On my last flight from CCS to FRA I made one of the worst experiences of my life. I never suffered that before, and please forgive me if this was already discussed before.....

But do I, as a paying passenger, have to accept, that the 2m tal and incredibly fat man sitting next to me in coach takes at least 10 cm away from my seat ?
He was that fat, that he even hang through under the armrest onto my seat ! As it was very difficult for him to get out of his seat I didin't want to ask him too often to get up to let me out (I had window, he has the isle seat). He was travelling with a friend sitting next to him on the other side of the isle. This guy knew why he did it and didn't want to change to sit next to him. So both were aware and took into account that someone else would have a horrible flight.

When talking to the purser she said: "Well, I can imagine that this is not nice". Nothing more.
I can of course imagine that I am not the first one here who had this kind of problem.
Are there any experiences ? For example upgrading ? Are there arlines that care what they do and sit the people when they check-in by e.g. asking such people to purchase a second ticket in order to have a second seat ?

I would appreciate your comments.

Do i have to accept the white guy next to me?
Do i have to accept those hippies next to me?
Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me?
And the list could go on....

Ey, why didn't you talk to this fat guy next to you. I am shure that you
could've made some arragements about armrest, getting up and so on.

next time think!

DALelite

My parents said they recently encountered the same problem on a flight. They wrote a complaint to the airline, not demanding compensation as such, but that the airline take precautions because they said having to endure it was awful.

Obviously, the airline wasn't WN, who makes large passengers pay for 2 seats instead of just their own (if they in-fact still do that).

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on....

Sorry, but you're comparing apples and oranges. None of those you mentioned take up part of the seat YOU paid for. None of those you mentioned affect your physical comfort in any way. Chiguire wasn't complaining about the guy being fat, he was complaining about the fact that this guy took up part of his seat.

I believe that Southwest makes people who don't fit in the seat pay for a second one.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on.... Ey, why didn't you talk to this fat guy next to you. I am shure that you could've made some arragements about armrest, getting up and so on.

I think Chiguire has a valid point. It is bloody inconsiderate for someone to take up your paid-for person space, whether or not it's politically incorrect to say that. True, a very small percentage of large people have a medical condition, but the majority don't.

It's the same as being forced to sit next to someone who smells. It all conspires to piss you off, especially when you're travelling CCS to FRA and you've saved up all year to do so.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on....

Not a good analogy. He is not judging the person as you seem more of a judgmental person. The larger passenger was taking considerable space of Chiguire's paid space. 10 cm is about 25% of an ecenomy seat. What would be the limit for you 30%, 40%, 55%? Second, airlines are passing the buck and letting their passengers deal with the issue. He has a valid point and I am sure if you were in that situations you would not be all smiley and happy.

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 4): he was complaining about the fact that this guy took up part of his seat.

I was comparing apple with whatever on purpose.
Why he did't talk to the guy?

DALelite

Quoting DALelite (Reply 8): Why he did't talk to the guy?

saying what? insulting him that he is fat, or asking him to pay 25% of the paid ticket price?

Chiguire, was the flight full (suspect it as you mentioned me the caos at check-in....) was there any posibility to change seat?

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on....

Hey, come on ! This is something very different ! And this was certainly not written in order to discriminate those people that love eating a bit more than others !
But this was about the fact that I paid for the same space as he did for HIS space. And her was simply using my space. Maybe I should have given him a part of my meal as well !
Next time THINK ! - BEFORE POSTING !

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 4): Sorry, but you're comparing apples and oranges. None of those you mentioned take up part of the seat YOU paid for. None of those you mentioned affect your physical comfort in any way. Chiguire wasn't complaining about the guy being fat, he was complaining about the fact that this guy took up part of his seat.

Concur completely. Coach seats are narrow enough to begin with, and when someone is so large that the armrest can't be lowered, it simply isn't right for a paying passenger to end up with 3/4 of a seat.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 8): Quoting Scorpio (Reply 4): he was complaining about the fact that this guy took up part of his seat. I was comparing apple with whatever on purpose. Why he did't talk to the guy? DALelite

And just what would talking accomplish? A magical instant weight loss?

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 11): Maybe I should have given him a part of my meal as well !

Chiguire, you are a bad boy if you didnt gave him a part of your meal
 

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9): But seriously, fight against it because it's only when you speak up that something happens. It's why seriously obese people should have to pay more for their seat.

You are right. In the end I must admit that I just asked two flight attendants and I didn't want to insist too much. I tried to handle it the nice way with them, but it didn't work out - of course. Today I would also react earlier and insist.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 10): Chiguire, was the flight full (suspect it as you mentioned me the caos at check-in....) was there any posibility to change seat?

Only to business. There where two seats.

I'd say no - you dont have a choice - and if you kick up a fuss you will probably be arrested. So unfortunately I don't think anyone has a choice - other than to tollerate it.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on.... Ey, why didn't you talk to this fat guy next to you. I am shure that you could've made some arragements about armrest, getting up and so on. next time think! DALelite

There's a difference between a mental discomfort (eg, being bothered by a gay couple) and a physical discomfort (someone taking up part of your seat). And no. People should not have to suffer next to fat people on aircraft. Within reason, people are entitled to do what they want in public, so you'll just have to deal with the couple across the aisle (gay or straight) kissing and and hugging. If they start banging each other right there in the seats, yea, that's crossing the line. But other people aren't entitled to part of what you paid for. I view a fat person taking up part of the seat I paid for no differently than that same person taking food off my plate that I paid for in a restaurant. I don't think anyone would be too thrilled with this.
If your ass is wider than the seat, you should be given three options:
A) Buy a first or business class ticket
B) Buy a second coach ticket
C) Find another mode of transportation.
I wish more US airlines besides Southwest would enforce a "Customers of Size" policy. If you take up 15% of my seat, I think it's only fair that you give me 15% of what I paid for that seat.

This is why I love flying on ERJ 135/140/145. I love sitting on the 1 side of the 1 x 2 configuration and being able to look out the window and stretch my legs into the aisle at the same time. Plus I know I won't have anyone next to me.
Since this topic always has the "what about tall people and reclining seats" question come up, I'll address that too.
I'm 6'4 or 6'5 depending on who measures me. If the person in front of me chooses to recline their seat, I pull my legs back. It's a little uncomfortable for me, but I realize the person in front of me paid for their seat and thus has the right to recline it. I usually try to avoid this problem by sitting in the exit row (or when I fly AirTran, take advantage of the cheap upgrade to BizClass), but this is not always possible.

We're all trying to be politically correct, but as some have mentioned on this thread, we've paid for the ticket and we don't want anyone intruding on our space.

I've had obese people sit next to me and the first thing they do is to pull up the seat rest to give them more room. When the FA comes along to check the seat belts and realizes that he/she can't buckle the belt, the passenger is offered a belt extension.

As embarrassing as it may be, the fat passenger has to be strapped in before takeoff, and then the FA says that all seat rests must be in a downward position. The blubber can't do it, no matter how hard he tries because he/she is already 1/3 into my seat.

The FA, looking at the whole comical procedure, winks at me and moves me to C class where there are open seats. I have won and fat blubber has won, because now he has two seats of his own.

It was not my intention to discuss if I need to accept minorities in my surrounding or right next to me.
I am sure this is no problem for any one of us.
This was just in order to try to find out the different ways of airlines to handle it and the experiences of others either on board or on the ground after a written complaint.

referring to a fat guy as a large guy or a big guy would have been a nicer way of discussing this problem. Usually, once on the plane, the F/A try to relocate the big people to bulkhead seats or rows with few empty seats. CO does that all the time and did it this morning with a very tall guy. It depends on the airline. European carriers don't give a crap.

This is my personal opinion so take it for what it is.

If I am being charged $50 for being a few pounds overweight when it comes to luggage then the man that carries "extra baggage" whether it be on himself or in his luggage should also have to pay. Granted there may be some medical conditions and that can be dealt with on in individual basis but in general "extra baggage" means "extra fees".

ESPECIALLY because I as a passenger have no way of knowing who will be sitting in the seat next to me until they are already in the seat next to me. This is a problem that needs to be dealt with and covering up by terming at as "descrimination" is nonsense.

If a very overweight man is taking up some of my space suring the flight then he can pay for that portion he is using. (I accept cash, checks, and money orders.  )

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 18): It was not my intention to discuss if I need to accept minorities in my surrounding or right next to me. I am sure this is no problem for any one of us. This was just in order to try to find out the different ways of airlines to handle it and the experiences of others either on board or on the ground after a written complaint.

i do understand your point, but still , i am quite positive if you had talked to the guy next to you things would have turned out differently.

It was wrong to write 'next time think' , i rather sould have wrote


next time talk: DALelite

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 19): referring to a fat guy as a large guy or a big guy would have been a nicer way of discussing this problem.

Oh yes, let's not be mean. Let's all be nice.  

Sorry, but if a 350lb person takes up half of my seat, I'm going to call him "that fat guy."

Quoting DALelite (Reply 21): i do understand your point, but still , i am quite positive if you had talked to the guy next to you things would have turned out differently.

I would certainly have TALKED to him. BUT: What should he do ? There where no empty seats. The only one that could have changed the situation in this case would have been a flight attendant. In this case: what do you want me to "talk" to him ? "Hey ! Why are you so fat ?" or "You are taking my place, please go away !". The only thing I had reached would have been to offend him. And in a way I felt that he knows anyway that I am not comfortable and that he would of course have changed the situation by himself anyway if he had the chance. So why making it worse ? I had to pass almost 10 hours next to him.

Airlines would eventually need to look at this a bit seriously specially when the % of Fat people on this earth is growing specially in the developed world . I guess the entire issue opens the same old question again of wether to charge more or not ? IMO is that there should be economy plus seating which should be used for People who are over a certain weight but then again would you need to mention your weight and size when you buy a ticket ? It doesnt seem right to me !! I guess that they would have to do something about it eventually and its better done sooner rather then later . If I was a fat or say BIG guy ( 350 pounds isnt say big boned ) i'd definately fly with more dignity if i could pay 15% more and fly economy plus , maybe some airlines with the newer jets who offer Eco plus can give the Bigger folks a special discount for upgrading to eco plus !!

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 18): This was just in order to try to find out the different ways of airlines to handle it and the experiences of others either on board or on the ground after a written complaint.

This is what I wrote to LH:

Greetings,

I am writing you today to express the displeasure and discomfort I experienced on a recent Lufthansa flight.

On 25 September 2003 I flew on flight LH430 from Frankfurt to Chicago in seat 47K. Seated beside me was a very wide man. Due to the massive girth of this person I was unable to use a significant portion of my seat. In addition to this, I was completely unable to access any of the armrest mounted service or entertainment controls due to his body engulfing the space adjacent to and well beyond the entire armrest. This also precluded my ability to view most of the ceiling mounted video monitor, rendering me incapable of adequately viewing the mandatory safety information or in-flight entertainment. Combining all of the aforementioned concerns with spending over ten hours pressed against this foul smelling, heat emanating mass made for a truly grotesque traveling experience.

Since I was unable to utilize a significant portion of the services I paid for, I would greatly appreciate some form of compensation for this loss. I look forward to your timely response to this matter.

Respectfully,

Tod

...and in return I received 3000 LH miles.
Fair compensation, I dunno, but life goes on and it'll happen again   

Tod

you should have hit the bottle in such a long flight and fell asleep next to a nice, spongy human pillow.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on....

If you are trying to say that it is just a matter of prejudice, then that's your view, but not reality.

With members of my family in that size class, I don't feel they should be protected from scrutiny or criticism. I wish that my aunt would get more criticism for her size, frankly, because she is not going to live a lot longer at her size. We are trying to get her to get surgery to do something about it, but she's too easily accommodated by the world to think it worth it, despite her feet crippling under her, her severe asthma, etc.

A great friend of mine was almost that big and two years hence got the surgery. He's now fitter than me and happy, with so much more energy and vitality. He's learned what it's like for women to hit on him, to be able to play with his kids, etc. He used to think that being fat was a protected state, but now he's wiser and writing a screenplay about his experiences. I'll suggest he add the seat spillover to his story if possible.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 26): you should have hit the bottle in such a long flight and fell asleep next to a nice, spongy human pillow.

                 

I will keep this in mind for the next time - although my pillow smells a lot nicer !

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23): Hey ! Why are you so fat ?" or "You are taking my place, please go away !".

shure that would have offended him. why not saying, ey , you are big, would you please put your arm closer towards you so i also can use the armrest.
and i am positive that that would've made your trip much more pleasant.
also, getting to know someone more helps overcoming grips.

DALelite

Well MOL and ryanair need to wake up to fell the serious damage that is being caused to the seats and attachments etc through more then usual wear and tear through Fat people sitting on them and leaning etc etc and they really need to start to do something about it !! heck may be to save cost they'll allow fat people check Ins   ( just a joke )

Quoting DALelite (Reply 29): and i am positive that that would've made your trip much more pleasant. also, getting to know someone more helps overcoming grips.

Very true. I'm sure that most large people are aware in the situation, and that's easily overcome. Ultimately if they invade your space in 12E, you have to invade theirs, so that's cool.

What is annoying is that this bloke's mate was sitting across the aisle for a reason, so obviously neither gave a shit about who was next to fat-guy.

That sucks.

Come to think of it wouldnt it be wiser to pair the Fat guys together ?? Atleast a SEAT TERRITORY abiding customer doesnt have to pay for it !!

Quoting Tod (Reply 25): This is what I wrote to LH:

Thanks, I think I will try something like that. I am sure they are aware of that problem and hopefully they have a good idea one day to solve it. And this will only happen if people complain about it.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on.... Ey, why didn't you talk to this fat guy next to you. I am shure that you could've made some arragements about armrest, getting up and so on. next time think!

I disagree completely. Hippies, Gays, Women, Men - all sit in their respective seats. However, when a overweight person spills over into your seat, something you paid a lot for, then it really is your business. I would definitely go to the FA and tell her to resolve the problem. If she/he didn't care and didn't do anything about it, I would most definitely give them a hard time. I'm, sorry but I paid for the seat on this flight. And I'm not going to tolerate some other guy spilling into it and making my flight hell. It's the overweight individuals responsibility to think ahead, and if he takes up more than one seat, he has to do something about it, and not make other people suffer. Or better yet, just start jogging daily. After hearing all the amazing stories from our dear a.net members and how they got rid of hundreds of lbs, it proves that it can be done. Unfortunately that's already not my business. Bottom line is don't make other people suffer.

Aeroflot777

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 19): referring to a fat guy as a large guy or a big guy would have been a nicer way of discussing this problem. Usually, once on the plane, the F/A try to relocate the big people to bulkhead seats or rows with few empty seats. CO does that all the time and did it this morning with a very tall guy. It depends on the airline. European carriers don't give a crap.

true, i have had mixed experiences myself, its especially hard when you are big enough to need your own entire seat and having to share with even bigger fellow sitting next to you.

On united I ended up sitting next to a very big person from LHR to SFO, it was cramped so during push back I got up pretending to go to lav and went up to an F/A who rudely shrugged it off (like WTF you want me to do!) so I decided not to pursue it further as I didn't want to embarass the guy by making a scene.

Luckily during the flight we started talking and had some great conversation. He turned out to be great company for the long flight. So it wasnt so bad.

On the other hand recently on my Asiana flight I ended up next to a big woman, shortly after push back the F/A came around and talked to her in a very polite and caring way (though in korean so I couldnt understand but she seemed very polite) the F/A later took her to the empty row in front of us while taxy.

So it does depend on the airline and I guess empty seats too.

How about this?

If you're very fat, gay, you smell and you're a hippy or a Republican, a Conservative or you've got a criminal record, you go in the HOLD.

Everybody else gets a seat up top.

Perfect solution  

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9): I've had this before and tolerated it - it was truly awful. after that, I swore I'd never sit quietly like that again.

Me too. I had a window seat with an empty aisle right up to the time the door should have closed. My obese seatmate waited until the very last moment to board, and I was trapped all the way from DTW-DFW. On an F100 no less. I complained to AA and got a $500 voucher; not too shabby!   

Quoting Acjflyer (Reply 20): If I am being charged $50 for being a few pounds overweight when it comes to luggage then the man that carries "extra baggage" whether it be on himself or in his luggage should also have to pay.

Some airlines charge for two seats: Southwest Airlines "Customer of Size Q&A"
I say bravo to WN.   

AA has a similar policy, but I think they are not diligent about enforcement:
American Airlines Policy on Obese Customers

Does anyone know policies at other carriers?

In dealing with an obese person sitting next to you, assuming there were other available coach seats, then either as bording ended or once the flight got to cruising level, upon complaint to them, the f/a('s) should have allowed you or the other person to move or be moved to a more comfortable seat location.
Unfortunately, as many airlines because of security, the use of smaller and narrowbody aircraft even on long flights, competition for fares and not wanting to confront persons of size as fear losing them and their friends, family or co-workers as customers, you may be the loser.
One argument I would use is that on a longer flight, your discomfort and inability to be able to move could encourage DVT or other medical problems or endanger your safety in case of an emergency or turbulence problem.

Quoting Tod (Reply 25): Combining all of the aforementioned concerns with spending over ten hours pressed against this foul smelling, heat emanating mass made for a truly grotesque traveling experience.

  

Love it!!

Quoting N231YE (Reply 3): Obviously, the airline wasn't WN, who makes large passengers pay for 2 seats instead of just their own (if they in-fact still do that).

That's not just WN, but other airlines.

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1): Do i have to accept the white guy next to me? Do i have to accept those hippies next to me? Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me? And the list could go on....

They're not a safety isssue. A fat guy blocking your aisle and cramming you into the wall or the other seat is bad news if the plane has to make an emergency landing.

This have not happened to me but I have observed it several times. I do not care about the size of people but if I pay for one seat I would also expect to receive one seat and not 75% of a seat. I believe this is a very fair objection and that all airlines will need to start to address this issue when we every day can hear on our TV,s that the population just is getting fatter and fatter.

And here I kindly asked the Mods to Chuck this thread in the garbage on the grounds that we would see all the THIN people using all the insulting language they can to make others feel bad...Once again you all need to leave the playground mentality on the playground.....

Good Grief!!!

Access-Air

Why is it the airline's fault that fat people fly? As long as safety regulations are followed, there isn't a whole lot the airlines can do. Just from the responses above, you can see that people are very sensitive about a person's weight. I would have said something, especially on a flight that long with some fat guy spilling over into my seat...it would almost be like people smoking on planes again.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 19): eferring to a fat guy as a large guy or a big guy would have been a nicer way of discussing this problem

Or we could refer to this guy as a "person of size". Isn't that how WN refers to people with this uh, problem.

It wasn't too awful long ago that a pax on DL sued DL for recovery of their loss due to a large person sitting next to him. He claimed that the "person of size" took up 20% of his seat, so he wanted 20% of his airfare back. I think it was some small amount as it was a relatively short flight (ORD-CVG, maybe?).

The only thing worse than this is to be seated in the middle between TWO persons of size. Once on UA (ORD-IAH) I was in a 737 that had one of the AC Packs Inop and I was put in a middle seat between two xtra large football player types that were wearing shorts, wife beaters and sandals. Talk about odor!

No offense to "large" people, but if you are twice over the FAA standard passenger weight you ARE a danger to EVERY passenger on board the aircraft. It is not just a personal space issue. If you "Spill over" into my seat and the flight attendant does nothing, I will demand a free ticket. (this is as a former flight attendant sup.). If you weigh twice the standard weight, It is your duty to buy a second seat to make sure your excess weight is distributed according to weight & balance formulas.


ATCT

The fat guy promised that he would go on a diet so enough of this fat guy bashing.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 46): enough of this fat guy bashing.

I am plainly bringing up a safety factor as a pilot and person who has dealt with the problem.

Personally, if there is another seat on the aircraft with some space, like a bulkhead or two seats by themselves, etc, Then I always asked the larger person if they would like more room at the said location. Ive never had a time where they wouldnt be more than happy to get more room. (and If I did, id ask the other person if theyd like the more room).

ATCT

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 22): if a 350lb person takes up half of my seat, I'm going to call him "that fat guy."

I would laugh myself into a coma if his legal name was Peter Griffin too   

Have you ever noticed most obese people drive with one arm out the window? It doesn't matter if it's 10 degrees or 110 degrees. Could it possibly be that their 4 ft wide body doesn't fit in the 2 ft wide drivers seat? I think the auto companies should invent an expando door so these poor people don't get hypothermia or heat stroke. Chortle, chortle!!!

[Edited 2006-10-13 03:01:26]

I had the same thing happen to me on an AA flight DFW-LAS. The guy had to be Michael Moore's twin. As if him looking like Mr. Conspiracy Theorist himself was not bad enough, he also weighed in at about 350 plus. He smelled like a sack of shook arseholes to boot. The 2hr 20 min flight felt like a month of Sundays.
HC

Quoting Jetdeltamsy (Reply 6): If Lardass can't fit into one seat, he needs to buy two seats.

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 17): The blubber can't do it,

Quoting Halls120 (Reply 22): Sorry, but if a 350lb person takes up half of my seat, I'm going to call him "that fat guy."

Some of you really need to grow up!!!