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airtran737
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:34 am

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 152):
Your going to have a lot of disgruntled rampers that aren't going to like working for airtran (for various reasons, I don't know them all) and aren't going to try as hard to do their jobs like before. Far be it easier and cheaper to lay off a majority of the newly merged worked force and train noobs at lower prices.

Apparently you arent aware of how YX fired all of their rampers and then hired new rampers making $7.25 an hour. Those retards will gladly take the $9.25 an hour that FL brings to the table as well as being able to fly for free, and a reduction in cost of health coverage.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:36 am

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 150):
I Just can't see where they would want to, or find any desire to expand MKE. We're pretty much maxed out on o/d already, so what good would expanding do? Connections?

Airtran passengers flying routes like DEN-MSP or LAS-FNT etc.. would be much better off connecting in MKE rather than flying all the way down to ATL and back North. I think this opens alot of connecting possibilities that before involved way too many air miles.
 
BH
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:37 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 155):
Apparently you arent aware of how YX fired all of their rampers and then hired new rampers making $7.25 an hour. Those retards will gladly take the $9.25 an hour that FL brings to the table as well as being able to fly for free, and a reduction in cost of health coverage

From what I understan all of the hourly employees current rate for YX range from $2-$8 a hour less than FL's.
 
baw2198
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:41 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 149):
Not sure what your point is. Efficient use of gates means as many departures from a gate as you can schedule (within reason).

Makes sense when the system works perfectly. Point is that if your going to push your efficiently to the limit, it makes good business sense to have alittle bit over what you really need to help out in case things hit the fan. The more times pax miss their connections, the less likely their are going to want to fly on either

A> your airline

or

B> through that hub (look at chicago)

So that means lost revenue. So at the cost of one or two extra gates (I don't how many YX has open during the day, I don't work there) Is it worth it not to have that built in to keep to your customer base happy and returning versus only paying for what your using?
"And remember, Keep your stick on the ice"--->Red Green
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:44 am

Quoting BAW2198 (Reply 152):
Then why hasn't airtran tried to aquire gate space at MKE on their own instead of merging.

You people need to wake up and smell the coffee! It's very difficult to grow a new hub in someone else's hub, that is why FL's MKE presence has been limited, but comparatively speaking, it could be considered a focus city.

If FL is delaying aircraft deliveries, but still wants to merge with YX, what do you suppose is the reason?????

It's MKE PEOPLE!!!

HELLO! THEY NEED ANOTHER HUB. WHERE ELSE ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET ANOTHER HUB?????
 
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TVNWZ
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 4:57 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 159):
HELLO! THEY NEED ANOTHER HUB. WHERE ELSE ARE THEY GOING TO BE ABLE TO GET ANOTHER HUB?????

And another 25 nifty 717s.
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:01 am

Quoting TVNWZ (Reply 160):
And another 25 nifty 717s.

Exactly .. to build up MKE and connect the dots to AirTran destinations.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:24 am

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 145):
And FL will build up MKE to get better utilization out of it.

How? There simply aren't enough passengers. Leonard says MKE has never seen FL-level fares. That's not true. NW provided FL type fares the last time they tried a major focus city. MKE consumers, for whatever reason, were uninterested. Why would FL be any different? FL hasn't really seen any success in MKE now. If they take away the MKE customer's beloved YX, I think you'll see unbelievable backlash. It will be worse than Macy's in Chicago.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:32 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 162):
How? There simply aren't enough passengers. Leonard says MKE has never seen FL-level fares. That's not true. NW provided FL type fares the last time they tried a major focus city. MKE consumers, for whatever reason, were uninterested. Why would FL be any different? FL hasn't really seen any success in MKE now. If they take away the MKE customer's beloved YX, I think you'll see unbelievable backlash. It will be worse than Macy's in Chicago.

It's called SCOPE. By flying to more destinations and offering more choices, you increase your passengers and your passenger flows. As far as NW offering low fares, NW couldn't afford to offer fares over the long-term that AirTran can offer.

The fact is folks, at some point within the next two years, Southwest will enter MKE. Once that happens, YX will be toast and there will be many job losses. YX is a great niche airline, and the management has done a tremendous job over the past couple of years, but the industry is not static. YX would not be able to survive 30-40 Southwest departures. Southwest's choices of new cities is dwindling, and MKE is a great option for them because of their MDW option, since ORD is not an option.

So, the question becomes, does YX go now, or go later ... Later will be a lot more painful, but I understand why many YX employees would rather take their chances. I"m just afraid your chances will run out within 24 months, which isn't a long time.
 
quickmover
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:40 am

How long is the wait for new 737s or 320s right now. My guess is that the high price of new aircraft and lack of availble ones might become an issue for YX. Of course, they could hold off growth or go with more md80s, but I'd bet they would rather go with new Boeings. The problem is new 737s are probably at least 2-3 years out.
 
mlsrar
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:52 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 155):
Apparently you arent aware of how YX fired all of their rampers and then hired new rampers making $7.25 an hour. Those retards will gladly take the $9.25 an hour that FL brings to the table as well as being able to fly for free, and a reduction in cost of health coverage.

While that was a underhanded move, and it has probably cost more than keeping the original YX rampers, in the long run, it was a cost-cutting effort, one of many.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 162):
How? There simply aren't enough passengers. Leonard says MKE has never seen FL-level fares. That's not true. NW provided FL type fares the last time they tried a major focus city. MKE consumers, for whatever reason, were uninterested.

This is true...people from MKE won't drive to MDW or ORD for low fares, hiawatha be damned. People didn't bail on YX when NW was offering incredulous deals. THere is a strange sense of loyalty that will not be retained in an acquisition scenario. This is NOT a knock on FL, but just a fundamental truth about the mindset of the MKE travelers.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
charlipr
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 5:56 am

Why don't just takeover Midwest but keep the Signature service that Midwest offered on there current routes, but rename that part of the airline as "AirTran Signature" JUST A THOUGHT!!!
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:03 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 163):
Southwest will enter MKE

Why haven't they already if it's such a lucrative market?

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 163):
As far as NW offering low fares, NW couldn't afford to offer fares over the long-term that AirTran can offer.

NW gave it about 2 years. Are you suggesting that FL ought to wait longer (in any market)?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
Indy
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:24 am

Quoting Luv2fly (Reply 154):
If this merger does happen in my opinion IND would be more effected then MKE. FL's focus would be on MKE more so than IND.

Unlikely. First FL has less than 20 flights a day here. Second MKE is a poorer location geographically speaking for connections. Third MKE is poorer in terms of O/D. I think this merger is about grabbing jets and nothing else. Why do you think FL passed on those 737's? I'd expect them to merge and FL take those 717's and move them to better routes. I think you'll see MKE limited more to business and leisure destinations and the connecting traffic will be moved elsewhere.

I might be wrong but MKE strikes me as the least attractive hub market of all the existing hubs in the U.S.
IND to RDU to OKC in 18 months. This is what my life has become.
 
YX717fan
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:31 am

YX is Milwaukee's pride and joy. Their service is amazing. Yes, YX and FL are similar in SOME ways. But lets compare the two. Midwest is smaller, but is very well known for their product. FL and YX both use 717's, but Midwest's are set up for luxury. If FL were to take them over, Milwaukee would probably lose the signature service we all love and appreciate. Their products are just too different, and there would be a huge outcry from Midwest fans.
Keep Midwest my Midwest
 
SeeTheWorld
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:31 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 168):
Why haven't they already if it's such a lucrative market?

Because Southwest has had better options over the past few years, but most of the options have been taken. There are not very many larger cities left that Southwest hasn't entered. MKE is moving up the list.
 
blhp68
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:40 am

My biggest concern as a traveler in and out of MCI, is the loss of a superior product. According to the combined route map MCI loses non-stops to BOS, PIT, FLL, and RSW. All important business or leisure destinations. Can anyone explain how this merger would benefit the travelers out of the KC area?
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:41 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 171):
There are not very many larger cities left that Southwest hasn't entered. MKE is moving up the list.

WN has no desire to tangle with either YX or FL. Why do you assume that WN wants to enter every city in the U.S?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
b737700doctor
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:46 am

I think this is great for all involved. In the MX depot their mx's will get a pay raise almost immediately. We as an combined airline would see more growth and maybe more orders for new planes. I wonder though if we would keep those deferred orders deferred or try to get them earlier. The MD-80's would fly for a little while then be replaced by 737's. The 717 would stay on. Airtran has 87 b717 40 b737, Midwest has 25 717's and 11 MD-80's. With 60 more 737's coming and 2 more MD80's for Midwest. So that would be 112-717's 40 737's and 13 MD-80's. Total 165 with 60 more 737's with a grand total of 212 (13 of the MD-80's being retired with 737's) airplanes by Jan of 2011, last 737 delivery.
Boeings are the best built planes
 
kevin752
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:55 am

Quoting Mke717spotter (Reply 11):
I hope it doesn't happen. Hasn't YX posted a couple of profits lately? I wouldn't YX to be gone away with when suddenly things are looking up for them.

I totally agree with this. I would no longer want to work for Midwest if they are a part of Air Tran. That would be not cool. I work for midwest and i have a sense of pride to work for them but if they merge then i would rather go work for Us Airways or American I just could not work for a company that does not know what customer serice is. Air Tran has a lot to learn about customer service before they should even consider Midwest airlines. well i hope Air Tran does not intend to keep long time Midwest passengers because they will not fly Ghetto Tran at all because that is not how Midwest is.
"Keep Climbing"
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:05 am

Quoting SeeTheWorld (Reply 163):
Southwest will enter MKE. Once that happens, YX will be toast and there will be many job losses

WN and YX seem to coexist just fine at MCI...
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
n917me
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:36 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 146):

Leonard also said AirTran would add more departures from Milwaukee's Mitchell International Airport, where Midwest offers 138 daily non-stop departures and controls just over 50% of the market. He suggested that fares would be lower, saying Milwaukee has not seen the "fare stimulation" that AirTran has brought to other markets.
AirTran is one of the nation's largest "low cost" carriers. Along with carriers such as JetBlue Airways Corp. (JBLU) and Southwest Airlines Co. (LUV), AirTran is a newer airline that offers lower fares than older, so-called legacy carriers, such as United Airlines (UAUA), American Airlines and Northwest Airlines Corp. (NWACQ).

lets bend over while Mr. Leonard continues to blow smoke up everyones a$$! Fares are going to be lower at MKE!!! FL will be dominate and able to set the fare it wants.



[quote=AirTran737,reply=155]Apparently you arent aware of how YX fired all of their rampers and then hired new rampers making $7.25 an hour. Those retards will gladly take the $9.25 an hour that FL brings to the table as well as being able to fly for free, and a reduction in cost of health coverage.

According to what FL has under their website, health care coverage will cost employees more. Futher, YX employees do fly free..no more service fees.
Also, starting pay for East Coast cities is 10.21/hr for YX....above what FL even offers
 
kstateinALB
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:40 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 136):
Its called access to a key airport.

I don't think United is going to live or die depending on JFK. They have IAD which is doing well for them. It's not like I don't agree that JFK is a key airport, its just not a key airport for United.

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 38):
Diametrically opposed levels of service with crap prevailing. You must like crap.

The sevice levels may be somewhat opposite, but its not like they can't keep the signature service in the product. If management sees that people fly because of the superior product, thats something they can add. Add XM with it, and it becomes a much greater product(not saying it isn't good right now).

And Boeing7E7... if I liked crap, I'd be flying other airlines instead of Airtran and Midwest.
 
msnyx
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 7:43 am

It would really be a stake in my heart to see YX get bought out. It is because of YX that I became obsessed with aviation and this website. When i was a child, my uncle, who had some ties with some YX mechanics, took me on a tour of the whole YX maintenance facility in MKE. I have been hooked on YX and A.net ever since. I really hope they pull through and remain YX.
If I rise on the wings of the dawn, if I settle on the far side of the sea, even there Your hand will guide me
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:28 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 116):
If AirTran believed in their product, they woudln't be bottom feeders picking up the left overs at the worlds largest hub.

They're doing better at Atlanta with Delta than Delta did at DFW with American.

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 126):
IIRC, in order to roll out those 'freshly baked' cookies and the BOB meals that YX currently offers; a plane needs to have something called a galley. To my knowledge none of FL's planes are equipped w/a galley. As a trade-off, FL's 717s have 3 lavs to YX's 2 on their 717s; I believe FL has 3 lavs on their 73Gs as well. So in all, likelihood YX's Signature Service would be phased out in a full-blown merger. Worth noting: the Business Class seats on FL's 73Gs are identical to YX's Signature Seats in every way except the upholstery color.

Fixable. Or unnecessary.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 128):
It's true that MKE residents are fiercely loyal to YX and that NW failed with the last attempt at a focus city. In the absence of YX, though, NW's brand loyalty in the market (they're easily the #2 carrier at MKE) and their superior product up front (where it matters for the high-yield customers that YX targets) will win out.

Love those Airlink CRJ's!

Seriously, it can work. It might not, but it could.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
steeler83
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 42):
If they want to grow, that's AirTran's problem. A merger for the sake of merging with what appears to be complete disregard for what Midwest is and what makes Midwest viable is just plane stupid.

Agreed

Quoting BH (Reply 47):
From what I am hearing FL is at the point that they will do what they have to do to get YX. They have voiced their hope to merge with them and I think that if YX does not agree they will take other courses of action to aquire them.

My GOD! FL has become USAir!!!! aaaaaaaaagh

The statement, "they need another hub," are you referring to YX or FL. If FL, they're already building MDW, IND and BWI... YX could use another hub I suppose, but for right now, they're focusing on MKE and MCI. I say they grow PIT, but they don't have money to burn really, and that's just me. Everyone would probably think I am nuts for saying that, with a few exceptions...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
 
ATWZW170
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 9:46 am

Being from WI and having flown on YX many times I can say that YX and FL is night and day. Now, lets set a few things straight - YX doesn't have the nicest employee's. They can be rude and short just like every other airline. The big difference is what they offer for things such as buy on board. They have TOP notch offerings, not just some "smoked turkey on mulitgrain bread"...it's actually something that is worth $10. The cookies are just another nice touch. Now, FL - when I have flown on them I think some of their flight crews can be very ghetto. Some of their crews tend to be very casual.

Every airline is full of the "vacation" types. It's the other mix of business passengers pay the bills - I just don't think FL attracts a huge number of professionals flying on business.
Success is getting what you want...happiness is liking what you get
 
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mke717spotter
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:31 am

Well it appears people in Milwaukee area won't be to happy if this merger goes through...
http://www2.jsonline.com/content/forum/airtran-forum.asp

Under press releases on YX's website it show that they have declinded the offer, so is it off for now or could things still change in the blink of an eye? Does it look like its gonna happen anytime soon or no?
Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
 
n917me
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:33 am

To: All Midwest and Skyway Airlines Employees
Date: December 13, 2006
From: Timothy E. Hoeksema
Subject: AirTran Offer

As you may have already heard, AirTran Holdings has proposed a merger between AirTran and Midwest Air Group -- an offer that the Midwest Air Group board of directors has turned down.

Our board, and its Board Affairs and Governance Committee, spent considerable time and effort evaluating AirTran's offer. The board concluded that it would not be in the best interests of the company, our shareholders and other stakeholders -- including customers, employees and the communities we serve -- to pursue discussions with AirTran. Specifically, the board feels that our strategic plan and remaining independent hold the best promise for continued growth and increased shareholder value going forward.

Consolidations such as the one proposed by AirTran are common in industries that are undergoing extensive change. You are well aware that the airline industry has endured years of poor performance. A number of airlines are discussing mergers in the hopes of improving their ability to compete. We have worked very hard in recent years to lower our costs and return to profitability -- accomplishments that also make us an attractive candidate for merger.

AirTran is today going public with its offer in an attempt to raise pressure on shareholders to convince the board to reconsider. Although this kind of news is certainly unsettling, I will repeat a message I have shared with you many times: the best way to ensure long-term survival is to provide customers with the best possible product and service in the most cost-efficient manner possible.

Please be assured that I will keep you updated as there is news to report.



December 13, 2006

Tim Hoeksema
Chairman, President and CEO

Hello, this is Tim Hoeksema with this week's Take Five. It's been an interesting day, to say the least, and I'd like to a few minutes of your time to expand on the decision by the Midwest Air Group board of directors to decline AirTran's proposed merger agreement.

Our board spent considerable time and effort evaluating AirTran's offer of $11.25 per share in cash and AirTran stock. As part of their evaluation, the board engaged investment banking firms and an outside consulting firm.

During their comprehensive review, those advisors considered the offer in light of Midwest's business and strategic plans. Under our strategic plan, we are projecting annual capacity growth of more than 10% over the next three years including a 50-seat regional jet program, along with significantly greater growth in profitability. Additionally, we view AirTran's offer at only about $5 per share, because it includes approximately $6 per share in cash that already belongs to our shareholders. As we announced this morning, the board determined that pursuing a merger with AirTran would not be in the best interests of the company, its shareholders and other stakeholders – including customers, employees and the communities the airline serves.

While it is the legal obligation of the board of directors to review credible offers, the board unanimously concluded that our business plan as a stand-alone company would support a considerably better return to our shareholders than AirTran's offer. We are successful because we provide customers with an exceptional travel experience. Our product and service are unique, and are not readily compatible with a merger with another carrier.

Like you, I have been overwhelmed by the groundswell of public support since the news became public today. We are very fortunate to have customers and shareholders who enthusiastically support our decisions and appreciate our efforts to provide "The best care in the air."

Please accept my personal promise that the board of directors and your senior leaders are committed to serving the best interests of all of our stakeholders, including our valued employees. Our business and strategic plans hold great promise for a future of growth in terms of cities, frequency and our fleet. For your part, I ask that you commit to remaining focused on the business at hand despite the distractions. Serve our customers and each other, and above all, provide our passengers with the safest possible travel experience. In other words, do what you've been doing so well for the past 22-plus years.

Thank you for listening today.
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 10:36 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 167):
WN has no desire to tangle with either YX or FL. Why do you assume that WN wants to enter every city in the U.S?

Because the WN business model is predicated on continuous expansion driving down the overall labor cost. They have to keep opening stations and adding jets to hire new employees at bottom-scale wages to offset the WN employees who are topping out at very high (in relation to the industry) wages. If they stop growing, those top-scale wages will very quickly make WN a high-cost carrier.

That's why you're seeing WN enter markets like IAD and DEN that the armchair analysts said would never happen. All the really good markets are already entered, so WN has to nibble around the edges, entering more and more marginal markets to keep the expansion up.

Southwest has to grow, or it dies.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
kstateinALB
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:11 am

I guess I'm going to make a prediction here. I can see this working with 3 main hubs, in ATL, MCI, and MKE. These three hubs can easily help the expansion into business markets as well as the leisure markets, especially in the western part of the U.S. I think that this merger could increase passenger numbers as people hear about this new airline. And also, I think that they can still keep the great service from YX and still keep FF's from YX interested enough to continue flying with them. It could work.
 
IndyCanuck
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:15 pm

Quoting ATWZW170 (Reply 176):
I just don't think FL attracts a huge number of professionals flying on business.

I think you would be surprised. I fly FL regularly on business, and my dad flies FL to Florida every week for business. I agree and understand that the service level on YX is a different level than FL, but for those of you who are bashing FL's product, I'll ask you this question; Have you flown on a legacy carrier lately?? I would hazard a guess that most people would far prefer the FL product to say the DL product. I'll use IND-ATL for my example. Hmmmm, brand new 737's and 717's with leather seats, XM radio, and cheap business class upgrades on FL or a tired MD-88 on DL. I will take the FL product over the domestic legacy product every time. I think those of you in MKE have been incredibly spoiled by the hometown airline made good and should take a look at the bigger picture. I'm not saying that this merger is good or bad, but just asking you to take of your blinders and look at the entire picture.
 
legacytravel
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:32 pm

As a MKE person. And yes YX does not trip my trigger I usually drive to ORD to fly UA. I love the channel 9.
My concern above and beyond the flying is what type of corporate citizen would FL be here in MKE. YX sponsors the Midwest Convention Center as well as alot of other corporate goodwill. YX is hooked up with the Brewers in summer and the official airline of the Bucks as well.
Would the funding dry up?? Who knows. It is a givin that the HQ would be gone south.
From a flying standpoint I can see some more flying coming here. MKE-SEA is one that comes to mind.
Regards,
Mark in MKE
I love the smell of Jet fuel in the Morning
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 12:50 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 174):
Love those Airlink CRJ's!

If YX were to disappear, either through merger or through acquisition, I would expect NW to add 20 to 25 daily flights to their current complement, of which probably at least 15 would be mainline. Capacity to hubs would go down some, but there would be a heavy mainline presence.

Quoting FCYTravis (Reply 179):

Because the WN business model is predicated on continuous expansion driving down the overall labor cost.

Continuous expansion is not sustainable. WN knows that. They realize plenty of cost savings in other areas.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
vivavegas
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:05 pm

Guess now that all the other A-netters from MKE have weighed in, it should be my turn.

The bad rap FL is getting on this group and local MKE media is downright outrageous! One local radio talkshow host called Airtran "a pile of crap" this after admitting he has only ever flown Airtran for one leg. Are kidding me?

The cheerleading I'm hearing about YX is incredible, you would think YX is the second coming of Christ! Sure I fly YX whenever possible from MKE primarily based upon non-stop flights, not the cookies, leather seats or footrests. And all of you YX cool-aid drinkers who rave about the level of service they provide must have had vastly different crews then I have had. Frankly I can't say I have ever had a standout service moment that would be so memorable that it sticks in my memory.

Other then the non-stop flights they offer the only other item that sticks in my mind is the continued raping my me and my company on the outrageous fares they insist on charging us for last minute flights to CLE, STL, MCI and others. We are not talking $50 or $100 here, the last rape was $900 vs. $200 (MDW) on a MKE-CLE run last week!

Trust me, I am not supporting this merger just because I am hoping for cheaper fares. I truly believe this would provide security to maintain the high level of service MKE currently enjoys. Especially in this new age of the mega-merger airlines we will see in 2007. Grow or Die!

Another grousing point is the loss of "Signature Service", that writing has been on the wall for sometime now, with arrival of the 73G/320 fleet that will be in a enhanced 2-class configuration. Come now or later, "Signature Service" will become "Signature Class". Like it or not!

As for the level of service operating from MKE, Airtran would be foolish to give away the 50%+ marketshare YX has worked so hard to grow. If anything I expect a strong growth especially for Skyway (feed options to BWI, ATL & MCO are not out of the question).

As for the financials of this deal, I think this deal will ultimately be completed in the ~$15-$20 range. (I do not hold YX or any airline stock).

 stirthepot   stirthepot   stirthepot   stirthepot 

Craig
MKE/UES
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
Boeing7E7
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 2:32 pm

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 185):
Other then the non-stop flights they offer the only other item that sticks in my mind is the continued raping my me and my company on the outrageous fares they insist on charging us for last minute flights to CLE, STL, MCI and others. We are not talking $50 or $100 here, the last rape was $900 vs. $200 (MDW) on a MKE-CLE run last week!

You're company has other options. Shut up.
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:20 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 146):
Someone mark the date on the calendar because for once I'm agreeing with Boeing7E7 about something...

SON OF A B!!!!!
 
iad51fl
Posts: 192
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:21 pm

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 3:41 pm

Quoting N917ME (Reply 171):
According to what FL has under their website, health care coverage will cost employees more. Futher, YX employees do fly free..no more service fees.
Also, starting pay for East Coast cities is 10.21/hr for YX....above what FL even offers

AirTran starts out on the East Coast at 10.00/hr... .21 really isnt that much of a diff... its the amount of the raise after the FL agents voted down the union.  Wink

I think that IF this does go through, to keep some of YX's customers there will need to be some changes made to the Business Class product. Otherwise we will lose them to other carriers. But what do I know I am just a agent  Smile)

Chris
IAD51FL
Enjoying the view of KIAH approach end of 27. 29.980548, -95.271201
 
FCYTravis
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 6:39 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 183):
Continuous expansion is not sustainable. WN knows that. They realize plenty of cost savings in other areas.

You're missing the point.

With the top-scale wages where they are for WN, they would be losing money hand-over-fist if, like the legacy carriers, most/all of their employees were being paid top-scale wages. Doesn't matter what cost savings they get in "other areas." They would not have the ability to raise revenues to offset those costs.

But because the majority of WN employees aren't being paid anywhere near top-scale, their average labor cost is brought much lower. With every year, however, all those lower-scale WN employees move up a step in the salary scale. Given that higher-scale employees do not generate more revenue per-person, it's simple math to figure out that as employees move up the ladder, WN's profitability moves downward. They're spending more money to pay the same people they had the year before and get (generally) the same revenues they had the year before.

But when WN adds a jet or opens a new city, voila - a whole bunch of new bottom-scale employees get added to the roster. They're generating lots of new revenue for a relatively much lower level of new spending. Instant cash cow.

This isn't some sort of impending disaster scenario, it's just reality. WN management knows it, and it's why they aren't opening eleventy billion new cities every year. Open one or two or three, and you can spread that growth out over much longer periods of time - as WN has done. It's taken them almost 30-odd years to become an airline of truly national scope, and in that time they've made squillions of dollars in profits.

I'm not badmouthing it at all - it's a great strategy. But like every strategy, it has its limitations. In the United States, at least, WN's running out of profitable places to expand to.

That's why I'm quite sure we'll see WN in Canada, Mexico and eventually overseas. Lots of room out there to grow - lots.
USAir A321 service now departing for SFO with fuel stops in CAK, COS and RNO. Enjoy your flight.
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:13 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 183):
If YX were to disappear, either through merger or through acquisition, I would expect NW to add 20 to 25 daily flights to their current complement, of which probably at least 15 would be mainline. Capacity to hubs would go down some, but there would be a heavy mainline presence.

I don't see NW again trying to make mainline non-hub service work. Their model of high-capacity hub service has proven successful time and time again. We loyal NW pax, especially elites have enabled them to maintain a significant enough presence to warrant a club, appropriate frequencies to their hubs, and surviving the outsourcing many other tier-2 outstations were subject to.

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 184):
One local radio talkshow host called Airtran "a pile of crap" this after admitting he has only ever flown Airtran for one leg.

Was that Belling? Turn the dial my friend...

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 184):
We are not talking $50 or $100 here, the last rape was $900 vs. $200 (MDW) on a MKE-CLE run last week!

Did you look at CO? I mean, there are other alternatives, and the fares, particularly flexible and walk-up fares are priced to what the market warrants. Do you realize what a pain it is to fly out of MDW?
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
airtran737
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:17 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 185):
You're company has other options. Shut up.

That's mature. Are you going to call him a doody head next?
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 191):

That's mature. Are you going to call him a doody head next?

This is one of the more venomous, and emotional threads I've ever seen regarding YX. Even when the NW expansion was announced, there weren't this many people coming out of the woodwork.

The problem is, you've got rabid YX fans, who have, in all likelihood never experienced FL's product, and I'll paraphrase Timmy here, defending their turf.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:27 pm

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 191):

That's mature. Are you going to call him a doody head next?

This is one of the more venomous, and emotional threads I've ever seen regarding YX. Even when the NW expansion was announced, there weren't this many people coming out of the woodwork.

The problem is, you've got rabid YX fans, who have, in all likelihood never experienced FL's product, and I'll paraphrase Timmy here, defending their turf.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:34 pm

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 189):
First of all, very adult-like comment. I would love to sit in a cubicle next to you in a work environment.



Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 189):
As for Boeing7E7, sharpen your response skills or move to another cubicle.

What's a cubicle? Is that where AirTran employees dream up ideas about a future that doesn't take into consideration market realities?

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 191):
That's mature. Are you going to call him a doody head next?

No. Might stick with something like stupid, ignorant, or out of touch though. Not having a cubical I can be a bit more to the point. Something more in line with the notion of this proposed takeover and the suggestions of the uninformed posting all the gibberish on this thread about how grand such a merger would be.

[Edited 2006-12-14 15:42:29]
 
vivavegas
Posts: 422
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RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:37 pm

Quoting Mlsrar (Reply 190):
Did you look at CO? I mean, there are other alternatives, and the fares, particularly flexible and walk-up fares are priced to what the market warrants. Do you realize what a pain it is to fly out of MDW?

CO plays that game as well with a $918 3-day fare for the privilege to ride a ERJ to CLE. These 3-day fares are not flexible, at least in this market, and is NOT based on capacity, as many a time these D328 / ERJ flights I am on are well under 50% cap.

I don't want to keep harping on the fare issues, but here is another example. I have a customer based in STL, she works with both my MKE area company and one based in CLE. For every job they are required to do an on-site inspection, her last flight STL-MKE on AA* was get this $1,027 for an ERJ. Her last run to CLE was $178 on CO (SWA fare match). Right there alone we are at a competitive cost disadvantage to our competitor in CLE.

Don't get me wrong on saying a AAI movement in MKE will drop fares in MKE to SWA levels as I have been pillaged by AAI a few times as well, I am just driving home the point of how having a LLC in your town, really makes a competitive difference for business. Cookies be damned!

And yes, MDW does suck to get to and is used on only the worst case senario, especially for my co-workers based in Sheboygan. But when a $1000 fare pops up on the screen and a $149 from SWA in MDW, we really have to give it some thought.

Craig
MKE/UES
MKE / EYW / LAS - The true trifecta of aviation!
 
mlsrar
Posts: 1384
Joined: Thu Mar 09, 2000 7:41 am

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:49 pm

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 195):
CO plays that game as well with a $918 3-day fare for the privilege to ride a ERJ to CLE. These 3-day fares are not flexible, at least in this market, and is NOT based on capacity, as many a time these D328 / ERJ flights I am on are well under 50% cap.

Then you need a new corp travel agency...the Y1 fare-basis for MKE-CLE, the highest in the market is 911.10, and is fully-refundable and is changeable:

FARE RULES TEXT
CHANGES
CHANGES PERMITTED.
NOTE -
A. UNUSED TICKETS ARE FULLY REFUNDABLE.
B. THE UNUSED PORTION OF A PARTIALLY USED TICKET
IS REFUNDABLE TO THE ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
WHEN ROUND TRIP FARES WERE ORIGINALLY USED - TO
DETERMINE THE REFUND - REPRICE THE ORIGINAL
OUTBOUND AS A OW FARE USING CURRENT REFUNDABLE
OW FARES. ANY RESIDUAL WILL BE REFUNDED TO THE
ORIGINAL FORM OF PAYMENT.
CHANGES PERMITTED.

Quoting Vivavegas (Reply 195):
I don't want to keep harping on the fare issues, but here is another example. I have a customer based in STL, she works with both my MKE area company and one based in CLE. For every job they are required to do an on-site inspection, her last flight STL-MKE on AA* was get this $1,027 for an ERJ. Her last run to CLE was $178 on CO (SWA fare match). Right there alone we are at a competitive cost disadvantage to our competitor in CLE.

Sorry dude, that's what the market supports. With YX and AA being the only entrants in the market, those are the fares. Try MKE-DTW, where NW is the only carrier. If WN were to be plying those routes, you can count on fares dropping. But, if they're booking those flights at those fares, then they will continue to be supported.

I don't understand why there is this expectation that every carrier in every market will unilaterally offer discount/deep-discount fares that offer the flexiblity that Y/B fares offer at a higher price.
I mean, for the right price I’ll fight a lion. - Mike Tyson
 
airtran737
Posts: 3489
Joined: Mon Apr 05, 2004 3:47 am

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Thu Dec 14, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting Boeing7E7 (Reply 194):
No. Might stick with something like stupid, ignorant, or out of touch though. Not having a cubical I can be a bit more to the point. Something more in line with the notion of this proposed takeover and the suggestions of the uninformed posting all the gibberish on this thread about how grand such a merger would be.

As much as you may not like it, it's most likely going to happen. Everyman has his price at which he will sell out what he believes in. Joe Leonard and Bob Fornaro are in MKE as we speak stroking those share holders egos with a big ole bag of money in their hands. If it doesn't happen, the no big deal. AirTran has money, they can find someone else, but YX really is the best fit.
Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
 
gr8slvrflt
Posts: 1485
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2002 10:53 pm

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:31 am

I don't even know where to begin. Portraying AirTran as an unprofitable bottom-feeder has no basis in fact. AirTran has posted a profit for seven consecutive years and is expected to make it number eight for 2006. There was a small loss the 3rd quarter but the 2nd quarter saw the highest ever quarterly profit. AirTran is number 4 on the latest JD Power survey for overall customer satisfaction (Midwest was 2).

AirTran has a healthy ratio of business customers and has built up a large loyal following despite Delta throwing everything they have at us. AirTran has also held its own competing against Southwest in Baltimore and Chicago and is thriving in Florida.

I don't see MKE being scaled back. AirTran has stated it will grow MKE. We will likely be adding nonstops from MKE to current AirTran cities and from Atlanta to YX cities (SAN, SAT, OMA). It looks like all AirTran's new 737 deliveries in 2007 will go to replace MD80s resulting in flat fleet growth next year. I foresee some reduced ATL frequencies as more traffic will be routed through MKE and MCI. As Midwest's 717s are converted to a two-class configuration, the minimum FA crew will go from 2 to three so more hiring there is a given.

AirTran seems to think Midwest will phase out dedicated Signature service in furture anyway and a two-class fleet is the way to go.

A FL/YX combination has been rumored for years and there are many compelling arguments in favor of such a merger.
I work for Southwest, but the views expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Southwest.
 
Mainland
Posts: 277
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:17 pm

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:04 am

Highlights from the AirTran conference call:

Official, Midwest signature service to be phased out:

"Stan Gadek - AirTran Holdings, Inc. - CFO

I think in terms of transition costs in the first year we have estimated in a range of $35 million to $40 million. And that would include reconfiguring the 717 aircraft to the 117 seats, as well as rationalizing the facilities, etc"


AirTran looking at larger planes for Skyways:

"Bob Fornaro - AirTran Holdings, Inc. - President, COO

Bob here. Again, another great question. And we’re certainly — we have not had a chance to do due diligence. And quite frankly we would like to review the numbers at Skyways. We are aware of their proposal. We understand it is 50 seaters. We think we might — we would probably prefer to see a bigger airplane there as part of our combination. Quite frankly, what we’ve noticed over time is low fares and 50 seaters is not a good combination. We have seen that the industry is migrating away from it. So certainly we would like to, if we had the opportunity, to reevaluate that transaction."


Don't believe the shotty route map powerpoint slide:

"Are we planning to pull out of any cities?

No, the plan for the new combined airline would be to continue to serve all of the existing U.S. destinations served today by both AirTran Airways and Midwest and to add additional service points as the combined fleet expands."
You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
 
Boeing7E7
Posts: 5512
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2004 9:35 pm

RE: Airtran Proposes Merger With Midwest Air

Fri Dec 15, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting AirTran737 (Reply 197):
Everyman has his price at which he will sell out what he believes in. Joe Leonard and Bob Fornaro are in MKE as we speak stroking those share holders egos with a big ole bag of money in their hands. If it doesn't happen, the no big deal. AirTran has money, they can find someone else, but YX really is the best fit.

You really think it's that simple don't you. There is no fit other fleet mix. Joe Bob can yap it up all they want. I hope they like the preverbial finger.

Quoting Gr8SlvrFlt (Reply 198):
I don't even know where to begin. Portraying AirTran as an unprofitable bottom-feeder has no basis in fact.

When they return to profitability, you can use this statment. Until then, forget it. AirTran is a bottom feeder. They pick up overflow Leisure pax at a Business pax driven hub. That is the definition of a bottom feeder.

[Edited 2006-12-14 17:11:52]

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