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Aloha717200
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A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:28 pm

The design of the A350 has gone through several changes. Are we now at a point where we can say that the A350 is no longer a 787 competitor, but rather, Airbus' idea of a future 777 replacement?

Looking at timing alone, the A350 may not enter service intil 2013/2014, maybe later if there are delays. Considering what happened to Lockheed when their L-1011 came into the picture a little too late, I personally don't see the A350 truly being a competitor to the 787 just based on EIS alone. Airlines that need 767 replacements, by and large, won't want to wait so long when they can have a 787 sooner.

Granted, the L-1011 had a whole different set of circumstances that ultimately lead to its demise, but overall, the lack of availability helped Douglas get ahead, and the DC-10 became the success.

I feel even if the A350 ended up being a superior design in terms of efficiency, it still would not sell more than the 787 at this point IF the A350 was built for the same mission as the 787.

I think Airbus realises this too, and that's why we are now seeing an A350 that is not so much a 787 competitor, but a 777 replacement. The A350 seating capacity is no longer directly competitive with the 787. The A350 is a lot bigger now.


So why do we continue on with "787 vs A350" when really it should be "777 vs A350"?

The 787 has the market to itself. The debate over whether EK will order 787 or A350 is a little like debating whether EK will order 767s or 777s. That's what it boils down to in my eyes. the A350 is no longer a direct competitor with the 787.

Perhaps the A350 will, eventually, enjoy the benefits that the 787 is enjoying now, but in a different market segment. Perhaps, in 2014, it will be Boeing that is trying to "catch up" with Airbus to find a 777 replacement.


All this, of course, is not factoring in the potential 787-10, which still has not been launched.



What are your thoughts?

[Edited 2006-10-31 06:30:19]
 
WingedMigrator
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 2:43 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):

So why do we continue on with "787 vs A350" when really it should be "777 vs A350"?

Probably because the A350 is in between the 787 and 777, broadly speaking about the entire families. There is overlap at both ends.
 
jacobin777
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 3:00 pm

Here is something of interest.


"An announcement of the change to the all-composite airframe is expected early in November."

"Last week, Airbus insiders told this website that the company has decided to opt for a composite fuselage for the A350 to better match the 787 and leapfrog the 777-200ER even though the latest revision will push the type's entry into service to at least 2014."

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=6936
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scouseflyer
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:47 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 2):
"Last week, Airbus insiders told this website that the company has decided to opt for a composite fuselage for the A350 to better match the 787 and leapfrog the 777-200ER even though the latest revision will push the type's entry into service to at least 2014."

Is ATW considered a reliable source?
 
Rj111
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 6:56 pm

Can we at least wait to see some solid specs before we decide how big the damn thing is.  banghead 

The chances are its going to be sligtly larger the the 787 but will still compete directly and indirectly with the entire 787 line.
 
bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 7:30 pm

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 4):
The chances are its going to be sligtly larger the the 787 but will still compete directly and indirectly with the entire 787 line.

IF what Airbus has on its website the XWB only in its -8 form will compete with one of the offerings in the dreamliner lineup (ie. the 787-9) . Nothing is positioned as a competitor to the 787-8 and the 787-3 . If boeing decides to pursue the 787-10 then the XWB-9 will compete against it . By all accounts the XWB is an attempt to compete with the 787 and 777 with one family of airbus and there isnt really anything wrong with that approach IMO .
 
Thorben
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 8:37 pm

Could somebody please explain to me why the A350 is bigger than the 787? I mean, they are roughly the same size:

A358 and 787-8, both around 57 or 58 meters long, means they'll have around the same cabin length, that of the A350 being a little wider. If you put 8-across rows in both, they'll have almost the same number of pax. If you put 9-across rows in both, the same thing. Only way to achieve a major difference would be to put 8-across in one and 9-across into the other.

A359 and 787-9, 64 resp. 63 meters long, almost the same cabin width, basically the same size, or not?

The A350-1000 is different, a 73-73 meters long plane would compete with the 773, although the airbus would have a smaller cabin, because the T7 is wider.

What strikes me is that the 787-9 is 63 meters long, therefor it has the same size as the 772, just with a less wide cabin.

I can't understand why the 787 is regarded as a 767 replacement. The 763 is only 55 meters long an has only 7-across rows. That is way smaller than the 787-8. Leave alone speaking about the even shorter 762.

Can anybody enlighten me?
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widebodyphotog
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 9:00 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
Looking at timing alone, the A350 may not enter service intil 2013/2014, maybe later if there are delays. Considering

By that time there will be more than 200 787's in operation...By that time the replacement or significant redesign of 777 will be well underway...Honestly, I don't see the A350 as a competitor for either current Boeing product. Possibly it will compete with the tail end of the passenger 777 production but the proposed A350F will not even be as capacious as an MD-11F and as such it will not compete directly with 777F.

Hopefully for Airbus they can carve out a market with a product that offers something unique or they risk staying an also-ran 10 years hence. It also seems to me to be a shame that Airbus is targeting an airplane that will be more than 20 years old in 2014 rather than focusing on the upstart 787. They made a similar mistake previously by focusing the A340-600 on the 747-400 replacement market and they are now getting their clocks cleaned by the 777-300ER 2:1. This is the wrong direction IMO as Boeing will not sit on their hands so to speak, with the 777 during the next 8 years...



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zvezda
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 10:47 pm

Quoting Aloha717200 (Thread starter):
The design of the A350 has gone through several changes. Are we now at a point where we can say that the A350 is no longer a 787 competitor, but rather, Airbus' idea of a future 777 replacement?

Any Airbus product that competes with either the B777 or B787 competes with both of them. They are in the same market space.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
I can't understand why the 787 is regarded as a 767 replacement. The 763 is only 55 meters long an has only 7-across rows. That is way smaller than the 787-8. Leave alone speaking about the even shorter 762.

Can anybody enlighten me?

This is just an artifact of internal Boeing politics. The 7E7 was originally meant as a B767 replacement. However, the state of the art, the negotiations with the airlines, and the economics all pushed it upwards in size. However, Boeing would never have approved it as a B777 replacement. It was sold within Boeing as complementing the B777 so as not to draw opposition from the B777 division. All the dismissals of the hypothetical B787-11 are based on neither technical nor economic factors, but on corporate politics and aesthetics.
 
atmx2000
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:14 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
I can't understand why the 787 is regarded as a 767 replacement. The 763 is only 55 meters long an has only 7-across rows. That is way smaller than the 787-8. Leave alone speaking about the even shorter 762.

It does seem sized more like a 764 replacement. But given the fancier premium cabins common nowadays, the capacity for many airlines will be close to that of the 763. The important thing is that the absolute performance of the 787 will exceed that of the 763 at the level of trip costs, while providing the ability to generate additional revenue through higher capacities.
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jacobin777
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:32 pm

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 3):
Is ATW considered a reliable source?

Yes..especially the particular writer...

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7):
Hopefully for Airbus they can carve out a market with a product that offers something unique or they risk staying an also-ran 10 years hence.

IIRC, the previous CEO (the one who lasted ony a few months) stated that Airbus will be behind for the next 10 years..lets hope they build a decent product...

Cheers..
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widebodyphotog
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Tue Oct 31, 2006 11:39 pm

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
I can't understand why the 787 is regarded as a 767 replacement. The 763 is only 55 meters long an has only 7-across rows. That is way smaller than the 787-8. Leave alone speaking about the even shorter 762.

Bottom line is that for anything the 767 can do the 787 can do it at dramatically reduced operating cost. On both a specific and total basis.


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dank
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:08 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 8):
This is just an artifact of internal Boeing politics. The 7E7 was originally meant as a B767 replacement. However, the state of the art, the negotiations with the airlines, and the economics all pushed it upwards in size. However, Boeing would never have approved it as a B777 replacement. It was sold within Boeing as complementing the B777 so as not to draw opposition from the B777 division. All the dismissals of the hypothetical B787-11 are based on neither technical nor economic factors, but on corporate politics and aesthetics.

Bingo. As it is has crept up in size, it easily competes with the 777 for many missions. Obviously doesn't compete completely yet.

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 11):
Bottom line is that for anything the 767 can do the 787 can do it at dramatically reduced operating cost. On both a specific and total basis.

I wouldn't be surprised if we see a Y1 that will handle many 762 missions at much better cost. The 787-3/8 only really matches based on cost (where it will equal or be slightly cheaper at total costs). It is a substantially bigger plane and if airlines could get a hold of a 250 seater with correspondingly better economics, I have a feeling US domestics, for example, would be all over it.

Cheers.
 
787engineer
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 4):
Can we at least wait to see some solid specs before we decide how big the damn thing is. banghead

The chances are its going to be sligtly larger the the 787 but will still compete directly and indirectly with the entire 787 line.

Airbus has already released rough sizes and pax capacities for the A350 XWB. You can check their website for the info. The A350 was slightly larger (capacity wise, not fuselage diameter), and the A350 XWB will be significantly larger.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):
Could somebody please explain to me why the A350 is bigger than the 787? I mean, they are roughly the same size:

A358 and 787-8, both around 57 or 58 meters long, means they'll have around the same cabin length, that of the A350 being a little wider. If you put 8-across rows in both, they'll have almost the same number of pax. If you put 9-across rows in both, the same thing. Only way to achieve a major difference would be to put 8-across in one and 9-across into the other.

Airlines don't buy planes by length, they buy them by pax capacity and range. The smallest A350 model, the -8 is listed at 250 pax, while the -8 for the B787 is listed at 210-250. A nominal 9Y layout shown in the 787 airport compatability brochure only seats 237. The first A350XWB model, the -9, will compete against the 777-200 (and possibly the 787-10), while the A350XWB-1000 competes against the 773ER, although it is a little smaller. The A350 covers all (if you count the A350XWB-1000 vs. 773ER) of the 777 models (772ER, 772LR, 773ER) and only half of the four (if the 787-10 comes to fruition) 787 models.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:14 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 13):
Airlines don't buy planes by length, they buy them by pax capacity and range.

There is about an 8% difference in cabin floor area between the 787-8 vs. the A358 (favoring the A358). The A359 has about a 6% advantage in CFA over the 787-9 and the A3510 has about a 5% advantage over the 787-10.

The A359 is at an 2% disadvantage in space to the 772. (The 787-10 has a 4% advantage). The current-spec A3510 is at a 7% disadvantage to the 773ER.

So in general, they are pretty close to each other, as Thorben notes.
 
zschocheimages
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:45 am

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 787 also being touted as a possible 777 replacement? If not now, in the future there would be variations of it that would be meant for 777 replacement. Just look at the 737, it was built soon after the 727 and ended up being the replacement. You also could argue that eventually it replaced some 757's.
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting ZschocheImages (Reply 15):
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the 787 also being touted as a possible 777 replacement? If not now, in the future there would be variations of it that would be meant for 777 replacement.

The 787-10 will offer a bit more interior space then the 777-200 family and the 787-11, if launched, would offer a bit less interior space then the 777-300 family.
 
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:26 am

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 3):
Is ATW considered a reliable source?

Yes ATW is a very trusted source.

Quoting Thorben (Reply 6):

Didn't Airbus make the A350-900 a B787-8 competitior, the A350-10 a B787-9 and B777 competitior which leaves the A350-800 with no competitior?
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bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:50 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 17):
Didn't Airbus make the A350-900 a B787-8 competitior

How is the A350-900 a 787-8 competitor ?? The 787-8 is a 210-250 category which in all practicality is a <250 PAX category ! There is no XWB in that PAX range . The 787-9 competes better with the A350-8 although the 787-9 is bigger in PAX by only 3% ( whilest the A350-8 offers 12% more pax then 787-8). The A350-8 is a 270 PAX capability and far more comparable to the 787 offering of >250 PAX category which is the -9 version Dreamliner .

The no.s for the XWB according to Wikipedia and through various PR material released are as follows ( in 3 class )

A350-800 – A 270-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service in the first quarter of 2013.
A350-900 – A 314-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service mid-2012.
A350-1000 – A 350-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service in the first quarter of 2014.
A350-900R – Ultra-long-range version (Boeing 777-200LR competitor) to enter service around 2015.
A350-900F – Freighter (Boeing 777F competitor) to enter service around 2015.
 
787engineer
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 18):

A350-800 – A 270-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service in the first quarter of 2013.
A350-900 – A 314-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service mid-2012.
A350-1000 – A 350-seat aircraft (in three-class layout) to enter service in the first quarter of 2014.
A350-900R – Ultra-long-range version (Boeing 777-200LR competitor) to enter service around 2015.
A350-900F – Freighter (Boeing 777F competitor) to enter service around 2015.

For comparison purposes:
B787-8 - A 210-250 seat aircraft (3-class) to enter service in mid-2008
B787-3 - A 290-330 seat shorter range aircraft (3-class) to enter service in mid-2010
B787-9 - A 250-290 seat aircraft (3-class) to enter service in late 2008
B787-10 - (if launched) a 290-300 seat aircraft (3-class) likely to enter service mid-2012.

Original A350 (non-XWB)
A350-800 - A 250 seat aircraft available first half of 2010
A350-900 - A 300 seat aircraft available late 2010
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:11 am

And in the area of cabin floor areas (which is helpful to know how much space you have to put in seats, lavs, closets, and galleys):

B787-8: 223.3 sq meters
B787-9: 256.6 sq meters
B787-10: 291.0 sq meters

A350-800: 240.8 sq meters
A350-900: 274.3 sq meters
A350-1000: 307.8 sq meters (assumes 6 meter stretch)
 
bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:11 am

I dont mind airbus taking the extra 2-3 years however what really bothers me is that the A350-8 is marginally heavier then the 787-9 however the 787-9 can carry 10 more PAX ( 244 tons to 245 ) . The A350 in its comparitve aircraft is heavier , has a wider section , uses the same engine , carries 10 fewer PAX.......

Now I can see why some airlines and influential people are wanting even more then the XWB !!
 
Rj111
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:15 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 13):
Airbus has already released rough sizes and pax capacities for the A350 XWB. You can check their website for the info. The A350 was slightly larger (capacity wise, not fuselage diameter), and the A350 XWB will be significantly larger

It depends how you're planning to fit both aircraft. That is why i'm reluctant to compare sizes through the manufacturors seating estimates - which are already a bit skew as it is. I think Boeing are assuming 8-across in their plans whereas a lot of airlines are fitting 9. Airbus are no doubt assuming 9 as the aircraft is slightly wider.

Also note that although the XWB was wider, one of or both actually got shorter, i can't remember off the top of my head though which one.

What we need to see are cabin lengths.

Rj111.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:20 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 21):
I dont mind airbus taking the extra 2-3 years however what really bothers me is that the A350-8 is marginally heavier then the 787-9...

Do we know the manufacturer OEWs for the A350XWB family? I haven't seen any, but if the data is known, is it available publicly?

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 22):
It depends how you're planning to fit both aircraft. That is why i'm reluctant to compare sizes through the manufacturer's seating estimates...What we need to see are cabin lengths.

That is why I like to use cabin floor area, since it takes into account both the length and the width of the cabin. So it allows one to compare an airline's actual seats, lavatories, galleys, and closets head-to-head. Also, Airbus has noted the A350XWB cabin will not have tapered ends, so you don't need to give up seats in the back due to the walls closing in.
 
bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:23 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 22):
What we need to see are cabin lengths.

I agree to a degree . If someone can provide Cabin Volume figures it would be great for comparison , however we have to look at other factors aswell as you rightly point out . The 8 Abreast and 9 Abreast seating configurations ( 3 class) also need to be looked at. Moreover we also need to look at MTOW . If you compare the MTOW of the A350-8 and the 787-8 you'll find that the 787-8 is 13% lighter whereas the A350-8 is more in tune with the MTOW weight of the 787-9 ( a under .2 tons heavier) although the PAX count on the 787-9 is greater by around 10 . Operational weights also need to be paid equal attention as well as host of other things .
 
787engineer
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:25 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 22):
I think Boeing are assuming 8-across in their plans whereas a lot of airlines are fitting 9. Airbus are no doubt assuming 9 as the aircraft is slightly wider.

The airport compatability brochure shows a "typical" 9-across layout seating 237 pax in a 787-8.

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/airports/acaps/787brochure.pdf

The 210-250 pax capacity range for the -8 includes 8Y and 9Y. Comparing floor space it seems like Airbus puts more seats in for roughly the same areas, maybe for better CASM numbers?  stirthepot 
 
walter747
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:25 am

if airbus gets moving at the pace they are now the 787's are going have been in service for a while when they roll out the 350.
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:28 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 24):
If someone can provide Cabin Volume figures it would be great for comparison...

Cabin square footage would be more appropriate (unless one wants to stack customers vertically as Airbus was claimed to have considered), and I do have the figures for all the planes. I posted the 787's and A350's in Reply 20.
 
bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
Cabin square footage would be more appropriate (unless one wants to stack customers vertically as Airbus was claimed to have considered),

I meant Cabin square areal !! Unless Ryanair goes widebody we wont....... Wink

Quoting Stitch (Reply 27):
and I do have the figures for all the planes. I posted the 787's and A350's in Reply 20

That comparison leads to the A350-8 being more closer to the 787-9 then the 787-8 ( only by a close margin though ) .

PAX still cannot be neglected IMO , if you are to look at the 787-8 it is more of a under 250 PAX category and with a MTOW of about 217,000Kg whilest the A350-8 is about 13% heavier and is more of a 270 seater ( dont know which Config. 8 or 9 abreast for both A or B) . the OEW should reflect similar difference in weights IMO although i could be wrong .
 
Rj111
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
That is why I like to use cabin floor area, since it takes into account both the length and the width of the cabin. So it allows one to compare an airline's actual seats, lavatories, galleys, and closets head-to-head. Also, Airbus has noted the A350XWB cabin will not have tapered ends, so you don't need to give up seats in the back due to the walls closing in.

Cabin floor area is better than seat count but can sometimes be misleading. For example an A320 and a 737 have slightly different cross section sizes. so say the two had the same cabin length the A320 would have more floor area, but in reality they would seat the same number of pax. Though floor area can add in a kind of "luxary" value to eash seat. Also on an A380 for example a lot of the floor space can no be used due to wall curvature.

My personal preference is to multiply cabin space * Y-class cross-section to give a figure. Then sometimes i'll mentally calibrate for F and J depending on the models and/or airlines being compared.

But whatever floats your boat....
 
bringiton
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:41 am

I agree , the Floor area is only helpful to a degree , for example sometimes the Width limits you to only 9 abreast and nothing more , unless you can go 10 abreast the more width will do nothing more but add comfort in a 9 abreast configuration .
 
Rheinbote
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 4:48 am

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 7):
It also seems to me to be a shame that Airbus is targeting an airplane that will be more than 20 years old in 2014 rather than focusing on the upstart 787.

Well, it's the best Airbus can do given the circumstances. I hope the 350XWB will at least come close to a prospective 787 "Block 2014". Placing the 350XWB in between 787 and Y3 bands should give a little breathing space before Y3 arrives.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:03 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 29):
Cabin floor area is better than seat count but can sometimes be misleading. For example an A320 and a 737 have slightly different cross section sizes. so say the two had the same cabin length the A320 would have more floor area, but in reality they would seat the same number of pax.

Very true. Alas, there is no "hard and fast" rule to use to compare planes. A combination of CFA and seat counts (preferably customer and not manufacturer) would be most accurate, short of an actual physical floorplan for each model using the same cabin components.

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 29):
My personal preference is to multiply cabin space * Y-class cross-section to give a figure. Then sometimes i'll mentally calibrate for F and J depending on the models and/or airlines being compared.

 thumbsup 
 
787engineer
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 5:28 am

Quoting RJ111 (Reply 29):
Cabin floor area is better than seat count but can sometimes be misleading. For example an A320 and a 737 have slightly different cross section sizes. so say the two had the same cabin length the A320 would have more floor area, but in reality they would seat the same number of pax. Though floor area can add in a kind of "luxary" value to eash seat. Also on an A380 for example a lot of the floor space can no be used due to wall curvature.

Alright, here's how I see it: The 787-8 has 223 sq. meters, and the 787-9 has 256, while the A350XWB-800 has 240 sq. meters. The A350-800 is essentially right in between the 787-8 and -9 in terms of floor area. A 787 with 240sq. meters of area should seat 250 pax (derived from typical capacities of 210-250 for -8 and 250-290 for the -9). So for 240 sq. feet 787 - 250 pax, and 240 sq. ft A350XWB - 270 pax. The A350XWB should in fact seat fewer pax since some of that floor area is used up with a wider fuselage. Actually, now that I think about it, a typical 9Y 787 with 240 sq. feet should seat 250-270, assuming the upper half of that 40 pax range for the 787 models represent 9Y configs. Either way it's clear that the A350XWB's "typical pax configurations" will have a greater percentage of Y seats and/or less pitch to fit in more seats.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:10 am

Quoting 787engineer (Reply 33):
Either way it's clear that the A350XWB's "typical pax configurations" will have a greater percentage of Y seats and/or less pitch to fit in more seats.

Historically, Airbus uses higher numbers of Economy seats and lower numbers of First and Business seats then Boeing in their "manufacturer baselines".
 
walter747
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 8:18 am

by the time the A350 enters service it will be in a class of its own
Hussel, Hussel, Husel, Grind, Grind, Grind
 
Airbus340
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RE: A350 - No Longer A 787 Competitor?

Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:04 am

2014 for the possible A350... when that date does come...it's too many years to speculate...!

I think it'll be good only to talk about the A380 and the B787 for now...for the A350, let "time go by"...that's a lot of "water to go under the bridge"!

Regards,

Airbus340

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