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virgin747
Posts: 290
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 1999 12:20 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:39 am

I remember a Cessna 208 that crashed.... Well they found the plane overweight... but airline said it followed all the numbers.... the problem was found in the passengers... Fishermen.... all of them over the magic number used in calculating weight and balance.... So I remember the authorities recommending the weight of a average person be brought up....

Out of curiosity... do they have these problems only in America/Europe?
 
dz09
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:41 am

Quoting Virgin747 (Reply 52):
do they have these problems only in America/Europe?

I think they have this problem in Ethiopia where 90% of the population is overweight!
 
flybyguy
Posts: 1419
Joined: Sun Jun 27, 2004 12:52 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:47 am

I've always been a staunch advocate for passenger comfort in Economy Class. One of the most important parts of being comfortable in Economy Class is accommodating taller than average or wider than average passengers.

When space is available certainly taller people should get exit rows and bulkheads over elite frequent fliers simply as a matter of human decency and courtesy. Wider people however should be required to buy two seats for their own comfort as well as for the comfort of passengers around them. DVT can become an issue if the seat is too tight a fit... DVT can also be a problem for neighboring passengers if their lateral space is restricted by a heavier person. Certainly, as a courtesy, airlines can allocate discounts for a secondary seat if a more rotund individual requires one.

This all being said I think buying a second seat shouldn't be a problem for larger passengers because it is within their power to loose weight whereas a taller person cannot chop himself in two to get a more agreeable fit. I see such a compromise as fair and just across the board.
"Are you a pretender... or a thoroughbred?!" - Professor Matt Miller
 
andrewuber
Posts: 2142
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:45 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 10:59 am

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1):
Do i have to accept the white guy next to me?
Do i have to accept those hippies next to me?
Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me?
And the list could go on....

I was going to rip you a new one over these four lines of sheer stupidity, but it seems you've been flamed enough in this thread.

What's funny is that you claim to be from the "Cultural Center of Switzerland" yet you will make a comment like that.

Listing "Myself" as a hobby won't get you many kudos either...  sarcastic 
I'd rather shoot BAD_MOTIVE
 
thegooddoctor
Posts: 418
Joined: Thu Nov 10, 2005 8:12 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:06 am

While I understand how difficult being a "person of size" must be (or at least I can imagine), this issue has nothing to do with 'fat-bashing'.

This is business. You pay for a product to which you are assured a minimum level of service. You are paying for a seat (a full seat) in which you should have reasonable human needs are met (ie. you have access to the lavatory).

Unfortunately this problem comes down to the flight crew - if they tell you tough cookies, you can't do anything else without risking a disturbance to the flight. If you are insistant with any reasonable flight crew member, they will accomodate when possible (these are the FA's that actually see and take pride in the customer service functions of their job - probably at least 50%).
The GoodDoctor
 
martinairyyz
Posts: 1188
Joined: Fri Nov 28, 2003 6:42 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:09 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 53):
Quoting Virgin747 (Reply 52):
I think they have this problem in Ethiopia where 90% of the population is overweight!

HUH? Are you well? Do you know even where Ethiopia is? They have one of the least overweight pops in the world, a study conducted just 10 months ago showed that 2.5% of the population were overweight, and they were mostly all white people. There is a difference between what you consider African American and what a real African is. The African Americans come from Jamaica and the Indies, and then they get hooked on US junk food.... that is not what the whole world is like, unless USA is your whole world!

On another note, they should charge fat people by the kilo if they are visibly fat (not plump but FAT) Also set the regular measuring max at 100kg and then it's $10/kilo........ that way I won't have to pay for their larger fuel burn!
Chelsea Football Club supporter.
 
baron95
Posts: 1106
Joined: Thu May 25, 2006 10:19 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:10 am

The solution to this problem, I am reluctant to say is regulation. It is actually a safety concern to have a passanger that does not fit comfortably within the seat provided.

A very large person is likely to block an overwing emergency exit during a fire evacuation, just as much as he/she invade your space. If that person passed out during an accident or due to smoke, he/she would make it very difficult for you to climb over him/her to the aisle to escape. The fact that that person reduces your personal space and puts "presure" from the sides into your thighs can greatly increase the chances of deep vein trombosis on a very long flight. The list goes on.

The FAA and other agencies should require that passangers must fit comfortably in withing the normal space of the seat provided.

Simple as that - problem solved.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
dz09
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:16 am

Relax man. Did you see the exclamation point at the end of the sentence? I was being sarcastic. I know where Ethiopia is and I don't need any lectures from you.
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:25 am

Quoting Virgin747 (Reply 52):
I remember a Cessna 208 that crashed.... Well they found the plane overweight... but airline said it followed all the numbers.... the problem was found in the passengers... Fishermen.... all of them over the magic number used in calculating weight and balance.... So I remember the authorities recommending the weight of a average person be brought up....

Sounds very similar to this incident:
Obese passengers could have caused plane crash which did indeed lead to the FAA recommending that the average passenger weight estimate be increased when doing weight & balance calculations. It was an Air Midwest Beech 1900D...lost pitch control on takeoff and crashed immediately. The NTSB accident report is here: http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2004/AAR0401.pdf
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5374
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:26 am

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 61):
Mr. or Mr. fatass can be on the other hand a very convenient cushion in case of an accident!

 butthead   butthead   butthead   butthead   butthead   butthead 

fluffy as an airbag.....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
mkirch72
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:00 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:31 am

Quoting Aerokiwi (Reply 9):
His blubber is still there

Nice - very adult.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 11):
And this was certainly not written in order to discriminate those people that love eating a bit more than others !

Sure - of course not. See all these comments and tell me that with a straight face.

Quoting Avianca (Reply 13):
Chiguire, you are a bad boy if you didnt gave him a part of your meal

Grow up.

Quoting RIXrat (Reply 17):
We're all trying to be politically correct......The blubber can't do it, no matter how hard he tries because he/she is already 1/3 into my seat.

The FA, looking at the whole comical procedure, winks at me and moves me to C class where there are open seats. I have won and fat blubber has won, because now he has two seats of his own.

Doesn't sound like you're trying to be politically correct when you refer to the overweight passenger as "the fat blubber has won".

Quoting MainMAN (Reply 31):
What is annoying is that this bloke's mate was sitting across the aisle for a reason, so obviously neither gave a shit about who was next to fat-guy.

Don't blame them - blame the airlines and their policies.

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 34):
It's the overweight individuals responsibility to think ahead, and if he takes up more than one seat, he has to do something about it, and not make other people suffer

Wrong. It's the airlines responsibility to either create more comfortable seats, or enforce a policy of banning overweight passengers. Don't blame the passengers - blame the airlines.

Quoting ATCT (Reply 45):
No offense to "large" people,

Oh no -- no offense taken by the "blubber", "lardass".

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 49):
I think the auto companies should invent an expando door so these poor people don't get hypothermia or heat stroke. Chortle, chortle!!!

Ha ha. Oh my god -- you MUST be a perfect human being. How clever of you to make fun of people like that. Does this make you feel better about yourself? I hope so.

Quoting Thegooddoctor (Reply 56):
this issue has nothing to do with 'fat-bashing'.

See above. Then tell me that again with a straight face.


First of all - yes many people are overweight because of over eating. But don't make a summary judgement about someone. Regardless of how they got to that point, it is certainly not easy to lose weight. Someone said to get the surgery? You forget that 40 million Americans (most of whom I guarantee fly coach) have no medical insurance. Pay for two seats? I'm sorry but a lot of people can barely afford one.

You really think overweight people aren't horribly aware of their situation? Do you think they relish the idea of making someone else uncomfortable? Did you think that, maybe the reason he sat on the aisle seat was so that he could spread out into the aisle instead of even more on the other passenger?

Bottom line is that you should not blame the overweight passenger. You should blame the airlines for making inadequate, uncomfortable seats (in terms of both width and pitch). What is the other solution? Ban overweight people from airline travel. You might as well do it, because not everyone can afford two seats. So just ban them to begin with.

It's obvious by the comments above what most of you truly think anyways.
 
dz09
Posts: 433
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:20 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:37 am

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 57):
HUH? Are you well? Do you know even where Ethiopia is? They have one of the least overweight pops in the world, a study conducted just 10 months ago showed that 2.5% of the population were overweight, and they were mostly all white people. There is a difference between what you consider African American and what a real African is. The African Americans come from Jamaica and the Indies, and then they get hooked on US junk food.... that is not what the whole world is like, unless USA is your whole world!

On another note, they should charge fat people by the kilo if they are visibly fat (not plump but FAT) Also set the regular measuring max at 100kg and then it's $10/kilo........ that way I won't have to pay for their larger fuel burn!

Next time you fly, I'm going to make sure my good friend tiny bubba is sitting next to you and you can then call him stupid american and tell him he must pay $10/kilo because he is big-boned.
 
B707Stu
Posts: 893
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2005 4:15 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:43 am

It's not just fat people that cause this problem. I had a 'muscle head' next to me on a DL (was Song) LAX-JFK red-eye. His arms overhung my seat to the point they were just about in my lap... I flew in a verticle angle to the window in the most uncomfortable 5 1/2 hour flight I've ever had. The flight was full so there was no moving. The only little revenge I had was I had my iPod and at one point he asked me to lower it because it was disturbing him - I guess he could hear my music from the headset? Anyway, he was annoyed I was disturbing his sleep. Needless to say I couldn't sleep because he was hangin over my seat... so, I did what any nice person would do. I turned my light on, read a crinkly magazine and kept my ear phones on... I must confess, it worked, within 5 minutes he was leaning on the person in the aisle... Big grin
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 64):
Bottom line is that you should not blame the overweight passenger. You should blame the airlines for making inadequate, uncomfortable seats (in terms of both width and pitch). .

Totally agree , you cannot blame the Overweight passenger as technically he is doing nothing wrong according to the airlines policy however it is the moral obligation of the airline to vouch for you and him in an event where such a situation arises !!

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 64):
What is the other solution? Ban overweight people from airline travel. You might as well do it, because not everyone can afford two seats. So just ban them to begin with.

I know you are being sarcastic but here are few solutions that i think can be logically acceptable for this problem ( unfortunately obesity all ready is a major hazard in US and other parts of the developed and developing world) -

1) The airlines get more responsible and if the passenger is grossly overweight then upgrade him to Economy Plus style seating if available and either take the Loss associated by offering eco plus at eco price and take the goodwill and loyalty of the not only the overweight passenger but also those who would surround him , or share the minimum possible cost for the upgrade with the passenger ( say if the ticket is 300 dollars then charge 20-30 $ extra) or trade off with other things such as make him check in one less bag or something of that sort .

2) Increase Pitch and seat width throughout the spectrum of the economy in light of the growing size of the average passenger !!

3) Club Overweight passengers together if there is empty space available like letting 2 overweight passengers sit on 3 seats or letting them sit near the exit seats where going to the lavatories is a bit easier .


I'd also like to see Fed. and govt stepping in and offering carrot insentives to those airlines who provide support for the overweight passengers by adjusting them in eco plus type arrangements !

[Edited 2006-10-13 04:53:53]
 
buck3y3nut
Posts: 825
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:38 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:52 am

ok. this isn't that bad. Listen to this...

On my flight back from AMS - DTW (when I was 15).
I had requested aisle seats throughout my itinerary and I was assured at DEL that I already have aisles. anyhow, the flight from AMS to DTW was a DC-10 or 11 (not sure), it was a tri-jet. The config. was 2-5-2. So I came down to my seat and realized that I had a middle seat. So I just sat in the aisle seat waiting to see if anyone showed up. The flight was supposedly full and slowly the middle seats got full. There were 2 seats left in our row. The one I was supposed to be sitting in and the one I was already sitting in. To my dismay, they were all Indians. The last one came (also an Indian) and demanded his aisle seat. I gave it up and went to my middle seat. Oh man, it was crazy. The guys sitting left and right of me had the worst B. O. problem ever. I thought, ok, let the plane takeoff and I will talk to the FA. After takeoff, I went and asked her to just come and smell the general area where I was sitting at. She just walked by the area and came back. She's like, "whoa, I can feel your pain right now". "Unfortunately the flight is full and I cannot change your seats; however if you want, I can give you extra earplugs that you may utilize to block off the odor"
I was like, "WHAT???"
In the end, by the time we got to DTW, the entire back Y cabin stunk of B. O.
and by the time I got home, I had fallen sick due to the smell.

so, next time, 'Do I have to accept the smelly indian sitting next to me'?

**NOTE**
You can flame me all you want; however, I myself am an Indian. In no way did I mean offense to any desi here in teh forums; just shared my dreadful story on NWA.  Smile If you are in any way offended, please accept my humblest apologies...
 
access-air
Posts: 1577
Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2000 5:30 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 11:54 am

Its kinda funny......EVERY stinking single one of us is PC about offending different races other than our own or sexual orientations or MUSLIMS......but it seems that its open season on "Fat" People....

With some of us "Fat" people its genetic....something that is passed down from parents...sort of like some people have the trait of being a**holes, a common trait being passed down by their parents.

As for charging Mr. Fatty extra, should we also charge Mrs. Skinny for the many overweight carry-ons that she brings on after a day of shopping in NYC with the Likes of Muffy and Babsy?

Until ANY of you know what its like to be on the "Fat" end of the fence with some mealy mouthed little twit complaining because he "thinks" you are taking up his personal space, then you will all know just how bad it makes those of us who are Fat feel.....Especially when an airline official comes up to you and treats you like you like a peice of trash..

Access-Air
Remember, Wherever you go, there you are!!!!
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 64):
Bottom line is that you should not blame the overweight passenger. You should blame the airlines for making inadequate, uncomfortable seats (in terms of both width and pitch). What is the other solution? Ban overweight people from airline travel. You might as well do it, because not everyone can afford two seats. So just ban them to begin with.

I'll resist the temptation to debate you on your PC defense of fat people and stick to the topic, which is fat people on airplanes. I agree with you here: either the person who needs two seats pays for it, or they don't fly.

There is no justification for one person to infringe upon the rights of another. If a person it too large to fit in the space provided, they DO NOT have the right to crush me against the wall. And the blame does not lie with the airlines. They are in no way obligated to provide oversize seats, which would raise costs, just because some people don't fit. If the cost of airline tickets would rise in order to accommodate oversized people, that impacts me and the majority of people unfairly. The responsibility for a person's weight lies with the individual.
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
FlyDeltaJets87
Posts: 4479
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 3:51 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 64):
Don't blame them - blame the airlines and their policies.

This is about one step above blaming gun manufacturers instead of murderers for murder. Sure airlines do need a better policy regarding customers of size(and they need to enforce it), but ulimately it is the job of Shamoo to lose those pounds. The "it's hard to lose weight" argument doesn't cut it. Is it hard? Yes. But it can be done and thus there's no excuse for 90+% of the flying public who can't fit their ass into an airline seat.

Quoting Mkirch72 (Reply 64):
You really think overweight people aren't horribly aware of their situation? Do you think they relish the idea of making someone else uncomfortable? Did you think that, maybe the reason he sat on the aisle seat was so that he could spread out into the aisle instead of even more on the other passenger?

I really don't care how they "feel about it". How they "feel about it" doesn't make me any more comfortable when being pressed against the window by Changa the Silverback Gorilla.
"Let's Roll"- Todd Beamer, United Airlines Flight 93, Sept. 11, 2001
 
pilotdude09
Posts: 1335
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 12:35 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:06 pm

LOL, this would have to be one of the funniest threads i have read on Anet in a long time!!!, im not exactly small but not large either, however people who are that large should make an effort to loose weight.
The funny thing about this thread is all the fat bashing is comming from the most obese country in the world!! Wink
Qantas, Still calling Australia Home.........
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:09 pm

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 71):
but ulimately it is the job of Shamoo to lose those pounds.

Although it is funny  Smile but lets be a little more respectful as obesity is a a major health concern which many countries are spending millions and millions to tackle and those people who are obese are SUFFERING the consequences wether they like it or not !! A little respect shouldnt hurt !
 
emiratesa345
Posts: 2049
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 10:11 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:16 pm

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 44):
The only thing worse than this is to be seated in the middle between TWO persons of size. Once on UA (ORD-IAH) I was in a 737 that had one of the AC Packs Inop and I was put in a middle seat between two xtra large football player types that were wearing shorts, wife beaters and sandals. Talk about odor!

In my opinion, you should make the best of a situation. Remember it could always be worse.

In this case, you should have asked for an autograph! haha

Mark Big grin
You and I were meant to fly, Air Canada!
 
david21487
Posts: 166
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 10:35 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:16 pm

I sat next to a person of size on a CVG-CMH flight on a CRJ. It wasn't a very dramatic situation, but the armrest between us wouldn't lower which was very annoying and I was in an exit row with no armrest on the other side of me either, and it would have been nice to have had at least one. It was only a 25 minute flight though and I was flying on DL company business so the airline paid for my seat anyway.
-- Step! Jump! Slide! --
 
aa757first
Posts: 3140
Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2003 11:40 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:17 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 67):
1) The airlines get more responsible and if the passenger is grossly overweight then upgrade him to Economy Plus style seating if available and either take the Loss associated by offering eco plus at eco price and take the goodwill and loyalty of the not only the overweight passenger but also those who would surround him , or share the minimum possible cost for the upgrade with the passenger

So, I'm a CSR with one open "Economy Plus" (which doesn't exist in the form you're speaking of) and I see three eligible upgrades.

1) The traveller with a frequent flier account that paid $506.00 for coach seat.
2) The business traveller that flies 50,000 miles a year with my airline and could easily take tens of thousands of dollars out the door.
3) The overweight man that paid $97.00 for his ticket and doesn't have a frequent flier account.

How can you justify upgrading number three over numbers one and two?

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 67):

2) Increase Pitch and seat width throughout the spectrum of the economy in light of the growing size of the average passenger !!

Okay, so you and another poster are saying some people can't afford two seats as you would like airlines to remove capacity, leading to higher prices. Supply and demand. Airline seats aren't totally comfortable for me and I know I'm very skinny, but my legs fit and so does my body. I'd rather keep the current seating arrangement and pay $10.00 for better service than to increase the dimensions of the seat.

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 67):

3) Club Overweight passengers together if there is empty space available like letting 2 overweight passengers sit on 3 seats or letting them sit near the exit seats where going to the lavatories is a bit easier .

Oh, so a fat people section? You know that people would be very offended by that. You would like to split up a family?

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 69):

Until ANY of you know what its like to be on the "Fat" end of the fence with some mealy mouthed little twit complaining because he "thinks" you are taking up his personal space, then you will all know just how bad it makes those of us who are Fat feel.....Especially when an airline official comes up to you and treats you like you like a peice of trash..

"Thinks"? I paid money for the space between two armrests. If someone else's body is taking up that space, then I know my personal space is being infringed.

Just as an example, US Airways from PHL to MCO a while back. Two very large women were in the middle seat and and the asile seat. The woman in the asile seat sat with her body shoved into the side of the aircraft - her back was at an angle for a two hour flight. Does anyone think that's alright or acceptable?

I agree that airline seats are too narrow. But that's just the way things. Currently, an obese person can purchase two Economy seats, one First Class seat or not travel by air.

AAndrew
 
TeamAmerica
Posts: 1540
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 3:38 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:18 pm

Quoting Pilotdude09 (Reply 72):
The funny thing about this thread is all the fat bashing is comming from the most obese country in the world!!

Fattest in the developed world, perhaps, but Pacific Islanders are world's fattest

Obesity is becoming a worldwide problem, with fat people now outnumbering starving people. The USA is far from alone in this growing problem.  stretch 
Failure is not an option; it's an outcome.
 
bringiton
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:24 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:24 pm

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 76):
So, I'm a CSR with one open "Economy Plus" (which doesn't exist in the form you're speaking of) and I see three eligible upgrades.

1) The traveller with a frequent flier account that paid $506.00 for coach seat.
2) The business traveller that flies 50,000 miles a year with my airline and could easily take tens of thousands of dollars out the door.
3) The overweight man that paid $97.00 for his ticket and doesn't have a frequent flier account.

How can you justify upgrading number three over numbers one and two?

I understand the Pain , it is a catch 22 and a very very tough situation indeed . There may be times where there is a eco plus ( given such a class exists) seat is free then it would be much simpler to bump up the overweight customer , in some cases rearranging may be the best option and in some cases the airline might not be able to do anything !!

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 76):
Okay, so you and another poster are saying some people can't afford two seats as you would like airlines to remove capacity, leading to higher prices. Supply and demand. Airline seats aren't totally comfortable for me and I know I'm very skinny, but my legs fit and so does my body. I'd rather keep the current seating arrangement and pay $10.00 for better service than to increase the dimensions of the seat.

Not saying that they should merely laying out options that I could think off !!

Quoting Aa757first (Reply 76):
Oh, so a fat people section? You know that people would be very offended by that. You would like to split up a family?

If it means that the overweight person and his surroundings are more comfortable then i can think about doing it .
 
AA300B
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2004 8:00 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:45 pm

Last year I had one of my worst flying experiences,
after an 11 hour delay on christmas day flying LACSA from
SJO to GYE (Guayaquil,Ecuador) I found an extremely obese woman
sitting on the window seat next to my seat... I was literally pushed
to the other seat next to me and she even took the armrest away,
and used half of my seat... definatley not a good experience...
E145, E170, E190, A310, A300, A319, A320, A321, A330, A340, A380, 717 727, 737, 747, 757, 767, 777, 77W, 787
 
lincoln
Posts: 3133
Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:22 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:59 pm

Quoting Tangowhisky (Reply 7):
Second, airlines are passing the buck and letting their passengers deal with the issue. He has a valid point and I am sure if you were in that situations you would not be all smiley and happy.

Most US Airlines (specifically CO and WN) have provisions in their contracts of carriage requiring "Customers of Size" to purchase a 2nd seat if, among other criteria, the armrest can't be completely lowered. (In both cases, it's the lowest fare available at the time ticket was purchased and refunded if the flight is not completely sold out, IIRC).

As long as the airlines are enforcing this policy this seems fare to me -- if there's empty space on the aircraft the large customer isn't charged, and if the flight is full no ones space is invaded (the "large" customer who has two seats or the "not-so-large" customer)

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 26):
you should have hit the bottle in such a long flight and fell asleep next to a nice, spongy human pillow.

You know, maybe it's because I'm a anti-social skinny guy but people falling asleep on me is orders of magnatude more rude/annoying than a large passenger next to me. The large passenger is, at least, not in complete control of the condition. The person who falls asleep on me is intentionally invading my space. (Now if it were an attractive female +/-5 years of my age, I would make an exception, but it's never happened.)

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 58):
The solution to this problem, I am reluctant to say is regulation. It is actually a safety concern to have a passanger that does not fit comfortably within the seat provided.

Regulation to the extent of airlines enforcing policies, yes (Contract of Carriage -> Two seats; Exit Row -> Must not impede other's exit in the event of an emergency) regulation in the extent of new laws or mandates, no.

Lincoln
CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
 
DIA
Posts: 3053
Joined: Sun Jan 28, 2001 2:24 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting DALelite (Reply 21):
i do understand your point, but still , i am quite positive if you had talked to the guy next to you things would have turned out differently.

This guy's obesity problem does not go away with a polite, "You are extremely fat and you are pouring into my seat, please move your arm and suck your fat away and get out of my space."  Silly

I think the airline was wrong to put Chiguire in this position in the first place...shame on them.
Ding! You are now free to keep supporting Frontier.
 
robsawatsky
Posts: 477
Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:07 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:32 pm

Quoting DIA (Reply 81):



Quoting DIA (Reply 81):
Quoting DALelite (Reply 21):
i do understand your point, but still , i am quite positive if you had talked to the guy next to you things would have turned out differently.

This guy's obesity problem does not go away with a polite, "You are extremely fat and you are pouring into my seat, please move your arm and suck your fat away and get out of my space." Silly

Sure, he would have said I'm sorry and voluntarily deplaned.
 
rwsea
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:23 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:33 pm

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 69):
Its kinda funny......EVERY stinking single one of us is PC about offending different races other than our own or sexual orientations or MUSLIMS......but it seems that its open season on "Fat" People....

Being black or white isn't a choice. Being fat is.

Quoting Access-Air (Reply 69):
With some of us "Fat" people its genetic....something that is passed down from parents...sort of like some people have the trait of being a**holes, a common trait being passed down by their parents.

True to an extent, but not necessarily an excuse. I go to Europe all the time and see significantly fewer fat people than in the US. Why are people in the US, who by and large decend from Europeans, more "genetically" prone to being fat?

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 73):
Although it is funny but lets be a little more respectful as obesity is a a major health concern which many countries are spending millions and millions to tackle and those people who are obese are SUFFERING the consequences wether they like it or not !! A little respect shouldnt hurt !

I agree with your premise, but again, the obesity "epidemic" is self-inflicted. People just can't control themselves.

And look, I have no problem with people who choose to be fat - until it affects ME by taking up the space that I paid for. Same with smokers - smoke all you want, just don't make me inhale your carcinogens.
 
antares
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RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:42 pm

Just a thought. You could point out to the FA that you are unable to properly fasten the seat belt, or maintain the seat back upright, or adopt the brace position using two arms, since one is pinned under the gentleman beside you. (There is a risk here the FA will tell you to think of the obese passenger as additional protection, sort of like an air bag.)

But if you cannot do any of the above, the airline is in breach of the safety laws in much of the world, because I have seen people moved on Qantas, Cathay Pacific and British Airways flights for one of all the above reasons on 'safety grounds', including from or into premium cabins.

Reason. They are legally obliged not to operate the flight unless these essential safety conditiions are met in respect of every occupied seat. And you have drawn their attention to this.

Having established to the FA that you will (unfortunately) have to lodge an official complaint that your flight operated unsafely you are highly likely to get listened to with some respect and urgency.

And possibly marched off the flight. But then that gives you two reasons to sue, rather than one.

Antares
 
jasond
Posts: 648
Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 5:23 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:55 pm

My view simply is that airlines should ask heavier, larger people to pay more. Not just because of the inconveniance they cause others but surely there must also be an additional cost to the airline ultimatly (fuel weight calculation / optimisation). I did read that Qantas did do a study (but obviously never implemented in practice) where passengers would be weighed for the sole reason of delivering accurate weights to the crew to assist with fuel loads etc (with perhaps the indirect incentive for people to lose weight!!!). The reality is that very few people are overweight due to some medical cause. For most it is simply because of lifestyle. Out of them if you are happy with your weight then you have obviously made a lifestyle choice and are happy with it HOWEVER you need to be aware of the potential impacts of that lifestyle choice on others.
 
richm
Posts: 599
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 1:21 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:16 pm

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1):
Do i have to accept the white guy next to me?
Do i have to accept those hippies next to me?
Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me?
And the list could go on....

Ey, why didn't you talk to this fat guy next to you. I am shure that you
could've made some arragements about armrest, getting up and so on.

next time think!

DALelite

This is a ridiculous comparison. The difference is that the white guy, the hippies, and the gay people would not be causing any physical discomfort in this case.

If people are being made to physically suffer in some way, they should have every right to complain.
 
JPair
Posts: 33
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2005 6:36 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:43 pm

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 19):
European carriers don't give a crap.

Air France have special "fat" seats on their LR fleet, one or two seats on the aircraft are "fatter" to allow large PAX to fly in comfort.
 
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JohnKrist
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Posts: 1982
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RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:44 pm

Quoting DALelite (Reply 1):
Do i have to accept the white guy next to me?
Do i have to accept those hippies next to me?
Do i have to accept this gay couple next to me?
And the list could go on....

No, you do not have to accept a white gay hippie next to you if he is obese and infringes your space.

Quoting DZ09 (Reply 19):
European carriers don't give a crap.

Whoa, big generalization, I suppose you have been on every European carrier to make a statement like that.

Quoting FlyDeltaJets87 (Reply 16):
I think it's only fair that you give me 15% of what I paid for that seat



Quoting Acjflyer (Reply 20):
If a very overweight man is taking up some of my space suring the flight then he can pay for that portion he is using. (I accept cash, checks, and money orders. )

Hmm, what if you paid 0.99 euro for a flight on RyanAir or Easyjet for example?  Smile (and don't give me the crap about "for that price you are not entitled to complain)

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 57):
African Americans come from Jamaica and the Indies

They do? Gee, I must have been asleep in school, I always thought they came from Africa.

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 83):
Why are people in the US, who by and large decend from Europeans, more "genetically" prone to being fat?

They are not, of course, blame Ronald and the Colonel Big grin

BO=clean up or stay on the ground
Big=pay for 2 seats (unfair, maybe, comfortable, yes). We weigh our luggage, maybe it's about time we weigh our bodies too. Possibly already when we book, and you could always discuss whether the airlines should take the cost of the extra seat (which eventually ends up on everybodys ticket). Then it would be easy to calculate loads and pax well ahead of departure, instead like now when the problem is found at check in desks or on the plane itself.
Tall (like me)=reserve emergency exit rows and other with extra leg room etc for tall people.
5D Mark III, 7D, 17-40 F4 L, 70-200 F2.8 L IS II, Canon 50mm 1.4, Sigma 50mm 1.4 ART, Sigma 105mm 1.4 ART, EF 1.4x II, EF 2x III, SPEEDLITE 600EX-RT
 
DernierVirage
Posts: 222
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 3:55 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:15 pm

On the Air France web site, it is specified that their seats correspond to the following maximum passenger sizes::
- 135 cm in Tempo and Alizé,
- 200 cm in l´Espace Affaires and l´Espace Première.

It is also mentioned that if you exceed these sizes, then you may be refused boarding if the flight is full (and assuming you have not reserved a second seat, for which special rates are available).

Very interesting, but I am not sure how well publicised this is - you have to search on the website, and I do not ever recall being asked the question when I reserved a ticket.
 
ThePalauan
Posts: 158
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 9:56 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:19 pm

I feel for you, Chiguire.

I flew to Honolulu from Guam on CS a few years back and got stuck between one obese guy and the window. Probably the dumbest thing I admit about that was he was warmer than the blanket!  banghead 

One thing that helped was he got up frequently to use the bathroom and walk around and was gone for moments at a time. Oh how I cherished those moments of freedom.  Big grin

At first, he didn't looking so big but after he sat down, I guess he had to stop sucking in his gut and WOW. He could really hold up his stomach well.

Oh well... I don't mind the short hops with passengers of size but on flights over 3.5+ hours, it kinda starts getting to me much like someone taking their nails and running them down a chalkboard. Not something pleasant at all...  crowded 
You can take the boy out of the island, but not the island out of the boy!
 
vikinga346
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:45 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:31 pm

Quoting MartinairYYZ (Reply 57):
The African Americans come from Jamaica and the Indies, and then they get hooked on US junk food....

I don't want to beat a dead horse with a baseball bat, but that comment is just wrong and highly irrelevent to the topic of obese people flying on commercial airlines.

On a lighter note, I agree with msot of you that obese people should be forced to pay for two seats if they cannot fit into one. It is ridiculously embarassing and ruins the experience for the person sitting next to them - and that should simply not happen. I think charging per kilo is ridiculous however, because no matter how fat someone is, they're still gonna need either 2 or 3 seats depending on their individual circumstances. Charging them per kilo does not accomplish anything. If they want to fly, they pay for the fact that they are overweight and need two seats instead of one - period. Quite simple. Yes, some people are going to be offended, but people get offended over everything. You can't please everyone.

As for your case, chiguire - they should have simply moved you up to business class. If they had two open seats following the boarding process - there's no reason why they can't upgrade you. I've been on plenty of flights where all I've done is ASKED if I could be moved up and occasionally they let me. I try to always be the last one the plane so I see if there are any open biz class seats. DOesn't hurt to ask, does it? That's ridiculous that they didn't move you up.

Just my 2cents
...you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been and there you shall return
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 6:53 pm

Quoting TeamAmerica (Reply 37):
complained to AA and got a $500 voucher; not too shabby!

Right on AA! This is why they get my 60,000 miles a year.

Quoting Type-Rated (Reply 44):
Or we could refer to this guy as a "person of size".



Quoting Access-Air (Reply 69):
With some of us "Fat" people its genetic....something that is passed down from parents...sort of like some people have the trait of being a**holes, a common trait being passed down by their parents.

It sucks being American and having to be politicly correct. In most places in Latin America, it can be a friendly way to address friends, as "fatty, whitey, little blackie, skinny, etc.". Yes, it is informal, but ok among friends. I call my wife either shortey, little blackie, little brownie, (baixinha, negrinha ou moreninha, she's Brasilian), and calls me little fatty (gordinho, but I don't take up 130% of a seat.

I had a flight from hell and the FAs let me sleep in the aisle!!!! That was due to an EXTREME STINKER.

Lets petition the airlines to put a seat next to the carry luggage on size sample. Can you imagine the airlines directing the "gordos" to the seat then replying, we're sorry sir, (maam), but we are going to have to move you from the PAX deck to the cargo hold, there is no IFE and you don't need the crappy chicken we're serving today.
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
TGV
Posts: 722
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:37 pm

RE: Do I Have To Accept The Fat Man Next To Me?

Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:57 pm

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 89):
On the Air France web site, it is specified that their seats correspond to the following maximum passenger sizes::
- 135 cm in Tempo and Aliz�,
- 200 cm in l�Espace Affaires and l�Espace Premi�re.

This corresponds to the waist measurement ("tour de taille").

Quoting DernierVirage (Reply 89):
and I do not ever recall being asked the question when I reserved a ticket.

It is stated "If you need a second seat mention it when reserving”. The overweight problem is not yet such in Europe (this is unfortunately changing) that the question should be raised to every passenger.

Interestingly all this appears on the AF French site, but not on the US site. Does AF fear to be not politically correct by writing such "discriminating" things on their US site?

Back to the topic !
(Chiguire I feel for you, I hope I have not invaded you space during the CCS meeting Big grin).

I think that in such a situation it is useless to speak to the overweight person. Whatever his efforts (if only he does some), on a long flight, and especially a night flight, he will not be able to prevent parts of himself invading your (limited) space.
But you have not any special relationship with this person. The airline does.
So it is the airline which has to do something.

If there are free seats in Business the solution is easy. If not it is obviously another story, but a letter of complaint should be written.

If this happens frequently enough these letters hopefully could be an input when the airlines decide about the seat sizes. Just refer to the long discussions here some months ago about the 8 abreast versus 9 abreast on 787. It is the airlines that push for 9 abreast, while Boeing was initially advertising 8 abreast with higher comfort.
I will never fly again 777 with 3-4-3 config in Y

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