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Mortyman
Topic Author
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China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:55 am

Airlines is going new ways in keeping their costs down. Now China Southern is asking their passangers to go to the toilets before they enter the plane, insted of using the onboard ones.

The airline has found out that they can save money on this. In 30 000 feet, they can apparently save 1 liter of aircraft fuel everytime someone does not use the toilet.

The energy that is used to flush the toilet can apparently run a car with good fuel consumtion for 10 kilometers says capatain Liu Zhiyuan.

The average cost of a liter aircraft fuel is a little under 1 USD.

China Southern is also saving on their water supplies, by only filling their watertanks up to 60 %


http://forbruker.no/reise/article1551923.ece
 
jimyvr
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:14 am

Next will be strip their clothes so it makes the plane slightly lighter.
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LY777
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:17 am

this is really ridiculous
Flown:717,727,732,733,734,735,738,73H,742/744/748,752,753,762/2ER/763/3ER,772/77E/773/77W, 788, 789, DC8,DC10,E190,E195,MD83,MD88, L1011, A3B2,A319,A320-100/200,A321,A332/A333,A343,A388
 
bringiton
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 4:18 am

Did they hire a few Ryanair execs lately??
 
BWI757
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 6:33 am

Well, for aircraft parked on remote stands I'd recommend they bus them over with a bunch of these:

Economy:
http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10881991/Mobile_Toilet.jpg
http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/10881991/Mobile_Toilet.html

First/Business Class:

http://hzbs.en.alibaba.com/product/5...urpose_Vehicles/Mobile_Toilet.html

BWI757
"Like stars across the sky, we were born to shine" - Andrea Bocelli
 
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Revelation
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:12 am

Quoting BWI757 (Reply 9):
Well, for aircraft parked on remote stands I'd recommend they bus them over with a bunch of these:

What's the crosswind limit of that unit? I surely would not want to be around if it should tip over. Also, what if it got hit by an airplane's jet blast? Boy, the sh*t will have really hit the fan should that have happened!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
AADC10
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 7:49 am

I think this is one of those press releases that is intended to show investors that they are saving money to pad their profits. Obviously nobody is going to hold it on a trans-Pacific flight, even if they are stuck in one of their 10 abreast 777s. Perhaps they ask passengers to use the facilities before the flight on their domestic flights. Those flights only have drink service.

Most other airlines have not been topping of their water tanks either and you probably use more water washing your hands than you do flushing those vacuum toilets anyway. Maybe they should just have moist wipes instead of sinks. Most of their domestic fleet are 737s and A320 series. I am waiting for the day when it becomes routine for the plane to run out of water and the cabin crew announces that you should forget going to the restroom until the plane lands.

I can say I do not care much for the squat toilets in much of China, although the really cruddy ones have been disappearing. Even in a hospital I visited they had squat toilets that were only flushed about once or twice a day.
 
trekster
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:33 am

Quoting Bringiton (Reply 3):
Did they hire a few Ryanair execs lately??

Nope, but bet FR have seen this and will introduce it sooner or later
Where does the time go???
 
HKGKaiTak
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:35 am

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Airlines is going new ways in keeping their costs down. Now China Southern is asking their passangers to go to the toilets before they enter the plane, insted of using the onboard ones.

Actually most Chinese tour operators around the world insist on their passengers not using the on-board lav because they then wouldn't need to clean it and incur disposal costs. Didn't realise that thinking had spread to Chinese airlines too!
4 Engines 4 LongHaul
 
ltbewr
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:51 am

What a bunch of CFB (Cheap Freaking Bussers*). I am quite sure many people, including myself, will go to the lavatory at the airport shortly before having to board as it may be a while before we can go on the a/c, and that the facilities can be very unconfortable to use and want to miminize use any way. That would even include a short hop or a 12 hour transpacific flight. Of course, often the first thing many do is go to the potty when the get off the a/c.
 
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breiz
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
Airlines is going new ways in keeping their costs down.

The ultimate airline will be the one selling tikets but NOT flying passengers. Lots of savings will be made that way, and less security problems too.  banghead 
 
United Airline
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 10:47 am

Absolutely rediculous. Complete joke.

You can't ask customers not to use the toilet while they have to......
 
planesarecool
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:41 am

Quoting Breiz (Reply 15):
The ultimate airline will be the one selling tikets but NOT flying passengers. Lots of savings will be made that way, and less security problems too

Sounds like Flywho  Wink

It would sound a little unprofessional asking customers to use the loo before boarding, but the concept of attempting to limit the toilet usage is a good idea, especially on short haul flights where most people should be able to hang on for an hour or so.
 
trex8
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 1:03 pm

this is not ridiculous at all, in fact they should ask the passengers to contribute "nightsoil" before and after the flight so they can sell it to the farmers near the airport to grow fresh organic vegetables they can serve on the flight! those who do will get some form of reward from the airline, like the ability to go to the toilets or maybe a larger serving of the vegetables!
 
USADreamliner
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 3:10 pm

Why they don't sit people on the floor, with no food, beverages and use canola oil instead of fuel?
 
warszawa
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 5:54 pm

What an awesome idea! I'm waiting for someone to announce these:

Remove individual seats and install school-bus style cushioned bench seats. Save on seatbelt costs (Just have 1 seatbelt for the whole bench), save on seat maintenance, have 1 large tray table per bench (save's on tray tables!), and overall reduces weight. No recline will be offered, because if we can save just 20 bolts needed for reclining on all aircraft, we'll estimate $10,000 in savings for the year!

Carpet will be removed from aircraft; the weight of the carpet is an overwhelming cost measure and is too difficult to maintain. Bare floors will be used. Cheap maintenance, faster turnaround times, easy to remove stains, and saves weight.

Plastic overhead bins will be replaced with cotton sacks to reduce weight and save on the cost of manufacturing plastic bins.

As the overhead bins are replaced, all bulbs, seatbelt signs, and the such will be removed. Fluorescent shop lights will be hung (saves energy) every 10 rows. An added benefit is the reduced heat given off by fluorescent lights, thereby saving cooling costs, which in turn also saves fuel.

Seatbelt/No smoking signs will be replaced with stickers, posted behind every bench, and will remain on at all times. Seatbelt on will be 2 dings from the Captain, seatbelt off will be 1. "No smoking" has no sound.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
malmoaviation
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 8:09 pm

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 24):
Airline saving tips

Interesting.... //O'leary

 Wink
 
cchan
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:01 pm

The next move is probably to remove the toilets and use the space for more seats.
 
airtran717
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Fri Dec 01, 2006 11:28 pm

I know for a fact that on AirTran's 717's and their new 737's( I was an employee until last year)... those toilets only use 7 ounces of water per flush. Washing one's hands uses quite a bit more than that. I still think it's knee-jerk reactionaries that come up with this stuff. Who acually sits and calculates how much money a toilet flush costs? Now there's a job I want to have! Sheesh.
 
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Revelation
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:10 am

You are wise beyond your years, Warszawa!

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 15):
Remove individual seats and install school-bus style cushioned bench seats.

Given the thread starter, why not go for hard plastic benches, with a four inch hole drilled every 18 inches or so. Then you can get rid of the toilet facilities! The pax can just stand up, drop their trousers, yell out some code word like Geronimo to let the pax behind them know, and let fly! Better yet, just shape the benches like a row of toilet seats, so illiterate pax get the idea. The airlines can utilize specially bred low-weight rats to aid in waste removal.

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 15):
Carpet will be removed from aircraft; the weight of the carpet is an overwhelming cost measure and is too difficult to maintain. Bare floors will be used. Cheap maintenance, faster turnaround times, easy to remove stains, and saves weight.

Given the removal of the toilet facilities, having a floor you can just hose down is vital!

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 15):
Plastic overhead bins will be replaced with cotton sacks to reduce weight and save on the cost of manufacturing plastic bins.

I say we go with nylon cargo nets. It will give the pax the rustic feel of the old seafaring days. If that doesn't do it, the raw sewage and the rats should do it. Also, for an added fee, the first class pax can have a "lie flat" hammock. Then you can advertise your ratty old 737-200 as a "double decker", just like the A380!
Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world
The heart has its beaches, its homeland and thoughts of its own
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings
The heart has its seasons, its evenings and songs of its own
 
Jerald01
Posts: 151
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:56 am

Gotta hand it to the accountants back at the home office! Only THEY could think up such a program!  boggled 

Surely some enterprising young person could design a loo that calculates the "deposit" made by the user and then, using a BFS (Bladder Fee System) and a PPP (Poop Per Passenger) factor, determine how much to debit the user's credit card accordingly.

Hey! Why didn't I think of that sooner! I could be a millionaire by now!  Wow!
"There may be old pilots, and there may be bold pilots, but there are darn few green cows"
 
skoker
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 12:58 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 19):
Then you can advertise your ratty old 737-200 as a "double decker", just like the A380!

Heh, I've been on a few of those!
 
Pronto
Posts: 318
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:17 am

Sure, take seats out and strip interior of everything!!(even sound proofing) Canvass fold down seats like on military cargo a/c!! Think of the cost saving!! And the lavatory would just have a curtain around it!! What a plan!! - of course all industries involved in supplying above items wouldn't be happy!! But "who cares?" from the airline exec point of view...
 
musapapaya
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:41 am

I would be glad if China Southern could be a little bit more 'intellgient' in making their press releases.

The Capatain Liu Zhiyuan who makes that statement probably lost his head somewhere. Come on, what a shame of making such statements!
 
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ptharris
Posts: 265
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 2:41 am

I can hear it now:

"Ladies and Gentlemen, this is a pre-potty pre-boarding call. For those passengers that need to go peepee or poopy, please make sure you use the lav before we leave."

or

When you check in at the airport, you're given adult sized Pull-Ups or Depends.

better yet ...

As far as reducing the cabin weight, I like the school bus idea Warszawa had. I was thinking more of a city bus or subway idea. Install long benches along the side walls of the aircraft... 2" x 8" formed plastic. In first class, the same thing, only the benches are padded. The center isle in first class would have the same benches with grab handles above. Economy wouldn't have center benches, yet lightweight aluminum grab rails and handles like what is in subways. No carpet at all as stated above, but in first class they get that school bus grade light green vinyl... economy class gets nothing.. just floorboards with 5mil visqueen for quick "cleaning". Now, the airline will have to show it has safety in mind.. so when you board, you're issued a safety helmet like those used on rock climbers or child bicyclists. Any carry-ons are placed in nylon cargo nets above just as mentioned by Revelation. No limit on passengers in the cabin.. which means no such thing as overbooking a flight anymore. Fill'er up until you can just barely get that door closed. As an added bonus, any passenger that has pilot skills of any kind or flight simulator experience can get a discount as you will be "swapping" with the pilot during flight... that is if you want to call him the "pilot" as he's from a temp agency and needed a job and experience would be questionable.

No more airport parking fees... you land on the runway.. stop at the end... open the door and with a rope ladder, passengers make their way out.. and to expedite the process you keep the engines idle and bump the throttle now and again to get the "lolly gaggers" going. They get off, dazed and confused (but it's not like we care), pull a U-turn and taxi back to the beginnning of the runway to take off again. Any outgoing passengers not waiting at the hold short line at the time of departure has to wait for the next flight. Boarding the flight would be the same as de-boarding as the pax would use the rope ladder and bumping of the throttles are used.

Yup... money money money. Man, I should be an airline CEO. Northwest, here I come!!  Wink
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving isn't for you.
 
Indio66
Posts: 403
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:02 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 7):
Nope, but bet FR have seen this and will introduce it sooner or later

Look for pay toilets from MOL!!

Many people on this forum like to recall the pre-deregulation delays of the 70's and how glamorous it was to fly, however, back then it was VERY common to see pay toilets in US airport rest rooms (typically 10 cents per entry).
 
SlimChance
Posts: 61
Joined: Sun May 28, 2006 5:13 am

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 3:31 am

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):
Next will be strip their clothes so it makes the plane slightly lighter.

Now that sounds like a fun flight.
Actually, there have been flights chartered by 'naturalist' groups do that. I don't think they get discounts for the weight savings, though.
 
trojanAE
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 4:41 pm

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:00 am

Quoting Warszawa (Reply 15):
What an awesome idea! I'm waiting for someone to announce these:

Oh man this whole thread has been one of the most hilarious I have ever read. Thanks everyone!  Big grin
"My soul is in the sky." -William Shakespeare
 
trinxat
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:54 am

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:32 am

How about this...

Give each passenger a single token for the onboard lav. This will encourage pax to use it wisely and do not make an "abusive" use of it, rather to "concentrate" their release in a single shot. Of course pax that are desperate to visit the loo more than once can engage in a courteous and healthy bargain to purchase more tokens from other passengers. Of course these will become more and more valuable the longer the flight time. And those pax willing to make some extra cash for expenses they only need to hold and wait for a good bid.

I am sure there would be here and there posts about the $$$$ that "one sweaty and pant-grabbing guy payed on that flight just one hour short of landing.." etc.

even there could be kind of an e-bay thru the IFE... just imagine: "36K sells his token at $$$. Bid expires in 1 hour, 32 minutes..."  veryhappy 
 
trinxat
Posts: 126
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:54 am

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting SlimChance (Reply 26):
Actually, there have been flights chartered by 'naturalist' groups do that.

Hey! These can even save the seatbelts..... provided the seats are covered with velcro so nude pax will get stuck on them
 
warszawa
Posts: 549
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RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 5:47 pm

Forget coach. Forget it all. Forget all the modifications. Just convert all aircraft to cargo configuration. The hell with it. Forget the gates at airports, just use conveyor belts. Have a seat and enjoy a relaxing ride to the upper cargo deck of an American MD-82, Northwest DC-9, Boeing 787, Airbus A380. Hell, it'll be easier to get rid of the planes once they're tired of using them; Ring-Ring, Fedex, UPS, DHL.

One giant cargo door on the side of an American Airlines MD-82. "NOW BOARDING AMERICAN 1172 SERVICE TO CHICAGO, BELT #3 2ND LEVEL". Bare floors inside and no windows. Cargo containers will be provided at a premium service fee. Oxygen tanks will be provided at the gate on a "cost by weight" basis, because the added weight of oxygen in the aircraft may cost the airline $0.000001 in fuel per flight. Oxygen will be stripped from the aircraft after its arrival at the gate. Oxygen tanks may then be purchased as a surcharge convienence fee, if you prefer to stay awake for your travels.

Baggage must carry seperate tickets in themselves. If you want to fly with a a checked bag, you have to book a ticket, and use the name "BAG GAGE". Mr. or Mrs. BAG, GAGE, need not be checked in on the same flight as you, though if you wish, BAG GAGE can be your companion for the flight, and can be stowed next to you onboard the upper cargo deck.

I can see it now. The electronic cargo door actuator sounding; "Weeeeoooo[10secs]oooo[20secs]oooooooo[30secs]ooo..thump." Flight attendant with a blowhorn "YOU MAY NOW EXIT THROUGH THE LEFT MAIN DOOR". IF YOU STOWED YOUR BAG GAGE, THEN YOU AND OLD: Guangzhou - Baiyun (CAN / ZGGG) (closed), China">CAN LEAVE NOW WITH BAG GAGE, OR YOUR BAG GAGE WILL BE NEAR THE #2 ENGINE, JUST WALK OVER TO THE DOOR, CLIMB IN, AND PICKUP THE DAMN BAG YOURSELF, BECAUSE WE CANT KEEP PAYING OUR GROUND CREWS AND EXPECT TO MAKE A PROFIT OFF YOU PEOPLE; CAPISH?

In flight attitudes will not be tolerated. BAG GAGE will be jettisoned or extracted via one of the engines. Continuous aggravation from a paying customer will result in the customer being cast away to the elements at cruise altitude via our new torpedo-tube self pressurized problem-pax extraction system.

The added savings alone in picking up your own bags from the cargo bay of an airliner can save millions of dollars. Fire all the ground employees and recycle all the tugs and ground equipment into spare aircraft parts, plus you save fuel from not driving tugs. The pilots can actuate the doors from the cockpit.

Airplanes will be parked on the Taxiway, because its too costly to pull into the gate. The in-and-out motion of the gate is an unneccessary waste of fuel.

The Boeing 787 will be redesigned using wireless technology to reduce the weight of wires and thereby reduce the weight of the aircraft, and, thereby saving fuel. Using a wireless bluetooth device hub in the cockpit, and external wifi hotspots located throughout critical areas of the aircraft, wireless signals will be transmitted everytime a button/knob/yoke is moved in the cockpit to one of the wifi locations on the aircraft. Interference shouldn't be a problem, and the possibility of someone hacking into the aircraft's wifi system is nearly non-existant. Boeing has installed Windows Firewall, and Norton Antivirus, running on a Mac system, mixed with MS-DOS to use a 1gb harddrive, instead of a 10gb, to save weight and thereby save fuel). This breakthrough technology will save thousands, in fact millions of dollars. The amount of savings is significantly justifiable to the high amount of lost lives. "Its a risk we just have to deal with - we just cant haul around this extra weight anymore", says one CEO of a major US-Based airline.
Flying a plane is no diff. from riding a bicycle. Its just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes. -'Airplane'
 
Lu
Posts: 162
Joined: Mon Aug 30, 1999 2:02 pm

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 02, 2006 6:38 pm

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 1):

I completely lift my two hands, adding two legs to consenting the notion you have, striping clothes. But, after landing, what do I to take for covering my skin.
 
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Ryan h
Posts: 1701
Joined: Thu Aug 23, 2001 7:11 pm

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:44 pm

Quoting Ptharris (Reply 24):
As an added bonus, any passenger that has pilot skills of any kind or flight simulator experience can get a discount as you will be "swapping" with the pilot during flight... that is if you want to call him the "pilot" as he's from a temp agency and needed a job and experience would be questionable.

My landings would be a bit rough and all the passengers are likely to end all squashed up at the front of the plane when I hit the brakes hard on landing.
South Australian Spotter
 
N1120A
Posts: 26638
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: China Southern: Don't Use The Lavatories

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:57 pm

Quoting Mortyman (Thread starter):
China Southern is also saving on their water supplies, by only filling their watertanks up to 60 %

Airlines have been doing this for quite a while. The water tanks on most aircraft are significantly oversized and filling them actually adds significant unneeded weight to the aircraft.

Quoting USADreamliner (Reply 14):
and use canola oil instead of fuel?

That is actually possible
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss

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