excellent post.
 
GDB
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:08 am

Good tribute to a fascinating aircraft.

However-if Concorde had a very limited impact on commercial avaition, TU-144 had none.
Never really being in proper service.
The aircraft just did not work.
Had it, the USSR would have gleefully put it on routes to Cuba, and/or New York (via SNN?)-look, no US SST, but we've got one!
A Sputnik/Vostok with wings and passengers.

The fact the USSR never tried to actually operate it internationally, or on long term domestic services (who'd dare complain about overland sonic booms in the USSR?), speaks volumes.

Partial reheat in the whole of supercruise-so range/payload is gone, without a decent variable intake system-they even, desperately, asked BAC if they could buy and adapt Concordes system, not in the Cold War-could be applied to large supersonic military aircraft, Concorde's system was a BAC Guided Weapons Division product-part numbers even had 'GW' prefix's, very high cabin noise-pax seated next to each other on the short lived, limited internal services-communicated by passing written messages, vibration problems and biblical engine unrealiability.

The original version got airborne before the first Concorde prototypes-as directed by the Kremlin, but was even further from an operational aircraft than even Concorde Prototypes 001/002-which today we'd call 'Technology Demonstrators'.
However, the redesign from Concordes 001/002 to production standard, while extensive, was small fry compared to the virtually new airliner that Tupelov showed at Paris in 1973, compared to what flew in 1968.
The wing design in particular was poor, as well as other aspects such as the intake config.

Tupelov was a good design team, but they were handed a near impossible task, with crazy timeframe requirements.

In late 1997, NASA visited BA Concorde Engineering.
They wanted to see how a tiny fleet of unique, long out of production air vehicles was maintained, issues like vendor support etc.
They thought Concorde was a sort of Franco-British counterpart to the Apollo Programme. A large effort requiring a lot of new technology.

If so, then TU-144 was the airline version of the N1 Moon Rocket -done to beat the US Apollo effort, but started years too late, with political interference and impossible timescales, requiring the designers to 'shunt engineer' or try to circumvent areas where they were lagging.
With inevitable results.

But, thanks for the tribute, it was a fascinating aircraft to be sure.
(NASA brought one back with much better engines in the late 1990's for research, since AF and BA could not spare any Concordes, I doubt Airbus-the descendant of it's builders, would like Boeing having that sort of access either).
 
A342
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
After the crash of 77102 (supposedly trying to evade a French military plane taking pictures of her), I understand that changes to the airframe included a more complex "double-delta" wing (ala Concorde's) and the engines being spaced farther apart in two seperate modules (of two engines each) rather then the original "four in a box".

I think there are some mistakes in your post. First, the Concorde doesn't have a double-delta wing. The Tu-144 had it from the start. Compared to the prototype, the Tu-144S had the following major differences: The sweep in the first part of the double-delta was reduced. As you say, it has a different engine arrangement. Also it has the retractable canards. BUT: These changes were already made before the crash ! It was a Tu-144S that crashed.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
cobra27
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:21 am

Very nice post. Good job
 
RICARIZA
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:34 am

Excellent. Please keep up with the tributes.

Thanks!
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Stitch
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:11 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 11):
I think there are some mistakes in your post. First, the Concorde doesn't have a double-delta wing. The Tu-144 had it from the start. Compared to the prototype, the Tu-144S had the following major differences: The sweep in the first part of the double-delta was reduced. As you say, it has a different engine arrangement. Also it has the retractable canards. BUT: These changes were already made before the crash ! It was a Tu-144S that crashed.

You're right. Concorde and the TU-144 had an ogee wing, which was a variation on the double delta which was used by Lockheed in their L-2000 SST proposal.

And you are also correct in noting that the TU-144 had those changes implemented to her prior to Paris, as GDB outlined.
 
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:15 am

Shame that the Tu-144 that was up for sale was without engines. I wonder about the tires who made them and how much better would the Michelin tires used by the Concorde after the accident be?
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keesje
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:33 am

Thnx Wings for an interesting post!

A remarkable Tu-144LL landing:
http://www.tvdata.ru/video/22a.wmv?P...D=bea85b52ece128ae35c16aa8a3d1c084
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autothrust
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:46 am

 Wow! Awesome Video Keesje thanks for sharing. I just love the sound of this beast.  cloudnine 
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richierich
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:10 am

WINGS: Thanks for a great history on a fascinating aircraft, although I think its impact to the world of aviation was actually pretty small. Concorde may have been second, but it clearly made a much bigger footprint in the annals of history than the Tu-144.

Sort of strange that the Le Bourget area was witness to two thirds of the world's supersonic transport crashes - Tu-144 at Goussainville in 1973 and the Concorde crash at Gonesse in 2000. Different times, different circumstances, but strangely ironic.

Question: what exactly happened at the Paris Air Show crash? Were the pilots "showing off" or going outside of the known range for the aircraft? After all, it was an air show. Or was it a design/structural fault?
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B2707SST
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:04 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
You're right. Concorde and the TU-144 had an ogee wing, which was a variation on the double delta which was used by Lockheed in their L-2000 SST proposal.

To be more precise, Concorde and the "prototype" TU-144 used ogee delta planforms, while the "production" TU-144 and the L-2000 used a double-delta. Although the prototype's wing strongly resembled Concorde's in plan, it was purely optimized for supersonic cruise and lacked Concorde's intricate twist and droop, which enhance low-speed lift and help control center-of-lift movement at supersonic speed.

The production TU-144 was radically redesigned compared to the prototype: the fuselage was significantly enlarged, the engine inlets were split into two pods, the main landing gear was moved, the wing was totally redesigned with a new planform and shaping, and retractable canards were added. The TU-144Ds later received new engines.

Prototype TU-144 - note smooth, Concorde-like curvature of leading edge and nearly flat wing:
http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-17.jpg

Production TU-144 - features a sharply kinked double-delta planform, more twist and droop in outboard wing sections, retractable canards:
http://www.tupolev.ru/images/Pictures/Archive/144-68.jpg

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Stitch
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:16 am

Quoting Richierich (Reply 18):
Question: what exactly happened at the Paris Air Show crash? Were the pilots "showing off" or going outside of the known range for the aircraft? After all, it was an air show. Or was it a design/structural fault?

Based on info provided at http://home.comcast.net/~yoshac/TU144/index.html, it looks like the Russians disabled some of the flight control limitations to allow the airplane to perform stronger maneuvers (as it was being "shown up" some by Concorde). This caused a fault in the system that sent the elevons into a dive while the pilot was instructing a climb via the control column. This pitched the plane into a steep dive and probably flamed out one or more of her engines. In an attempt to pull-out of the dive they overstressed the airframe, which failed and broke apart.
 
sovietjet
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 9:53 am

The Paris Air Show crash is still debated. I dont wanna start an argument about it but it seems both sides are partially true. The test pilot was told to do "something more..." so that he can outperform the Concorde. But on the other hand there has been proof of a spy Mirage in the region so it is unknown which caused it or if maybe it was an unlucky combination of both. There is a forum member....I believe RIX, who has flown on the Tu-144 and has said it's pretty noisy. But in Yefim Gordon's book about it it doesn't mention that. My dad saw the Tu-144 back in the early 1970s when it came to Sofia for a visit, he said that on takeoff it was very impressive. Interesting story about it, Balkan had a Tu-134A parked next to it, so if anything should fail or the Tu-144 would happen to be delayed or cancelled they would at least show the "new Tu-134A" instead of being left empty-handed after all the media buzz around its arrival.
 
rpaillard
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:06 pm

Hi WINGS,

Everything single post from you on this website is a premium.
Always accurate, sharp and balanced.

That's not that common.

Big up for you Guy.

By the way, the "tribute" idea is tremendous. So, please, go ahead with more!

Raphael
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virgin747
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 1:56 pm

I love the TU-144 over the Concorde... Its a fabulous plane.... Otherwise I got a feeling theres a debate brewing here so I did a search on a PBS show that I watched a while back. It was "Nova" and the title was Supersonic spies... It went indepth about the competition between the two aeroplanes. Some theories the Russians stole a design to a French Mirage hitting the TU-144 at the Paris Airshow.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2503supersonic.html
here's a transcript from the show itself... i'd recommend buying the video or find it online....
 
LH648
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 2:05 pm

My grandma was lucky to fly on Tu144 as a passenger...

Actually Aeroflot didn't want to operate Tu144 - maintenance was too complicated. And no benefits for airline - there was no market for Tu144 in USSR. Actually there was no market in USSR at all.

So they was pushing to get rid of it... And thats why Tu144 had a very-very short commercial story...
 
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 3:04 pm

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
For some time I have meaning to start a tribute to various airplanes which I believe had a great impact on commercial aviation. For my first tribute I have chosen the Tupolev 144.

Wings,
great job! The 144 is a really interesting aircraft; moreso in my mind than Concorde. While not a successful commercially as the Concorde ( did it ever break even? ) it seems more interesting to me. I love the canards at the front and the "bus windows" visible with the nose folded down. I also love the Soviet style landing gear. Very tough.  bigthumbsup 

Lets not forget this other notable supersonic beast!
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/ecn-2128.jpg
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/ec68-2131.jpg
http://area51specialprojects.com/XB-70/xb7000161.jpg

iwok
 
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 25):
While not a successful commercially as the Concorde ( did it ever break even? )

Concorde made a fortune for BA, not only directly but also indirectly......in terms of prestige & brand value alone the fleet is sorely missed. After all BA's biggest piece of advertising is still the model of Concorde with the caption "Concorde.....timeless" situated at the entry to the LHR road tunnels.
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Superfly
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 4:54 pm

Awesome tribute WINGS!

What a shame Monino was closed when I visited Moscow last June.  Sad
I was looking forward to getting some photos of my own.
Bring back the Concorde
 
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:35 pm

Once again thank you all for your positive feedback.  Smile It sure means alot to me.

Like I previously mentioned, I have now posted a new tribute thread. This time the tribute goes to the Lockheed L-1011 Tristar.

https://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3035490

Hopefully by early next week I will manage to post my third tribute. So stay tuned  Smile

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
AmericanB763ER
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting GDB (Reply 10):
However-if Concorde had a very limited impact on commercial avaition, TU-144 had none.

Apart from being the very first SST to actually take to te air - TU 144's had pratically none.

Did a TU-144 ever achieve Mach 2.35 in real life? (The one flown by NASA...?)

Great report, WINGS (I always thought that the TU 144 never has carried a single passenger).

Marco
 
jush
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:22 pm

I still love the Tu144 more than Concorde. It just looks better
Thanks for your detailed and brilliant tribute

Regds
jush
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TaromA380
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:04 pm

What is the fate of the built frames ?
 
newagebird
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:58 pm

Fantastic tribute...ive always admired tupolev...they were always that other company no one really knew too much about. Wish i could've flown that aircraft but i did fly a TU-154 when Balkan Bulgarian had them, not a bad experience even though it was loud!

Good work though
Respect Shane
 
halls120
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
a great impact on commercial aviation.

How so?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 18):
WINGS: Thanks for a great history on a fascinating aircraft, although I think its impact to the world of aviation was actually pretty small. Concorde may have been second, but it clearly made a much bigger footprint in the annals of history than the Tu-144.

Concur with all of the above. A great post, but I have a hard time agreeing with the claim that the Tu-144 "had a great impact on commercial aviation."
"Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself." Mark Twain, a Biography
 
WINGS
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:18 pm

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 33):
Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):
a great impact on commercial aviation.

How so?

Quoting Richierich (Reply 18):
WINGS: Thanks for a great history on a fascinating aircraft, although I think its impact to the world of aviation was actually pretty small. Concorde may have been second, but it clearly made a much bigger footprint in the annals of history than the Tu-144.

Concur with all of the above. A great post, but I have a hard time agreeing with the claim that the Tu-144 "had a great impact on commercial aviation."

Hi Richierich and Halls120,
I believe that all previous airplane designs and programs have helped mold aviation as we know. Even though it had little sales and commercial success it did provide a transition of many military technologies into civil aviation. It also provided the world with the very first SST.

Had the Tu-144 not suffered from those two disasters it could have had a better ending.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
osiris30
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:25 pm

Quoting Iwok (Reply 25):
Lets not forget this other notable supersonic beast!

Now *that* was a plane  Smile Valkery (or however you spell it LOL).. mmmmmmmm... I want one  Wink
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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Stitch
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:27 pm

The North American XB-70 Valkyrie. Fantastic plane. Ranks right up there with Concorde as the prettiest thing man has sent into the skies.
 
LH648
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:39 pm

Quoting Newagebird (Reply 32):
What is the fate of the built frames ?

Tu-144 CCCP-68001/00-1 Experimental. Scraped
Tu-144 CCCP-77101/01-1 Pre-serial. Scraped
Tu-144S CCCP-77102/01-2 First serial Tu-144. Crashed at Le Bourge
Tu-144S CCCP-77103/02-01 Scraped
Tu-144S CCCP-77104/02-2 Scraped
Tu-144D CCCP-77105/03-1 Converted to 144D immediatly after beeing built. Experimental. Scraped
Tu-144S CCCP-77106/04-1 At Monino Museum. Was used for cargo flights between Moscow and Almaty.
Tu-144S CCCP-77108/04-2 At Samara Aviation Institute
Tu-144S CCCP-77107/05-1 At Kazan Aviation Institute
Tu-144S CCCP-77109/05-2 At Voronezh Aircraft Plant. Was used for scheduled service with passangers between Moscow and Almaty.
Tu-144S CCCP-77110/06-1 At Ul'yanovsk Aviation Museum. Was used for scheduled service with passangers between Moscow and Almaty.
Tu-144D CCCP-77111/06-2 Crashed near Egor'yevsk
Tu-144D CCCP-77112/07-1 At Sinsheim Museum, Germany
Tu-144D CCCP-77113/08-1 Scraped
Tu-144D CCCP-77114/08-2 In Zhukovsky. Tu144LL
Tu-144D CCCP-77115/09-1 In Zhukovsky.
Tu-144D CCCP-77116/09-2 Was not completed, stored at Voronezh Aircraft Plant. From other sources - completed, but never flown...
 
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HAWK21M
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:42 pm

Great Tribute.Fantastic Pictures especially the rare ones  Smile
regds
MEL
I may not win often, but I damn well never lose!!! ;)
 
osiris30
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Wed Oct 11, 2006 10:46 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 36):
Fantastic plane. Ranks right up there with Concorde as the prettiest thing man has sent into the skies.

I think fantastic is an understatement. M3 heavy bomber, I just wish I could have heard what she sounded like.. all those engine (6 wasn't it?).. the roar must have been incredible.

My top 5 beauty list would probably be (and I'm sure I'm leaving something out here)

Concorde
TU-144
B722
The X plane with the reverse swept wings (too lazy and late for work to look it up LOL)
XB-70

Honorable mention to the F14 simple because I've had the honor of being very close to one when it went full throttle on a climb out and literally shook the ground...  drool 
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GDB
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Thu Oct 12, 2006 2:51 am

I've seen the discussed show about the 1973 Paris crash, if it is the same programme, it was originally a BBC production shown in the late 1990's.

But-the whole spying thing is way overdone.
Sure they did have an effort to glean technical info, but it hardly did them much good did it?
Never solved the fundamental flaws and limitations of the design, that without constraints of having to 'beat Concorde' into the air, might eventually have borne commercial service fruit.

The request for the use of the BAC Air Intake Control System is very telling.
The French security service did get wind of spying, so started to feed false info, only publically admitting they allowed an impractical formula for tyres to reach the USSR.

I seriously doubt there was any attempt from a Mirage, to 'spy' on the TU-144 whilst flying it's display.
The programme reckoned they might have been after info on the canards fitted to this new TU-144.
Problem is, Dassault had flown a Mirage with retractable small canards, (in the lower forward fuse of the modified Mirage III), in 1968.
5 years before the accident.

Boeing found out, after the delays and impractical nature of it's original VG designs, that a delta config-albeit with a tail in their case-was the best way to go.
Tupolev was no fool, he'd have worked that out without any spying.

Ironically, what helped to doom the B2707 was also a requirement to 'beat' Concorde, not into the air, but in much greater speed.
From JFK's insistance that the US SST would be faster, Mach 3, later Mach 2.7, after Pan Am CEO, Juan Trippe, optioned Concorde well before anyone else, in 1963, with the intention of kick starting a US programme.
 
A342
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Thu Oct 12, 2006 4:11 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 14):
You're right. Concorde and the TU-144 had an ogee wing, which was a variation on the double delta which was used by Lockheed in their L-2000 SST proposal.



Quoting B2707SST (Reply 19):
To be more precise, Concorde and the "prototype" TU-144 used ogee delta planforms, while the "production" TU-144 and the L-2000 used a double-delta.

To my knowledge, the following is true:

Concorde: ogee wing

Tu-144 prototype: sharply kinked double-delta

Tu-144 production models: double-delta with a smoother kink.


I have a book about the Concorde which also features the Tu-144. There are 2 pictures clearly showing the differences between the Tu-144 prototype and the production model. May I scan and post them ? If yes, I'd do so, but I want to be sure.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
tu204
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Thu Oct 12, 2006 6:35 am

Good post.
Regarding the differences between the prototype and the production model, there was a big difference. I spoke to test pilot Edward Elyan (captain of the first Tu144 flight) about this, he told me that the prototype handled like a cow on final approach - he had to fight to keep it in control. The production model flew very smoothly when the forward wings were extended (canards) and easy handle, although a bit faster than conventional aircraft. By the way on a related topic, he was also the captain of the Tu144 that crash-landed (the "second" crash that you speak of). He was blamed for it and had to leave Tupolev for Sukhoi.
Keep in mind that the S model and D models were different too. The fusulage was almost the same but the RD36A engines gave it a huge boost in performance. It could fly Moscow - Khabarovsk with a slight payload penalty while the S could fly Moscow - Alma-Ata with a slight penalty (Khabarovsk is an 8.5 hour flight by Tu-214 or B767 making it the third longest domestic flight in the world after Moscow - Vladivostok and Moscow - Petropavlovsk-Kamchatski)
My colleague at Tupolev worked on the 144 and said it was pretty sad because they thought the project would be resumed and that it was all temprorary. Indeed looking at the logbook of ship 77112 it was "conserved" from 1982 untill the last entry - Feb 21 1989. All of the entries read "Conservation for 30 days completed" for 7 years. All aircraft were ready to go within a week if asked to.
I am pretty happy that the two remaining Tu-144's at Zhukovsky will be preserved and not end up getting scrapped (as we feared). As I had posted earlier, 77115 is in perfect condition other than the paint job while 77114 is not that pretty - the interior is a mess. You cannot get in to either of them unless you have contacts that work at Zhukovsky. Security is very tight there in recent years. Even the times that I got into them I was not supposed to. If everything goes as we plan, the plane will be on display and open to the public so anyone that wishes would be able to see it (this goes for ship 15).
I do not dream about movie stars, they must dream about me for I am real and they are not. - Alexander Popov
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Thu Oct 12, 2006 8:39 am

A great read Wings ... I visited the Sinsheim museum earlier this year and what a wonderful sight it is seeing Concorde and the Tu-144 side by side. They might look the same but up close and inside there's plenty of differences. Would've loved to have flown on either birds, but I wasn't born until after the Tu-144 stopped flying.
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
A342
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Tu204 (Reply 42):
I am pretty happy that the two remaining Tu-144's at Zhukovsky will be preserved and not end up getting scrapped (as we feared). As I had posted earlier, 77115 is in perfect condition other than the paint job while 77114 is not that pretty - the interior is a mess. You cannot get in to either of them unless you have contacts that work at Zhukovsky. Security is very tight there in recent years. Even the times that I got into them I was not supposed to. If everything goes as we plan, the plane will be on display and open to the public so anyone that wishes would be able to see it (this goes for ship 15).

One of them is the Tu-144LL, right ? Do you also have performance data for that one ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
RIX
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:09 am

Quoting Sovietjet (Reply 21):
There is a forum member....I believe RIX, who has flown on the Tu-144

- no, it wasn't me  Smile... I've flown on Concorde; as for Tu144, I only saw one (in Monino).

Quoting WINGS (Thread starter):

Capacity: 120-140 passengers
Maximum speed: Mach 2.35 (2,500 km/h, 1,550 mph)
Cruise speed: Mach 2.16 (2,300 km/h, 1,430 mph)
Range: 6,500 km (3,500 nm, 4,000 mi)

- these are taken from two different aircraft, Tu144S and Tu144D. The former never had this range (obviously, as it required reheat on supercruise); the latter never was that fast. Plus, the latter had much less range with full capacity (max range is given, I think, for 70 passengers). Hence, this "better than Concorde" performance never existed even on paper (in reality, on its only passenger route Tu144 never had a chance to reach these numbers anyway).

As for the Paris crash, the aircraft flew beyond its approved "flight plan". So, even if "spying Mirage" (BTW, why was it "spying"? It was a show, not a secret air force base, everyone could watch and take pictures or film anything, with whatever purpose) did matter, then it's still not it's pilot fault...

...As much as I admire Tu144 as "the only other SST ever built" (it's quite ridiculous to often see B2707 listed right after Concorde in SST discussions), and despite all these "firsts" achieved by short-lived CCCP-68001 (first flight, first M1, first M2), the absolute No 1 for me is Concorde. The one that the whole planet knew as "the supersonic passenger one" during decades. The one to which, indeed, nothing other than Apollo program can be compared.

Having said that - thank you, Wings, great idea and great topic  Smile.
 
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ptrjong
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Fri Oct 13, 2006 8:27 am

Monino is supposed to have a grass runway - I never saw a runway when I was there - and the Tu-144 is said to have landed on it. Can anyone confirm this?

What about some of the other big fast jets in Monino, such as the Sukhoi T-4 and Myasishchev M-52 - did they land there too?

Thanks,

Peter Smile
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
 
sovietjet
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:35 pm

Tu204 - Did capt. Elyan ever talk to you about the second crash? From what I've read, the crash was due to inflight fire. If so, how could he be at fault? Does he know the "real" cause?
 
afay1
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:53 pm

There is a long RTR-produced show recording on the Tu-144 floating around the internet, that naturally, I cannot find a link to at the moment and is too huge to email around. The copy I have is called "Bitva za sverxzvuk Tu-144," which is something like "Battle for Supersonic" if that helps. It has all sorts of interviews and great footage!
 
A342
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RE: Tupolev Tu-144 - A Tribute By Wings

Sat Oct 14, 2006 12:02 am

Quoting RIX (Reply 45):
these are taken from two different aircraft, Tu144S and Tu144D. The former never had this range (obviously, as it required reheat on supercruise); the latter never was that fast. Plus, the latter had much less range with full capacity (max range is given, I think, for 70 passengers). Hence, this "better than Concorde" performance never existed even on paper (in reality, on its only passenger route Tu144 never had a chance to reach these numbers anyway).

I think you mean "it needed reheat in supersonic flight", other wise you would be contradicting yourself.

BTW, I think the Tu-144S had the ability to supercruise at M=1.9. But the speed it was initially planned to cruise at, M=2.2, could only be achieved with reheat.
Exceptions confirm the rule.

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