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LY777
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Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Fri Nov 24, 2006 11:52 pm

Why did Austrian switch from the A340 to the B777?
Do they still have A330s in their fleet?
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
briguy1974
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:01 am

Simple... The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..
 
na
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:02 am

They inherited the 777s from Lauda Air (in whose livery the Triple Seven looked fantastic). Maybe Swissair was even knocking at their door before Austrian decided to give a way the A340s. Two/three years ago Austrian planned to dump the 777s if I remember right.
 
na
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:10 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..

The first thing is right as the 777s are more densely packed and use less fuel, the second is rubbish in my mind. My own experiece is the total opposite. The difference is small, but to the advantage of the A340.
 
osiris30
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:14 am

CASM (in a nutshell). The 777 is currently best of breed in the A340 segment. Plus the future resale value is likely better. Dump the 340s while they still have some value.

@chrisba773er:

ROFLMAO!

(Posted from mobile device please forgive typos)
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Rj111
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:17 am

They only had a couple of A340s and one was a -200 IIRC which isn't a particulartly good plane. When they merged with Lauda who had 777s they decided to simplify the fleet by moving out the A340s and ordering another 777.
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:20 am

Quoting HiJazzey (Reply 11):
ERJ170,

I recommend you look up this word: Sarcasm

It's okay.. I was using Sarcasm too.. you know how we dang Americans are...
Aiming High and going far..
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:21 am

Seriously though - I think the 777s are a good fit for OS - their 767s will do the shorter long haul stuff and OS will get good utilisation rates on its 777s because of the sector length they use them on. CASM will be a little bit lower on the 777, and residual value will play a part. OS's A340s are beautifully looked after and in lovely condition, and will get a much higher resale price at the moment than in perhaps three years and later when the 787s and A350 start displacing A343s and they become much easier to get hold of.

I dont think theres anything between the two in terms of pax comfort generally - I personally prefer the A340 because its quieter, and I think a bit smoother, but then I fly an awful lot. Most people dont know and dont really care. The Lauda 777s are much better appointed inside and have better PTVs and seats in Y-Class than the A340s so that may have been a factor.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
briguy1974
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:11 am

CHRIS Go to the pub have a pint and maybe you will see the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type. The prohibitive cost of fuel makes the A340 vs. T7 comparison ridiculous..I am not an Airbus basher. Just stating a simple fact. They compete for the same market and the T7 just makes more money per segment.
 
CHRISBA777ER
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:29 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 14):
CHRIS Go to the pub have a pint and maybe you will see the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type. The prohibitive cost of fuel makes the A340 vs. T7 comparison ridiculous..I am not an Airbus basher. Just stating a simple fact. They compete for the same market and the T7 just makes more money per segment.

Bri - refer to my post immediately above yours, explaining my view on the point in hand as a professional airline analyst.

I agree with what you say as regards the fuel consumption issue vs the 777, but your post suggests that you have a rather polarised view on the issue, and I assure you there is a great deal more to it than your "Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type" comment. Please try not to be so condescending next time.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
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Vasu
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:44 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 14):
the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type.

How on earth can you generalise so much? Yes, some choose the 777 over the A340, but some don't...
 
briguy1974
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:44 am

Thought you were another European Boeing trasher ignoring the issues airlines are dealing with in this age. Your post was not posted above mine when I sent mine. Probably because of my airlines slow internet connection...
 
PlaneHunter
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:53 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
Simple... The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..

The comfort aspect is debatable - while the B777 cabin is and feels more spacious, the 2-4-2 (Y) and 2-2-2 (C) configuration on the A330/A340 beats 3-3-3/3-4-3 and 2-3-2 on the B777.

But that was probably the last aspect OS managers thought about...


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
 
Johnny
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:53 am

@Briguy1974
"the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type."

Airline like AA,DL,CO for example?

Airlines not only try but make money, often fly the A340...VS,IB,SQ,LH,SK,etc...

OS will not make money with ANY airplane available today.This is the sad truth!
 
columba
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 14):
CHRIS Go to the pub have a pint and maybe you will see the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type. The prohibitive cost of fuel makes the A340 vs. T7 comparison ridiculous..I am not an Airbus basher. Just stating a simple fact. They compete for the same market and the T7 just makes more money per segment.

You can not generalise:
You are right in so far that the T7 has better economics than the A340 and that many new operators choose the T7 over the A340. Also there are some airlines that decided to get rid of their A340 in favor for the T7 (AC and AUA).
Facts also are that there were customers for new A340s this year (Finnair) and that you could not find any used A340 being stored at the moment.
Virgin and Air Canada have no problem to find other operator for their used A340s. SAA is looking for additional A340 so they seem to be satisfied.
IB, LH, Swiss and others are also happy with their A343s.
Air Berlin - gone but not forgotten
 
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ERJ170
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:01 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):
Airlines not only try but make money, often fly the A340...VS,IB,SQ,LH,SK,etc...

Now that's just a generalized statement. It's not an aircraft that makes a company profitable or not. It's what goes on behind the doors. Regardless if they have a 330, 340, 777, 747, Concorde, or Russian aircraft.. it's all about behind closed door policies.. If you had all new 330 vs all new 777 vs all new Il76 (?), it all depends on how the people at HQ has their operations set up.. taking into account the fuel differences, revenue, etc can be adjusted for any aircraft.. it's all an Operation success, not an aircraft..
Aiming High and going far..
 
Johnny
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:05 am

@ERJ170 "Now that's just a generalized statement"

Absolutely yes - and it was only my answer to such a statement from Briguy1974 (Reply 14)

I do not expect that an airlines profit depends on 5-10 percent fuel consumption.


Johnny
 
osiris30
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:17 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 22):
I do not expect that an airlines profit depends on 5-10 percent fuel consumption.

Can I move to your planet???

British Airways:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_...iles/irol/69/69499/Report_2006.pdf

All Values in Millions of Pounds:

Gross Revenue: 8,515
Operating Profit: 705

Fuel/oil costs: 1,632

As you can see 10% of that 1.6B pounds is a VERY sizeable number. In fact fuel is the SECOND HIGHEST cost for BA. And BA is a legacy carrier. For an airline such as Southwest:

All Values in Millions of Dollars (US)

Gross Revenue: 7,548
Operating Profit (before taxes, same as BA): 779

Fuel/oil costs: 1,341

Again 10% is significant and SW had excellent hedges in place.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Johnny
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:38 am

@ Osiris30

it is not necessary to move my planet, but thanks.

Airline business is my daily job and i can tell you that fuel-consumption is only a part of the business.

You can see that easily all around the world, where carriers with the most efficient airplanes come into problems.

If you want take a look at LH:
There longhaul fleet consists of only 10 A330 with two engines,plus around 40 A340 with four engines plus B744s with 4 engines.

They could have opted for the B777 instead of the A340, but they did not.And we all know about LH´s profit in comparison to others.

Johnny
 
briguy1974
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:38 am

Any airliner is cheaper used than otherwise. Airlines operating the T7 are not getting rid of them and replacing them with A340 aircraft. Airlines picking up used A340 like SA and FI (not sure if Finns are new or leased???) are getting them at used prices. What was the last mega order for the A340...anything more than 10 frames? I am asking I do not know the answer..
 
sparkingwave
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 18):
while the B777 cabin is and feels more spacious, the 2-4-2 (Y) and 2-2-2 (C) configuration on the A330/A340 beats 3-3-3/3-4-3 and 2-3-2 on the B777.

Not if you are tall and sitting at a window seat in coach in the A330/A340!

SparkingWave ~~~
Flights to the moon and all major space stations. At Pan Am, the sky is no longer the limit!
 
osiris30
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:42 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
Airline business is my daily job and i can tell you that fuel-consumption is only a part of the business.

You said:

Quoting Johnny (Reply 22):
I do not expect that an airlines profit depends on 5-10 percent fuel consumption.

Had you said 'only on 5-10 percent...' I would have agreed with you 100%. However, for some struggling carriers that 5-10% makes all the difference.

Finally, find me a company on the face of the earth that WANTS to spend 5-10% more than they need to!

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
If you want take a look at LH:
There longhaul fleet consists of only 10 A330 with two engines,plus around 40 A340 with four engines plus B744s with 4 engines.

They could have opted for the B777 instead of the A340, but they did not.And we all know about LH´s profit in comparison to others.

When did LH pick up the majority of their 340s? I'm guessing it was before the 777 was proven out. At that point commonality became more important. And if LH could shave 10% fuel burn for the 340s are you saying they wouldn't (all things being equal). I would bet if they had to do it all over again they would have gone 777.. hind-sight always 20/20.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Johnny
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 2:58 am

@ Osiris30

"When did LH pick up the majority of their 340s"

After 1995,so after EIS of the B777.
 
jycarlisle
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
Simple... The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..

And even more simply ... The T7 is just the most awesome aircraft to have ever been built along with the Concorde and the A380. But that's just my personal humble opinion of course!  Wink

I congrat Austrian for using the T7 and the colors really make the T7 look really good.

Cheers,
Jeremy Carlisle
"CHANGE IS: CLEAN PLANES AND DIRTY MARTINIS" (DL)
 
osiris30
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 3:10 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 28):
@ Osiris30

"When did LH pick up the majority of their 340s"

After 1995,so after EIS of the B777.

But before it proved out, no? I'm trying to determine only the A models were available. They were significantly less capable aircraft compared to later models. 777A vs 340 is a toss up IMHO.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Leskova
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:14 am

Quoting SparkingWave (Reply 26):
Quoting PlaneHunter (Reply 18):
while the B777 cabin is and feels more spacious, the 2-4-2 (Y) and 2-2-2 (C) configuration on the A330/A340 beats 3-3-3/3-4-3 and 2-3-2 on the B777.

Not if you are tall and sitting at a window seat in coach in the A330/A340!

I'm just under 1.9m tall and have rather wide shoulders... and I fully agree with PlaneHunter's comment about the A340 being more comfortable; personally, I haven't had a single flight on a B777 that came anywhere close to the comfort offered by A340s (or the, cabin-configuration-wise, identical A330).
Smile - it confuses people!
 
AvObserver
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:40 am

Quoting Leskova (Reply 31):
I fully agree with PlaneHunter's comment about the A340 being more comfortable; personally, I haven't had a single flight on a B777 that came anywhere close to the comfort offered by A340s

I've heard many opinions that echo this; praising A340 operators for not putting a middle seat in business class so it's probably generally true. Unfortunately for Airbus, most airlines now seem to be favoring lower fuel burn over passenger comfort so even if a plurality of flyers favored the A340, it wouldn't matter much in a fleet selection process. Even a 5-10% savings on fuel would make a lot of difference in the long run, if most other concerns were relatively equal. Why else would Airbus now be in a rush to replace the A340, the latest models of which only just entered service about 4 years ago? It was a substantial investment to create the A340-500/600 derivatives but orders mostly flamed out in the last couple of years, thanks to nagging fuel price woes. This is very sad because I think they're magnificent airplanes; it's just too bad Airbus didn't see the the handwriting on the wall earlier and go to 2 engines for these models. It'll be a number of years before the A350XWB orders will be able to fully pick up the slack for the now nearly moribund A340.  Sad
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:56 am

To be neat-picky, this is not a switch per se, but rather a rationalization since the T7s are inherited from Lauda. The new OS had 5 fleet sub-types 332, 342, 343, 763ER, 772ER, from 3 families, which is too many considering the total number of frames they have and that those 3 families all belong to the same size category (pretty much). So, the youngest and most modern stay, the others go... Simple. And yes, despite being a great aircraft (no ambiguity about that), the 340 has been beaten by the 772ER which had even more innovations...

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
more passenger comfort over the A340..

My opinion on that matter differs from yours. And OS does not take that into consideration, this is not their problem.

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 14):
CHRIS Go to the pub have a pint and maybe you will see the simple truth in my post. Airlines trying to make money want the T7 over any A340 type.

However UA AZ or RG have the 777, and LH LA or IB have the 340. It seems that some airlines manage to make money with the 340 while some fail to do so with the T7... You had too many pints already, my friend.  banghead 
When I doubt... go running!
 
jimyvr
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:10 am

Quoting Johnny (Reply 22):
I do not expect that an airlines profit depends on 5-10 percent fuel consumption

But within the last 24 months and based on current trend, 5%-10% fuel consumption can reduce the financial burden of the airline, not necessarily a profit.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
tommybp251b
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
they found out from the forums here that their A340s, which they had paid all their hard-earned Austrian marks for, were actually not worth anything at all, and that even the scrapman wouldnt take them on.

Yeah! Thats what I allways thought. Here are the real experts.  Wink Just kidding. Don't take it personal.

Another point!
Shouldn't we just stop this A vs B thing forever?!? Maybe two engines are economically better nowadays, but I don't think its a big difference towards 4 engines. I don't believe AF, LH, EK, IB and so on being totally stupid and blind with their A340. I think the people who rule these airlines know what is good for them. I would not call them unqualificated when they decide to have a 4-engines plane in their fleet. So is there a real difference?

Regards. Tom
Tom from Cologne
 
osiris30
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:22 am

Quoting TommyBP251b (Reply 35):
Maybe two engines are economically better nowadays, but I don't think its a big difference towards 4 engines. I don't believe AF, LH, EK, IB and so on being totally stupid and blind with their A340. I think the people who rule these airlines know what is good for them. I would not call them unqualificated when they decide to have a 4-engines plane in their fleet. So is there a real difference?

They already have them in their fleets. They are 'stuck' with them for all intents and purposes. It's not about who has them, it's about who's ordering new ones.. Airbus orders for 340s this year are virtually non-existant. That speaks volumes.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:23 am

Lower operating costs due to 2 engine modality. AC has done/is doing the same thing.
I come in peace
 
ZBA320
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:13 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
I give it 20 seconds until someone has a sense of humour bypass and deletes it.

I actually found it funny!! Perhaps I need to use this RU list more.  Smile

*Awaits the hundred posts of the Weekly A340 vs B777 Fuel Consumption war*
An Engineer made a bet that a 747 Gear wouldn't retract in a Hangar. He lost the bet.
 
swissy
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:36 am

CHRISBA, way to go, you made my day

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
Airline business is my daily job and i can tell you that fuel-consumption is only a part of the business.

I second that and yes high fuel prices gives everyone a headache regardless if you operate T7's or 340's.

OS problems are for sure not the 33/34 alone  Wink and yes they are going to use the T7 instead the 33/34, time will tell or perhaps OS is just to small to have such a "small" diverted WB fleet.....

If life would be that easy, every airline would only order T7's based on most of your comments..........
Have you guys lately visit a car dealer ship?? ever check the "Energy Guide" for fuel consumption?? they are more or less base numbers, no more no less,
how that car performs under "your" use well that is a different story......

Cheers,
 
brilondon
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:01 am

It all boils down to economics and what the airline feels would be the best for the airline and has nothing to do with PTVs or which plane is smoother then the other. The later has more to do with weather then what type of plane you are flying.
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
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tjcab
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:27 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
they had paid all their hard-earned Austrian marks

Austria uses Euros and before that it was the Austrian Schilling!
 
scaledesigns
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:35 am

I think one of the best salesman for Boeing talked them into the 777,
Niki Lauda(F1 champion in 1975-1977 in a Ferrari)
He flew them,so maybe he knows a thing or two about his old airlines
aircraft!!
F1 Tommy
 
trex8
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 8:38 am

Quoting Osiris30 (Reply 30):
777A vs 340 is a toss up IMHO.

the 772ER is probably a better example to use to compare with the A340, if someone was using the A340 , of any subtype, on routes meant for a 772A they really would be in the red!
 
AvFan4ever
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:00 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
I think basically they changed it because their managers and directors are known to browse this site from time to time, and when, after several years of trouble free operations, they found out from the forums here that their A340s, which they had paid all their hard-earned Austrian marks for, were actually not worth anything at all, and that even the scrapman wouldnt take them on.

These forums provide entertainment value to those who either work in the aviation industry at a medium capacity or less, and to those who do not work in the aviation industry but have an interest in aviation-related topics. For those "in the know", these forums provide a modest (and somewhat irritating) window into the world of general public opinion, rumours, and misinformation. In my daily contact with airline and OEM senior management, I have never run across a single person who indicated that airliners.net was a source of useable or trustworthy information. For topics in my area of expertise, I can confidently say that 99% of the material I read in these forums related to my area of expertise is incorrrect.

To think that the opinions of this forum contributed to the fleet planning decisions of a competently managed airline is ridiculous.
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 10:55 am

Quoting AvFan4ever (Reply 44):
These forums provide entertainment value to those who either work in the aviation industry at a medium capacity or less, and to those who do not work in the aviation industry but have an interest in aviation-related topics. For those "in the know", these forums provide a modest (and somewhat irritating) window into the world of general public opinion, rumours, and misinformation. In my daily contact with airline and OEM senior management, I have never run across a single person who indicated that airliners.net was a source of useable or trustworthy information. For topics in my area of expertise, I can confidently say that 99% of the material I read in these forums related to my area of expertise is incorrrect.To think that the opinions of this forum contributed to the fleet planning decisions of a competently managed airline is ridiculous.

I suspect you are quite right. I have read some of your old posts on other threads and you seem to be a highly informed individual. I will look ot further posts of yours with interest. I wish you would indicate on your profile what type of work you do within the Industry.

With respect...
I come in peace
 
ScottB
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 12:47 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 24):
They could have opted for the B777 instead of the A340, but they did not.And we all know about LH�s profit in comparison to others.

Yes, we do all know about Lufthansa's profit in comparison to others. In 2005, the operating profit of the passenger segment was 135 million euros on 12 million euros in revenue -- or an operating margin of 1.1% on the passenger transportation business. Lufthansa spent 2.2 billion euros in 2005 on fuel; if they had spent just 5% less on fuel, their operating profit would have been nearly double what they reported.

Quoting Johnny (Reply 19):
Airlines not only try but make money, often fly the A340...VS,IB,SQ,LH,SK,etc...

SK is not an example I'd choose when trying to find profitable airlines. Shall we add SR/LX, SN, AC (which went through the Canadian equivalent of bankruptcy), TN, PR, etc. to the A340 operators trying to make money?
 
sstsomeday
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:10 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 46):
Yes, we do all know about Lufthansa's profit in comparison to others. In 2005, the operating profit of the passenger segment was 135 million euros on 12 million euros in revenue -- or an operating margin of 1.1% on the passenger transportation business. Lufthansa spent 2.2 billion euros in 2005 on fuel; if they had spent just 5% less on fuel, their operating profit would have been nearly double what they reported.

Good example. Many areas of operation can add or detract from an airline's bottom line. But to suggest that fuel economy can be ignored merely by properly managing an airline's other expenses is not logical.

I think many airlines had ordered / were committed to the 340 before the 777 had been proven and (to be fair) before fuel prices spiked so dramatically and stayed there. Unfortunately, Airbus applied some excellent technology to an A/C concept with an archaic modality - 4 engines.
I come in peace
 
flydreamliner
Posts: 1928
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:49 pm

Quoting ZBA320 (Reply 38):
*Awaits the hundred posts of the Weekly A340 vs B777 Fuel Consumption war*

I didn't know there was much debate on this point..... I know people will bicker till blue in the face as to which is nicer to ride on, which is a better aircraft, but I did not know there was any huge debate on which one burned less fuel....

As for your British sense of humour, i guess it did not translate for everyone, haha. That said, anyone who didn't pick up the sarcasm is probably dense.
"Let the world change you, and you can change the world"
 
787engineer
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:08 am

RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 1:59 pm

Quoting Johnny (Reply 28):
After 1995,so after EIS of the B777.

Actually, LH started flying A343s back in 1993. According to the following article LH was scheduled to receive almost half of their A343 fleet (15/35) by March 1994, well before the 777A's EIS, much less the 772ER/773.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...950DE7DD173BF934A25751C0A96F948260

That's probably the main reason they have kept them. For LH it may not have been worth it to switch to the 777, at the time (late 1990s) their A340s were still very new.
 
aeroplan73
Posts: 162
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:04 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
LOL its called a touch of British Humour.

That was pretty funny. You forgot Air Canada though, but they are dumping their A340's unfortunately. It's a shame, the A345 is a pure pleasure to fly in, regardless of travel class.
I remember, the choices were chicken or fish. I had the lasagna.
 
antonovman
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2001 12:45 pm

RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:24 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 6):
LOL its called a touch of British Humour.

It was more like a tantrum
 
777ER
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 5:43 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):

Haha, thanks for the excellent laugh

Quoting NA (Reply 5):
Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..

The first thing is right as the 777s are more densely packed and use less fuel, the second is rubbish in my mind. My own experiece is the total opposite. The difference is small, but to the advantage of the A340

Boeing was given an award (don't know the name of it thou) for its signature range cabin in the B777s and is still the only airliner family to be given an award for its passenger comfort. The B777 signature cabin is now also used on the B737NGs. An award like that speaks a thousand words on how comfy the B777 is over the A340 for its passengers. I can see the B787 also being given an award for its passenger comfort
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Leskova
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RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting AvObserver (Reply 32):
I've heard many opinions that echo this; praising A340 operators for not putting a middle seat in business class so it's probably generally true. Unfortunately for Airbus, most airlines now seem to be favoring lower fuel burn over passenger comfort so even if a plurality of flyers favored the A340, it wouldn't matter much in a fleet selection process.

I know - I was only commenting on the comfort-side of the arguement; I'm aware that comfort for passengers will, at most, play a role in the fleet selection if all, and I mean all, other points are equal.

Other than that, it's a negligable point in the selection process.

Quoting Scaledesigns (Reply 42):
I think one of the best salesman for Boeing talked them into the 777,
Niki Lauda(F1 champion in 1975-1977 in a Ferrari)
He flew them,so maybe he knows a thing or two about his old airlines
aircraft!!

... first of all, I doubt that OS' management is listening too much to him, considering what seriously big f*ck-ups he caused; and, as a second note, in that case I'd recommend that Boeing should work on the B737NG - because he flies A320s these days, after having B777 and B737 experience...  Wink


Oh, and before I forget it: CHRISBA777ER - HILLARIOUS!!! It took minutes for me to stop laughing!!!  rotfl   rotfl   rotfl 
Smile - it confuses people!
 
ThePRGuy
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Aug 10, 2006 10:07 am

RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:29 pm

Quoting Briguy1974 (Reply 1):
Simple... The T7 offers Austrian greater cost savings and more passenger comfort over the A340..

I have flown both relatively frequently: 772, and A343/5 & 6 and every time the airbus in various airline config has been a more comfortable ride.
Can't dispute the fuel consumption though.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):

LOL!

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 9):
Besides, gotta love the British sense of humor.

Sarcasm haha  Smile

Alex
Heathrow has been described as the only building site to have its own airport.
 
PlaneHunter
Posts: 6538
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:17 am

RE: Austrian:why Switch From A340 To B777?

Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:20 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 52):
An award like that speaks a thousand words on how comfy the B777 is over the A340 for its passengers.

No it doesn't - the Design Excellent award honored the cabin DESIGN. That may please the eye, but it's the seat itself, the pitch and the confuguration which are essential for comfort.

If I'm stuck in a "double-excuse-me"-seat in 3-3-3 or 2-5-2 I couldn't care less about the design.


PH
Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!

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