jimyvr
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Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:01 am

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/061214/110495.html

The 300th destination served by Delta plane is: La Paz, Mexico, to be launched on 15DEC06.

Also this weekend's expansion continues the largest single month of expansion into Latin America in Delta's history with 16 new routes in 22 days.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:10 am

This isn't supposed to happen. DL is bankrupt. This shouldn't be.  Smile

Any reports on how the new Africa flights are doing?

I'm sure bookings to Latin America on the new flights are very strong through the holidays.
 
Mitchell Gant
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:14 am

DL is bankrupt and only time will tell if this massive international expansion will prove to be successful. DL will need to stimulate significant demand on a year-round basis in many of these markets if they plan to be viable.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:36 am

DL's expansion didn't start this summer. They've been adding flights for several years. The evidence is there that the expansion is making sense.

Traffic data is also being released which shows that DL is indeed matching the capacity to the demand in the market. Despite adding soemting like 30% more capacity over the summer, DL actually increased its unit revenue performance on its international system. DL's international expansion is successful.

What so many people find so hard to believe is that no other airline managed to think of flying to all of the places DL is starting service to - and to add insult to injury a bankrupt airline is the one that is opening up all these markets. And at the same time they are improving the quality of their product, adding amenities that don't even exist on some of the US' "top tier" int'l airlines.

As I've said all along, DL isn't DOING bankruptcy the way it has been done in the past - or the way alot of people think it should be done. And it is precisely for that reason that DL will emerge from BK as a much more international and stronger airline.
 
BigGSFO
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:46 am

How many destinations are actually served by DL metal vs. Skywest or ASA?
 
AirCop
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 11:56 am

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
How many destinations are actually served by DL metal vs. Skywest or ASA?

That is my question also. It amazes me how these airlines can claim they serve lets say Medford, Oregon yet they don't fly there, and if something goes wrong with the service they are not responsible.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:30 pm

All of the network airlines assume financial responsibility for the service performed by their regional partners. They also control the revenue so they very much are responsible for what goes on... as evidenced by the performance clauses that exist in all of their regional carrier contracts.

At one time, the number of cities served by Delta Air Lines was about 200. Given that the only service performed by Delta Connection carriers is in N. America, there are easily 50-75 cities served by Delta outside of the US (including Mexico). And while there are many cities that are served by Delta Connection, an aweful lot of regional flights are to cities that are also served by Delta itself. I would guess that Delta Connection probably serves 50-75 cities on its own. If that's true, Delta Air Lines still serves 75% of those 300 cites itself.

I'll try to verify some of those counts - somewhere. Anyone who can provide the info is welcome to do so.
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Fri Dec 15, 2006 12:37 pm

update -

according to DL's 2005 10K filing with the SEC, as of Dec 31, 2005 DL served 144 cities in the US plus 59 cities in 41 foreign countries. The total systems served by Delta and Delta Conx isn't listed but including codeshares of all kinds, the total is over 400 cities. That was obviously before the big int'l expansion this summer which has added something like 20 overseas destinations plus alot of expansion to the Caribbean. Most of the LAX expansion is on Delta Connection so they have not been left out.

I'd still guess that at least 2/3 and probably closer to 75% of DL's cities are served at least partly with DL metal.
 
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airzim
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:18 am

So did Aeroflot.

You just have to laugh, Delta is such a joke. Even the employees don't buy it.

I just flew JFK to the West Coast this week in First on Delta and it was disgraceful. While I always maintain the cabin crew is first rate (I'll ignore the bitching about being bankrupt and not paying their bills with the IFE needed to be rebooted 3 times in flight), but the terminal at JFK was a disgrace. The gates where the Business Elite check-in is is laughable. How embarrassing.

Given the glowing reports on this site about the new transcon service I was actually looking forward to flying it. Don't bother. The First Class service was very average, no meal choice, no menu, no table cloth (they laid down a piece of paper), only one service, coffee cups were paper. Doesn't even hold a candle to AA, UA or even CO's transcon service.

While many will maintain that these are trivial items, added together these things matter. Especially when you're paying for First Class service, just to clarify I was not upgraded.

So good luck Delta on your worldwide Greyhound expansion.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:01 am

Love how there can never, ever be a positive thread on Delta without someone p!ssing on it, lovely  Yeah sure .
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:29 am

While the man does have alot of negative things to say about DL, he experienced its service and wasn't happy. He is free to make comments about something he has personal experience and knowledge about... I would far rather see a customer make a negative comment than someone who is shooting from the hip. I don't know what DL offered on the transcon service he offered but believe DL does need to continue to upgrade its first class product. Remember, though, that DL is offering a domestic FC product while AA and UA offer a pseudo-int'l product. DL's service should be comparable to CO's which offers a similar product. Remember though that DL walked away from the transcon market for over a year. It takes time to rebuild loyalty - and that includes having customers pay for the level of service they are offered. DL's FC transcon loads appear to be improving so I think their strategy of rebuilding that market is working - but it takes time!

The terminal problem isn't going to fix itself overnight. Remember that DL was within weeks of signing a contract for a new terminal on 9/11. DL didn't and they are growing their operation at JFK. AA did buy a new terminal and they aren't growing because their JFK costs are too high to compete in the new fare environment and up against a more cost competitive DL. I think I'd rather see DL do what they have to do to capture a viable place in the NYC market and then build something they can afford rather than going out on a limb that could hurt them down the road. DL will build something to upgrade its facilities at JFK when they can and are out of bankruptcy.
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:30 am

I've been following DL's expansion on its website and here as well. I for one was very happy they added DUS to their list of new destinations. I haven't had the chance to fly that sector yet but I hope it will be around for a while so I can. Anyone know if DL is happy with this route?

Just one thing that I can't get out of mind everytime I read about a new DL int'l destination .... are they trying to be another Pan Am? What I mean is in its heyday a person could get just about anywhere in the world with PAA. I hope this isn't what DL is trying to copy. We all know what happend to PAA.

While I understand DL can make more money on int'l segments wouldn't it be wiser to increase frequencies in certain markets, e.g. FRA, CDG, AMS and Latin America? I know how excited many are about DL going to South Africa and their efforts to expand in Asia I just hope they are spreading the icing on the cake a bit too thin.
A330 man.
 
DAL767400ER
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:46 am

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 13):
While I understand DL can make more money on int'l segments wouldn't it be wiser to increase frequencies in certain markets, e.g. FRA, CDG, AMS and Latin America?

Not really. Competition at the 3 Euro hubs you mentioned is already pretty intense, and in the case of AMS, one could also say the market is overserved, and as such yields are not that good. Certain Latin American markets also have a great deal of competition as well, whereas South Africa as an example is a place where options are limited, and as such fares tend to be higher, making the market more attractive. Only indirect competition is SAA, and depending on the destination, a connection in ATL looks certainly more attractive than at IAD or JFK, e.g. from California, or DFW/IAH. Same for example with the soon-to-start ATL-PRG/VIE services. Sure, new destinations mean startup costs, but when you can pretty much dictate the fares for the amenity of not having to connect on a two-hour layover at some Euro hub, in the case of markets like BOM, KBP, VCE or OTP, just to name a few, it makes it very attractive.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 1):
Any reports on how the new Africa flights are doing?

JNB is very low risk, because they were selling South African Airways seats for years. Officially too early to tell on DKR/JNB/ACC.

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 4):
How many destinations are actually served by DL metal vs. Skywest or ASA?



Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
It amazes me how these airlines can claim they serve lets say Medford, Oregon yet they don't fly there, and if something goes wrong with the service they are not responsible.

I know... I hate the disconnect.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 6):
All of the network airlines assume financial responsibility for the service performed by their regional partners. They also control the revenue so they very much are responsible for what goes on... as evidenced by the performance clauses that exist in all of their regional carrier contracts.

Yes, but there is a disconnect.

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 13):
While I understand DL can make more money on int'l segments wouldn't it be wiser to increase frequencies in certain markets, e.g. FRA, CDG, AMS and Latin America? I

FRA is pretty well covered by DL - ATL multi x at times, CVG, JFK; AMS is probably overserved to the USA (And DL starting codeshares with KL); DL still codeshares a lot of USA-CDG flights on AF; and finally AA has a strong hold on Latin America, and DL is almost pushing its luck. Helped by the collapse of USA-Brazil service on RG.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
cgnnrw
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:02 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 14):
Not really. Competition at the 3 Euro hubs you mentioned is already pretty intense, and in the case of AMS, one could also say the market is overserved, and as such yields are not that good. Certain Latin American markets also have a great deal of competition as well, whereas South Africa as an example is a place where options are limited, and as such fares tend to be higher, making the market more attractive. Only indirect competition is SAA, and depending on the destination, a connection in ATL looks certainly more attractive than at IAD or JFK, e.g. from California, or DFW/IAH. Same for example with the soon-to-start ATL-PRG/VIE services. Sure, new destinations mean startup costs, but when you can pretty much dictate the fares for the amenity of not having to connect on a two-hour layover at some Euro hub, in the case of markets like BOM, KBP, VCE or OTP, just to name a few, it makes it very attractive

Can't argue with you on any points there mainly because I'm not in the airline business and have zitch clue how is all works. However, the little tidbits I get from here and there, I still can't help but think DL is trying too hard to be the airline which flies "everywhere". Biggest is not always the best....

Anyway, good luck to DL where ever they fly.

p.s. anyone know how DL is doing on the DUS-ATL route?
A330 man.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Cgnnrw (Reply 16):
anyone know how DL is doing on the DUS-ATL route?

Since you asked twice, I will tell you the obvious answer, if the flight lasts more than 6 months, it is successful.

Take CDG-MAA. It lasted around 6 months, and was canned. So, the aircraft are perceived better utilized and chance of profit elsewhere.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
worldtraveler
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 3:09 am

MAA was a victim of the nonstop flights from India to the US which are quickly pulling prime business passengers off of European onestops and connections. DL had no choice but to start JFKBOM nonstop.

As for the disconnect between mainline and regional or partner service, I don't know of a single large carrier in the world that operates every flight that uses its flight number on its own. Codesharing is common and so is contract flying. While it is frustrating, the US has some of the most strict rules regarding disclosure re: the operating carrier so I find it hard to believe that anyone cannot find out if they who want to know if a carrier actually operates a flight on its own metal or not.

I don't think DL is trying to be the new Pan Am - and even if they were DL has a very strong domestic route system to back up its international routes, something Pan Am never had. The reason why DL's ATL international operation is so big and there is virtually no limit to what destinations DL can add is because ATL is so powerful at connecting traffic to every destination that has any value.

DL is in a position to expand so much internationally because they had a fleet of 40 international capable 767s operating on their domestic system. Because US airlines have not done a very good job of developing true global networks when compared to the big 3 European carriers, DL found dozens of markets around the world to fly those airplanes to which has allowed them not to get rid of modern aircraft while reducing capacity on their domestic system. Their focus has primarily been across the Atlantic and to Latin America but I fully expect that DL's expansion will be more focused on South and East Asia as the 777LRs and 757s come online since the 757s can replace some 767s on European routes which could in turn allow 767s to be used for more Africa, Middle East, or East Asia service. Since NW and CO start getting 787s in 2 years, DL has to continue to move quickly to pick off markets it wants to serve.

I knew the Africa flights are fairly low risk but wondered if there is any recent updates... both flights seem to be operating on-time and the seat maps seem to be reasonably full before dept.

The fact that DL reported a healthy profit in this past 2nd quarter despite starting up dozens of new routes says they are balancing their int'l expansion with maintaining and developing their domestic system as well as their existing int'l system. And even though DL is diversifying its identity away from western Europe, they still are the #1 or #2 US airline in most European cities other than London which hasn't changed much in the past five years. DL's double transatlantic hub (JFK and ATL) strategy supplemented by CVG and other gateways DL might add will allow them to have a more comprehensive network than other carriers. I expect their Pacific network will develop in the same way.
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:08 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
I don't know of a single large carrier in the world that operates every flight that uses its flight number on its own.

Not sure of your criteria of large, but: WN, FL, SQ, KE, LY, EK, CX, EY do this off the top of my head (no contract flying - like Delta Connection).

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
DL is in a position to expand so much internationally because they had a fleet of 40 international capable 767s operating on their domestic system.

(And that international expansion....) At the expense of hemorrhaging domesitc mainline capacity. Oh yeah, they removed MD-11, 762's, 733's, 732's, and 4 763d's from the fleet.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
jimyvr
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:24 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 3):
DL's expansion didn't start this summer. They've been adding flights for several years. The evidence is there that the expansion is making sense.

Actually, it's simply rather resuming all those European routes that they abandoned in late 90s.
1000 - 01MAR07 | http://airlineroute.blogspot.com/
 
MD-90
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 4:52 am

Quoting Delta787 (Reply 9):
As usual, only your opinion counts and everyone else is wrong. This post, like all of yours, is filled with the same bash Delta shit. Please grow up moron.

I don't know exactly how much a transcon First ticket on Delta costs, but for the money, he has every right to complain if it wasn't up to snuff.
 
FlyPNS1
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:05 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 18):
The fact that DL reported a healthy profit in this past 2nd quarter despite starting up dozens of new routes says they are balancing their int'l expansion with maintaining and developing their domestic system as well as their existing int'l system

But if you remember, those numbers showed DL losing money on both transatlantic and latin american operations. Domestic made all the profits which occurred by rapidly slashing domestic capacity.
 
positiverate
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:18 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):
So did Aeroflot.

You just have to laugh, Delta is such a joke. Even the employees don't buy it.

I just flew JFK to the West Coast this week in First on Delta and it was disgraceful. While I always maintain the cabin crew is first rate (I'll ignore the bitching about being bankrupt and not paying their bills with the IFE needed to be rebooted 3 times in flight), but the terminal at JFK was a disgrace. The gates where the Business Elite check-in is is laughable. How embarrassing.

Given the glowing reports on this site about the new transcon service I was actually looking forward to flying it. Don't bother. The First Class service was very average, no meal choice, no menu, no table cloth (they laid down a piece of paper), only one service, coffee cups were paper. Doesn't even hold a candle to AA, UA or even CO's transcon service.

While many will maintain that these are trivial items, added together these things matter. Especially when you're paying for First Class service, just to clarify I was not upgraded.

So good luck Delta on your worldwide Greyhound expansion.

Blah blah blah...DL sucks...blah blah blah...they're never going to make it...blah blah blah...the employees deserve what they get...blah blah blah.

At least you're consistent. Too bad it's the only thing you are.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 5:30 am

Quoting B4real (Reply 19):
Not sure of your criteria of large, but: WN, FL, SQ, KE, LY, EK, CX, EY do this off the top of my head (no contract flying - like Delta Connection).

I am not really sure if you mean that all of the flight numbers of these airlines are there metal or not but I have seen mulitiple times these airlines either being on some other flight number also or there flight numbers being flown here in the US.

for example:

DL7850 also known as KE36 ATL-ICN
CX7780 also known as AA330 YVR-DFW

Now my understanding is that when a connection carrier such as skywest partners with delta for example, Delta handles everything from the ticketing to the scheduling. The only thing skywest does is train the pilots and operate the aircraft. Delta even takes the airfares and then pays skywest the amount for the flight and keeps the rest. There is very little risk involved on the side of the connection carrier, as long as they can keep the partnership going, something I hear Mesa is having trouble with. I could be wrong here but correct me if I am this is just how I understand it.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
Evan767
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):
You just have to laugh, Delta is such a joke. Even the employees don't buy it.

I just flew JFK to the West Coast this week in First on Delta and it was disgraceful.

Anyway...... What does that have anything to do with Delta serving 300 cities? Totally irrelevant. If you want to complain about Delta's "laughable" service, then take your BS elsewhere and start you're own thread. Can we please get back to the topic on hand Airzim?

Congratulations Delta!
The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
 
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airzim
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:05 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
Blah blah blah...DL sucks...blah blah blah...they're never going to make it...blah blah blah...the employees deserve what they get...blah blah blah.

At least you're consistent. Too bad it's the only thing you are.

Talk about a broken record that is consistently wrong about what I say. I have never said "they're never going to make it" despite repeated allegations by you. I've never said "the employees deserve what they get," despite repeated allegations by you, I have only ever criticized the managements boneheaded decisions which includes product offerings (two distinct products offerings across the network), route management (capacity dumping in Europe and Latin America), and corporate strategy. In fact in my post above I actually praised the employees, which is very consistent I might add. I've even said the Delta Shuttle is by far and away the best way to travel in the industry. The fact that you and other diehards can't take ANY criticisms despite people poking obvious holes in your defensive arguments continues to be laughable.

The fact is Delta has some serious problems. They seem to be shooting for the LCD of passenger traffic. I for one will not fly DL transcon given the product offering when there are multiple other competitors that offer equal or better service for similar prices. I'm still a consumer, and you may not like my opinion but I'm not the only one who feels this way.

Being biggest isn't the best.
 
rwsea
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:20 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
The fact is Delta has some serious problems. They seem to be shooting for the LCD of passenger traffic. I for one will not fly DL transcon given the product offering when there are multiple other competitors that offer equal or better service for similar prices. I'm still a consumer, and you may not like my opinion but I'm not the only one who feels this way.

You've been saying the same thing about DL for months, but then you buy expensive first-class tickets on their transcons? And now you say you won't fly them? Sounds like you're not consistent at all.
 
mpdpilot
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 6:57 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
The fact is Delta has some serious problems. They seem to be shooting for the LCD of passenger traffic. I for one will not fly DL transcon given the product offering when there are multiple other competitors that offer equal or better service for similar prices. I'm still a consumer, and you may not like my opinion but I'm not the only one who feels this way.

I think delta is improving their product, but that takes time and money. an airline can't just change the whole interior of airplane over night. on the other hand if you have the aircraft you very well can start using that aircraft on a different route over night, in a matter of speaking. So I think delta has it right use the aircraft they have to boost their network and improve the product in the time you have. If I were you I might re evaluate the "never fly delta transcon again" thing in a couple of years when they have had time to finish the fleet, makeover. I don't think delta has any more problems than anyother carrier and I also think that everyone of the problems you mention are being solved as we speak, at least they better or your right delta will be in a really bad place.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
767Lover
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 7:47 am

Quoting AirCop (Reply 5):
That is my question also. It amazes me how these airlines can claim they serve lets say Medford, Oregon yet they don't fly there, and if something goes wrong with the service they are not responsible.

Bingo. I remember SR111 when Delta barely had any acknowledgement on its web site (despite booking passengers as DL111)

As a resident of ATL and therefore someone who will most definitely be affected if DL goes under, I would prefer to see them focus more and get their business processes perfected, than worry about being the number one carrier in terms of destinations.

[Edited 2006-12-15 23:49:38]
 
B4REAL
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:24 am

Quoting MPDPilot (Reply 24):
..........

We're trying to distinguish codeshare vs. contract flying. To be clear, neither are "own metal" flights. Somewhat debatable in the case of Comair, which is owned by DL from customer perspective. DL makes it clear that it is a separate airline.

Contract Flying

Would be where a DL ticket would operate on an aircraft that would have part of the name and visible appearance of the parent airline or ticket issuer. Examples, Continental Express, Delta Connection carriers, American Eagle, Northwest Airlink, US Airways Express, United Express, American Connection, etc. This has inherent codeshare, in the case of Delta, it is called only 'codeshare' but DL claims them in the 300 cities they serve.

Codesharing

Is where airline sells seats on another airline. Best example are AS and HA, as they are generally neutral. DL would sell on LY or AF to stretch markets, for example. These would not be in the '300' by DL.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
B777-700
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:40 am

Quoting Mitchell Gant (Reply 2):
DL will need to stimulate significant demand on a year-round basis in many of these markets if they plan to be viable.

You have an astute command of the obvious.

In a related story, in order to win the football game, the Philadelphia Eagles will have to score more points than the Dallas Cowboys.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):
You just have to laugh, Delta is such a joke. Even the employees don't buy it.

Simply not true. Just window dressing to try to add some credibility to your fairytale.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):
I just flew JFK to the West Coast this week in First on Delta and it was disgraceful.

I have serious doubts you actually did, but please do go one without any flight information...

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):
(I'll ignore the bitching about being bankrupt and not paying their bills with the IFE needed to be rebooted 3 times in flight),

Absolutely zero truth to that.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):

So good luck Delta on your worldwide Greyhound expansion.

Thanks! That's fare from the truth too, but thanks!

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
The fact is Delta has some serious problems.

This is a statement of fact, therefor I'll assume you have documentation to back it up. Please share or admit it's just your opinion.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
They seem to be shooting for the LCD of passenger traffic.

Quite the opposite.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
I for one will not fly DL transcon given the product offering when there are multiple other competitors that offer equal or better service for similar prices.

And yet you did.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
I'm still a consumer, and you may not like my opinion but I'm not the only one who feels this way.

And somewhere there's someone saying the same thing about CO, UA, NW, US, B6, ect...

Welcome to the revolving door. Don't let it hit ya where the good lord split ya.
If you don't chew Big Red, then @#$% you.
 
nzrich
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RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 10:50 am

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 23):
Quoting Airzim (Reply 8):So did Aeroflot.

You just have to laugh, Delta is such a joke. Even the employees don't buy it.

I just flew JFK to the West Coast this week in First on Delta and it was disgraceful. While I always maintain the cabin crew is first rate (I'll ignore the bitching about being bankrupt and not paying their bills with the IFE needed to be rebooted 3 times in flight), but the terminal at JFK was a disgrace. The gates where the Business Elite check-in is is laughable. How embarrassing.

Given the glowing reports on this site about the new transcon service I was actually looking forward to flying it. Don't bother. The First Class service was very average, no meal choice, no menu, no table cloth (they laid down a piece of paper), only one service, coffee cups were paper. Doesn't even hold a candle to AA, UA or even CO's transcon service.

While many will maintain that these are trivial items, added together these things matter. Especially when you're paying for First Class service, just to clarify I was not upgraded.

So good luck Delta on your worldwide Greyhound expansion.
Blah blah blah...DL sucks...blah blah blah...they're never going to make it...blah blah blah...the employees deserve what they get...blah blah blah.

At least you're consistent. Too bad it's the only thing you are.

Maybe Delta should look at some quick and cheap ways to improve their product and make it better..
You might not like what he has to say but i have traveled many times business class and i have to say their are some minimum things you do expect when flying business / first

1 A meal choice depending on length of flight
2 Linen for a table cloth (not paper)
3 A menu
4 Real coffee cups (not paper)

Those 4 things are not major items to improve a service

The IFE having to be rebooted well that could just of been having a bad day like all airlines do with entertainment systems at some stage at least the crew were trying to fix it..

The terminal and gates at JFK well i dont think Delta owns that so they cant be held responsible for that .. They may have some influence but in the end thats another companies responsibility
"Pride of the pacific"
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 12:56 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 19):
WN, FL, SQ, KE, LY, EK, CX, EY do this off the top of my head (no contract flying - like Delta Connection).

While these carriers may not have contract flying, they do in fact codeshare - including WN. Codesharing is no more control of the product than contract flying is.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 22):
But if you remember, those numbers showed DL losing money on both transatlantic and latin american operations. Domestic made all the profits which occurred by rapidly slashing domestic capacity.

AND did DL ever tell you they would be making money in every quarter in every region? You do know, for instance, that CO does not make money on its domestic system and hasn't for several years. Nobody is saying that CO is in trouble. DL's domestic system was the 2nd most profitable per ASM behind NW in the 2nd quarter.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
The fact is Delta has some serious problems. They seem to be shooting for the LCD of passenger traffic. I for one will not fly DL transcon given the product offering when there are multiple other competitors that offer equal or better service for similar prices. I'm still a consumer, and you may not like my opinion but I'm not the only one who feels this way.

While you may not like DL's product, the simple fact is that DL's customer service ratings are going up - a virtually unheard of accomplishment for a bankrupt airline. You are free to say that you didn't like DL's service but don't extrapolate or generalize your perceptions because STATISTICALLY your generalizations just don't hold water.

Being one of the top rated carriers in customer service AND flying to 300 cities - including contract flying - is a distinction no other airline can say.
 
mpdpilot
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:44 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting B4real (Reply 30):
We're trying to distinguish codeshare vs. contract flying. To be clear, neither are "own metal" flights. Somewhat debatable in the case of Comair, which is owned by DL from customer perspective. DL makes it clear that it is a separate airline.

I wasn't saying that they were contract fly as much as i was saying that the flight number doesn't determine who's aircraft is actually flying the route, perhapps I could have been clearer. thank you for the information about contract flying I never understood it very well.
One mile of highway gets you one mile, one mile of runway gets you anywhere.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 1:44 pm

So exactly how many destinations does DL fly with their own metal not including regionals and codesharing cause I know for the fact they don't fly to smaller places only their regionals and or codesharing?. I know American has way more than DL and their regionals if AA includes AA regionals too  Smile
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sat Dec 16, 2006 11:52 pm

I havn't seen a complete count but my best estimate is that DL flies to approx. 225 cities with its own metal. Some of those cities are also served by delta conx but you can fly DL metal in approx 75% of its DL/DCI cities.

What is your count for AA?

BTW, any early word on how the LAX-Latin America/CA went since yesterday was the first day? I believe these flights are also the only current overnight flights by ASA.
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:15 am

So the post should have said DL and connectors are the only carriers to fly to 300 cities.. I think AA and AA eagle flies to 300 cities since AA eagle is the largest or one of the biggest regional carriers. So I figure DL isn't the only carrier.

Here's what I got from AA website.

AA flies to 172 cities
AA Eagle flies to 161 cities
AA Connections consists of Chautauqua Airlines, Inc., Trans States Airlines
Regions Air, Inc flies to 95 cities. Total of 428. Now if you take AA Connections out of the equations thats a total of 333.

Here's what I got from DL website.

Delta Air Lines (Other OTC: DALRQ) offers customers service to more destinations than any other global airline with Delta and Delta Connection carrier service to 292 destinations in 46 countries.

So your post if false advertisement..
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5480
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:56 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 33):
Codesharing is no more control of the product than contract flying is.

Absolutely false. DL has a lot of control over the contract product. Not only does the contract have certain performance requirements (on-time, baggage handling, etc), but there are also on-board service requirements. For example, DL has Shuttle America provide additional catering for E170 flights out of LGA to ORD/DFW.

With codesharing, you have no control on the product.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 33):
AND did DL ever tell you they would be making money in every quarter in every region?

Certainly not, but it's not a good sign to be losing money to Europe in the 2nd quarter. It undermines your claim that DL took on all this international expansion without any impact to its financials.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 36):
I havn't seen a complete count but my best estimate is that DL flies to approx. 225 cities with its own metal.

I think your number is a little high. Here's a list of DL Connection only cities:

BGR, PWM, MHT, BTV, HPN, ISP, BGM, TTN, ACY, MDT, ERI, ABE, AVP, SCE, ILG, CHO, LYH, ROA, CRW, LWB, HTS, OAJ, FAY, ILM, AVL, SOP, MYR, FLO, TRI, CHA, AGS, MCN, CSG, VLD, ABY, BQK, MGM, DHN, TUP, MEI, GTR, PFN, GNV, APF, EYW, CAK, TOL, TVC, FNT, AZO, LAN, GRR, FWA, SBN, EVV, MDW, PIA, BMI, MLI, MSN, ATW, GRB, FAR, FSD, RAP, OMA, CID, DSM, ICT, SGF, TUL, XNA, SHV, AEX, MLU, LFT, BTR, GRK, CRP, MFE, DGO, EGE, GJT, MTJ, SGU, CPR, COD, WYS, BIL, BTM, FCA, HLN, MSO, LWS, SUN, IDA, PIH, BLI, PSC, RDM, EUG, MFR, EKO, MRY, FAT, BFL, SBA, LGB, YHZ, YFC, YQB, YUL, YOW, YWG, YYC, YEG, YYJ, FPO, AGU, BQN, PSE, MID, MTY, BJX, MZT, LAP

That's 126 Delta Connection cities...out of 300 DL total.
 
AirCop
Posts: 5553
Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 2:39 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 1:20 am

And since another posting states that Delta is pulling out of two cities BQN and PSE basic math would state that Delta will serve only 298 cities.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 3:04 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 37):
Here's what I got from AA website.

AA flies to 172 cities
AA Eagle flies to 161 cities
AA Connections consists of Chautauqua Airlines, Inc., Trans States Airlines
Regions Air, Inc flies to 95 cities. Total of 428. Now if you take AA Connections out of the equations thats a total of 333.

Here's what I got from DL website.

Delta Air Lines (Other OTC: DALRQ) offers customers service to more destinations than any other global airline with Delta and Delta Connection carrier service to 292 destinations in 46 countries.

So your post if false advertisement..

Has it ever occurred you that there are actually destinations served by AA mainline AND AA Eagle? Going by that flawed logic, Delta and Delta Connection would be serving over 400 destinations, not just 300.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2615
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:58 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 33):
Codesharing is no more control of the product than contract flying is.

Consider the reverse, contract flying in the example of Delta connection should have a quality/product standard defined by DL. DL decides to allow it to be crap in the case of Atlantic Southeast and Comair as the two largest DCI operators.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 38):
AGU,

DL or Delta Connection don't fly to AGU. Only AM codeshare.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:38 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 40):
Delta and Delta Connection would be serving over 400 destinations, not just 300.

You might want to go to DL website and go to corporate information.

Corporate Information
Delta Air Lines (Other OTC: DALRQ) offers customers service to more destinations than any other global airline with Delta and Delta Connection carrier service to 295 destinations in 46 countries. With more than 50 new international routes added in the last year, Delta is America’s fastest growing international airline and is the world’s leading carrier between the United States and Europe with flights to 29 trans-Atlantic destinations. To Latin America, Delta offers nearly 500 weekly flights to 47 destinations and is on track to become the second-largest carrier in the region. Delta's marketing alliances also allow customers to earn and redeem SkyMiles on more than 14,000 flights offered by SkyTeam and other partners. Delta is a founding member of SkyTeam, a global airline alliance that provides customers with extensive worldwide destinations, flights and services. Including its SkyTeam partners, Delta offers flights to 470 worldwide destinations in 96 countries. Customers can check in for flights, print boarding passes and check flight status at delta.com.

Delta is a Delaware corporation headquartered in Atlanta, Georgia. Delta is subject to government regulation under the Federal Aviation Act of 1958, as amended, as well as many other federal, state, and foreign laws.

Here's the link. http://www.delta.com/about_delta/corporate_information/index.jsp

You show me where it says DL and DL Connection flies more than 400 cities then I will admit I'm wrong. Make sure its only DL and DL connection not including Skyteam.
 
DAL767400ER
Posts: 5084
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:48 am

Are you really that dense? Let me quote you again:

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 37):
Here's what I got from AA website.

AA flies to 172 cities
AA Eagle flies to 161 cities
AA Connections consists of Chautauqua Airlines, Inc., Trans States Airlines
Regions Air, Inc flies to 95 cities. Total of 428. Now if you take AA Connections out of the equations thats a total of 333.

The total of 333 you got is the total of destinations combined without factoring in that some destinations are served AA AND AA EAGLE! Meaning that instead of counting a city like DFW as one for AA and one for AA Eagle, it has to be counted as just one for both combined. Is that clear now?!?
 
aircanada014
Posts: 1224
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:24 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 7:09 am

Quoting DAL767400ER (Reply 43):
The total of 333 you got is the total of destinations combined without factoring in that some destinations are served AA AND AA EAGLE! Meaning that instead of counting a city like DFW as one for AA and one for AA Eagle, it has to be counted as just one for both combined. Is that clear now?!?

No kidding. I know there are several cities that are served by both. But what Im trying to say is that they say DL is the only carrier flying to all 300 cities on its own metal. They didn't state the fact that of those 300 are some of DL Connections. I don't know where in the world the other guy got over 400 cities. I don't know exactly how many cities DL the mainline carrier flies to but I do know its not 300 its way far less.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:51 am

Does this include the combination of USAirways?
 
worldtraveler
Posts: 3417
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2003 6:18 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 4:51 am

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 37):
So your post if false advertisement..

Since AA hasn't bothered to counter DL's claim to serve 300 cities or even the claims in the 290s before this one, do you suppose it's possible that DL might actually be telling the truth?

DL does have lawyers who know that you can get sued for making false statements. As much as it frosts some people here, DL just might serve more cities with its contract carriers and its own metal than any other airline.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 38):
Absolutely false. DL has a lot of control over the contract product. Not only does the contract have certain performance requirements (on-time, baggage handling, etc), but there are also on-board service requirements.

We're on the same page. The sense of my sentence is that DL doesn't lose any more control of contract flying than it does of codeshare flying, and probably less. Contract flying or even owned regionals is not exactly the same as mainline flying bya carrier but it is not as if the contract carrier is not kept under tight controls for how it conducts its operations.

Quoting FlyPNS1 (Reply 38):
Certainly not, but it's not a good sign to be losing money to Europe in the 2nd quarter.

And show me where any other carrier the size of DL has added 30% capacity in ANY region of their system in one year. DL's strategy obviously has been to help domestic subsidize international while international ramps up. DL's domestic system was wildly profitable this year - more than any other carrier on a profit/ASM basis except NW. Again, DL didn't ask any of us to help when it set its profit targets. If they can make money on their domestic system while they expand, so be it.

I've also pointed out that DL's transatlantic RASM actually grew year over year. DL lost money because cost went up - largely start up costs to their new cities. Since DL's transatlantic system made money a year ago while domestic lost lots of money, it is indeed possible that DL is returning to financial health on a region by region basis.

Quoting AirCanada014 (Reply 42):
Here's the link. http://www.delta.com/about_delta/corporate_information/index.jsp

You show me where it says DL and DL Connection flies more than 400 cities then I will admit I'm wrong. Make sure its only DL and DL connection not including Skyteam.

This is the same info that is at the bottom of just about every DL press release.

Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 45):
Does this include the combination of USAirways?

You mean the cities that DL will begin service to that are now served by US but which US will abandon when they can't buy DL and will be forced to admit they have done a terrible job of running their own airline, with the result that they will have to continue to shrink, leaving more opportunities for other carriers, including their 900 pound neighbor, Delta Air Lines.
 
positiverate
Posts: 1543
Joined: Thu May 05, 2005 10:35 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
Talk about a broken record that is consistently wrong about what I say. I have never said "they're never going to make it" despite repeated allegations by you.

"Repeated allegations"? Um...ok. Show me when I ever "repeatedly" made such "allegations" through postings or IM's.

Quoting Airzim (Reply 26):
I've never said "the employees deserve what they get," despite repeated allegations by you,

"Repeated allegations"? Um...ok. Show me when I ever "repeatedly" made such "allegations" through postings or IM's.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7086
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:03 am

Quoting MD-90 (Reply 21):
Quoting Delta787 (Reply 9):
As usual, only your opinion counts and everyone else is wrong. This post, like all of yours, is filled with the same bash Delta shit. Please grow up moron.

Recommend deletion

I don't know exactly how much a transcon First ticket on Delta costs, but for the money, he has every right to complain if it wasn't up to snuff.

Agreed.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
avconsultant
Posts: 709
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:18 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 46):
US will abandon when they can't buy DL and will be forced to admit they have done a terrible job of running their own airline, with the result that they will have to continue to shrink, leaving more opportunities for other carriers, including their 900 pound neighbor, Delta Air Lines.

US is a MUCH stronger airline today than DL. Profitable for the last 2 out of 3 Qtrs. If they do not get DL, they will get NWA.

By the way, the USAirways creditors were not upset with the deal they received from Parker and crew. Some of those creditors are DL creditors. The DL employee rallies should include rallies towards Gerry not to fail them.

Give it time, Gerry is a "turn coat". He failed the people of Burlington Northern and Western Airlines.
 
USAirPlatinum
Posts: 242
Joined: Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:12 pm

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:51 pm

Wow, 300 cities around the world -- and not a dime of profit from any of them.  Wink
"Hey guys, Delta is OUR Delta right now." -- Unpaid Creditors
 
SkyvanMan
Posts: 220
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2004 10:50 am

RE: Delta The Only Carrier Now Serve 300 Cities

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:06 pm

I saw the launch gate. I landed at LAX that night and ther were balloons and a banner over the gate that the first flight to La Paz was going out of. I was able to snap a quick pic with my phone but if anyone is wondering it was basically ust mulitoclored baloons, a banner and what seemed to be some extra staff, not that much special, didn;'t notice a 300th city banner or anything like that.
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