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airmailer
Topic Author
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Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:40 am

I didn't see this posted...
I didn't realize that they were ahead of last years pace:

Friday October 13, 2006
Boeing Commercial Airplanes is on a pace to exceed its record sales result of last year, when it booked net orders for 1,002 aircraft (ATWOnline, Jan. 5).

Through the first nine months of 2006, the manufacturer received orders for 736 aircraft, up from 643 in the year-ago period.

September sales were particularly strong, with orders for 175 aircraft comprising 118 737NGs, 28 747s, four 767s and 25 787s. In September 2005, Boeing sold 24 aircraft comprising two 737s, 15 777s and seven 787s.

http://atwonline.com/
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:49 am

As the year began, Boeing warned investors not to expect the same order totals to continue, as the industry couldn't sustain it.

Boeing was of course working under the theory that the sales would be again split about 50:50. But this year, it's more like 70:30. So even with a total market of "only" 1500 jets this year, Boeing could end up surpassing their total of last year, where the market was 2000+ jets.

I also wonder whether the slow sales of the A320 have anything to do with the A380 fiasco this year. Airlines losing faith in Airbus? What else could explain it? The A320 has matched or beaten the 737NG for the last few years, and now the 737NG is huge in comparison...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 5:53 am

Or it could be that Boeing is using some of the profits that they are getting from the widebodies ( look at the no. sold and delivered in the last 3 years) to make the 737NG more price competitive in addition to the various other cost cutting and time saving measures they have implemented over the years ! The weaker dollar also plays a role here IMO !!
 
dhefty
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 6:54 am

An interesting corollary is the value of deliveries to date in 2006. Boeing has apparently surpassed Airbus in the value category even though they lag in numbers (320 to 295). The reason? - higher valued wide-bodies, specifically the resurgence of 777 and 747 models. Boeing has delivered more wide-bodies in the first 3 quarters than they did all of last year.

Another point is the increased production of 737's, which now seems to equal the A320 series at around 28-30 per month. This was achieved in the third quarter (July-Sep).

Twelve months from now the 787 will be in flight-test and in 18 months, they will be rolling out of Everett in significant quantities.
 
thebry
Posts: 337
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:32 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 2):
Or it could be that Boeing is using some of the profits that they are getting from the widebodies ( look at the no. sold and delivered in the last 3 years) to make the 737NG more price competitive in addition to the various other cost cutting and time saving measures they have implemented over the years ! The weaker dollar also plays a role here IMO !!

OR... it could be that Boeing is able to deliver 737s ordered today faster than Airbus would be able to deliver A320s ordered today. I believe the A320 backlog is larger than that of the 737. By the end of the year they might be neck and neck (with regard to backlogged orders).

Anyone have the actual numbers?
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:53 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 4):
OR... it could be that Boeing is able to deliver 737s ordered today faster than Airbus would be able to deliver A320s ordered today. I believe the A320 backlog is larger than that of the 737. By the end of the year they might be neck and neck (with regard to backlogged orders).

Anyone have the actual numbers?

Airbus has about 238 more on backlog then boeing although Last years mamoth 900+ A320 sale contributed a lot to it !!
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27226
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:54 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 2):
Or it could be that Boeing is using some of the profits that they are getting from the widebodies ( look at the no. sold and delivered in the last 3 years) to make the 737NG more price competitive in addition to the various other cost cutting and time saving measures they have implemented over the years !

Well Airbus is rumored to have a ~5% more efficient "A320E" waiting in the wings (excuse the pun), so perhaps Boeing is being a bit more aggressive.

Quoting Thebry (Reply 4):
OR... it could be that Boeing is able to deliver 737s ordered today faster than Airbus would be able to deliver A320s ordered today. I believe the A320 backlog is larger than that of the 737.

The current A320 family backlog is 1610 frames per Airbus' September spreadsheet (subtracting deliveries from orders). Boeing's is 1449 per their Orders and Deliveries page (subtracting all Current Model 737 deliveries from all Current Model 737 orders).

Boeing's production rate was 28 per month prior to 9/11, at which point it was halved. Not sure what it is now. Airbus was aiming for a 30 frame per month production rate, but I don't know what it currently is.
 
flydreamliner
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):

Well Airbus is rumored to have a ~5% more efficient "A320E" waiting in the wings (excuse the pun), so perhaps Boeing is being a bit more aggressive.

I'm guessing no on that one. They wouldn't keep it 'waiting in the wings' at this point - with so much going south. With all the trouble they are having, i don't know on that one. I'll believe it when it materializes.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
bringiton
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 11:26 am

Would it be the right timing to introduce the A320E ? I have heard that 2008 is being thought off but they should be in the designing and manufactering stage if that EIS date is to met . Personally i doubt that the A320E will see the light of day simply because Airbus and boeing will offer a completely different aircraft .
 
zvezda
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 1:54 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
I also wonder whether the slow sales of the A320 have anything to do with the A380 fiasco this year. Airlines losing faith in Airbus? What else could explain it? The A320 has matched or beaten the 737NG for the last few years, and now the 737NG is huge in comparison...

I think it is more likely random fluctuation. Next year could go back the other way with more A320 orders. Also, both manufacturers usually have good fourth quarters, but that is especially true for Airbus. I doubt the WhaleJet fiasco has anything to do with the disappointing A320 sales so far this year.
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:16 pm

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 5):
Airbus has about 238 more on backlog then boeing although Last years mamoth 900+ A320 sale contributed a lot to it !!



Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
The current A320 family backlog is 1610 frames per Airbus' September spreadsheet (subtracting deliveries from orders). Boeing's is 1449 per their Orders and Deliveries page (subtracting all Current Model 737 deliveries from all Current Model 737 orders).

The current backlog of narrow-bodies (A320 series and 737)as of September, 2006, is 1575 to 1440 in favor of Airbus (135 units).

According to analysts (Teal Group) this translates to $70 billion for Airbus versus $63 billion for Boeing (based on typical sales prices, not published list prices).

All in all, Boeing now leads Airbus in total backlog by $169 billion to $139 billion.

$308 billion total to the two of the most interesting countries in the world - France and the USA.
 
thebry
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:28 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 10):
The current backlog of narrow-bodies (A320 series and 737)as of September, 2006, is 1575 to 1440 in favor of Airbus (135 units).

Wow... I didn't realize it was so close. So much for the argument about customers choosing the 737 due to earlier delivery slots. And that paltry 135 unit gap could be closed this year given how well the 737 is selling. With 539 net orders this year, it's certainly on a tear.

Anyone know how this year's gap (190 A32x/31x vs 539 B737) compares to last year's? I know Airbus sold a TON of narrow-body aircraft last year, but am not sure what the delta was between what they sold and how many narrow-bodies Boeing sold. It'd be interesting to map that to this year's trend.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:33 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 11):
Wow... I didn't realize it was so close. So much for the argument about customers choosing the 737 due to earlier delivery slots.

well, AA and DL both have a large number on permanent deferral right now, so that could swing the numbers toward greater 737 availability. But then again, I don't know how many of those huge A320 orders are for jets "far in the future" anyway. Same goes for some of the 737 orders last year.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
A342
Posts: 4017
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:40 am

Quoting Dhefty (Reply 10):
$308 billion total to the two of the most interesting countries in the world - France and the USA.

OMG, when will people finally get that Airbus isn't France ?
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 12):
AA and DL both have a large number on permanent deferral right now, so that could swing the numbers toward greater 737 availability.

On the other hand, UA have 42 A319/A320s indefinitely deferred.
 
baron95
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:53 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
OMG, when will people finally get that Airbus isn't France ?

Dude wake up. What percentage of EADS (the parent of Airbus) is OWNED by the FRENCH government? What other government owns a larger share? NONE.

What nation employes the largest number of Airbus workers? France.

God won't help you there. Get over it.

It is a French controlled company.

Next.
Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 15):
It is a French controlled company.

The French choose 5 of 11 directors. 7 are required to agree to anything.
 
A342
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Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2005 11:05 pm

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:01 am

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 15):

Why even bother with a reply.  Yeah sure We all know your knowledge about Airbus is the best out there.
Exceptions confirm the rule.
 
thebry
Posts: 337
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:50 am

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:21 am

Quoting Thebry (Reply 11):
Anyone know how this year's gap (190 A32x/31x vs 539 B737) compares to last year's? I know Airbus sold a TON of narrow-body aircraft last year, but am not sure what the delta was between what they sold and how many narrow-bodies Boeing sold. It'd be interesting to map that to this year's trend.

Back on topic... can anyone answer this question? I still think it'd be interesting to see the data.
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:51 am

Last year it was Airbus over Boeing by 912 to 574.
 
art
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:54 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 8):
Personally i doubt that the A320E will see the light of day simply because Airbus and boeing will offer a completely different aircraft .

Someone's got to offer a completely better engine first, I read on this forum. IIRC that is not expected to happen this decade.

I think that Airbus would be foolish not to enhance the A320. Why? They need to get more profits fast without spending a lot on development and without tying up a large number of designers for long. A320E fits the bill.

By the way, AirMailer, in my English English your title "Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total" means Boeing has sold more aircraft Jan 1 to now this year than it did Jan 1 - Dec 31 last year. That's not the case. is it?
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:06 am

Quoting Art (Reply 20):
By the way, AirMailer, in my English English your title "Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total" means Boeing has sold more aircraft Jan 1 to now this year than it did Jan 1 - Dec 31 last year. That's not the case. is it?

It's wrong in any English. The moderators should change "Total" to "YTD".
 
airmailer
Topic Author
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:34 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
OMG, when will people finally get that Airbus isn't France ?



Quoting Art (Reply 20):
By the way, AirMailer, in my English English your title "Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total" means Boeing has sold more aircraft Jan 1 to now this year than it did Jan 1 - Dec 31 last year. That's not the case. is it?



Quoting Zvezda (Reply 21):
It's wrong in any English. The moderators should change "Total" to "YTD".

Tell that to ATW.

It was their article not mine (however I agree completely).

[Edited 2006-10-14 22:35:28]
 
dhefty
Posts: 587
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:44 am

Here's an interesting observation: Since January 2000, Boeing has outsold Airbus in the narrow-body segment by 2353 to 2316. During that same period Boeing has out-delivered Airbus by 1902 to 1738.
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 516
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 5:50 am

Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
OMG, when will people finally get that Airbus isn't France ?

When Jacques Chirac stops acting like he owns the company?

Oh wait, sorry, he DOES own the company......

 duck 

[Edited 2006-10-14 22:51:22]
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
airmailer
Topic Author
Posts: 478
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 4:28 am

RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 24):
Quoting A342 (Reply 13):
OMG, when will people finally get that Airbus isn't France ?

When Jacques Chirac stops acting like he owns the company?

Oh wait, sorry, he DOES own the company......

 checkmark 
Nice!
 
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Devilfish
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Spartanmjf (Reply 24):
When Jacques Chirac stops acting like he owns the company?

Oh wait, sorry, he DOES own the company......

Anyone updated on what has come out of this?.....

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...een+Angela+Merkel+and+Jacques.html
"Everyone is entitled to my opinion." - Garfield
 
kaitak744
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Sun Oct 15, 2006 4:37 pm

This should answer the question:

Quote:
"Airbus parent company EADS’ is 22.5%-owned by German firm DaimlerChrysler Aerospace. The French State owns 15% of EADS through SOGEPA, while France’s Lagardère owns a further 7.5%."

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...een+Angela+Merkel+and+Jacques.html

So, the French only own a total of 22.5% of EADS.
 
A342
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RE: Boeing 2006 Sales Ahead Of 2005 Total

Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:13 am

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 27):
This should answer the question:

Quote:
"Airbus parent company EADS' is 22.5%-owned by German firm DaimlerChrysler Aerospace. The French State owns 15% of EADS through SOGEPA, while France's Lagardère owns a further 7.5%."

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles...een+Angela+Merkel+and+Jacques.html

So, the French only own a total of 22.5% of EADS.

 checkmark  At least some facts !
Exceptions confirm the rule.

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