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jdevora
Posts: 227
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:41 am

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 9:22 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 49):
Ok lets drop the conspiracy theories and look at the facts. The figures show that in the past 5 years there have been more 777's built than A330's or A340's. If you combine the A330/340 production list it only out numbers the 777 by about 150 aircraft. That's 2 planes compared to 1, plus the first A330/340s entered service a couple years before the 777. The future looks very bright for the 777 while the A340 numbers have dwindled. The A330 remains a seller.

Not questioning your numbers, just to point out that the A340 and the A330 share the same production line, that means that even when they are 2 different planes Airbus can't build 2 times as many of them as Boeing 777s because every 330 build means a 340 that can't be build (and the way around)

Cheers
JD
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:08 am

Quoting Jdevora (Reply 50):
Not questioning your numbers, just to point out that the A340 and the A330 share the same production line, that means that even when they are 2 different planes Airbus can't build 2 times as many of them as Boeing 777s because every 330 build means a 340 that can't be build (and the way around)

Cheers
JD

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Quoting Shenzhen (Reply 42):
Anyway... I don't think we will see either Company make "huge" gains on the other in backlog numbers, especially when comparing future orders, to what Airbus were able to accomplish last year, with A320 sales.

I think you are right, they will probably be close to neck and neck for years to come, although it looks like Boeing has taken a slight advantage. Embraer looks to be taking the third spot once occupied by McDonnell Douglas.
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
BoomBoom
Posts: 2459
Joined: Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:26 am

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:58 pm

Quote:
Airbus said its share of orders had shrunk to about 36 percent by value, from 45 percent last year, as rival Boeing sold more mid-size and larger jets.

http://www.yorkdispatch.com/business/ci_4704514

36% by value is getting into "danger territory". They need to do something quick, like launch the A350.
Our eyes are open, our eyes are open--wide, wide, wide...
 
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N328KF
Posts: 5968
Joined: Tue May 25, 2004 3:50 am

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 51):
I think you are right, they will probably be close to neck and neck for years to come, although it looks like Boeing has taken a slight advantage. Embraer looks to be taking the third spot once occupied by McDonnell Douglas.

Credit to Embraer for what they have achieved, but they have a long way to go before they are the level of third that McDonnell Douglas occupied...and MD only occupied that slot very briefly on their slide from #2 to oblivion. When Embraer has a widebody, then they will be what MD was.
“In the age of information, ignorance is a choice.”
-Donny Miller
 
TrijetsRMissed
Posts: 1983
Joined: Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:15 pm

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 4:28 pm

Quoting N328KF (Reply 53):
Credit to Embraer for what they have achieved, but they have a long way to go before they are the level of third that McDonnell Douglas occupied...and MD only occupied that slot very briefly on their slide from #2 to oblivion. When Embraer has a widebody, then they will be what MD was.

I wouldn't say they are at the level McDonnell Douglas was at during the 1990's, before the takeover. Not even close. I am saying they are next behind Boeing and Airbus, yes much farther behind. But when you think about it, who else is out there? The Russian manufacturers can't compete. I hope that's more clear. Btw, do you think Embraer will build a widebody someday?
There's nothing quite like a trijet.
 
baroque
Posts: 12302
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:15 pm

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 5:38 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 30):
That I do not know, but the US could always haul Airbus before the WTO on an "anti-dumping" charge. Big grin

Seriously, the low production cost of the Chinese line might have been the reason for Airbus to set up the line since they will always be able to undercut Boeing on sale price while still making money.

Seriously as well Stitch, the numbers of A32x to be made in China are, AFAIK, small and likely to be taken up by Chinese orders. If they are any cheaper to produce, the Chinese will likely expect to receive them at that lower lost base. So I cannot see that Chinese manufacture is going to have a major effect on the overall cost structure. For example, engines or other parts made for the Chinese production are going to cost the western manufacturers the same as if they were destined for Toulouse. Yes??
 
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Stitch
Posts: 27247
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Baroque (Reply 55):
Seriously as well Stitch, the numbers of A32x to be made in China are, AFAIK, small and likely to be taken up by Chinese orders. If they are any cheaper to produce, the Chinese will likely expect to receive them at that lower lost base. So I cannot see that Chinese manufacture is going to have a major effect on the overall cost structure. For example, engines or other parts made for the Chinese production are going to cost the western manufacturers the same as if they were destined for Toulouse. Yes??

I should have been clearer - I expect Airbus to use the Chinese line to undercut Boeing for narrowbody sales to China, and not in general as you are correct that line cannot produce enough planes to make a real dent in the world market.
 
dhefty
Topic Author
Posts: 587
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:04 am

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:32 am

Quoting TrijetsRMissed (Reply 51):
I think you are right, they will probably be close to neck and neck for years to come, although it looks like Boeing has taken a slight advantage.

For this year it looks like Airbus will produce around 25 more Narrow-bodies than Boeing, with Wide-bodies being 50-50. This news just released by Airbus allows us to consider 2007 and 2008:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ospace/2003439872_webairbus20.html

Based on this information we can see that Airbus plans to deliver 384 NBs in 2007 and 406 in 2008. Those are some very aggressive numbers. It will be interesting to see if Airbus can meet those projections. Just what Boeing projects is still unknown, but certainly 30 per month or more is not out of the question.
 
sstsomeday
Posts: 821
Joined: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:32 pm

RE: Has Boeing Evened The Narrow-Body Race?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:48 am

Quoting Beech19 (Reply 43):
I agree... but airbus did claim that using the "number of aircraft produced." I was just playing devils advocate

Sorry - I missed that.
I come in peace

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