BA First

walter747 · Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:38 am

Why is BA's first class so expensive? I compared BA first with EK's A345 suite with the same travel dates.

I priced it out for 2 people from JFK to LHR and it came out to $27,431!!!!

I priced out a flight on EK from JFK to DXB with their A345 first suite and it only came to $19,559!!

It's almost $10,000 cheaper.

What is so special about BA first. I was think that EK would be cheaper because they had the first suite, but it wasn't infact it was almost $10,000 cheaper.

alaskaqantas · Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:47 am

That is surprising. I would love to try the A345 suites on EK especially for 10,000 cheaper then BA!

One reason that I can think of is that this is one of BA's main international routes and they have been flying this route for ages, so there must be a higher demand or else they wouldn't charge that much if people weren't going to buy it at that price.
~Cheers-
~~Kyle H.

walter747 · Sun Oct 22, 2006 10:55 am

well i originaled priced it out from BOS to LHR and it was even more it was like $27,913 or something like that it was very surprising. I would easily chose EK for $10,000 cheaper to.

anax · Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:43 am

EK doesn't pay fuel at the price BA does , to start with.

AKLDELNonstop · Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:52 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 3):

That and maybe BA can charge higher fares due to its long established brand name. Important to people who are loyal to a particular carrier they arent likely to shift toother carriers irrespective of fare or product.

Just thinking of plausible reasons.

Quoting Alaskaqantas (Reply 1):
I would love to try the A345 suites on EK especially for 10,000 cheaper then BA!

Absolutely mate!!! Might try out EK to BNE soon. Cheaper than NZ or QF wid far better service.

Cheers

bastew · Sun Oct 22, 2006 4:23 pm

Quoting Walter747 (Thread starter):
Why is BA's first class so expensive? I compared BA first with EK's A345 suite with the same travel dates.

I priced it out for 2 people from JFK to LHR and it came out to $27,431!!!!

I guess like any product, it is priced according to what the market will pay.

And on LHR/JFK some people seem to want to pay silly money to travel! Lol

On nearly every LHR/JFK or vv flight I have operated FIRST has been full, or near full.

LobsterTail · Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:29 pm

It is simple demand and supply. There are enough people who want to travel in F between JFK and LHR that BA can sell at that price. You can guarentee if EK could sell JFK-DXB at that price they would but currently there is not the deman on this route.

willyj · Sun Oct 22, 2006 5:44 pm

There is a lot more demand for First Class travel between JFK and LHR than to DXB. This is why Business class fares to London are more expensive than to smaller markets in Europe (like Brussles or Madrid) even when you have to fly through London.

Delta777Jet · Sun Oct 22, 2006 6:52 pm

Walter747: I dont know to which prices you refering, but even Concorde service wasn't priced at the level of 27k for a round trip. I guess BA F class returns are around at 13k full flexible.

ClassicLover · Sun Oct 22, 2006 7:39 pm

Quoting Delta777jet (Reply 8):
Walter747: I dont know to which prices you refering, but even Concorde service wasn't priced at the level of 27k for a round trip. I guess BA F class returns are around at 13k full flexible.

That's what he said, $27,000 for two people round trip... or around $13,000 each fully flexible.

Quoting Walter747 (Thread starter):
What is so special about BA first.

I've been told BA First is one of the best experiences in First in the world. They price it accordingly. I'll let you know in April when I take BA First from BKK to SYD Smile

airxliban · Sun Oct 22, 2006 8:17 pm

Quoting Anax (Reply 3):
EK doesn't pay fuel at the price BA does , to start with.

I don't think thats true. Dubai petrol stations don't even have the luxury of buying cheap fuel as in Abu Dhabi for instance. They buy gasoline at international market prices and sell it at a huge loss (something like 30 million dirhams per month). Even still, petrol is much more expensive in the UAE than in the KSA for example.

tcxdegsy · Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:19 pm

TO be fair, price comparisons should be like-for-like to get the best picture.

13th April LHR-DXB (ret 17th): BA £2,446 EA £2,186

HOWEVER

Going the opposite way return on the same dates is more expensive!
BA £2,707 EA £2,493

So, although BA is more expensive by 12% departing from LHR than EA, BA prices rise by 10.7% if travelling in the opposite direction, yet Emirate's prices rise by over 14% when departing from their own hub!

jcavinato · Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:35 pm

My take is that it seems about half the F cabin on BA is filled with finance and legal types. The former are given perks beyond their phenomenal salaries and bonuses. I've seen it discussed in job interviews. The high end lawyers are always on client billings and can charge it to the clients. And, now and then I've seen media types who are also into big perks.

LHR-JFK is the mainline of Atlantic, and BA can take advantage of a largely inelastic pricing situation in club and first.

jfk777 · Sun Oct 22, 2006 11:42 pm

JFK to LHR First and Club pricing has nothing to due with distance. You can buy a First or Club ticket beyond LHR for far less money to many destinations. There is no relation between the price and the length of the trip. One reason JFK( and all USA) to LHR is the Heathrow 4 airlines(BA, AA, UA and Virgin). Why does AA have 17 flights a day to LHR with all 777 ? Premuim classes and high fares.

vv701 · Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Tcxdegsy (Reply 11):
So, although BA is more expensive by 12% departing from LHR than EA, BA prices rise by 10.7% if travelling in the opposite direction, yet Emirate's prices rise by over 14% when departing from their own hub!

How about the exchange rate being responsible?

I remember when the £/$ exchange rate was $1.035=£1.00. Quite recently the same exchange rate was $1.92=£1.00. Now the $1.03 exchange rate was as long ago as around 1982 or 1983, but . . .

If an airline had opened a new US-UK route then at a fare of $1,035 the price in the UK would likely have been £1,000. If their had been no price changes as the exchange rate changed a comparison at $1.92 to £1.00 would make the US price still be $1,035 and the UK price price would be £1,000 or, translated into current US Dollars, $1,920.

Of course tha above example is absurd. But it shows the influence on comparative prices of a changing exchange rate.

hodja · Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:11 am

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):
I've been told BA First is one of the best experiences in First in the world. They price it accordingly.

Just to clarify one thing - while BA First is indeed nice, we're not talking ultra luxury resort type living here or some fantastic live changing experience.

It's still just a fairly uncomfortable airline seat in a cramped and noisy cabin, with food that's definitely so-so compared to most above average non-airborne restaurants. (w/chintzy portions to match)

In the words of a previous poster, paying the actual cash fare for one of those seats is truly silly money and is certainly not "accordingly priced".

Using points to grab an award seat is another story of course...

jfk777 · Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:11 am

For a 12/5 departure and 12/14 return, from JFK to JNB in FIRST is $12,936.75 & to Mumbai First is $ 9,971. Travel beyond London can be cheaper by far.

ClassicLover · Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:29 am

Quoting Hodja (Reply 15):
Just to clarify one thing - while BA First is indeed nice, we're not talking ultra luxury resort type living here or some fantastic live changing experience.

Funnily enough just after writing my comment I went over to Flyertalk for a bit of a browse. The posts there basically said that in oneworld, CX first is best, followed by QF first with BA a distant third. I guess it's all a matter of personal opinion.

... and I know it's not a life changing experience. That was flying J after flying Y. It's hard to go back!

Quoting Hodja (Reply 15):
It's still just a fairly uncomfortable airline seat in a cramped and noisy cabin, with food that's definitely so-so compared to most above average non-airborne restaurants. (w/chintzy portions to match)

Well, comparing airline food to a good restaurant on the ground is just unfair due to the unique operating conditions and hence food preparation differences that airline work entails.

georgiaame · Mon Oct 23, 2006 12:59 am

In my youth, the travel bible was Frommer's "Europe on $5 a day" which included room, food, intown transport. Considering that JFK is about 7 hours away from London, maybe 8 hours back, that luxury translates to a a tad less than $2000. per hour. I guess if you have so much money that you don't know what to do with the stuff, that's fine with me, and I'm sure it's fine with BA. BUT, IMHO, everyone who disgorges from the aircraft will be wearing the same rumpled clothing, have the same matted hair, the same dry, clogged nostrils, the same dank armpits, and feel like s*** regardless where they sat, or what they nibbled in transit. Much as I wish I could join the beautiful people up front, alas, I can't. At least I know I'm a bit smarter than they are, at least when it comes to throwing good money away.

zrs70 · Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:47 am

A couple of things: It is about an $8000, not $10,000 difference! Still, it is big.

But anyone who is wanting this flight should simply get an AMEX platinum card and take advantage of the 2 for 1, getting two F seats for $13,500 all in on BA.

hodja · Mon Oct 23, 2006 3:59 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 18):
BUT, IMHO, everyone who disgorges from the aircraft will be wearing the same rumpled clothing, have the same matted hair, the same dry, clogged nostrils, the same dank armpits, and feel like s*** regardless where they sat, or what they nibbled in transit.

Yeah, slice it any way you want, in most rational aspects and all else being equal, J/F fare levels are truly the biggest con there is.

I'm genuinely curious about how this weird airline economy somehow continues to work so well (for some airlines at least), and why corporations still choose to play along with this.

I know of no rational market where the price differential is so disproportional to the service benefits received.

Maybe it's because airlines tickets isn't a rational market.

ClassicLover · Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:35 am

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 18):
BUT, IMHO, everyone who disgorges from the aircraft will be wearing the same rumpled clothing, have the same matted hair, the same dry, clogged nostrils, the same dank armpits, and feel like s*** regardless where they sat, or what they nibbled in transit. Much as I wish I could join the beautiful people up front, alas, I can't.

... and that last sentence explains your comments completely.

I have flown J and I am hardly one of the "beautiful people". I eschew other things in order to be comfortable when I take my long trips home to Australia from Europe every year. At the same time, not having cash to throw away, I find creative routings that allow me to fly J at a reduced price than bog standard over the counter fares. Anyone can do it, all it takes it creativity and time.

When I've had the pleasure of flying J, I've arrived at my destination excited and ready to go. When I last flew 12 hours in Economy, all I could do for the last 5 hours was think, "When will it be over, when will it be over, I want to get out of here!"

One doesn't arrive in the same way - mindset wise, and with regards to how you feel. There is no comparison whatsoever. The extra room, flat beds, service and the rest all add up to a person arriving to their destination completely refreshed.

Trust me on this one.

Quoting GeorgiaAME (Reply 18):
At least I know I'm a bit smarter than they are, at least when it comes to throwing good money away.

One day, "throw some good money away" and try it.

RB211LTN · Mon Oct 23, 2006 4:47 am

I'll tell you what makes BA worth more. It is called Class.

The BA First product has been refined over many years and it is delivered with a discreet style that appeals to the British psyche. The 'bling' mentality simply doesn't work in Britain. Overt shows of wealth are not appreciated.

EK's First suites look great in terms of comfort, but in terms of style.....oh dear. Naff. Naff. Naff. They look like the waiting room in a brothel. Too much decor, too little discretion. EK think you can sprinkle a turd with diamonds and turn it in to a piece of jewellery. It doesn't work like that.

People who can afford to fly First on BA do it because it is just SO British. If it were my $10k I'm not sure I could justify it. If it were my employer's money I wouldn't have a problem spending it!

JAGflyer · Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:14 am

Almost $15,000 one way to LHR? I know people with money but really, I can't see too many people spending that much for an 8 hours flight.

trekster · Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:20 am

Trust me people do buy it, i have seen first full on that flight before.

Im sure i have sold a first seat on there before as well

Condor24 · Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:00 am

I have flown both BA First & Cathay First Class ....

I have just flown LHR - MIA with BA. Food was good but not great. Service .... staff were ok. Seat was fairly comfortable but materials used and cushion comfort are not great. BUT worst of awful, the 747 cabin had lousy ventilation and was very warm. When I told a member of staff (politely) that the cabin was uncomfortable, I was told that no other passenger had mentioned it. Later on, almost at the point of passing out, another member of staff said she would check the system and then reduced the temperature from 24 degrees to 21.

All in all ... cabin comfort was poor !

Compared to Cathay, regrettably BA comes no where near. Cathay First is a real pleasure !

bastew · Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:04 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 24):
Trust me people do buy it, i have seen first full on that flight before.

It is more often full/near full on the JFK route than not.

Same with the aussie routes, or route i should say. FIRST is always busy/full. I recently did a LHR/BKK/SYD/BKK/LHR trip and FIRST was full on every single sector of the trip.

FlyEmirates · Mon Oct 23, 2006 6:14 am

RB211LTN, I couldnt have put it better myself, looking at certain passenger profiles which seem to be inhabiting premium classes these days along with the brash appeal of the actual product on many carriers means that BA First is one of only 3 airlines that I would bother spending the money on.

kanebear · Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Anax (Reply 3):
EK doesn't pay fuel at the price BA does , to start with.

Zero to do with the fares.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 9):

I've been told BA First is one of the best experiences in First in the world. They price it accordingly. I'll let you know in April when I take BA First from BKK to SYD Smile

As stated above, nowhere near it. It's good, but definitely not even in the top four any longer. SQ, CX, EK, EY, all are vastly better in seating, service, food or all of the above. Even AA has a better seat. BA's F seat was one of the first flat products out, but it's way behind the curve and is cramped, especially for side sleepers.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 14):

How about the exchange rate being responsible?

Nope. Fares generally don't fluctuate with exchange rate. Large exchange rate fluctuations can make fares abroad very inexpensive, however. This occurred in 2002 when the South African Rand crashed. I purchased a six-continent Round The World ticket on OneWorld in F for $4100. Still cost just as much for ZA residents though!

Quoting Zrs70 (Reply 19):
But anyone who is wanting this flight should simply get an AMEX platinum card and take advantage of the 2 for 1, getting two F seats for $13,500 all in on BA.

Or you can play 'origination' games and get it a lot cheaper than that! Quick trip to BGI and you can fly BGI-LHR-BGI in F for $5200. Better yet, you can fly BGI-MIA-LHR-MIA-BGI and take the very same legs that'd cost you $15,000 or so MIA-LHR-MIA. Cheapest way to SYD in biz?? Hint, it ain't on QF. Try BA, $6500 roundtrip. Mind you ya have to fly to LHR and then LHR-SIN-SYD but if you have the time and want the miles... it's a heck of a way to get there.

As for F pricing ex-US to LHR, it's a high demand business route and corporations pay the price (less their negotiated discount of course). Very few flying that route are doing so out of their own pockets... such corporate activity is why the US is one of the highest priced premium fare markets in the world.

[Edited 2006-10-23 00:34:36]

Avianca · Mon Oct 23, 2006 7:41 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 28):
Try BA, $6500 roundtrip

my results for JFK-LHR-SYD and back on F 27.391,33 USD per person, but have to be faire, its included the taxes Big grin

jfk777 · Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:18 am

One erason BA F and J Fares are so high is they caharge the "Concorde" premuim. When Concorde was around BA would charge just slightly less for First and Club. Concorde is retired but the legacy is still in the pricing. Sometimes club for $2000.00 RT can be found.

kanebear · Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 29):

my results for JFK-LHR-SYD and back on F 27.391,33 USD per person, but have to be faire, its included the taxes Big grin

Price it in D (Business) from SJU. Wink

aussiestu · Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:47 am

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 28):

Quoting Kanebear (Reply 28):
BA's F seat was one of the first flat products out, but it's way behind the curve and is cramped, especially for side sleepers.

BA was first with a flat bed in First so now its maybe time for them to relaunch and make the others catch up???? I believe BAs First is due to be relaunched.......what shall we get?

Quoting BAStew (Reply 26):
It is more often full/near full on the JFK route than not.

Always full on any flight that I have been on so someone is paying for it!!!

Quoting Hodja (Reply 15):
It's still just a fairly uncomfortable airline seat in a cramped and noisy cabin, with food that's definitely so-so compared to most above average non-airborne restaurants. (w/chintzy portions to match)

Never found a First class seat uncomfortable or cramped or noisy. Food, well what do you expect at 35,000ft? Eat before you get on, thats the luxury of BAs First product.

walter747 · Thu Oct 26, 2006 7:58 am

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 32):
BA was first with a flat bed in First so now its maybe time for them to relaunch and make the others catch up???? I believe BAs First is due to be relaunched.......what shall we get?

actually AF was

zrs70 · Thu Oct 26, 2006 8:38 am

A few years back, I flew Pisa-London-JFK-LAX.
PSA-LGW was on BA in C
LHR-JFK was on Concorde
JFK-LAX was on United First

Ticket came out to only $3500. All because it originated in Italy.

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