Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
trex8
Topic Author
Posts: 5677
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:47 am

http://www.aviationweek.com/search/A..._23_2006_p48-51-01.xml&query=747-8
for those with access otherwise page 48 in the print edition this week

it seems that in trying to make the "lengthened" 747-8I able to go 8000nm, they have cut into the uderfloor cargo capacity significantly.fuel has risen from 60125gallons to 64225.
The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity

given the 773ER can take 44 LD3s and A346 42 and even the 744 30, the A380 38, is this "relative lack" of cargo space hindering its sales???
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:54 am

I am sure Boeing weighed the trade-offs with their customers.
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 1):
I am sure Boeing weighed the trade-offs with their customers.

it is a big mistake that they will offer such limited space for cargo....
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:46 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 2):
it is a big mistake that they will offer such limited space for cargo....

If it was such a big mistake, then I imagine the majority if airlines polled would not have chosen the option when Boeing offered it to them.  Wink

Even EK says (for the moment) they want range over payload in the 747, so I expect they'd accept even less underfloor space if it meant the plane could fly the DXB-North American routes they desire it to.  Smile
 
Avianca
Posts: 5377
Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 5:33 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
If it was such a big mistake, then I imagine the majority if airlines polled would not have chosen the option when Boeing offered it to them.

yes with so much orders that Boeing has already on hand for the new 747... Big grin
Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:48 am

Quoting Avianca (Reply 4):
yes with so much orders that Boeing has already on hand for the new 747... Big grin

47 frames and counting! Big grin

Seriously, Boeing has been in consultation with at least 25 airlines. And those consultations include things like payload and range and the trade-offs necessary to achieve one or the other. That Boeing has now formally decided to go with the stretch, even though it reduces payload to maintain an 8000nm range, implies to me that the majority of airlines wanted at least an 8000nm range and were willing to take a payload hit to get it.

And, after all, Boeing may not be required to use the entire space for additional fuel tankage. I imagine there will be multiple ACTs and not just one large one, so airlines that don't need the full 8000nm range could omit one or more ACTs and recover that space for cargo.
 
ha763
Posts: 3201
Joined: Mon Jan 06, 2003 5:36 pm

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:09 am

Considering that the 744 has 5 pallet spaces in the front, while the 748 has 7 pallet spaces in the front, the front of the 748 will have an increase of 4-6 container spaces over the 744. In the rear, the 748 has 2 more container spaces. So the 748 would have a 6-8 increase of container space over the 744.
 
widebodyphotog
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 1999 9:23 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:50 am

Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter):
it seems that in trying to make the "lengthened" 747-8I able to go 8000nm, they have cut into the uderfloor cargo capacity significantly.fuel has risen from 60125gallons to 64225.
The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity

I have not read the text of the article, I'll have to wait until tomorrow, but if the crux of it is that the longer 747-8 passenger has less underfloor space it is patently false. The shorter 747-8 had an underfloor config of 6 M size pallets forward and 18 LD1/LD3 or 5 M size pallets + 2 LD1/LD3 aft and bulk at 520cu ft. The new, longer version has 7 M size pallets forward, same as 747-8F, and the aft configuration is unchanged, and total underfloor capacity has increased by 4 LD1/LD3 to 40 from 36 according to Boeing.

The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.

747-8 Old vs New


-widebodyphotog

[Edited 2006-10-30 00:08:59]
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:53 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7):
The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.

I was wondering if Boeing would try something like that. Thanks for the confirmation.
 
trex8
Topic Author
Posts: 5677
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Mon Oct 30, 2006 10:15 am

if both diagrams are drawn to scale, the new longer version gains one pallet forward and loses 2 containers aft!
is the fact that they are not showing toilets or galleys moved "upstairs" an indication there are no takers for that configuration??
 
trex8
Topic Author
Posts: 5677
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:53 pm

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7):
The additional fuel capacity comes from ~3,600USG increase in tail fuel not cargo hold fuel tanks. The new fuel capacity is 63,829USG again, according to Boeing.

in the AWST article there is a table supposedly sourced from Boeing which shows the fuel capacity

"new"- 747-8I 64225g , 747-8F 60925
"old" - 747-8I 60125, 747-8F 56825


BOEING 747-8 SPECIFICATIONS

(Intercontinental and Freighter)

CURRENT CHARACTERISTICS PREVIOUSLY*
Passengers 467 450
Cargo (Intercontinental) 5,705 cu. ft. 7,085 cu. ft.
7 pallets, 16 LD-1 containers 36 LD-1s
678 cu. ft. bulk storage 785 cu. ft.
Cargo (Freighter) 30,177 cu. ft. (total) 30,170 cu. ft.
24,327 cu. ft. (main deck) 24,327
34 96 X 125 in. pallets same
5,850 cu. ft. (lower hold) 5,843 cu. ft.
12 96 X 125-in. pallets same
2 LD-1 containers same
Engines Four GEnx-2B67s same
66,500 lb. maximum thrust same
Maximum Fuel Capacity Intercontinental: 64,225 gal. 60,125 gal.
Freighter: 60,925 gal. 56,825 gal.
Maximum Range Intercontinental: 8,000 n.m. same
Freighter: 4,475 n.m. same
Maximum Takeoff Weight 970,000 lb. 960,000 lb.
Typical Cruise Speed Intercontinental: Mach 0.855 same
Freighter: 0.845 N/A
Dimensions
Wingspan 224 ft. 7 in. 224 ft. 9 in.
Overall length Intercontinental: 250 ft. 8 in. 243 ft. 6 in.
Freighter: 250 ft. 8 in. 250 ft. 2 in.
Tail Height 64 ft. 2 in. 63 ft. 6 in.
Interior Cabin Width 20.1 ft. 20 ft. 1 in.

*November 2005

Source: Boeing
 
widebodyphotog
Posts: 885
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 1999 9:23 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Trex8 (Reply 10):
in the AWST article there is a table supposedly sourced from Boeing which shows the fuel capacity

I would expect better research and production from AWST however...

The current Boeing ACB has a lot of shortcomings in a variety of areas and is lacking on specific details.

Here is a highlight of some changes:

*Revised empennage with increased tail span and re-contoured fin.

*Forward cabin length increased by 80 inches (2.03 meters)

*Range reduced by 270nm to ~8,000nm with 467 passenger load (98,000lb payload)

*Fuel capacity increased with full span tail fuel tank.

*Fwd hold cargo cap. increased by two pallet positions or 4 LD1/LD3.

*Potable water tanks have been moved aft displacing some bulk hold space

*Aft hold 16 LD1/3 or 5 plt w/opt for 18 LD1/3 or 5 plt + 2 LD1/3 with reduced bulk compartment volume.

*Bulk volume option 678 cu ft or 330 cu ft

Here are some detailed specifics side by side:

787-8 Update comparison


-widebodyphotog
If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 27604
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:25 am

These charts are all really helpful, Widebodyphotog, for data points if not analysis (though I personally find them valuable for that, as well).

s there a place where you make them all available for download? I've been fortunate enough to download the ones you make available via posts, plus I have found some more using Google, but I am not sure I have "the complete set". Big grin
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15147
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:10 pm

Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter):
The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity

If this is from the article, it is wrong. Period.

Boeing had this mistaken 7000 cu ft number on the website for a very short time a while back, and I noticed it then, too, but it was since corrected.

6400 cu ft for the new 748i is indeed an increase over the previous iteration and the 744.

Further, the 744ER had even less cargo space, so the 748i with greater range has significantly more cargo space than the older 744 that approached that range.

But, obviously, due to the old design compared to more modern jets, there is less room for pallets in the length of the body than say a 777 or 340 series.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
trex8
Topic Author
Posts: 5677
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2002 9:04 am

RE: 747-8 Underfloor Cargo Capacity

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:53 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
Quoting Trex8 (Thread starter):The previous shorter body 747-8I was supposed to have 7085cu ft, 36 LD1s and 785 cu ft bulk , now the lengthened one only has 5705 cu ft -7 pallets and 16 LD1 - so maybe 30 LD1 equivalent- and 678 bulk. 747-8 F has 5850cu ft underfloor capacity
If this is from the article, it is wrong. Period.

well their website is still "wrong" then as its gives the same cargo and fuel capacity as the AWST article
http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/747-8_fact_sheet.html

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos