717fan
Topic Author
Posts: 1980
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2001 10:51 am

Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:29 am

Only Swiss and BA offers flights from Zurich to UK Destinations? Why aren't there more airlines? Any chance to see more UK Carriers in Zurich?

Thanks
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 3:58 am

Only two airlines but with many flights to three different airports in London: LX to LHR and LCY, BA to LHR and LGW. The competition between these two airlines is hard (different alliances) and the prices not too high. I am not sure if any other airline is interested. If yes, then not to London but probably other cities.

[Edited 2006-11-22 19:59:50]
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:02 am

Perhaps its government regulations also plays a factor that limits the number of airliners between the two countries?
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Perhaps its government regulations also plays a factor that limits the number of airliners between the two countries?

No not at all. Switzerland has with the EU so called bilateral agreements on many topics incl. civil aviation. Therefore any Swiss airline is regarded like an EU airline and any EU airline like a Swiss airline. That means that Swiss airlines are allowed to fly to any point within the EU and any EU airline from any to any point in Switzerland with as many flights as they like.
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:12 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 2):
Perhaps its government regulations also plays a factor that limits the number of airliners between the two countries?

The European Union has created a free open market for European airlines flying within the EU. While Switzerland is not part of the EU, it signed an agreement with the EU to be part of this free open market.

You can read more about it here:
http://www.europa.admin.ch/ba/expl/factsheets/e/luftverkehr.htm
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
BA
Posts: 10514
Joined: Fri May 19, 2000 11:06 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:13 am

Oops...sorry ZRH, looks like you beat me to it.  Smile
"Generosity is giving more than you can, and pride is taking less than you need." - Khalil Gibran
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:15 am

BA: I beat you but you have the link.  Wink . Thanks.
 
SR100
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:43 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:19 am

Who else should fly?

Zurich used to have EasyJet flights to Luton, but then they claimed that taxes are to high and ZRH is not suited for a LCC operation, hence stopped serving ZRH. And ZRH is not the airport for a carrier such as Ryanair.

Who is left on the British side out of any of the five London airports? bmi from LHR? Makes no sense as a Star Alliance Member.

Thomsonfly from LTN, or Monarch? Yes, they have winter ski tourist flights, but this is not what you are looking for.

VLM from LCY? Not with this jet competition by LX.

In the 1950s to the early 1970s, ZRH used to have BOAC flights on the way to/from Africa and the Far East. Let's revive this idea and bring Virgin Atlantic to ZRH on their way to... No serious idea. And we used to have Dan Air flights, but today, there is no other carrier than BA out of London.
Flown all types and variants of Airbus, Boeing, Lockheed, Bombardier, DC, Embraer, Fokker, ATR, plus BAe146-1/2/3, Britannia, Caravelle, Comet, Concord, CV440/990, M404, Herald, Avro, Trident-1/2/3, IL-18/62, SWM, Viscount, VC-10, Tu-104/134/154, YS-11
 
Knightsofmalta
Posts: 1754
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:51 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:49 am

A very long time Air Europe flew from Gatwick to ZRH until they went bust. Air UK used to fly with the F. 100 to Stansted but that wasn't a success and even BMA, as they were then still called operated a number of daily flights to LHR, including a night-stop in ZRH. But they gave up pretty soon too.
 
gkirk
Posts: 23397
Joined: Thu Jun 15, 2000 3:29 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:06 am

Understand BMIR have applied for EDI-ZRH 2 x Daily slots, using ERJ145s
When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8348
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:14 am

ZRH - UK has been a graveyard for many many carriers - with many trying the route, and all failing, with the exception of BA and LX....

Virtually everyone else (BD, easy, Klmuk, Go and many others) have left - driven out by high prices - poor service, and snotty passengers....

This isnt helped by the "unique" Zurich attitude - of big and expensive, which has driven many many carriers elsewhere.

So, whilst ZRH lives in the aviation '80's the carriers have moved onwards, cut their losses, and ZRH has stagnated.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:36 am

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 10):
So, whilst ZRH lives in the aviation '80's the carriers have moved onwards, cut their losses, and ZRH has stagnated.

Could you please explain. I don't understand at all. ZRH is a very modern, attractive airport, which is doeing well.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:09 am

Unique management simply does not realize that many (if not most) people simply want to fly from A to B for a price as low as possible. They don't want to see Gucci, Bally, Rolex stores at the airport- and don't want to pay for it.

Zurich is not doing bad, mainly due to LX increasing the network. But they definitely are way behind other big European airports such as Madrid or Munich who seem to be more flexible in offering different products (Madrid sees new bases of easyJet and Ryanair while Munich sees an increasing presence of low fare airlines in general).

One reason is also that Swiss is doing price dumping in ZRH as soon as a new carrier wants to open a route (that's one of the reasons why Helvetic never flew succesfully).


Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ZRH
Posts: 4371
Joined: Tue Nov 16, 1999 11:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:28 am

Zurich is actually by fare not the most expensive airport in Europe. LHR for example is more expensive and others too. I try to find a list in the internet, I once saw. Though Zurich is not cheap. I am not sure if ZRH even wants airlines like Ryanair here. I actually don't miss them. There are not too many good slots left.
 
Ari
Posts: 116
Joined: Mon May 16, 2005 5:08 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:35 am

IIRC...don't SQ still fly their B744s to MAN via ZRH like 2x per week?!

aRi
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting ZRH (Reply 13):
Zurich is actually by fare not the most expensive airport in Europe. LHR for example is more expensive and others too.

I did not say it's the most expensive airport. Just too expensive for the majority of low cost airlines. And Heathrow isn't famous for their low cost friendliness either  Wink

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
User avatar
LTU932
Posts: 13672
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 12:34 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:10 am

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 3):
No not at all. Switzerland has with the EU so called bilateral agreements on many topics incl. civil aviation. Therefore any Swiss airline is regarded like an EU airline and any EU airline like a Swiss airline. That means that Swiss airlines are allowed to fly to any point within the EU and any EU airline from any to any point in Switzerland with as many flights as they like.

So basically, Switzerland is part of the EU Open Skies treaty, right?

Quoting Ari (Reply 14):
IIRC...don't SQ still fly their B744s to MAN via ZRH like 2x per week?!

Yes, they do but that will end sometime next January I believe, when the plane only makes the turnaround for ZRH-SIN and when SQ introduces the 77W.
Sometimes the only thing more dangerous than a question is an answer. - Ferengi Rule of Acquisition 208
 
donder10
Posts: 6945
Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2001 5:29 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:12 am

There were rumours of AB starting ZRH-STN flights but few rumours come true!
 
Knightsofmalta
Posts: 1754
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:51 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:17 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 9):
Understand BMIR have applied for EDI-ZRH 2 x Daily slots, using ERJ145s

Now that would be really cool. Any idea when they'd be starting?
 
TurkishWings
Posts: 1244
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 5:57 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:40 pm

The Swiss Low-Cost (!!!) airline Helvetic flew ZRH-LGW for a while. I flew in one of their F-100s. They introduced very cheap promotional fares for the first few weeks so I only paid about 80 CHF for a return trip in 2004.

It's funny no one remembered but U2 also flew from ZRH to UK for a good while. The airport was too expensive for them so they stopped....
Coffee - Tea or Me?
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 19):
It's funny no one remembered but U2 also flew from ZRH to UK for a good while. The airport was too expensive for them so they stopped....

Taxes were only one part of the easyJet story in ZRH. Another reason is that low fare airlines are interested in a minimum ground time. They simply lose too much time in Zurich on the ground. easyJet also realized better market perspectives in nearby BSL, in specific an attractive but underserved market.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:58 pm

Quoting TurkishWings (Reply 19):
The Swiss Low-Cost (!!!) airline Helvetic flew ZRH-LGW for a while

Correct. After a while they switched from LGW to LTN (iirc), but that didn't pay off either so they dropped the route completely.

Quoting Donder10 (Reply 17):
There were rumours of AB starting ZRH-STN flights but few rumours come true!

They offer the route, connecting via DUS or HAM (can't remember), but their connection-fares are not competitive anymore, they used to be.
 
StarGoldLHR
Posts: 1346
Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 1:29 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Thu Nov 23, 2006 7:46 pm

Zurich isnt a major tourist destination with british people...

not having the chavvy image and being quite expensive to visit, means the alcoholarmy goes somewhere else..

hence the budgets stay away.


Personally, I like it this way Zurich is a fantastic city and I love it.

Fares for BA and LX are pretty reasonable, in fact much more competitive than other places in europe served by RyanAir etc..
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
thediplomat
Posts: 77
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:59 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:15 am

The whole "unique" name really explains everything there is to know about ZRH - the airport spent over 800k francs on a brand that adds nothing to the airport.

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 11):
ZRH is a very modern, attractive airport, which is doeing well

Doing well, at the expense of passenger growth - and my wallet. NO thanks.

EasyJet, Europe’s largest low-cost carrier, chose to stop flying to Switzerland’s premier airport, which represented the most expensive airport in its network. The Zurich to London Luton route was profitable, but revenues had been impacted by a precipitous 132-percent passenger fee hike at the Zurich airport over the past two years. When easyJet began offering flights to Zurich, passenger fees were assessed at Sfr. 15.50 (USD13); effective September 1, the airport will charge Sfr. 36 (USD29) per passenger.

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/inimr-ri.nsf/en/gr127066e.html

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 12):
Unique management simply does not realize that many (if not most) people simply want to fly from A to B for a price as low as possible. They don't want to see Gucci, Bally, Rolex stores at the airport- and don't want to pay for it

Exactly - you have it in one... ZRH has forgotten who is boss - and think they are - a very arrogant management team.

Quoting ZRH" class=quote target=_blank>ZRH (Reply 13):
Zurich is actually by fare not the most expensive airport in Europe. LHR for example is more expensive and others too

ZRH is amongst the most expensive major airports in europe.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 20):
They simply lose too much time in Zurich on the ground

Expensive, and inefficient also!
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:52 am

I agree, unique's management is ignorant and selfish, but as long as they are profitable i cant blame them. And as for Easyjet, i dont particularely dislike not seeing them here. AB has proven that you can operate successfully out of ZRH, even as an LCC.

If you dislike ZRH that much, just avoid it, one passenger more or less wont hurt them.

As for ZRH's terminal facilities, they are just great, countless of TR's on this website suggest the same.

Good night

edited for spelling

[Edited 2006-11-23 22:57:00]
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 6:56 am

Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
Doing well, at the expense of passenger growth - and my wallet. NO thanks.

Agree but we as pax have not to much of a choice.....

Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
They simply lose too much time in Zurich on the ground

That is a general problem with the bigger airports just like WS in Canada, what do you think where they loose less time: YYZ or YWG??
If BSL would not have been there U2 would not have much of a choice??

Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
Exactly - you have it in one... ZRH has forgotten who is boss - and think they are - a very arrogant management team.

Could not agree more  bigthumbsup 

Cheers,
 
ScottishLaddie
Posts: 2309
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 8:30 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting Gkirk (Reply 9):
Understand BMIR have applied for EDI-ZRH 2 x Daily slots, using ERJ145s

Indeed they have, and so have Flyglobespan for a daily B736! That's the suprising one.

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 18):
Now that would be really cool. Any idea when they'd be starting?

Beginning of timetable Summer 07.
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:20 am

Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
Expensive, and inefficient also!

Regardless of the criticism of ZRH, it's still by far my preferred connecting hub. Much less chaos and confusion than other major hubs. I connect at ZRH at least once a month and have never had anything but friendly, efficient service, and have made several 10 minute connections when flights were late. Try doing that at LHR, CDG or FRA. I don't find fares from ZRH uncompetitive with other hubs with more low cost carrier oeprations. In fact, fares from ZRH on LX are often lower than from GVA which is a major EasyJet hub. EasyJet is now the largest operator at GVA with about 30% of the traffic, ahead of LX.

Both ZRH and GVA are much more user-friendly airports than the huge megahubs.


Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
EasyJet, Europe’s largest low-cost carrier, chose to stop flying to Switzerland’s premier airport,

I am fairly sure that Ryanair is Europe's largest low-cost carrier.
 
Knightsofmalta
Posts: 1754
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:51 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:32 am

Quoting Thediplomat (Reply 23):
Expensive, and inefficient also!

I don't know what your hang-ups with ZRH airport are about, but the one thing ZRH definitely isn't is inefficient.

Other than that, the LCC are not the measure of all things you know and just because they don't fly to a particular airport doesn't necessarily mean it's a crap or unattractive airport. I mean hey, there may not be any LCC operating into Heathrow either but a lot of other carriers would bend over backwards just to get the good slots there.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:52 am

ZRH is certainly less efficient than other airports around. Compare it to BSL and look at ground times. It will allow you to fly another flight each day. Or look at curfews (not unique's fault though). easyJet flies during the night in BSL and arrives back at 5:30 in the morning when ZRH is still sleeping.

Or look at your own company which switched to a complete low fare product in BSL, currently selling most tickets for 14.50 CHF per way (you pay 3-4x this amount for the same flights ex ZRH). And now look how many hours the BSL Avros will fly as per January compared to the Avros based in ZRH...

Low fares are the future of air travel in Europe. You can only reach low fares with a low cost base, that means flying to airports who charge not too much and it means that your fleet must be in the air as much as possible.

You are completely right that this is not the whole thing. Some of the network carriers will be around too in the future. And I'm quite happy as it is right now in Switzerland where all three major airports seem to do well and don't hurt each other too mcuh.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
sv2008
Posts: 591
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 11:05 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 7:54 am

I flew LTN-ZRH in 2000 on easyjet - I wondered why they stopped.

(I wasn't actually going to Zurich, we had a 2 hr train ride to where we were going. We were actualyl gonig to a place near BSL ironically)

When I was there the whole place was a giant construction site for some reason, they were digging up a runway or 2 I think (or something).

Apart from that it seemed OK, not a huge airport but better than most. The thing I remember most was pushing the luggage trolleys up the escalators, which was slightly surreal.

[Edited 2006-11-23 23:54:56]
 
Knightsofmalta
Posts: 1754
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2005 10:51 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 8:01 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 29):
ZRH is certainly less efficient than other airports around. Compare it to BSL and look at ground times. It will allow you to fly another flight each day. Or look at curfews (not unique's fault though). easyJet flies during the night in BSL and arrives back at 5:30 in the morning when ZRH is still sleeping.

That's exactly my point. For airlines like Easyjet or Skyeurope the move to BSL definitely made perfect sense because the whole operation at BSL can better be adapted to suit their need. But that doesn't make everything else crap!

Other than that, as you say, while the LCCs may be expanding, it's not as though they'll make the traditional flag carriers disappear completely. At least not all of them.
 
swissy
Posts: 1481
Joined: Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:12 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:24 am

Quoting Knightsofmalta (Reply 31):
ZRH is certainly less efficient than other airports around. Compare it to BSL and look at ground times. It will allow you to fly another flight each day.

Perhaps we should compare similar size of airports to begin with, or how efficient would BSL be if they would be the same size......

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 27):
Regardless of the criticism of ZRH, it's still by far my preferred connecting hub.

Same for me  Smile

Arrogance and ignorance can be found at almost any airport... and yes there are some at ZRH............

Cheers,
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting Swissy (Reply 32):
Perhaps we should compare similar size of airports to begin with, or how efficient would BSL be if they would be the same size......

Then take Stansted, Gatwick, Munich, Barcelona, Madrid etc. , all airports who serve more pssengers than Zurich does. But all airport seem to attract much more LCCs than ZRH does...

Regards,
RJ100

[Edited 2006-11-25 12:24:36]
none
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8348
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:24 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 24):
but as long as they are profitable i cant blame them

= the zurich problem. Profitable at our (the passengers) expense, rather than trying lower costs, improving the ground time, etc.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 29):
Or look at your own company which switched to a complete low fare product in BSL, currently selling most tickets for 14.50 CHF per way (you pay 3-4x this amount for the same flights ex ZRH). And now look how many hours the BSL Avros will fly as per January compared to the Avros based in ZRH...

Yet again, LH group are being predatory against the LCC's. The Avros arent suitable as a low cost airline - ask the many carriers that have tried them. Even SR tried a LCC 146 operation into Stansted for a while, and failed within weeks.

Quoting Swissy (Reply 32):
Arrogance and ignorance can be found at almost any airport

Sorry to say it, but ZRH are known in the industry to be amongst the most self righteous of all European airports, and have a take it or leave it attitude with the carriers. This has critically damaged their passenger growth, and was the fatal blow to SR. The difference between the attitude of ZRH and competing airports (BSL, MUC, etc) is amazing.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 24):
AB has proven that you can operate successfully out of ZRH, even as an LCC.

Just because AB operates a base in ZRH - doesnt mean they are successful, or profitable!
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:40 pm

What is it with all the LCC hype? Quite frankly i'm more than happy we don't have any of the likes of U2 or FR here. LX, BA, AF etc. all offer great fares out of ZRH. Not once have i thought of travelling to BSL just to save some € 30 for a ticket eg. to CDG or LON on U2 compared to LX or AF (If you add up the CHF50+ train fare to BSL). Another point is that most uf U2's flights leave early in the morning which makes it close to impossible to actually catch a train to make these flights.
If there was strong LCC competition out of ZRH they'd probably lose the mainline carriers operating these routes, so I don't see why ZRH should start attracting LCCs.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
Just because AB operates a base in ZRH - doesnt mean they are successful, or profitable!

If they were not, they would have pulled out ages ago.
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:43 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 35):
Quoting BestWestern (Reply 34):
Just because AB operates a base in ZRH - doesnt mean they are successful, or profitable!

Hear hear, BestWestern! Fact is, we have no idea whatever whether a route or a base is profitable. And we won't.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:48 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 36):
Fact is, we have no idea whatever whether a route or a base is profitable. And we won't.

Would be nice to find out though, because i'm almost sure if they were not profitable, they would have pulled out ages ago rather than adding new routes each year.
 
[email protected]
Posts: 16616
Joined: Sat Jan 13, 2001 6:29 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:54 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 37):
Would be nice to find out though, because i'm almost sure if they were not profitable, they would have pulled out ages ago rather than adding new routes each year.

That is a fair argument, but then so is putting more resources to hopefully earn a profit while spreading the risks. Besides, if X route was unprofitable but still with potential, they would probably try to make it profitable through change rather than instantly cutting it; hence, an unprofitable route might not immediately disappear.
"Everyone writing for the Telegraph knows that the way to grab eyeballs is with Ryanair and/or sex."
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:59 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 38):
if X route was unprofitable but still with potential, they would probably try to make it profitable through change rather than instantly cutting it; hence, an unprofitable route might not immediately disappear

I agree, but seeing as AB has been here from almost the beginning of their operations, they must have tried that in case they did not earn any money from the very beginning, and if they had failed, they would have pulled out. Or am I just being blind?
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 37):
Would be nice to find out though, because i'm almost sure if they were not profitable, they would have pulled out ages ago rather than adding new routes each year.

Well, they just dropped FRA (4x daily) and FCO (daily). They have only routes to some important German destinations and Mallorca. Now they start to operate holiday flights to places far away with no competition but only 1-2x weekly.
It is hard to build up a classical low fare product in ZRH. Taxes high, ground times too high and then Swiss which dumps their prices as soon as something smells like competition.

Regards,
RJ100
none
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:06 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 40):
Well, they just dropped FRA (4x daily) and FCO (daily)

Which are both major European hubs, so that might not be solely because of ZRH.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8348
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:50 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 35):
If they were not, they would have pulled out ages ago



Quoting [email protected] (Reply 38):
That is a fair argument, but then so is putting more resources to hopefully earn a profit while spreading the risks. Besides, if X route was unprofitable but still with potential, they would probably try to make it profitable through change rather than instantly cutting it; hence, an unprofitable route might not immediately disappear.

There is also the issue of what the shareholders may think. Pulling a hub would make them feel edgy, and cause a massive drop in shareprices - Air Berlin are in the "look we can grow outside of Germany" mode at present - any pull back now would not look good.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 35):
What is it with all the LCC hype? Quite frankly i'm more than happy we don't have any of the likes of U2 or FR here. LX, BA, AF etc. all offer great fares out of ZRH.

That was the attitude in Ireland 15 years ago, and in spain 5 years ago... Its the ZRH attitude also. You describe a LCC as if it was a bum or junkie... The average LX BA AF fare is considerably higher than a LCC.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8348
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:55 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 35):
AF ....offer great fares out of ZRH

Amazing that AF dont even fly to ZRH using AF mainline equipment... its just too expensive and probably the only major European commercial capital that doesnt have AF mainline service.

I suppose you dont want the French either?

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 41):
Which are both major European hubs, so that might not be solely because of ZRH.

Id blame the airline - why would you want to fly on a german airline, when you can fly Deutsche Swissair!

[Edited 2006-11-25 14:04:55]
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 9:57 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 42):
The average LX BA AF fare is considerably higher than a LCC.

It is not, considering all the additional costs like travel costs of just getting to the airport which they fly out of, which is mostly located miles away from the actual city, plus food/beverages etc.

But i've never liked LCCs anyways so i'll just leave it at that.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:02 pm

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 44):
It is not, considering all the additional costs like travel costs of just getting to the airport which they fly out of, which is mostly located miles away from the actual city, plus food/beverages etc.

Ehm sorry, but I wouldn't call BSL miles away from everything. And the same goes for Madrid, Barcelona etc.

Cheers
RJ100
none
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8348
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 45):
And the same goes for Madrid, Barcelona

RJ the nerd is right - madrid is miles away from Zurich!  Smile

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 44):
It is not

I keep forgetting that LX have average fares just as low as Ryanair and Easyjet.... Silly me, and so do BA and AF.

Quoting ZRHnerd (Reply 44):
But i've never liked LCCs anyways so i'll just leave it at that

I'm glad, as you dont have much choice in Zurich due to the airport attidude to growing traffic.

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 40):
Well, they just dropped FRA (4x daily)

Watch the LH/LX fares go up up up.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:10 pm

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 45):
Ehm sorry, but I wouldn't call BSL miles away from everything. And the same goes for Madrid, Barcelona etc.

What about LTN, Frankfurt-Hahn, Charleroi, Tampere, the list goes on. And yes, BSL IS considerably far away from ZRH, actually as far away that it is impossible to make all the early morning departures on U2.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 43):

Id blame the airline - why would you want to fly on a german airline, when you can fly Deutsche Swissair!

What a smart comment, congratulations.
 
RJ100
Posts: 3904
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2000 1:37 am

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:07 am

@ZRHnerd: Switzerland is a large city. Compare it to London where traffic is split between various airports. People from BSL travel to ZRH to take flights there and people from ZRH travel to BSL to take flights. If it doesn't suit you you have the right not to do so of course. It's what we call a free market but I'm really glad people from ZRH more and more have a good alternative in BSL.  Smile

As for LTN etc., it's a cozy airport. Try it out! You'll reach London centre comfortable and it doesn't take more time than from LHR  Wink


Take care,
RJ100
none
 
ZRHnerd
Posts: 830
Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 8:20 pm

RE: Why So Few Airlines On ZRH-UK?

Sun Nov 26, 2006 12:13 am

Quoting RJ100 (Reply 48):
As for LTN etc., it's a cozy airport. Try it out! You'll reach London centre comfortable and it doesn't take more time than from LHR

Yeah i've been in LTN, was forced to fly on U2 because my class decided to do so  Wink But that was a few years back, ive heard good things about LTN ever since the refurbishment was finished, but back then it was a nightmare.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 46):
RJ the nerd is right - madrid is miles away from Zurich!

Aah another smart comment, keep them coming, quite entertaining Big grin

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos