pilot21
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Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:25 am

Welcome aboard,

Captain Kaitak is otherwise engaged this evening, but he is still in control of these very informative and thought provoking threads, aided by his extremely competent crew members: Poitin, Smokeyrosco, Shamrock350, Shamrocka330 and rest of the gang. As I don't have the ability to match Kaitak's opening paragraphs on these new threads, we'll get on with the flightplan.

RTE news is tonight reporting that part of the new EI pilot’s consortium ‘Tailwind’ is actually made up of FR pilots. Apparently a number of FR pilots have joined the group and bought EI shares to block the take-over of EI by FR, as they fear 1 employer that large in Ireland will be able to drive down pilot wages, or ship in cheap labour, thus putting the Irish pilots out of jobs. The piece on the story is below

A consortium of Aer Lingus pilots who are investing in the airline's shares in an attempt to block a take over led by Michael O'Leary are being supported by a number of Ryanair pilots.

Pilots from both companies are buying shares through a company called Tailwind Nominees.

Aer Lingus pilots have been steadily building up a stake in the airline and now own 1.8% or €20m worth of Aer Lingus shares. Their pension fund has also bought €30m of stock.

RTE has now learned that some Ryanair pilots have also been investing in Tailwind, and buying Aer Lingus shares. Those pilots are trying to block the €1.4 billion take over of Aer Lingus by Ryanair.

If the airlines were merged the majority of the pilots in the country flying large commercial jets would be working for one company.

They fear Ryanair management could drive down their wages because the pilots would have few other job opportunities.

Ryanair has had a tense relationship with its pilots in the past over the issue of union representation.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:33 am

Ohh thats really interesting... hahaha I have to laugh.

I have to say the "Blood on the carpet" next year seems more and more like FR's colour (with a U) of red
John Hancock
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:21 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
Welcome aboard,

Captain Kaitak is otherwise engaged this evening, but he is still in control of these very informative and thought provoking threads, aided by his extremely competent crew members: Poitin, Smokeyrosco, Shamrock350, Shamrocka330 and rest of the gang. As I don't have the ability to match Kaitak's opening paragraphs on these new threads, we'll get on with the flightplan.

Thank you for taking on the role of starship commander -- now its YOURS! Big grin

Nice introduction, you did real well!  thumbsup 

Quoting Pilot21 (Thread starter):
RTE has now learned that some Ryanair pilots have also been investing in Tailwind, and buying Aer Lingus shares. Those pilots are trying to block the €1.4 billion take over of Aer Lingus by Ryanair.

If the airlines were merged the majority of the pilots in the country flying large commercial jets would be working for one company.

Why am I surprised that the FR pilots, who absolutely love and adore MOL would do such a thing?  Yeah sure

From the previous thread:

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 135):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 133):
Which is exactly E32,500 more money if I get laid off by FR than if I get laid off by EI.

EI's has always looked after the people that left the airline and god knows where the shares will be next year. if there are 4 euro then they will put 32K to shame.

EI is about to change, one way or another, for the worse, I am sad to say. I can't see them continuing in the old ways. Now don't get me wrong, I am all for it. Years ago I worked for DEC, the premier minicomputer company and they were 100 per cent behind their employees.

However, EI is in survival mode. About half of the company must go. This is exactly what Boeing did 6 years ago and look at them now. As for DEC, I watched it go from the second biggest computer manufacturer in the world to nothing. It was bought by Tandem Computers, who were bought by Compact, who was bought by HP.

Why did that happen? Because DEC couldn't see the handwriting on the wall with regard to microcomputers. I bailed, moved to Silly Con Valley working for Zilog on their Z80 and Z8000 microcomputers.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
pilot21
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:01 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 2):
Thank you for taking on the role of starship commander -- now its YOURS!

Haha, no thanks Poitin, I'll step in when needed, but I haven't graduated to the lefthand seat just yet  Smile

Was flicking through the Dublin airport website and noted that Eirjet is still displayed on the departure and arrival board over the next few days. Does anybody know if somebody stepped in to provide emergency cash to get them through the bank holiday weekend, or is another carrier using the name and ICAO id as a temporary measure?

Lanzarote Eirjet EIR916 28-10-2006 05:55

Or has the DAA just scr*wed up again and forgot to take the Eirjet timetable out of their system?
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:29 am

Nice intro Pilot21!
I was just looking at some new pictures of Terminal 2 on the DUB website.
http://www.dublinairportauthority.com/media-centre/image_gallery.html
I love that new Aer Lingus livery on the 777! There are two images providing close ups of the new pier and a larger view if T2 from above.
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 3):
Haha, no thanks Poitin, I'll step in when needed, but I haven't graduated to the lefthand seat just yet

You're it, LAD! I did the first never ending IRISH Aviation Thread,
The Never-ending Irish Aviation Thread (by Poitin Mar 3 2006 in Civil Aviation)

and Kaitak did the next 16. So you're on the hook.

Welcome to the LEFT seat, Lad. Big grin
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 6:59 am

Well done, Pilot21 - a fine takeoff and into level cruise; I always much prefer the view from the jump seat. I get to relax while others do the work.

So, what's this then! FR pilots finding that revenge is a dish best served cold. I wonder how this is going to shake things up. The problem is that, when you clear away the various motives - revenge, general antipathy etc etc, what are you left with? Why do FR pilots feel the need to be involved. The only thing I can guess is that these are IALPA pilots and IALPA represents both airlines. I still have to question whether it's a good move for them. To quote the old question: "what's it to ya?" ... What is it actually, to them? Why should FR pilots get worked up about this, to the extent that they'd want to spend money stopping MO'L? If I were an FR pilot, I certainly wouldn't like to see my pension funds or anything like that being squandered.

Is it actually a good investment; that has to be the key question. Chevron Oil, Shell etc, are good investments. (Here, of course, we need to distinguish between nominees and trustees; nominees don't have discretion, nor the responsibilty that goes with that; effectively, they do what they're told, but that still doesn't make it a good investment!) I think pilots are going to be badly stung and it'll be a very painful way to learn that letting the heart lead investment decisions is never a good idea.
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
If I were an FR pilot, I certainly wouldn't like to see my pension funds or anything like that being squandered.

What FR pension fund?...
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:33 pm

OK, fair point - what I meant is whatever money my union has. (It was late, I was tired ...)
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sat Oct 28, 2006 11:58 pm

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 7):
Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
If I were an FR pilot, I certainly wouldn't like to see my pension funds or anything like that being squandered.

What FR pension fund?...

True there is no FR fund but the Irish airline pilots have a pension fund which was investing in EI stock at E3.04. This is a bad investment.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 6):
So, what's this then! FR pilots finding that revenge is a dish best served cold. I wonder how this is going to shake things up. The problem is that, when you clear away the various motives - revenge, general antipathy etc etc, what are you left with?

As I said earlier, a bunch of people making stupid decisions.

I think the airline pilots, whether in their poorly invested pension funds, or the Tailwind group, who are doing almost as bad, are going to wake up one day with egg on their face, which is a very poor form of revenge.

The same goes for DOB. He will loose money in this deal.

Frankly, I have always agreed with your position that Ard Ri Bernie should drag DM and MOL into a room, knock some sense into them and get them to work together. I see a very strong possibility for a synergistic relationship between EI and FR, however it may be arranged. Obviously MOL wants control as does DM. That leads to conflict, a conflict that EI can not hope to survive.

While it is possible for DM to save EI by massive labor cuts, that is not going to happen with SIPTU involved, which they will.

Sounds like MOL will have to go to plan "B", which is Blood on the Carpet.

I think we are about to see some sad days ahead, which I don't think need to have to happen if people would start thinking with their minds and not their manhood.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:53 am

The A330 which was grounded in Malaga yesterday with a nosegear problem is still there, which presumably has resulted in more flight delays. Anyone know if EI has leased any temporary aircraft?

Quoting Poitin (Reply 9):
Frankly, I have always agreed with your position that Ard Ri Bernie should drag DM and MOL into a room, knock some sense into them and get them to work together. I see a very strong possibility for a synergistic relationship between EI and FR, however it may be arranged. Obviously MOL wants control as does DM. That leads to conflict, a conflict that EI can not hope to survive.

While it is possible for DM to save EI by massive labor cuts, that is not going to happen with SIPTU involved, which they will.

Sounds like MOL will have to go to plan "B", which is Blood on the Carpet.

I think we are about to see some sad days ahead, which I don't think need to have to happen if people would start thinking with their minds and not their manhood.

It is going to get a bit rough, but at the end of the day, what is going to emerge from this? I think it is going to be necessary for some conciliation effort on the government's part, although whether Bertie (did you mean Bertie when you said "Ard Ri Bernie"?) will actually want to contact MO'L. Nonetheless, as you said, time to clear heads; it's important that there is a clear vision for EI. My fear is that when EI produces its rebuttal of FR's offer document, it may end up being just that, but it needs to be much more: it needs to set out EI's plans for growth and it vision for how it sees the future working out. And on that basis, investors are going to need to be convinced that there is such a plan in place.

If SIPTU obstructs EI's plan to cut more workers (and I can't see them doing otherwise, because it looks as if the workers most likely to be cut are its members!), then that will only strengthen MO'L's hand. Nothing is more likely to upset investors than EI having to live with SIPTU for ever more. If there's any way to dump them, they will like that.

That said, I can't see IALPA or other unions being willing to sit down with MO'L, or indeed he being willing to sit down with them, but he must be prepared for the possibility that he will. Even if (which now seems unlikely) MO'L succeeds in getting the 50.1% he needs of EI, that won't absolve him of the duty to act in the interests of all shareholders, so if he has a mind to shut the airline down, that won't happen; nor indeed will de-listing happen. As I've said before, the govt may now be a minority shareholder, but it is still the govt and it has an important role to play here.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:51 am

Aer Lingus starts it’s new routes tomorrow, DUB-NCL is scheduled to depart at 14.00 and arrive in Newcastle at 15.00. The other EI routes include ORK-MAD, ORK-PRG and ORK-ACE. DUB-TRN will start in December.
I would love to see more routes from ORK to Britain. At the moment EI only fly to BHX and LHR from ORK. I don’t think the NCL route will last very long with FR already on the route but timing is slightly better on EI, I hope it doesn’t end up like Liverpool.
With talk that EI will base a fifth A320 at ORK next summer I’m sure we will see some more routes, perhaps Riga, Frankfurt, Lisbon, Bristol and some more Eastern European routes.
Aer Lingus have been expanding in DUB a lot recently and so has FR. Britain is pretty much covered by both EI and FR (mainly FR) so now if EI fight this take over and go head to head with FR they are going to have to go back and look at longer European routes and possibly North African. Either way EI are going to have to build and maintain a strong short haul network.

So what new routes for Aer Lingus would you like to see in Europe from both ORK and DUB?
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
Bertie (did you mean Bertie when you said "Ard Ri Bernie"?)

Yeap, mia culpa!

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
If SIPTU obstructs EI's plan to cut more workers (and I can't see them doing otherwise, because it looks as if the workers most likely to be cut are its members!), then that will only strengthen MO'L's hand. Nothing is more likely to upset investors than EI having to live with SIPTU for ever more. If there's any way to dump them, they will like that.

Since a large part of the "investors" are the government, IALP, DOB, ESOPT, and FR, that leaves only about 15% of the stock in other peoples hands. They will be the ones buying and selling and so set the price. A SIPTU strike would cause a stampede by them. Then MOL has EI and cheaply.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
Even if (which now seems unlikely) MO'L succeeds in getting the 50.1% he needs of EI, that won't absolve him of the duty to act in the interests of all shareholders, so if he has a mind to shut the airline down, that won't happen; nor indeed will de-listing happen

I disagree. The question is not if MOL get EI but is he willing to go to Plan "B" and start driving EI into the ground. If he doesn't, the "blood on the carpet" comment will come back to haunt him because he will look spineless. If he does, he will look bloody thirsty.

Now as for plan B, who said anything about shutting down the airline? All he needs is that 50.1% of the votes. That is still in play and can happen several different ways. The easiest is to scare the hell out of the stock holders such as ESOPT and buy them out. The hard core opposition: the govenment, the pilots and DOB have less than 50%.

MOL has put himself in a difficult situation, and I don't see any room for compromise unless Ard Ri Bertie get off his arse and does what needs being done.

Translation: MOL has no choice but to go to plan B. Not good.

Now I think you all will understand why I said I think MOL should have started MyWay instead -- I saw this impasse coming.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 5:53 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 12):
that leaves only about 15% of the stock in other peoples hands

Actually it's a little under 40%

MOL won't consider a MYWAY until there is an open skies between Europe and the US... even then it's a completely different model to FR. On top of that certain things come into effect for example. As far as I know once you go beyond a certain time you have to provide food and at least water and drinks for free.
John Hancock
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 6:43 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 13):
Quoting Poitin (Reply 12):
that leaves only about 15% of the stock in other peoples hands

Actually it's a little under 40%

Let see ( this are from memory, so the could be off)

Gov ------- 25%
ESOPT--- 18% (including their new option)
FR -------- 20%
IALP ------ 5% (including tailwind)
DOB ------ 3

about 32% give or take. That is about 1/3.
You were closer by a bunch.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:03 am

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 13):

MOL won't consider a MYWAY until there is an open skies between Europe and the US... even then it's a completely different model to FR. On top of that certain things come into effect for example. As far as I know once you go beyond a certain time you have to provide food and at least water and drinks for free.

While you are right about the open skies agreement being in place. MyWay would be a completely different animal than FR. There would be all sorts of way to make money in a long haul that you don't have on short haul.

Nobody is interested in getting food on a SH. However, on the LH they can have a "free" snack or buy a meal (E10 extra). And if you aren't happy with the "free" glass of water, well you can buy beer, wine, soda or mixed drinks, for E5 each.

Nobody cares about IFE on SH because you aren't in the air long enough. However, there you are in that seat for 5 to 10 hours, and if you want to plug your computer into a MW airplane for power, that would be E1 per hour. You want ethernet, that would be E10 per hour. If you want a see a movie, that is E5 per show.

IFE is a major money making machine. At this time I am involved with a group that is developing the IFE of the future, and is it a better money maker than slot machines -- which is part of the entertainment package as is video poker.

You want to check your luggage through? Well there is a E10 per bag handling fee.

You gotta think like the man. There is absolutely no reason not to apply some of the general principals of FR and WN to long haul. You have to make changes, which is why you want SH and LH seperate, but there is plenty of opportunity to make money from the PAX once they buy the ticket for E25 between BOS and DUB (taxes and fees extra)
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:25 am

I think this is a hugely exciting prospect and I guess that what annoys me is that EI is so slow in recognising its potential. Australia's Jetstar is starting long haul low cost this month and while I'm sure MO'L is watching this, I'd say he probably has his model sketched out.

On one of the older Irish Aviation Threads, I remember setting out some ideas about this and one of these was how you would "dip your toe" into the LH-loco sector. I envisaged starting with a no-frills Economy alongside a standard Economy. On a 777, the no-frills would be 10 abreast, the meals would be paid for and of course, the IFE too. On the 9 abreast standard economy, IFE would be free (although there could be some services, such as first run new movies, which could be charged for) and then on top of those two you could have either a Premium Executive, with lie-flat beds, OR a premium economy.
(I picked the 777, incidentally, because you can't really differentiate between seats-abreast on a 330/340; 9 abreast in a 330/340 just doesn't work).

I guess, when it comes down to it, the way it needs to be put to EI is this: "listen guys: you've seen how far we've grown in Europe. You see the potential of Open Skies and Customs/Immigration clearance at DUB. You know we can replicate this on t/a routes. Here's the thing: we'd like to do it in partnership with you, but if you say "no", we'll do it anyway. And you really, really, won't like that. Let's face it, your long haul isn't much to write home about. So what's it going to be - forever toddling along and keeping your head just above water, or working with us, and we can make you bigger than you've ever been."

I hope they'll make the right decision, but I think they're going to have to be coaxed. At the end of the day, I want to look at the bigger picture; we have - as we've said so many times on these Irish aviation threads - not just lost, but wilfully cast aside so many opportunities and frankly, if it takes the likes of MO'L to take EI by the neck and throttle it into doing what's best for it, then so be it. Forgive me for being a little coarse, but whatever it takes, for God's sake, don't arse this up. Don't LET IT be arsed up.
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:04 am

Kaitak, I like your idea about the no frills class on the 777 and it could work well for EI as I dont think getting rid of Premier Class would be a good move in fact I think it would be stupid and I doubt EI will do this. Having 10 abreast in the 777 has worked for EK but how would you go about making passengers pay for IFE and first run new movies?
So a Boeing 777 would be...
Premier would be (2-2-2)
Classic Economy (3-3-3)
Economy (3-4-3)
Have I got that right?
Anyway I'm off to bed as I was out with friends all day and ended up outside LHR.  bigthumbsup 
 
planemanofnz
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 9:07 am

Has there been any developments on flights to East Asia? Last I heard, TG were looking at flying to DUB with 777's soon. What about SQ, CX or JL as an add on from AMS, CDG, CPH, MAN or something?

What has happened to Vision Air? That Airline that was going to fly to SIN?
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 2:10 pm

I was wondering that myself, Planeofmanz; that issue seems to have died and what concerns me even more is that, according to the Sunday Times, Aer Lingus's immediate plan is to focus on short haul, trying to build up its presence on existing short haul routes. This seems to me to be a flawed approach and indeed, different from its most recent short haul plan, where it was to focus on flights of 2h or more.

If EI really wants to grow, it should be focusing on long haul - whether its to the US (and we know that's being undermined by regulatory issues) or elsewhere. That's where the difference needs to be, whether or not they want to fight off FR. Aer Lingus's key future growth ambitions and focus needs to be on long haul. The more I see the way things are developing at EI, the more I feel that FR and MO'L need to be involved. The current mgmt is doing nothing to convince me that they see or are capable of exploiting the opportunities of Open Skies. If they can't, it's not just a matter of going along as they have done; they will face severe competition.

Right now, my immediate feeling is: here we go again - a massive and exciting opportunity within grasp and we're about to throw it again. Yawn.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,176-2426416,00.html
 
pelican22
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 4:35 pm

Well done you Guys on the quality and passion of your postings and you are spot on with what EI needs to do or should do regarding its future and you are simply stating the obvious and the most practical course for EI to take.
But this is Ireland, The obvious and practical as regards air transport and civil aviation, always seems to remain elusive.
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 7:47 pm

You're right, Pelican22. I often think that the best way forward is to pick a set of circumstances, set out the best than can possibly happen - and then you'll know the exact opposite is going to happen. Aviation, unfortunately, is pretty much civil service driven in Ireland and that takes in EI; yes, it's now privatised and more independent, but there's still not that fire in the belly, that drive which makes one believe that this is an airline that knows the path ahead.

I see today in the Tribune that some EI pilots have even gone as far as remortgaging their houses, in order to buy more shares and block FR's takeover efforts. That seems like desperation to me - and not terribly rational.

The question now is, what's MO'L going to do? Does he buy more shares (I tend to think not, but I know I'll be proved wrong at some stage), or does he cut and run, but how can he? He cannot sell 1/5th of the airline's value without losing quite a lot on the deal. I can't believe he won't have considered this hypothesis and in any case, he's already said he'll continue as a minority shareholder of EI.

Let's see what next week brings: the next big milestone, subject to whatever shares are traded next week, is EI's rebuttal of FR's offer letter. That's going to be particularly interesting - not just vis a vis FR, but also to show investors that there is a vision there of the future and how EI can take advantage of it ...
 
Ejazz
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 8:50 pm

Anyone with Flight crew contacts at Eirjet or Aer Lingus Pilots Union please?

Can you PM if you have.

Nothing sinister, in fact the opposite, looking for qualified Airbus crew.

Thanks in advance.
Etihad Girl, You're a great way to fly.
 
smokeyrosco
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Sun Oct 29, 2006 10:23 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 21):
I see today in the Tribune that some EI pilots have even gone as far as remortgaging their houses, in order to buy more shares and block FR's takeover efforts. That seems like desperation to me - and not terribly rational.

Hmmm maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.... maybe the pilots may offer their shares to FR in order to make a profit for themselves or maybe the pilots see a chance to take over the airline themselves (doubtful i know). But maybe it's not as simple as them just trying to block the FR bid.
John Hancock
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:09 am

Quoting Shamrock350 (Reply 17):
Kaitak, I like your idea about the no frills class on the 777 and it could work well for EI as I dont think getting rid of Premier Class would be a good move in fact I think it would be stupid and I doubt EI will do this. Having 10 abreast in the 777 has worked for EK but how would you go about making passengers pay for IFE and first run new movies?

Ever hear of credit cards? You are not letting your mind go -- get out of the box and think what is possible. (Hint: think about how satellite TV works). And except for the power wires to each seat and overhead lights, as well as wireless routers, the whole thing is wireless. There is some small amount of fibre optic, as well as the servers in the belly. The weight per seat is under 2 kilos and the servers are about 50 kilos, with fiber optic. Replaces almost all of the IFE wiring, not to mention give the airlines complete inventory control meals, beverages, and other extras. The FAs will hate it because it is an inventory system as well. Ever bottle, can, meal and bag of peanuts will have to be accounted for.

As for levels of service, that is a function of the airline. I for one do not enjoy being treated like cattle so I stay off WN and FR. However, when you are travelling on your own money, you might decide to put up with it for the savings.

And we are talking to Boeing about it, although Airbus doesn't understand. That I find interesting. While our product is just being prototyped, it would save them tons on wiring of the A380.

Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 23):
I see today in the Tribune that some EI pilots have even gone as far as remortgaging their houses, in order to buy more shares and block FR's takeover efforts. That seems like desperation to me - and not terribly rational.

Hmmm maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.... maybe the pilots may offer their shares to FR in order to make a profit for themselves or maybe the pilots see a chance to take over the airline themselves (doubtful i know). But maybe it's not as simple as them just trying to block the FR bid.

They stand an excellent chance of losing 10% to 25% of their "investment".

Too many people making testicular decisions.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 21):
The question now is, what's MO'L going to do? Does he buy more shares (I tend to think not, but I know I'll be proved wrong at some stage), or does he cut and run, but how can he? He cannot sell 1/5th of the airline's value without losing quite a lot on the deal. I can't believe he won't have considered this hypothesis and in any case, he's already said he'll continue as a minority shareholder of EI.

He should have started MyWay instead, but that is just one man's opinion. He is in an interesting spot, one I would not want to be in. You have laid it it very well indeed.

I think he goes to plan "B".

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 21):
Let's see what next week brings: the next big milestone, subject to whatever shares are traded next week, is EI's rebuttal of FR's offer letter. That's going to be particularly interesting - not just vis a vis FR, but also to show investors that there is a vision there of the future and how EI can take advantage of it ...

Yes indeed -- a most interesting week coming up.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
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shamrock350
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 12:38 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 24):
Ever hear of credit cards?

Didn't even think of that, I must have been very tired!  Embarrassment

Well, Aer Lingus flight EI306 landed at NCL at 15.08 according to aerlingus.com hopefully this new route will do fine but I have my doubts.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
Aer Lingus's immediate plan is to focus on short haul, trying to build up its presence on existing short haul routes.

Although I think EI need to be strong in this market I dont think it should be their first priority. We all know EI needs new long-haul routes and to improve the service in both Economy and Premier and to add the success they have had on short-haul to the long-haul routes. Even if EU-US agreement doesn't happen as smoothly as planned there is always growth to the East and to South Africa. Hopefully Aer Lingus are concentrating on long-haul and their plans are still very much focused on improving and expanding.
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 3:35 am

The UK government is expected to announce significant taxes on air travel, with (what appears to be) the intention of dampening - if not completely suppressing demand for cheap flights. One wonders how much this is weighing on MO'L's mind. However, that's one side of it; the other is - how do we reduce the reliance on flying via UK airports for travel onward to Asia; this should serve to hasten the drive towards direct access to Asia. As it is, going through LHR is a nightmare, due to the security situation.

From the point of view of the Irish economy, this has extremely serious consequences, with so many people flying from the UK to Ireland. The threat posed by one of our biggest air transport markets imposing significant taxes on aviation (although we don't know the quantum or method of calculation - and prepare for intense lobbying by the aviation sector) can't be underestimated and even if it is delayed, we need to look at our options and alternatives. More to the point, is this something Ireland should be looking at? It's all very well for the likes of Austria or France to be proposing this, because they're not islands and have extensive land connections with the rest of Europe, therefore air links are, proportionally, significantly more important to us.

That said, we can't deny that something needs to be done to control the threat aviation poses to the environment. However, the current "contribution" to CO2 is "only" 6% and although it is to rise to 40% by 2050, surely the best way to proceed would be to impose a requirement on airlines to reduce CO2 emissions per aircraft to certain amounts by a certain time and also, the requirement to develop new technology; it seems to me (and yes, I'm just a little biased) that the approach of trying to suppress aviation right now is misguided; far better to incentivise it to reduce carbon emissions and develop new technology, so that its economic contribution is maintained while the environmental dangers it poses are reduced.
 
EIBoston
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 10):
The A330 which was grounded in Malaga yesterday with a nosegear problem is still there, which presumably has resulted in more flight delays. Anyone know if EI has leased any temporary aircraft?

Has this plane returned to service yet?
 
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:36 pm

I believe it has now returned to DUB, but not sure if it has returned to service. Anyone know which acft it was?

Also, in relation to Ryanair, I'm just wondering what the effect of new UK govt attack on cheap flights will be; that can't do any good for its share price and it must be a considerable worry to the airline. The UK proposes to add £5 to the price of a ticket and put VAT (at 17%!!!) on jet fuel. That is going to have quite an effect on demand. Not good and you can only imagine the reaction of MO'L. Hopefully, the airlines will lobby intensively. By all means target carbon emissions, but there needs to be some incentive involved.

As far as routes from Ireland are concerned, it's yet another reason to avoid connections via the UK.
 
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 28):
I believe it has now returned to DUB, but not sure if it has returned to service. Anyone know which acft it was?

From what I have been able to track down on the website, it was EI-JFK. It is back in Dublin, not sure if it back in service though. It did the EI104 flight which landed in Dublin on Friday morning and that is usually the aircraft they turn around and send to Malaga from what I remember. I'll have a look later on and see if it operated out of DUB today.

Rgds
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EIBoston
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:28 pm

With the winter timetable now in place does EI use it's 7 A330's everyday still? Can it manage without EI-JFK if it still out of action?
 
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:47 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 30):
With the winter timetable now in place does EI use it's 7 A330's everyday still? Can it manage without EI-JFK if it still out of action?

mm, it is still tight, but they could switch the A332 fleet around with the A333's to allow for some slack on the A333 fleet. For the winter timetable we will see:
DUB/SNN - JFK x 3 (2 x A333 and 1 A332)
DUB/SNN - BOS x 1 (A333)
SNN/DUB - ORD x 1 (A333)
DUB - LAX x 3 times a week (A332)
DUB - DXB x 3 time a week (A332)

The LAX and DXB timings mean that there will always be a spare A332 on the ground, but the BOS and ORD route need the 300 series. The morning DUB-JFK flight is always a 300 aircraft as well, so if the 300 aren't fully booked on the EI111/107/109 flights to JFK, they could switch a 2nd A332 in there and thus live without an A333 for a day or 2.

[Edited 2006-10-30 15:48:15]
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 30):
With the winter timetable now in place does EI use it's 7 A330's everyday still? Can it manage without EI-JFK if it still out of action?

I hope that EI get another couple or three A330s soon. This sort of problem is tearing a hellva hole in the profits with cancellations or wet leasing replacements.

How is EI-DAA behaving nowadays? Has she finally gotten to work again?


I guess the Kabuki dance is in recess. Any news? I didn't see any. Even the stock is turning over as a slow tick, with a penny rise to E2.84
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
pilot21
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:54 pm

Quoting Poitin (Reply 32):
I guess the Kabuki dance is in recess. Any news? I didn't see any. Even the stock is turning over as a slow tick, with a penny rise to E2.84

It' the October Bank Holiday over here Poitin, so the markets are closed in Dublin, so nobody is going to be doing much today.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting Pilot21 (Reply 33):
It' the October Bank Holiday over here Poitin, so the markets are closed in Dublin, so nobody is going to be doing much today.

A getting ready for Samhain? Maybe they will burn MOL in a wicker horse this year. Use to be great fun, on Oct 31 eve, they'd all get smashed on mead and raise hell until the next moonrise.

Of course Saint Patrick put an end to all that.  yes 
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
EIBoston
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:33 am

Thanks Pilot21 for the info.

I was thinking that they could proberly cancel one of the JFK flights if needed but we are now into the mass shopping exodus period before Christmas. I imagine they are pretty full on the JFK and BOS routes for Nov and Dec.

I wonder will customs in Shannon check people this year. Last year despite all the publicity about US shopping trips, customs in Shannon did catch one single person coming back in with loaded suitcases!
 
ei 168
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:07 am

Some news this evening on the takeover

http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/1030/ryanair.html
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:23 am

I'm just wondering how the UK govt's new "green" mood is going to affect FR; the aviation industry is going to bear the brunt of this and in particular low cost carriers, since the environmental lobbies have identified these as the big problem. I can only imagine that MO'L is apoplectic; latest suggestions (and these are, of course, to be considered by HM Treasury in the lead up to the next budget) is a £5 each way surcharge and - much worse - VAT on jet fuel, which would increase fares very considerably. Now, this will inevitably hit FR, so I'm wondering how this will affect its intentions re Aer Lingus; was it even anticipated when FR tabled its bid for EI?

These developments will have an effect on Irish aviation in other ways, not all negatively though. Firstly, it will only accelerate (or read, should only accelerate!) efforts to draw connecting traffic away from LHR. It should also encourage an emphasis to be placed on the most efficient way of using aircraft. Remember that it's not just the UK that's under pressure; we are under pressure to reduce our carbon output by 11% by 2010 under Kyoto (it's actually gone up by 30%), although in Ireland's case, it's a bit unfair to penalise air transport, because you're not then treating all countries equally. It's fine for continental European countries like Austria, for example, to penalise aviation, because they have lots of land links - particularly rail. We don't; we're far more reliant on air transport.

HOWEVER, there are things we can do:
- Since the EU wants us to cut back, will the Transport Commission allow us to change our DUB:SNN ratio from 1:1 to 3:1 next Summer, even if Open Skies is stalled? Even in the absence of permission, can the govt go ahead nonetheless, because this is possibly THE most uneconomic (and therefore, environmentally unfriendly) way to use a widebody aircraft.
- Allow aircraft to be used more efficiently; if we want to get our exports to their markets, provide the runway length for them to do so; that means lengthening DUB's existing runway;
- Develop routes to major Asian hubs (or indeed, just one); much as I admire the development of DXB as a route, exchanging one hub at LHR for another at DXB doesn't seem like the right way to go.
 
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 4:26 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 37):
latest suggestions (and these are, of course, to be considered by HM Treasury in the lead up to the next budget) is a £5 each way surcharge and - much worse - VAT on jet fuel, which would increase fares very considerably.

This would be wonderful news to BA as well. Imagine the "British" Airline going tits up. And, to say the least, it would cut down on all those airplanes crowding LHR. They'd all be over in Ireland filling up on Irish fuel.

I can see this, particularly the VAT on fuel, blackfiring big time.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 37):
These developments will have an effect on Irish aviation in other ways, not all negatively though. Firstly, it will only accelerate (or read, should only accelerate!) efforts to draw connecting traffic away from LHR.

Yeap, that is exactly what would happen -- IF we had a decent airport at DUB with two runways, a useable terminal and a cargo facility.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
bx737
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 5:31 am

Did anyone see the article in Phoenix magazine regarding Aer Lingus/Ryanair deal. (Phoenix Oct 20, p36).

The article says the following:

"The Aer Lingus sell off strategy was flawed from the start and so is MOLs strategy right now....Martin Cullen should source the €120m..required to block the FR bid - or resign.
The EI strategy was done in an incompetent and foolish manner.As of Jun 06 EI had cash of €421m with pre tax profits of €82m pa after depreciation of €61m, meaning EI generates cash flow of €143m pa....EI operates 28 s/h aircraft with the oldest being 8 yrs old. With 20 yr life, there is no need for replacement of these yet, just extra ones to facilitate growth. On t/a the 7 A330s are much older with average age of 9 yrs, all are on operating leases. If DM kept same operating lease methodology and replaced the 3 oldest ones with newer ones, this wouldcost nothing in capital expenditure.....The bottom line is the floatation leaves EI with a net cash surplus of €821M making it a very attractive target..MOLs strategy must also be questioned. He says that FR has €1.2bn in the bank and it would earn more if used to buy EI.....MOL is engaging in a strategy u-turn. FRs model is based on a single a/c type...allowing for more efficient manning, more cost effective maintenance. EI is dependent on Airbus, requiring different training. MOL refers to FRs purchasing power to supply EI fleet, mixing Airbus and 737-800s will lessen the effects of this. MOL also has to deal with labour issues....There is no upside to this for Ireland and the govt should invest €120m to avoid this merger....Cullen should get DM to counter attack by having EI offer to take over FR at say €9 per share all in EI paper"

I have edited the article somewhat but it makes interesting reading and well worth taking a look at, even though what Phoenix suggests will not happen.

A lot of you are referring to MOLs blood on the carpet speech. I have a question. If MOL carries out his threat and blood is spilled, does that mean that he will then lose his investment in EI? If so how will FR shareholders react to €200m of their money being frittered away. Bearing in mind reports of FR shareholders being none too happy at events, I'm sure they will be quite annoyed at that. The throwing of toys out of the pram by MOL should not be tolerated by FR shareholders.

I would also like to know how am I going to make €60,000 out of this deal as the FR offer document says I will? I have about 10,000 shares in EI, is MOL offering me €6 per share, I don't believe so.
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:08 am

Trouble is, you never know who these people are and frankly, anyone who suggests that EI should buy into FR is talking, how shall I put it, nonsense. When people start talking like that, you have to ask questions; is that the kind of strategy airlines should be investing in; buying into the airline that's buying into you? This is the whole problem: no one seems to be seeing the big picture. As regards fleet, he says:

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 39):
.....MOL is engaging in a strategy u-turn. FRs model is based on a single a/c type...allowing for more efficient manning, more cost effective maintenance. EI is dependent on Airbus, requiring different training. MOL refers to FRs purchasing power to supply EI fleet, mixing Airbus and 737-800s will lessen the effects of this. MOL also has to deal with labour issues....There is no upside to this for Ireland and the govt should invest €120m to avoid this merger....

This is wrong on so many levels: there's not a strategy U-turn here; MO'L refers to FR's purchasing power so (presumably) he can replace the 320s with 738s; then there wouldn't be a mixed fleet. There is an upside; just because they can't see it, doesn't mean there isn't one. Again and again, I repeat - LONG HAUL.

When people say there will be blood on the carpet, it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to destroy the airline; that would be madness. The objective should be, as I've said before, to focus on long haul. Sure, get standardisation on short haul; the 320s are new, the 321s not particularly old, so homes can be found for them. If worse comes to worst, trade them back to Airbus for 330s? Airbus is now engaged on a major drive to sell 330s, particularly as the EK 340s have been cancelled. There's sod all chance of selling these as 340s, so they might as well sell them as 330s; even EL AL has been approached and no doubt, EI will be too.

I know I'm probably coming across as an apologist for FR and MO'L and that's the last thing I want to be; EI ranks far higher in my priority list than FR, anyday. Then, of course, it's the bigger, national picture. I still think there is a "win-win" for both airlines and indeed a "win-win-win" for both airlines and the Irish economy, but as long as people blindly going around buying up shares and simply not focused on the road ahead, we're not going to see that. Even if FR's bid fails, there's still room for EI to benefit, but the Phoenix nonsense about EI buying into FR makes absolutely ZERO sense. They have far more important things to be focusing on.
 
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ThrottleHold
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 39):
A lot of you are referring to MOLs blood on the carpet speech. I have a question. If MOL carries out his threat and blood is spilled, does that mean that he will then lose his investment in EI? If so how will FR shareholders react to €200m of their money being frittered away. Bearing in mind reports of FR shareholders being none too happy at events, I'm sure they will be quite annoyed at that. The throwing of toys out of the pram by MOL should not be tolerated by FR shareholders.

Because the man is finally losing it...mentally. Time to shift him off to the asylum and give us all peace.

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 39):
I would also like to know how am I going to make €60,000 out of this deal as the FR offer document says I will? I have about 10,000 shares in EI, is MOL offering me €6 per share, I don't believe so.

He's only trying to bribe the uneducated with large numbers. Anyone with a fraction of wit knows that the cash on offer is way, way lower than that.

[Edited 2006-10-30 23:10:23]
 
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:11 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 24):
Quoting Smokeyrosco (Reply 23):
I see today in the Tribune that some EI pilots have even gone as far as remortgaging their houses, in order to buy more shares and block FR's takeover efforts. That seems like desperation to me - and not terribly rational.

Hmmm maybe we are looking at this the wrong way.... maybe the pilots may offer their shares to FR in order to make a profit for themselves or maybe the pilots see a chance to take over the airline themselves (doubtful i know). But maybe it's not as simple as them just trying to block the FR bid.

They stand an excellent chance of losing 10% to 25% of their "investment".

Too many people making testicular decisions.

Short term loss for a long term gain in my view. A solid investment.
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:25 am

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 39):
I would also like to know how am I going to make €60,000 out of this deal as the FR offer document says I will? I have about 10,000 shares in EI, is MOL offering me €6 per share, I don't believe so.

If your are referring to ESOPT shares, according it EI's number, each ESOPT member will net about E32,500. If your shares are outside of that, then your shares are worth what they sell for minus what you paid.

Quoting Bx737 (Reply 39):
The EI strategy was done in an incompetent and foolish manner.As of Jun 06 EI had cash of €421m with pre tax profits of €82m pa after depreciation of €61m, meaning EI generates cash flow of €143m pa....EI operates 28 s/h aircraft with the oldest being 8 yrs old. With 20 yr life, there is no need for replacement of these yet, just extra ones to facilitate growth. On t/a the 7 A330s are much older with average age of 9 yrs, all are on operating leases. If DM kept same operating lease methodology and replaced the 3 oldest ones with newer ones, this wouldcost nothing in capital expenditure.....The bottom line is the floatation leaves EI with a net cash surplus of €821M making it a very attractive target.

I know the EI number pretty well, and I don't see this sort of pot of gold. EI owns about half of the A320s and leases the rest. There is NOTHING like E821 M in EI. And even it there were, the government owns 25% of the stock.

Bluntly, this story is just that -- a story.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):
This is wrong on so many levels: there's not a strategy U-turn here; MO'L refers to FR's purchasing power so (presumably) he can replace the 320s with 738s; then there wouldn't be a mixed fleet. There is an upside; just because they can't see it, doesn't mean there isn't one. Again and again, I repeat - LONG HAUL.

When people say there will be blood on the carpet, it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to destroy the airline; that would be madness. The objective should be, as I've said before, to focus on long haul. Sure, get standardisation on short haul; the 320s are new, the 321s not particularly old, so homes can be found for them. If worse comes to worst, trade them back to Airbus for 330s? Airbus is now engaged on a major drive to sell 330s, particularly as the EK 340s have been cancelled. There's sod all chance of selling these as 340s, so they might as well sell them as 330s; even EL AL has been approached and no doubt, EI will be too.

EXACTLY SO!

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 41):
Because the man is finally losing it...mentally. Time to shift him off to the asylum and give us all peace.

Crazy like a fox. Just because you don't see what he is doing doesn't make him a nutter. I see exactly what he is doing and although it is cut throat, it is good business.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
bx737
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 40):
but the Phoenix nonsense about EI buying into FR makes absolutely ZERO sense. They have far more important things to be focusing on

I agree on this, I think that that is up there in the realm of fairies and such like, but it is nonetheless an interesting slant on the whole idea.

I also believe that we as a bunch of a.netters have missed for the most part the FR shareholders. What do they make of this? It is true that FR can still make money if the shares in EI fall back to €2.45, but lower than that FR will lose money on the deal. This brings me back to my point about blood on the carpet, he (MOL) has to think of his shareholders and if FR are seen to lose money on this because FR decided to put blood on the carpet by making life awkward for EI he is still going to have to justify his actions to his shareholders. He will have to justify spending €200m on the deal and then proceeding to lose money on it just because their CEO did not get his way and he decided to spill blood on the carpet.

The deal has its plusses and minuses. The ability to cut costs and standardise on a single s/h fleet is one, the ability to grow EIs l/h is another positive. However a big minus is MOL, he has little or no trust of his future staff and he seems to be doing little to instill trust in us (EI staff). His offer contains untruths, a bit worrying when someone wants to take you over. FR management were also found to be unreliable as witnesses by a judge in a court case recently. How can we trust what FR says especially when a judge of the land cannot? Answer we can't.

I think MOL has painted himself into a corner on the take over of EI and now that things are not going his way he is panicking. After all FR has not experienced this before, up to this everyone has rolled over for FR and played dead.
 
Poitin
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:31 am

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 42):
Short term loss for a long term gain in my view. A solid investment.

Assuming FR takes over EI, pumps millions into it, turns it around and makes it profitable -- then may be in five years the stock will be worth E 3.00. It is going to go down and a lot of people, those on margin, will be forced to sell at a loss. Many of those idiots trying to destroy MOL bought on margin. I don't have numbers yet, but that is the rumor. Hopefully they didn't, and they can hold. But if they can't, they will lose big time.
Now so, have ye time fer a pint?
 
pilot21
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:09 am

I think unfortunately we will actually be left in limbo for most of Nov guys. Regardless of what points and counterpoints we put across here, at this stage ESOT/Tailwind, the Govt and DOB have about 46% of the shares and MOL/FR have 19.2%. FR can't move unless the shares move below 2.80, but it has been suggest a few times that FR won't buy the farm if they shares go below that because Brussels prefers acquiring companies to hold less then 20% until they have ruled. Secondly we will have an idea at the beginning of Dec what the EC are thinking. If they ask for more time on the decision, I think there is a chance they will say yes to the move, if they say no, it is game over for everybody.

One point that makes me think the EC will come out against the merger is that the current boss said in a press statement last week that they would look at the effect of the proposed merger on air travel out of Ireland. (Rather then on a European wide basis). If they focus on the near monopoly a combined EI/FR will hold on air travel out of Ireland, then sorry but I think this one gets turned down.

At that stage, I think FR will hold onto their stake and move on, because MOL has been defeated by somebody whom he can't kill (yet)

Just some thoughts, but I think apart from another 1% or 2% being acquired from the EI side of the battle, it will go quiet until December.
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:45 am

Quoting Poitin (Reply 43):
Just because you don't see what he is doing doesn't make him a nutter

You guys on the outside just don't see the internal long term picture.
 
kaitak
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:54 pm

What is the internal long term picture - as far as you can say (bearing in mind company confidentiality etc)? Are you EI or FR?

I appreciate we don't see the internal picture, but I think we can see the external picture pretty well; at the end of the day, the airlines can do what they do, but as I've tried to argue all along, the real world doesn't stop and while EI fights off FR, it seems to be ignoring the fact that once there is a change in Irish-US bilateral arrangements (whether because the overall O/S comes into place or because there's a side deal approved by the EU), EI is going to face extremely tough competition. If it chooses to go it alone, it could keep its head above water, BUT I probably would not be able to take advantage of the full potential that's there and would face an incredibly tough time competing against the likes of AA, DL, CO, US etc, who are going to make life a lot tougher. Remember, this is the global village; they know the potential that's there for EI and the last thing they want to see is FR going on t/a routes; if what it takes to stop this is making life incredibly difficult for EI, they'll do that and remember, Ireland is a very convenient destination for 757s, being "the first stop" across the pond.

On the subject of EU/US issues, you may have heard that the govt has got its fingers rapped on the issue of its overall ability to meet Kyoto commitments; CO2 emissions have gone up by 30% (apparently), whereas they were supposed to go down by 11%. Now, it occurred to me that if one agency of the EU is attacking us for not reducing emissions, while another - due to its intransigence on bilateral issues - is not allowing us to change what must be the world's most inefficient and environmentally unfriendly use of large aircraft, then we will be between a rock and a hard place. In such a situation, surely the govt can say: listen guys, this is BS; this use of acft is environmentally unsustainable and it has to stop. What could the EU do? Could it take the govt to court, because if so, the govt could claim that it has no choice and is simply acting to fulfil its environmental obligations?
 
pilot21
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RE: Gear Up, It's Irish Aviation Thread 18

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:41 pm

Aer Lingus has announced some new routes, and increases in existing frequencies.

Aer Lingus has announced a number of new destinations, new daily services and additional frequencies to its European network. The airline says this brings to 65 the number of short haul routes the airline will operate for Summer 2007.

New routes will see the airline fly from Cork to Manchester from March 2007, Cork to Madrid and Prague from next summer, Dublin to Newcastle and Milan-Malpensa from summer and Dublin to Athens from June 2007.

Aer Lingus says the introduction of the new service to Athens, which will operate three times a week, is a milestone development as it marks the airline's first service to Greece.

Aer Lingus will increase route frequencies to a daily basis from Dublin to Budapest, Geneva, Lisbon, Prague, Venice and Zurich.

Increased frequencies will also be operated on routes from Dublin to Barcelona, Berlin, Bologna, Dubrovnik, Krakow, Madrid, Naples, Nice, Rennes, Riga and Seville. Cork to Birmingham, Faro and London Heathrow will also see increased frequency.


The Cork to Prague and Madrid services, along with the Dublin to Newcastle and Milan routes were announced ages ago (and the Newcastle route has started!) but they were all put into this press release again!

Still nice to see Athens on the map.
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR

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