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CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:13 pm

PPRune is reporting VS 744 outbound for JFK had to return to LHR after climbing to FL17 and dumping fuel - sensor caps were left on after some MX work apparently, and they were getting some dodgy airspeed indications. Returned to LHR and landed fine apparently.

Same aircraft rolled for takeoff to JFK again couple of hours later and "aborted takeoff after the nosewheel lifted" due to some dodgy altimeter indications...

The part about aborting after rotation sounds fishy to me - I thought once the nosewheel was off the plane had rotated, and you were going, come hell or high water. I expect it was just a high speed abort and someone got overexcited.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:18 pm

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
aborted takeoff after the nosewheel lifted" due to some dodgy altimeter indications...

You're right, that's BS. If nose wheel is up, you're at V1 already so you're going up whether you like it or not. If you read that somewhere, journalism at it's best as always.
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
oly720man
Posts: 5813
Joined: Fri May 21, 2004 7:13 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:29 pm

There was a post on MANTMA2 yesterday about G-VHOT having the 7700 transponder code, mid afternoon. Probably this was the reason why.
wheat and dairy can screw up your brain
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:51 pm

Hot Lips - one of the ex-LGW birds?

LOL they should change her name to HOT BRAKES  Wink
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
planesarecool
Posts: 3257
Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:07 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
Hot Lips - one of the ex-LGW birds?

LOL they should change her name to HOT BRAKES

G-VLIP is Hot Lips. VHOT is Tubular Belle  Wink
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2001 12:12 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:12 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 4):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 3):
Hot Lips - one of the ex-LGW birds?

LOL they should change her name to HOT BRAKES

G-VLIP is Hot Lips. VHOT is Tubular Belle

I stand corrected. Big grin
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
flyinTLow
Posts: 491
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 10:40 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:16 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 1):
Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
aborted takeoff after the nosewheel lifted" due to some dodgy altimeter indications...

You're right, that's BS. If nose wheel is up, you're at V1 already so you're going up whether you like it or not. If you read that somewhere, journalism at it's best as always.

I'm not too sure about that. Normally you rotate at Vr which is above V1 and a commitment to go. But is it not possible to ROTATE, simply get the front gear in the air at a much lower airspeed? All it needs is enough aerodynamic force over the elevator to create enough momentum to lift the front wheel. The aerodynamic forces over the wing will by far not be enough to support the aeroplanes weight and the aircraft would "wheelie" over the runway. I know this works fine with smaller aircraft (soft field takeoff and landing) and you can see that it worked with an A320 when JetBlue had that incident with the nosewheel. The nosegear was up in the air for a much slower speed than their landing speed.

Cheers,

Thilo
- When dreams take flight, follow them -
 
CHRISBA777ER
Topic Author
Posts: 3715
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RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 2:31 am

Get PhilSquares/Zeke/Wing/Pihero/CXFlyboy/PilotTaydin on here - im pretty sure they will tell you. Once you hit V1, call rotate and pull back on the column the nose gear comes up and you are committed. You are going and thats that - It was pointed out in the Pprune that if one were to reject the TO once rotation had started there would likely be a crash.
What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
 
BA787
Posts: 2381
Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:40 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:02 am

Sounds a but fishy to me and I bet there was a bit of a scare in the cabin if they rotated, put her back down and braked like nowt else.

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Thread starter):
PPRune is reporting VS 744 outbound for JFK had to return to LHR after climbing to FL17 and dumping fuel - sensor caps were left on after some MX work apparently, and they were getting some dodgy airspeed indications. Returned to LHR and landed fine apparently.

Same aircraft rolled for takeoff to JFK again couple of hours later and "aborted takeoff after the nosewheel lifted" due to some dodgy altimeter indications...

Its lucky the crew noticed this, it sounds near identical to the AeroPeru 603 accident, that would have been catastrophic
 
VEEREF
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:55 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:14 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):
Get PhilSquares/Zeke/Wing/Pihero/CXFlyboy/PilotTaydin on here - im pretty sure they will tell you. Once you hit V1, call rotate and pull back on the column the nose gear comes up and you are committed. You are going and thats that - It was pointed out in the Pprune that if one were to reject the TO once rotation had started there would likely be a crash.

Depends. 99.9% of the time the safest course of action is to continue. Part 25 transport category aircraft are designed and certified to be able to safely continue the takeoff in all but the most dire of circumstances.
The exception to this was demonstrated by a TWA L-1011 in the early 90's. Lifted off the ground in JFK and all indications were that the aircraft was not going to fly. Landed back on the runway and skidded off the side.
Saved everyone on board, vs. coming down in an uncontolled fireball off the end of the runway in the middle of a crowded neighborhood.

If the VS crew really felt that the aircraft was not going to fly for whatever reason, then it may have been the prudent thing to do.
This all of course depends on the amount of runway available. JFK has pretty generous amount of concrete to work with.

Not all abnormal or emergency scenarios fit nieatly within the regulations. That's what pilot's are paid to do is make those calls.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
airfoilsguy
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RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:24 am

V1 is the point at which there is not enough runway to stop the plane on the ground but it is not necessarily the point that the plane can take off. That is Vr. Vr can be before or after V1. This depends on the runway length. For example, take a Cessna and a 10,000 foot runway, You will pass Vr way before you ever come close to V1.
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!
 
vc10
Posts: 1432
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2001 4:13 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:48 am

I know it was a long time ago but a Comet crashed on take-off, because it rotated too early and increased the drag to such an extent that the aircraft never reached flying speed.

V1 is a speed that says at this speed there is still enough rumway left to bring the aircraft to a stop or to continue [with an eng failure] to accelerate so as to be at a flying speed before the aircraft physically runs out of runway.[ trying to say it in it's broadest terms]

V2 is flying speed and should be achieved by starting to rotate the aircraft[lift the nosewheel] at VR which is a speed less than V2. Do not rotate before VR otherwise you could run out of runway before the aircraft reaches flying speed, or seriously reduce the aircraft performance just after take off

Just remebered the Concorde crash where they rotated early and got airborne ,but struggled with performance afterwards.

littlevc10
 
sevenheavy
Posts: 969
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RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:12 am

I won't say exactly how but I was VERY closely involved in this situation.

As usual most of the information reported was borderline fantasy.

The problem had nothing to do with sensor caps not being removed. In fact the main reason it returned to LHR the first time was that it had burned too much fuel to continue to JFK, due to prolonged flying at low level while the problem was rectifed.

The bulk of the delay once back on the ground was due to refuelling.

The aircraft then rejected take off way within specified parameters (i.e. BEFORE V1). It was travelling relatively quickly but was able to taxi back to the gate under its own power and no damage to the wheels, tyres or engines was incurred.

No commercial aviator would attempt to reject take off post V1 unless they were faced with a situation that meant the safety of the aircraft, crew and passengers would be compromised if they didn't.

The aircraft was back in revenue service today after some routine maintainence work

Regards
So long 701, it was nice knowing you.
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:35 am

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 12):

A little ioff topic here but looking at your profile, you're a 'CEO for a major UK airline'. Since we're discussing VS here, and you said you were closely involved with the situation, is it safe to assume you're VS's CEO? Is it also safe to assume you're SRB? Only problem with those assumptions is your profile says you're btwn 26-35 and SRB is way past that.

Well, you probably won't answer my question but just thought I'd put it out there...  biggrin 
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
brucek
Posts: 218
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2004 1:43 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:37 am

Quoting CHRISBA777ER (Reply 7):

V1 is the speed above which take-off is committed, and is a product of runway length, environmental factors such as temperature, payload and thrust; but is the point beyond which an abort is considered not an option. However its a speed, not a place- the prediction is that you be at a certain place when the plane has accelerated to the V1 speed.

Since raising the nose wheel considerably effects the ability to stop, and is usually associated with an intent to take-off, V1 is usually called prior to Vr. However, in an instance of incorrect trim where the nose came off prematurely, and prior to the scheduled V1 speed, it may be possible to still abort.

I just fly little planes that don't have/need V speeds, so this is just my understanding.  Smile

Bruce.
 
tommybp251b
Posts: 332
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 5:21 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 13):

Look at his age and you will see that he is not SRB.  Smile
Tom from Cologne
 
detroitflyer
Posts: 372
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 11:01 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:54 am

I dont quite get it.. How do u know if a plane is gonna reject takeoff before u have reached V1 ??
Boiler Up!!!
 
kaitakfan
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 1999 1:04 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:56 am

I thought I heard the new technical definition regarding V1 states that at V1 the decision HAS allready been made to continue or abort. This is due to the reaction time it would take the normal human being to process and evaluate what has occured. To abort right on the number of V1 could be a fatal deciscion. There are numerous runways that I have operated off of, that if we had an engine fire/failure at V1 and we aborted, we would be VERY lucky to stop on the remainder of the runway. Key West, comes to mind! I think next time I go in for recurrent, I want to see what happens down in EYW with an engine failure right at V1 to see how much runway we would have left if we really aborted.
 
sllevin
Posts: 3314
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 1:57 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:57 am

OTOH, I suspect SRB thinks of himself as falling into that age catagory... Smile

Steve
 
bphendri
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 5:58 am

Couldn't the nosewheel come off the runway, if you had a runaway trim condition before v1, or vr?

Or perhaps they had a C/G shift due to non secure cargo? Which caused the C/G to move far enough aft to start putting the plane on it's tail?
 
Curmudgeon
Posts: 682
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 7:19 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 6:19 am

Quoting Detroitflyer (Reply 16):
I dont quite get it.. How do u know if a plane is gonna reject takeoff before u have reached V1 ??

You don't necessarily. If the engine failure occurs at V1, you must continue or risk a runway overrun at a fairly high speed. An overrun can destroy the aircraft and endanger lives.

Anytime an event affecting* the safety of flight occurs before V1, it becomes a decision (Hence "decision speed" in the old nomenclature). Since transport jets will accelerate and climb away easier than they will stop, the decision gets more and more skewed towards continuing as the aircraft accelerates down the runway.

*affecting does not mean 'jeopardising'

BTW, on a 747 the load is locked in place and typically empty containers are loaded behind if there is empty space. It would take a hell of a load shift to change the C of G that much.

Trim excursions are controllable in transport jets, and there is a configuration warning system that monitors trim position.

V1 is always before Vr, sometimes by a large margin.
Jets are for kids
 
bphendri
Posts: 136
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:18 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:02 am

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 20):
BTW, on a 747 the load is locked in place and typically empty containers are loaded behind if there is empty space. It would take a hell of a load shift to change the C of G that much.

Trim excursions are controllable in transport jets, and there is a configuration warning system that monitors trim position.

I have heard of cargo shifting on a 74 (Not sure of the vairent other then it was a freighter), My friend said that fortunately it was after landing, and the weight shifted forward, and not back.

I am aware that a runaway trim condition can be cut off (Thats what those red guarded switches are for on the throttle quardrant). I was just hypthasizing what could cause the nosewheel to lift and cause a RTO, below V1. Nothing more
 
User avatar
flylku
Posts: 597
Joined: Sat Apr 08, 2006 10:44 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
V1 is the point at which there is not enough runway to stop the plane on the ground but it is not necessarily the point that the plane can take off. That is Vr. Vr can be before or after V1. This depends on the runway length. For example, take a Cessna and a 10,000 foot runway, You will pass Vr way before you ever come close to V1.

Good point. Isn't one of the runways at JFK nearly 14000 feet in length?

Also, I thought I had heard a story about an L1011 (years ago) aborting after becoming airborne and putting it back down so hard he cracked one of the spars. Sounds fantastic so maybe I am mixing it up with something else.
...are we there yet?
 
YYCowboy
Posts: 93
Joined: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:18 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 13):
is it safe to assume you're VS's CEO? Is it also safe to assume you're SRB?

SRB can be an a.netter just like anybody else. He is clearly an avaition enthusiast. Some of these threads must make him laff.

I would also take most peoples profile stats with a grain of salt, this is the internet BTW. Take a look at the countries some folks claim to come from. If the moon had a flag, you can bet their would be an a.netter from there.

His reply seemed reasonable to me.

It would be to cool to see VS birds in YYC
Its hard to soar like an eagle when you're flying with turkeys
 
mcdu
Posts: 1656
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2005 5:23 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:34 am

Quoting Airfoilsguy (Reply 10):
V1 is the point at which there is not enough runway to stop the plane on the ground

Well not exactly. That definition only applies to a balanced field where the accelerate stop equals the accelerate go distance. Back in the old days we operated out of many balanced fields. However, with the new technology airplanes and engines we operate from many unbalanced conditions. Often the crew will used reduced thrust or "Flex" if you are a Airbuser to balance the field, but even using less than max/toga for takeoff often results in stop margin beyond V1. The problem is we don't have a means of determining exactly how much runway is available after V1 so a pilot must use V1 as the decision speed but to either abort or continue, even though there might be runway available to stop the airplane.
 
Tristarsteve
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Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:48 am

Quoting Curmudgeon (Reply 20):
V1 is always before Vr, sometimes by a large margin.

So when I watch a lightly loaded B737 taking off from a runway that can handle B747s, and it is airbourne before the first intersection, Then if V1 is always before Vr then it bears no relation to the stopping distance. It is the speed of safe flight. Because this B737 could climb to 200ft, then land and stop in the remaining runway.
Yes I understand what V1 normally is, but I am talking about small aircraft on big runways. I cannot see how V1 can always be lower than Vr, and relate to stopping distance.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 8:54 am

I also know exactly what happened with G-VHOT on thursday and it was NOTHING like is described here... Certainly creative writing at its best...

Passenger safety was not compromised at any point... The pilots erred on the side of caution during the whole situation. Unlike BA, VS did NOT have a case of no-turn-back-itis...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
LHRSpotter
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:28 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:10 am

Quoting TinkerBelle (Reply 13):
Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 12):

A little ioff topic here but looking at your profile, you're a 'CEO for a major UK airline'. Since we're discussing VS here, and you said you were closely involved with the situation, is it safe to assume you're VS's CEO? Is it also safe to assume you're SRB?

Virgin Atlantic's CEO is NOT Sir Richard Branson (he is the Chairman). The CEO is Steve Ridgway. Not sure if he is in the 26-35 age group though.
 
TinkerBelle
Posts: 1436
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2005 7:46 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:29 am

Quoting LHRspotter (Reply 27):
Virgin Atlantic's CEO is NOT Sir Richard Branson (he is the Chairman). The CEO is Steve Ridgway. Not sure if he is in the 26-35 age group though.

Hmmm.. In that case......

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 12):

Hello Steve Ridgway!
If you are going through hell, keep going.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
Joined: Mon May 23, 2005 9:33 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 10:02 am

Quoting Planesarecool (Reply 4):
G-VLIP is Hot Lips. VHOT is Tubular Belle

That explains why this plane was possessed on this day...  Wink
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
VEEREF
Posts: 560
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 12:55 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:02 pm

Quoting TristarSteve (Reply 25):
So when I watch a lightly loaded B737 taking off from a runway that can handle B747s, and it is airbourne before the first intersection, Then if V1 is always before Vr then it bears no relation to the stopping distance. It is the speed of safe flight. Because this B737 could climb to 200ft, then land and stop in the remaining runway.
Yes I understand what V1 normally is, but I am talking about small aircraft on big runways. I cannot see how V1 can always be lower than Vr, and relate to stopping distance.

In that case, V1 and Vr would most likely be the same thing. That basically means that the runway is far longer than required and therefore a safe abort can be made right up to the point of rotation.
Even on the DC-10 at low weight/ long runway both speeds are very close to being equal.
Airplanes are cool. Aviation sucks.
 
Baron52ta
Posts: 182
Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2005 1:52 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 12:44 pm

Here are the FAA's definitions for V1,Vr and V2 since we are going to be technical

D. Vr Speed. Vr is defined as rotation speed and is
applicable to transport category airplanes certified under
SR 422A and later rules and commuter category airplanes.
Vr is determined so that V2 speed is reached before the
aircraft reaches35 feet above the runway surface. Vr may
not be less than Vmu or 1.05 Vmca.

E. V1 Speed. V1 speed is defined in Part 1 as “takeoff
decision speed” (formerly the critical engine failure
speed). V1 may be selected from a range of speeds. V1
may be selected as low as Vef but cannot exceed any of
the following speeds:
• Refusal speed (the maximum speed the aircraft
can be brought to a stop at the selected
weight and flap setting on the remaining runway)
• Vmbe (brake energy limit speed)
• Limiting tire speed (if one has been established)

H. V2. V2 is defined in Part 1 as “takeoff safety
speed.” V2 is used in multiengine transport, commuter
category, and large nontransport category airplanes. V2 is
the speed at which the airplane climbs through the first
and second takeoff segments. V2 must be greater than
Vmu and 1.1 Vmca. V2 must also be greater than the
followin
• 1.2 Vs1 for two-engine and three-engine
reciprocating and turbopropeller-powered
airplanes
• 1.2 Vs1 for turbojet airplanes without the
capability of significantly reducing the oneengine
inoperative stall speed (no flaps or
leading edge devices)
• 1.5 Vs1 for turbojet airplanes with more than
three engines
• 1.5 Vs1 for turbojet airplanes with thecapability for significantly reducing the one engine
inoperative stall speed
 
planesailing
Posts: 564
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 4:57 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 7:00 pm

Quoting LHRspotter (Reply 27):
Virgin Atlantic's CEO is NOT Sir Richard Branson (he is the Chairman). The CEO is Steve Ridgway. Not sure if he is in the 26-35 age group though.

He is 53 by all accounts.
 
kaddyuk
Posts: 3697
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2001 1:04 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sat Dec 09, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting Planesailing (Reply 32):
He is 53 by all accounts

And looking good for his age... He was at the Christmas Party last night...
Whoever said "laughter is the best medicine" never had Gonorrhea
 
xpfg
Posts: 577
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:17 pm

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Sun Dec 10, 2006 1:05 pm

Anyone catch this article about this? 300mph, eh? Ya, right!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv..._article_id=421294&in_page_id=1770
 
Leezyjet
Posts: 3544
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2001 7:26 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Mon Dec 11, 2006 5:51 am

"One passengers said of the failed take-off: "It was just like slamming on your brakes in the car at 300mph. A lot of people feared the worst." "

What car was that guy driving ?. Thrust SSC ?. Or maybe it was Richard Hammond !!!.

 Smile
"She Rolls, 45 knots, 90, 135, nose comes up to 20 degrees, she's airborne - She flies, Concorde Flies"
 
timboflier215
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:38 am

Quoting SevenHeavy (Reply 12):
The problem had nothing to do with sensor caps not being removed. In fact the main reason it returned to LHR the first time was that it had burned too much fuel to continue to JFK, due to prolonged flying at low level while the problem was rectifed.

So what exactly WAS the problem then?? Has anyone on here actually stated why the a/c turned back in the first place?!
 
airfoilsguy
Posts: 3485
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:28 am

RE: Bad Day For A VS744 Yesterday

Mon Dec 11, 2006 7:14 am

Quoting Leezyjet (Reply 35):
"One passengers said of the failed take-off: "It was just like slamming on your brakes in the car at 300mph. A lot of people feared the worst." "

Got to love the media. pick the dumbest person on the plane and quote them.
 Yeah sure
It's not a near miss it's a near hit!!

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