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goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Mon Jul 10, 2000 8:18 pm

Tritanic - WN tends to avoid fortress hubs because their 300 planes aren't making a nickle sitting as number 21 in line for takeoff. They may never serve ATL, but they still might serve Atlanta one day. And if that day comes, watch out. Delta's profits WILL be impacted. Reason? Well, let's look at the primo business travellers fare. He has to walk up to buy it, so it's FULL COACH.

BHM-BNA on WN = $129
ATL-BNA on DL = $759

You remember those billions that DL is spending for their top 10% of flyers? Guess where they are getting that money. Guess what happens if LUV moves into another airport in ATL. Yep, Delta's just watched a cash cow be sacrificed.

I'd like thank Travelin Man for his post as well. He dispelled your myth that everyone flying LUV is going to visit grandma or Aunt Cecil (odd name for a woman). He also points out what LUV offers...very frequent flights.

If the domestic market dries up and forces WN into the fortress hubs, you'll see some kind of changes from the majors. Remember, LUV is making a profit at that $129 BHM-BNA fare, so for the majors to match, they will most likely be operating at a loss. To undercut that price is financial suicide...Southwests pockets are just as deep.
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

Okay, I'll Give You

Tue Jul 11, 2000 1:30 am

the 107 MM passengers for DL in 1999. I didn't look it up, but I'll take your word for it.

65 Million is still not less than half of 107 Million, regardless of where you learned Arithmetic. That is unless of course we are talking about the public schools in Hogfart, Georgia.
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 4:40 am

Anybody seen Coex?
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4406
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

Southwest Is Less Succeptible..

Tue Jul 11, 2000 5:47 am

to predatory pricing by the "big" carriers. Southwest is one of the majors now. They lower the cost of flying in the markets they enter. The bottom line is that the service between Southwest and other carriers is no different on short-medium hall flights. If I was travelling transcon or longer flights then a difference in service appears. I commute between Houston and New Orleans alot my choices are either Southwest or Continental. I fly both. Continental offers me OnePass miles and they fly 757s on the route. However Southwest flies the route every hour and is almost always on time-they also fly into close in Hobby. The service on the two are identical. So this argument of Southwest cattlecar service is not really valid-especially since almost all the other majors are just now trying to remedy their inflight service.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
tritanic
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:12 pm

RE: Southwest Is Less Succeptible..

Tue Jul 11, 2000 6:05 am

Well Goingboeing nice to start another afternoon with the revolutionaries.....being sticklers on spelling and numbers....well let's start with fares....you quoted ATL BNA at $759.00...exactley what the hell are you talking about......the actual full fare is Y06 $364.00....and every where Sothwest flies we match as well.
They can't grow by just picking non hub markets that have no competition with any other airlines, fact! Inorder to grow they are going to have to cross over into the larger markets, and once they get to the major leagues will see how the add up to all the majors and their hefty perks!!!

You might be more familiar, but what is there long term growth plans ,and that's a serious question.
 
Guest

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 8:25 am

the spinmaster is back. it's been a while since i posted. here we go. in general with all airlines. we are an airline. not a catering service. if you are unhappy with the food, bring yer own. you can do it. the is no airline law that you can't bring yer own food on board the aircraft.

as far as metrojet, delta express......etc
these sub-divisions of us airways and delta we're created with the pleasure traveller in mind. they both offer advanced seating (unlike southwest). they offer point to point routes. avoiding the hustle aqnd bustle of the major hubs.

overall, comparing southwest vs. the majors...... every airline is serving their own purpose and doing a great job at it. the complaints are down. mishandled bags are down. on time is up. employee moral is up. if yer unhappy with yer job, quit and move on. nuff said.

can't we all just get along???????
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 8:48 am

Why, I got my fare from Delta's web site! Check it out. Book flight 1785 at 10:05 tomorrow morning with the return (yes, people have to get home) on flight 1891 leaving at 4:40 p.m. Typical businessmans power lunch meeting. The ROUND TRIP fare is $759

Or you could look at flights 1428 and 1891 or flights 1785 and 2189. Doesn't matter, the fares according to WWW.DELTAAIRLINES.COM are $759.

For what it's worth the round trip from Dallas to Houston is $185.

One thing I did need to clarify for you:

<< As with all the airlines the late 80's and early 90's spelled disaster. (EXCEPT SOUTHWEST) Most airlines reduced the work force at least 30 percent.(EXCEPT SOUTHWEST they actually hired people) Some airlines did not survive, but some did, and with survival you will see poor service, reduced number of aircraft, poor morale, and less money spent on passengers. (EXCEPT SOUTHWEST)

Hence a huge turnaround during the later half of the 90's. Finally a profit, well now lets make up for the previous 5 years, overnight? no I don't think so! (SOUTHWEST didn't need turning around) >>

In case you haven't noticed, they ARE in the major leagues. Look at their numbers out of Houston (hub for CO), and out of DAL (in states covered by Wright Amendment - hub for AA and DL) and out of LAX (hub for God knows how many airlines) or out of PHX (hub for America West) or out of Chicago (hub for AA and UAL). You'll see that they are doing pretty well against those "big-leaguers". I don't think you'll find AA or UAL raping the last minute traveller between Chicago and Kansas City. That's about the same distance as ATL-BNA and their walkup round trip is $263. Pretty far cry from $759, don't you think?



 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 8:42 pm

Anybody seen Coex?
 
Guest

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 10:50 pm

I think that Southwest is the greatest success story in commercial aviation. However, it is a scientific, precise formula that makes them successful. As TxAgQ8 stated, you can't mess with the recipe and other carriers, in emulating WN with their fly by night operations, try to f*** with the ingredients.

Concerning predatory pricing, when a startup like Legend comes on the scene, AA is considered as predatory pricing to match and undercut Legend's fares, Vanguard for that matter also. However, when WN enters a new market and has drastically reduced fares, everyone cheers. Why do you suppose there is a difference? Because for the mega's it is temporary fix?
 
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drerx7
Posts: 4406
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2000 12:19 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Tue Jul 11, 2000 11:03 pm

Southwest lowers fares because that is its formula. The other's lower their fares in order to run the new guy out-then they raise them back up. Usually Southwest's fares hover around the same general price.
HOUSTON, TEXAS
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Wed Jul 12, 2000 4:35 am

still got an APB out for Coex...or am I gonna have to start an "I LUV Southwest" thread to get him out of hiding and put up one simple post about why he left Southwest, and why he harbors such a hatred of the airline?
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Wed Jul 12, 2000 5:29 am

Such hatred isn't healthy for you Coex, let it go man....
Dear moderators: No.
 
Guest

Please

Wed Jul 12, 2000 5:34 am

Would you all just let it go? His failure to reply in and of itself speaks volumes about his credibility or lack thereof.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

RE: Please

Wed Jul 12, 2000 11:01 am

Coex does this alot, you try to ask him about his time at SWA and he just disappears. I'm starting to think that he never worked there, or if he did, he was fired and he holds a grudge.
Dear moderators: No.
 
txagkuwait
Posts: 1388
Joined: Fri Aug 27, 1999 7:39 am

Sorry, Whippy

Thu Jul 13, 2000 9:14 am

But speaking for me and GoingBoeing, we can't let CoEx get over this easy.

We are staunch defenders of truth, justice, and I would say American way but that might imply we endorsed AA. AAfter whAAt they did to my bAAggAAge, I am less than AAmused.

At any rate, if and when Coex does return to enlighten us I would think we should expect one whale of a tale...and I ain't talkin' about the Shamu plane.
 
We're Nuts
Posts: 4723
Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2000 6:12 am

Shame, Shame, Coex

Thu Jul 13, 2000 9:33 am

I know people at SWA who might know more about this Coex character, perhaps I'll ask them.
Dear moderators: No.
 
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B737-112
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 1999 6:01 pm

Why Let This Post Die?

Fri Jul 14, 2000 4:49 pm

It's on the second page so let's start again, this is fun! -Ryan
 
goingboeing
Posts: 4727
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 1999 1:58 am

RE: Why Isn't Southwest The Industry Model?

Fri Jul 28, 2000 8:36 am

Welcome back Coex - saw you post on the Continental thead for the first time since the 14th. I'm still wondering how come you left Southwest.

Eagerly awaiting...

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