Hi folks I know how rumors spread and I am fully aware that until it is offically announced that these are just rumors. I got this excerpt from a NWA letter in MKE:I am just very shocked that Jet Blue applied for 2 gates in Mke. They already have a counter they are sharing with American Eagle. I guess it doesn't harm NW but Midwest should be abit worried. They are adding Burbank, Boston, JFK, Ft.Myers, and Orlando. Keep in mind these are just some routes that were mentioned in the NW news letter.
I obviously cannot divulge my "sources".
What does everyone think about the possibility of B6 starting in MKE.
Regards,
Mark in MKE

Quoting Legacytravel (Thread starter): They already have a counter they are sharing with American Eagle.

Why would B6 have a counter in an airport they don't even serve? That makes NO sense whatsoever. I'll believe this one once it's confirmed.

I'm putting my 2 cents in....yes. Come on in B6!! I think they could very well do a good job at stealing some of the leisure NYC market and orlando. I don't think they'll do well going west coast.

Quoting Legacytravel (Thread starter): They already have a counter they are sharing with American Eagle.

Wait huh!?!?! Since when do they have part of the AE counter? Won't United Express get crowded out..hehe.

Why would they come to MKE when they just got slots at ORD?

MKE-BUR just seems a bit odd to me. I'll believe it when I see it.

It sounds plausible.

I believe Jetblue's new philosophy will target routes being run by the 717 on both AirTran and Midwest. AirTran is already receiving a challenge after they announced Stewart, and I believe ROC and BUF are next in B6 sights. I think Jetblue feels the 190 with it's amenities and costs will be too difficult for these (2) carriers to deal with.

Quoting SkyexRamper (Reply 2): Wait huh!?!?! Since when do they have part of the AE counter

LIke I said about the rumors they are like A-holes everyone has them. I do believe that B6 will be there sooner or later. I think they will serve JFK and MCO. I could also see a P2P of MKE to LAS since there is no competition for YX.
Regards,
MKE in MKE

Quoting Flyingbronco05 (Reply 3): Why would they come to MKE when they just got slots at ORD?

That's worse than saying "why would an airline serve JFK, LGA and EWR?"

Obviously ORD and MKE are two totally different markets and warrant separate service. Especially since jetBlue is a growth airline, it would not be surprising.

Quoting Coronado990 (Reply 4): MKE-BUR just seems a bit odd to me. I'll believe it when I see it.

I agree on that one.

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 6): I think they will serve JFK and MCO.

I am thinking JFK to start off, then adding BOS. Both have connections to MCO. Direct service may be one of the "connect the dots" things later on once the city is established.

Either way you cut it, this is an interesting announcement...especially coming from NW. It is plausible at the same time though. Only time will tell!

Doesn't sound to bad actually. I hope JetBlue does start MKE service!

What's the current gate situation up at MKE? I know D and E are all spoken for, but I don't know what is going on on C...

DL is only getting 1 when the new part of C opens.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 10): What's the current gate situation up at MKE? I know D and E are all spoken for, but I don't know what is going on on C...

I believe that with the expansion in C that there will be room for B6. I have been patiently waiting for Blue to start up. Whether or not we get any P2P flying with a 320 or the 190 remains to be seen.
My ideas are as follows
MKE-MCO
MKE-JFK
MKE-BUR possible bot highly unlikely.
also maybe NWA was aware of B6 starting up before they dropped the LAS,MCO LAX flying from MKE
Regards,
Mark in MKE

Quoting Legacytravel (Thread starter): I am just very shocked that Jet Blue applied for 2 gates in Mke

Do you think these 2 would be the new ones that are coming in with the hammerhead, or some of the current ones? As for now it doesn't look like theres room for them until summer when the hammerhead is set to be finished.

Quoting FLIGHTDECK787 (Reply 11): DL is only getting 1 when the new part of C opens.

If your saying DL is going to be cutdown to having one gate, I would seriously doubt that.

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 12): I believe that with the expansion in C that there will be room for B6

C16-25 appear to be open per the terminal map. Time will tell.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 13): Do you think these 2 would be the new ones that are coming in with the hammerhead

My best guess is that they will be in the new hammerhead. That is the only spot that is available. And to get two gates they are going to have to have 5-10 flghts a day dont you think?
Mark in MKE

Now that they have ORD, I highly doubt that will happen. If it does, then my hopes of GRR or another Michigan destination might rise once again.

Cheers,

Jeremy Carlisle

MKE-BUR Yeah right!!!!!!


ASLAX

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 15): And to get two gates they are going to have to have 5-10 flghts a day dont you think?

Yeah that would be my guess but then again doesnt FL have 2 gates at MKE and they only have like 5-6 flights?

[Edited 2006-11-30 15:05:44]

Does anybody think that B6 will try and move into CVG, DAY, or CMH in the near future? I think it would be profitable for B6 to run RJs in and out of CVG's Concourse C, in the soon-to-be vacant OH building.

Just my two cents.

CVG 72

Can B6 compete against Midwest ?? I don't think so. Jetblue may have found the only other airline in the USA that beats even the B6 club's view of B6's service. Having flown YX 15+ times in the last 2 years and EWR-MKE-MCI-SAT just 3 days ago I've gotta say they are just amazing.

Quoting NorthwestEWR (Reply 20): Can B6 compete against Midwest ?? I don't think so. Jetblue may have found the only other airline in the USA that beats even the B6 club's view of B6's service. Having flown YX 15+ times in the last 2 years and EWR-MKE-MCI-SAT just 3 days ago I've gotta say they are just amazing.

Jetblue is probably looking at bleeding Midwest out of business. They only have a little over $100M of which $45M or so is restricted.

Will MKE customers go for B6 service? Curiosity will find some at MKE trying B6, but it will be difficult to pry away those spoiled by the excellent service of the hometown airline. B6 is probably willing to fly with LF's in the 50 & 60's on the 190s. Yields will be meager, and they will probably lose some money in the first year of service. It will be a battle of attrition.

Jetblue just may walk away after a year if other opportunities open up due to consolidation. It should be an interesting battle.

Quoting CVG72 (Reply 19): Does anybody think that B6 will try and move into CVG, DAY, or CMH in the near future?

JetBlue already flies CMH-BOS and CMH-JFK.

CVG-JFK/BOS already has a little airline called Delta flying it.

DAY-JFK, very possible someday.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 21): Jetblue is probably looking at bleeding Midwest out of business. They only have a little over $100M of which $45M or so is restricted.

As big of a fan of the red-tail that I am, NW tried that when YX was in far worse shape financially, and couldn't.

YX stands alone.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 21): Will MKE customers go for B6 service? Curiosity will find some at MKE trying B6, but it will be difficult to pry away those spoiled by the excellent service of the hometown airline. B6 is probably willing to fly with LF's in the 50 & 60's on the 190s. Yields will be meager, and they will probably lose some money in the first year of service. It will be a battle of attrition.

You're right, MKE is laden with loyalists to YX (and NW for that matter), and it would be a costly battle of attrition, one that B6 would probably just assume ignore, given that they're finally getting into the midwest with ORD.

With CO and YX, I think the MKE-NYC market is appropriately served, and JFK as a stop for points farther south (FL namely) is just geographically insane. BUR? That's a stretch...I could see LGB being a better choice if the slots were there. YX failed with signature service to SNA; LAX has proven to be the only viable LA-area airport to be served from MKE.

As far as MCO...why open a station to serve a route with marginal, if any, yield potential?

Long and short, B6 would not be coming to MKE, especially to muscle out YX.

I agree, B6 would not be able to "bleed" out YX. NW tried numerous times and failed each time. MKE is very loyal to YX. B6 is looking for profitable routes, why go ino a new city, where over 50% of the market share is held by one airline with very loyal customers? Would you want to go from a signature service aircraft to a 3x3 config, just because of the live TV? Most business travelers have work to do and need the extra space YX provides?

Sure, If B6 comes, there will be curious people who will try their service, however, I am confident that they will come back to YX.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 24): Sure, If B6 comes, there will be curious people who will try their service, however, I am confident that they will come back to YX.

Yep I tried YX once and since then I've been flying them as much as possible. Fantastic service !

Quoting N917ME (Reply 24): agree, B6 would not be able to "bleed" out YX. NW tried numerous times and failed each time. MKE is very loyal to YX. B6 is looking for profitable routes, why go ino a new city, where over 50% of the market share is held by one airline with very loyal customers? Would you want to go from a signature service aircraft to a 3x3 config, just because of the live TV? Most business travelers have work to do and need the extra space YX provides? Sure, If B6 comes, there will be curious people who will try their service, however, I am confident that they will come back to YX.

Don't discount B6 that much. The 190 with 2X2 leather seating and Direct TV is not NWA. It will offer a formidable challenge to YX, albeit a difficult one.

If they venture into MKE, it will be a trial. They have no visions of grandure, but if they see they are making headway in 12 months, the station could become their midwest hub. MKE seems to have quite a few available gates and this is the achilles heal for any carrier trying to protect a mini-hub.

[Edited 2006-11-30 19:23:54]

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 14): C16-25 appear to be open per the terminal map. Time will tell.

The map on the MKE website shows the C hammerhead as done but it is still quite a few months away. When that is done I believe the temporary C gates will be torn down (The arm to the left with C6, etc). After all that is done, MKE should have a good handful of gates unspoken for.

As for MKE and Jetblue, it wouldn't shock me if they came here. However:

(1) The brand loyalty to YX is rather strong

(2) NW does have a big FF base here and even they couldn't do well enough at poaching YX's traffic to make a go of it.

(3) The primary market for JetBlue at MKE would almost certainly be JFK. And Milwaukee-NYC is a LaGuardia-focused market. I'm not saying MKE-JFK will make zero inroads if it is tried. MKE-LGA is like fishing in a barrel. MKE-EWR, on the other hand, is a mediocre performer for both Midwest and Continental. That in spite of EWR's strengths (huge international hub to feed with on-line connections, closer to lower Manhattan than LGA, etc). From many destinations, JFK is viewed as a good NYC option, but from MKE and some other cities that is a tough mindset change. Witness the attempts to fly MKE-IAD by Metrojet, Midwest and United in the past handful of years. Superlow fares on Metrojet, the Midwest hub at MKE, the United hub at IAD. MKE-IAD failed again and again while DCA does well.

(4) The rather limited success of AirTran and Frontier in Milwaukee is telling. Both are still here, but AirTran results have varied between weak and marginal in most markets, most months. Frontier packs people into aircraft, but weak yields...espcially due to a high reliance on notoriously-crappy MKE-west coast fares...have hurt results. Frontier has a few times added a 3rd flight and each time it has been pulled after a few months. Other attempts in the past decade or so, from Sun Country to Vanguard to ProAir to ATA to Metrojet to USA3000 to Continental Lite have all learned a similar lesson...you can pack them in to Florida and Vegas but you won't make any money, and every other route will be a struggle.

(5) Traffic at MKE, after a few years of strong growth, is flat again.

(6) The final, somewhat subjective but rather telling item is that Southwest hasn't come here in spite of years of heavy courting. When you exclude the slot-controlled airports and a few megafortress hubs (CLT, CVG, MSP, etc) it's hard to come up with anyplace as big as MKE without Southwest service. Yet they continue to pass.

Now Southwest could announce tomorrow they are coming to MKE. And maybe JetBlue will too. Gate space has been fairly tight (though it didn't stop Frontier and AirTran from coming in) and that will change with the C expansion. And it is getting harder and harder for the fast-growing airlines to find good markets to enter so maybe MKE is now near the top of the list. But MKE isn't exactly low-hanging fruit.

[Edited 2006-11-30 20:18:28]

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 27): But MKE isn't exactly low-hanging fruit.

Great information, and all very fairly worded. Jetblue will certainly have their work cut out for them if this pans out. Jetblue needs a central hub for their 190s and I think they will approach this delema on a few fronts. They may open MCI and STL on a limited basis in 2007. Both of these stations have potential along with MKE as a hub. Further complicating matters will be consolidation. Jetblue is certainly not going to commit anywhere until those matters are resolved.

LegacyTravel sounds like he's for real, and he has thrown a caveat in there to protect his reputation. The fact that this "hammerhead" is nearing completion lends further credibility to the speculation.

It is interesting that WN has chosen to stay away. They obviously feel that even they would have a tough time competing. All in all it makes for interesting discussion.

That is correct that DL will get only gate "per say" when the new C opens. They will have 1 jetway however there will be spots to park 2 mainline jets and you will be able to swing the jetway.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 28): Both of these stations have potential along with MKE as a hub.

There's no way YX and a B6 hub could coexist, and I don't see B6 eliminating YX...

Quoting FLIGHTDECK787 (Reply 29): That is correct that DL will get only gate "per say" when the new C opens. They will have 1 jetway however there will be spots to park 2 mainline jets and you will be able to swing the jetway.

Well if thats true there's gonna have to be a pretty big cutback of DL at MKE. When I was there a week ago they had 5 aircraft stay overnight. They obviously won't be able to do that with just one gate. While were talking about DL, anyone know how the SLC route is doing? Any chance for an upgrade from a CRJ7?

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 28): LegacyTravel sounds like he's for real, and he has thrown a caveat in there to protect his reputation. The fact that this "hammerhead" is nearing completion lends further credibility to the speculation.

I heard that from a "NWA Insider" however much that means in this world.    . This person has never gave me the wrong information on anything so I do trust him.
Regards,
Mark in MKE

Nice to see the blue kool-aid drinkers are out in force again. It's been a quiet couple of weeks with little speculation. Keep it up guys!

If they applied for gates wouldn't this be an open records item?

If so a simple email or phone call to Gen. Mitchell could quickly give us the answer.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 31): anyone know how the SLC route is doing? Any chance for an upgrade from a CRJ7?

I'm flying the route in January and it's scheduled on a CR9.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 24): I agree, B6 would not be able to "bleed" out YX. NW tried numerous times and failed each time. MKE is very loyal to YX. B6 is looking for profitable routes, why go ino a new city, where over 50% of the market share is held by one airline with very loyal customers? Would you want to go from a signature service aircraft to a 3x3 config, just because of the live TV? Most business travelers have work to do and need the extra space YX provides? Sure, If B6 comes, there will be curious people who will try their service, however, I am confident that they will come back to YX.

The problem with YX is not the service... they are nationally renowned for their excellent service and fresh baked cookies... however they don't fly to as many places as jetBlue does. I think as a matter of convenience and want of low fares all the same, MKE passengers may use jetBlue to reach destinations that YX doesn't fly to conveniently (that's if jetBlue goes to MKE at all).

Quoting Flybyguy (Reply 36): however they don't fly to as many places as jetBlue does. I think as a matter of convenience and want of low fares all the same, MKE passengers may use jetBlue to reach destinations that YX doesn't fly to conveniently (that's if jetBlue goes to MKE at all).

In terms of raw number of cities this is true. But if you look at the cities that YX flies to B6 really doesn't cover that many different major cities from YX other than the Pacific Northwest. Houston is probably the biggest, and YX failed at that recently. I love MKE, and would love to see it grow, but I think a B6 comparison with what F9 and FL are currently like in MKE would be exactly right. And lets be honest if talking about connecting trafic, connecting from MKE to anywhere other than international via JFK, probably isn't the most convenient thing, especially being right in the middle of DTW, MSP and ORD.

Quoting Supa7E7 (Reply 22): CVG-JFK/BOS already has a little airline called Delta flying it

That's what competition is about. That little airline called Delta used to have the greatest market share in many markets until jetBlue came along and gained that loyalty.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 24): Would you want to go from a signature service aircraft to a 3x3 config, just because of the live TV?

jetBlue also flies the E190 which is comfortable, spacious 2x2 seating...in addition to the IFE.

Quoting Lowecur (Reply 21): B6 is probably willing to fly with LF's in the 50 & 60's on the 190s.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 24): Sure, If B6 comes, there will be curious people who will try their service, however, I am confident that they will come back to YX.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 27): (1) The brand loyalty to YX is rather strong

There's one thing you're all forgetting...sure, Midwest has an extremely strong following at MKE due to its high quality product and service. HOWEVER, jetBlue also has extreme loyalty due to its high quality product and service. This loyalty is mostly in the NY-area (and even BOS), so if jetBlue does enter the MKE market, I would be willing to bet that those flights can easily fill up just based on NYC-area travelers!!! Not the entire market resides in the MKE-area!

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 38): I would be willing to bet that those flights can easily fill up just based on NYC-area travelers!!! Not the entire market resides in the MKE-area!

The problem is that folks originating out of town are not as attuned to avoiding the ORDeal as are those of us from northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin. B6 will have a tough time convincing anyone ultimately heading to points south of the state line to fly to MKE instead of ORD, while YX has a signficant following in Lake County and even, surprisingly, some loyalty in northern Cook.

I say let them come. They will not bleed YX out of business as some have said. If NW, with their established business, couldn't do it I doubt that a new airline that most in MKE are not familiar with will be able to. Everyone said the same thing when AirTran showed up here and YX is still standing and in fact has increased market share during this time. Maybe the increased competition brings out the best in YX. It will be interesting to see if it does come true.

Here is a little more unofficial information on the subject. This will be a NWA Manager.

I got a chance to chat with the Manager and he insisted that I go talk to American Eagle's Employees. So I walked over chatted with a Ticket Agent. She says that they have talked with Jet Blue. They are interested in counter space and a gate or two. She also stated that they do have a big counter for the amount of flights they offer from Mke, and that they could get rid of a part of their counter.

Regards,
Mark in MKE

Quoting JetBlueNYFL (Reply 38): Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 27): (1) The brand loyalty to YX is rather strong There's one thing you're all forgetting...sure, Midwest has an extremely strong following at MKE due to its high quality product and service. HOWEVER, jetBlue also has extreme loyalty due to its high quality product and service. This loyalty is mostly in the NY-area (and even BOS), so if jetBlue does enter the MKE market, I would be willing to bet that those flights can easily fill up just based on NYC-area travelers!!! Not the entire market resides in the MKE-area!

Indeed Jetblue has a significant base of very loyal supporters. However a market like MKE-NYC is tiltled sigifnicantly to Milwaukee-originating traffic. New York is a big destination for business, convention and vacation travelers. Milwaukee is not. And those NY-area originating travelers who do have reason to fly to Milwaukee regularly may well be very familiar with and loyal to Midwest for this travel. Midwest has been flying LGA-MKE for 20 years and EWR-MKE for nearly as long.

I'm not knocking JetBlue here. I just think there are significant reasons that a route like JFK-MKE might be tough sledding.

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 41): Here is a little more unofficial information on the subject. This will be a NWA Manager. I got a chance to chat with the Manager and he insisted that I go talk to American Eagle's Employees. So I walked over chatted with a Ticket Agent. She says that they have talked with Jet Blue.

Sounds like another one of those "I talked to someone who knows someone who works for someone who talked to someone....". Fact is no one REALLY knows right? If it happens fine. Then again, if you took away speculation, 75% of all posts on a.net would cease!

Is there any plans to expand the ticket counter area in MKE? As mentioned it is becoming a little crowded down there.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 42): However a market like MKE-NYC is tiltled sigifnicantly to Milwaukee-originating traffic.

  

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 41):

Usually you have great insight and accurate information, however as a YX employee and working in a field station, I can tell you counter/gate agents most of the time do not really know what is happening, they do however love to speculate. Not that I am saying the AE person does not know, but I would take it with a grain of salt. For example about a year or so ago, someone from FL in MKE was certain that FL was going to buy/merge with YX. He was so certain, even claimed to talk to Tim and Joe... well, A year later and NOTHING..not even close!

Quoting N917ME (Reply 46): He was so certain, even claimed to talk to Tim and Joe... well, A year later and NOTHING..not even close!

I believe you are referring to who was the FL ramper manager for MKE. Though he has moved on to hopefully much better things with World Airways.

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 44): Is there any plans to expand the ticket counter area in MKE? As mentioned it is becoming a little crowded down there.

I've never seen nor heard of any plans to redo or add on to (don't know where they would) ticketing. They just like to screw with people and keep changing the lines so you never know what side of the counter you're waiting for. I'd have to say that from personal experience MKE has the worst ticketing area in terms of walking space, orientation and flow control.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39): The problem is that folks originating out of town are not as attuned to avoiding the ORDeal as are those of us from northern Illinois and Southern Wisconsin.

B6 could market that to New Yorkers as well as the train that runs from just outside of MKE to notherside of Chicago.

Quoting N917ME (Reply 46): Usually you have great insight and accurate information,

I appreciate the nice compliment. Thank you.
It was not a gate agent that is giving me this information. That is all I can say about the "informant" LOL
I am taking all of this with a take it or leave it attitude. Just fun to discuss this matter. And this is what makes the airline industry so damn interesting as well as why we love it so much.
Regards,
Mark in MKE
P.S. 47 posts on a topic I started is a record for me. I believe I get to take a Blonde F/A from petty cash. 25 Y/O size 4 LOL

Quoting Legacytravel (Reply 48): B6 could market that to New Yorkers as well as the train that runs from just outside of MKE to notherside of Chicago.

New Yorkers aren't going to bite on the Amtrak service. It's tough enough to get Chicagoans to use it.

And if you want to look at how much demand there is for B6 in MKE, compare CO at ORD to CO at MKE (EWR service only for sake of this example). CO has 150 daily seats in the EWR-MKE market and nearly 800 in the EWR-ORD market even in the face of markedly more competition on ORD-EWR.

B6 will be offering 668 daily seats to ORD when it inagurates service. Do that same division, and you're looking at 1 190 daily. 1 daily flight does not a B6 station make...