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EGCC777LR
Topic Author
Posts: 82
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:16 pm

What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:58 am

Hi Everyone,

I was wondering what makes Airlines change Aircraft to newer planes when the one's they are replacing have so many miles left in them. A recent post regarding EK talked about them updating 777-200's which can't be much older than 10 years for newer 777's. Do Aircraft get to a certain point where they are due Re-furbisment work that is exceptionally expensive? If so, do company's sell used Aircraft before that work needs doing? Does that mean that Airlines picking up second hand aircraft have to pick up a large repair bill before they start using there 'New Aircraft'. I presume that Aircraft have some form of log book showing hours flown and maintainence.

Does anyone know which airline changes fleet most often?

Regards

EGCC777LR  Smile
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atlaaron
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting EGCC777LR (Thread starter):
Do Aircraft get to a certain point where they are due Re-furbisment work that is exceptionally expensive? If so, do company's sell used Aircraft before that work needs doing?

Yes. There are C and D checks that are necessary and can be quite expensive. I always thought D checks were due at 20,000 hours, but someone else on here would know much better than I do. Sometimes airlines will get rid of an aircraft at that point, but not just for that reason but usually because they have a long term plan of removing that type of aircraft.

Many times after an aircraft type is done carrying passengers it will be moved on to a cargo airline where rules are not quite as stringent. Still stringent so the keyword there is QUITE.

Also fuel efficiency is strongly being looked at now for obvious reasons. So even if an aircraft type is not very old, it may be cheaper to replace it with a new type based on fuel savings alone.

Hope this helps!

As far as who replaces their fleet the most often, I have no idea but can almost guarantee it is not a US based airline.
 
IAHFLYR
Posts: 4266
Joined: Sat Jun 25, 2005 12:56 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:39 am

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 1):
As far as who replaces their fleet the most often, I have no idea but can almost guarantee it is not a US based airline.

Why not? CO has a very new fleet, WN is pretty young as well, Air Tran has nothing but fairly new airplanes as does JetBlue......so, why don't you think that?
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atlaaron
Posts: 975
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:30 pm

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 2:07 pm

Well yes they have new fleet but how often have they REPLACED them? That is what he is asking. B6 has not been around long enough to have needed to replace any, AirTran I think has basically replaced one and that is when they got rid of the Valujet planes . . . WN would probably be the only possibility.
 
SkyexRamper
Posts: 1952
Joined: Sun Mar 27, 2005 12:17 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:42 pm

Don't forget the over thinking idiots of CEOs...look at USAir and United...airbus and boeings. But yes USAir is a wreck.
Good Luck to all Skyway Pilots! It's been great working with you!
 
futurecaptain
Posts: 1918
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2006 1:54 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:06 pm

Quoting ATLAaron (Reply 1):
As far as who replaces their fleet the most often, I have no idea but can almost guarantee it is not a US based airline.



Quoting Iahflyr (Reply 2):
Why not?

Perhaps SQ?

Quoting EGCC777LR (Thread starter):
I presume that Aircraft have some form of log book showing hours flown and maintainence.

Yes, everything is recorded just like pilots record flight hours, maintanance keeps a written record of repairs done on a plane. I've heard stories of some older planes getting quite alot of interior space filled up by this paperwork when an a/c is sold due to needing to transfer the paperwork to the new owner. Never seen it myself though.
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PH-TVH
Posts: 52
Joined: Sat May 26, 2001 1:07 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:18 pm

Well if an airline, for example easyjet, can get a bunch of A319's almost for free, I think the choice is simple....

Otherwise they would never have gone with the A319, due to the fact they recently upgraded their fleet to 737-700's. It's a economical nightmare te switch from an boeing dominated fleet to an airbus dominated fleet (maintenance, spare parts etc.), except when you get the planes almost for free....

Ok, back on topic...
Just plain and simple ecomonics would be the "plastic" answer
However, politics are playing a huge role to, these days.
 
hiflyer
Posts: 1274
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 1:38 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:36 pm

Figure 15-20 years in the current airline environment as the standard fleet life. Some longer some less but 20 has been a number used frequently in various circles. Why replace? Economics. Start with the cost of maintaining an older aircraft versus the improved performance of a newer generation aircraft...then figure in lease/purchase/loan costs...forecasted costs such as fuel/crew/training. The beancounters decide...grin! As of now..for the most part...the aircraft of the 60's and 70's are out of the main fleets (DC10, L1011, early 747, 727, 737-200). The main fleets are either shedding or ordering to replace the 1980's cycle of frames...some smaller carriers with deep pockets are even replacing 1990's frames with more efficent aircraft thereby getting max return out of the older aircraft.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:41 pm

Quoting Ph-tvh (Reply 6):
Well if an airline, for example easyjet, can get a bunch of A319's almost for free, I think the choice is simple....

That is relative, do you have a source..... also if you want to buy an ac for list price feel free to do it, remember the "free" price alone makes no sense to buy that aircraft... unless you do not have a business plan.........to stay in business.

Look at AC they are changing over to the T7 & 787 now, why? AB has not "much" to offer in the twin segment (330 only) right now until the 350 will arrive and their 67's are not getting any younger....... oh for sure they have gotten a "good" deal from B (whatever your definition is of "good,free, cheap")

Cheers,
 
CRJ900
Posts: 2397
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:48 am

RE: What Makes Airlines Change A/C Type?

Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:47 am

Quoting Ph-tvh (Reply 6):
Well if an airline, for example easyjet, can get a bunch of A319's almost for free, I think the choice is simple....

Otherwise they would never have gone with the A319, due to the fact they recently upgraded their fleet to 737-700's. It's a economical nightmare te switch from an boeing dominated fleet to an airbus dominated fleet (maintenance, spare parts etc.), except when you get the planes almost for free....

Fair use excerpt from feature story on Air Berlin in Airliner World magazine, November 2006, p80:

"Like easyJet before it [Air Berlin], the carrier believed that the costs associated with introducing a new fleet [A319] would be overcome by the additional independence offered by operating a dual fleet. "I think for a certain size of airline it is good to have a dual fleet as you are more independent for the future. When you are looking for additional capacity on short-term lease, sometimes Airbuses are on the market and other times Boeings are. Sometimes it is easier to find pilots with a Boeing rating and sometimes those with an Airbus rating, so you are more flexible for the future," said Joachim Hunold."

Reference: Maslen, Richard (2006) Air Berlin Low fares with frills, Airliner World magazine, November issue, p80, Key Publishing Ltd, Stamford, UK

I agree. Fleet commonality is less important when you order in such huge amounts. Like Hunold points out, it's not only about maintenance but also availability of frames and crew at shorter notice plus getting nice discounts from competing manufacturers. I think these were big deciding factors that made NWA order both the CRJ900 and E175...
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