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scotron11
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LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 4:23 pm

Article/interview with Willie Walsh in today's Observer where he says that BAA have assured him the final completion of T5 will be May 2010

http://www.observer.co.uk

Article also discusses his thoughts on rumors, takeovers, consolidation etc. He also expects a deal on the pension issue between Xmas/NewYear, paving the way to replace 34 aircraft (20 744's/14 767s).
 
UAEflyer
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 5:04 pm

Very good job if this will happen, LHR needs the new terminal to expand. Unfortunately it will be used only by BA, which means limited access.
 
LHR777
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 6:52 pm

Just so you're all aware, there are actually two separate articles -

For pensions/consolidation etc - "It's not Exactly Plane Sailing"

For Terminal 5 - "Heathrow's T5 will be Ready 11 Months Early"
 
timboflier215
Posts: 807
Joined: Sat May 21, 2005 7:54 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 9:36 pm

A major UK project finishing EARLY?! Dear lord. hehe. Good news for BA, and I'm looking forward to their order for replacement jets. 787/748i or 773 anyone?!
 
kaitak
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:33 pm

I saw this in the Observer this morning; I thought T5 was supposed to open in 2008? Or is the 2010 date the time when it is completely finished, satellites and all?
 
Feroze
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 10:45 pm

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 4):
I thought T5 was supposed to open in 2008? Or is the 2010 date the time when it is completely finished, satellites and all?

The initial phase is the opening of T5A and T5B on 30.03.2008. T5C is scheduled for 2011. The article, http://observer.guardian.co.uk/business/story/0,,1973579,00.html points to an earlier opening date for T5C
 
Cruiser
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Sun Dec 17, 2006 11:12 pm

That sounds excellent....however, after working in these large scale airport projects, so many things have to go to plan. The baggage systems have to be 100% ready to go...or it will cause major disruptions. The fire alarm systems have to be working 100% or it cannot open for life safety reasons. Same goes for the PA. The computers systems and IT has to be fully functioning or no passengers will be processed and/or passengers may have trouble knowing if their flight is on time or late and where it is gated.

You can plan as much as you like, but there are always surprises and it is a matter of finding them before it becomes a major problem and really does delay the project.

These large scale airport development projects are not as simple as a new office building because you cannot just say "ok, move in!" There are so many things that must work on opening day or there is almost no point in opening! A huge feat and I wish the BAA well in their quest. Building and commissioning a new terminal is certainly no easy task...and when it is completed on time, it will make it just that much better. A lot has to happen between now and then though.

There may be showstoppers that threaten the project, but hopefully these will be few and far between.

Cheers,
James
Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
 
vv701
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:05 am

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 6):
That sounds excellent....however, after working in these large scale airport projects, so many things have to go to plan.

Of course you are right. There is many a slip between the cup and the lip. However so far all the news from Europe's current largest engineering project - T5 at LHR - has been good. T5A and T5B are on schedule and under budget. Now we learn that T5C may be completed 11 months early.

BA is scheduled to start moving into T5A/B in nine months time to ready it for the planned opening in just over 15 months. Every week that passes without a significant problem and continued good news on both progress and budget control makes a successful on-time launch more likely.

BAA is to be congratulated on deciding from the outset to manage the T5 project themselves. BAA is to be congratulated on the progress to date. And BA deserve our best wishes for the implementation of its equally ambitious and totally critical plans for the next 15 months and the following period leading up to the opening of T5C.
 
Cadet57
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:09 am

Quoting UAEflyer (Reply 1):
Unfortunately it will be used only by BA, which means limited access.

Well someone correct me if im wrong but isnt BA the LARGEST carrier there? If so wouldent that mean a huge chunk of ops moving to the new T5 therefor leaving alot of space at T's 1,2 and 3?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
itsonlyme
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Joined: Sat Dec 09, 2006 3:52 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:28 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
Well someone correct me if im wrong but isnt BA the LARGEST carrier there? If so wouldent that mean a huge chunk of ops moving to the new T5 therefor leaving alot of space at T's 1,2 and 3?

Yes, and also remember that T2 i think will be demolished and combined with T1 to create a new terminal, i think this is going to be used by STAR carriers, and also redesign of than damn central road area! So T5 is by no means the end of development at Heathrow.
 
BA787
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:41 am

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 3):
I'm looking forward to their order for replacement jets. 787/748i or 773 anyone?!

So am I but lets not speculate. I only can see the point in specualting now if it is a dry cut decision, whereas this is not as BA have many options all of which have a fairly equal chance of being used


As fir T5Big grin will be nice for a british project to be finished early

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 3):
major UK project finishing EARLY?! Dear lord. hehe

 yes 
 
zvezda
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:47 am

Quoting Timboflier215 (Reply 3):
787/748i or 773 anyone?!

It's not clear that BA really need anything larger than the B777-300ER, but they might order some B747-8Is for the lower CASM.

Please don't tell me about slot restrictions at LHR until >90% of the flights are widebodies.
 
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lightsaber
Moderator
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 3:05 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
Please don't tell me about slot restrictions at LHR until >90% of the flights are widebodies.

You have a point. With over half of the LHR flights narrow boddies, we're a long way from saturation. You can do a lot more for capacing replacing an A319/738 with a 77W than a 77W with an A380. Oh, the seat count increase is about the same... but the number of cities that can be served with a 77W vs. the A380...

But then again, I'm a huge advocate of the 3rd runway at LHR. With the terminal and 3rd runway... that airport could keep its spot in the world's top 5 airports (by passanger count). Without the 3rd runway, I expect LHR to drop out of the top 5 as Stanstead and Luton take up more of the load and Asian airports grow. When? Certainly by 2015, probably by 2012. Just my  twocents 

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
jfk777
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:17 am

Now hopefully BA can move all those 744 from T1 & T3 to Terminal 5. Making 744 passengers fly to anything but T4 until now is insulting to all the First and Club passengers.
 
LHRSpotter
Posts: 57
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:28 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:38 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 8):
If so wouldent that mean a huge chunk of ops moving to the new T5 therefor leaving alot of space at T's 1,2 and 3?

Bear in mind that currently BA operates out of terminal 1 for shorthaul and terminal 4 for longhaul so these are the two terminals that will be able to take a significant increase of other traffic.
 
planesarecool
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Joined: Sun Nov 11, 2001 12:37 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:42 am

Quoting Jfk777 (Reply 13):
Now hopefully BA can move all those 744 from T1 & T3 to Terminal 5. Making 744 passengers fly to anything but T4 until now is insulting to all the First and Club passengers.

Moving all (except Aus and Spain) operations to T5 will also provide more flexibility within the fleet, allowing for more flights with the same amount of aircraft.
 
Cadet57
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:46 am

Quoting LHRspotter (Reply 14):
Bear in mind that currently BA operates out of terminal 1 for shorthaul and terminal 4 for longhaul so these are the two terminals that will be able to take a significant increase of other traffic

Thats the point I was trying to make for UAEflyer. I also was unsure if BA used T4. So even thou BA will be the only client in T5, it is a boost for the airport as a whole. SOT, but will that mean there will be more slots available for airlines?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 16):
Thats the point I was trying to make for UAEflyer. I also was unsure if BA used T4. So even thou BA will be the only client in T5, it is a boost for the airport as a whole. SOT, but will that mean there will be more slots available for airlines?

No more slots, as thats a runway capacity problem, unless mixed mode happens
 
8herveg
Posts: 1490
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2006 2:01 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:16 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 11):
but they might order some B747-8Is for the lower CASM

Could you explain what CASM is please?

Also, when do you think Heathrow will reach its expected 90million capacity by? Obviously it won't be as soon as BA move into T5! They will need to use up T1 and T4 first won't they?

Another thing, i really cant see how BA can move all its operations into 47 gates (T5A & T5B) for the 2008 opening. Is that not going to be a little tight pushed?

I take it T5C is for future expansion as well for BA? Because the remaining 13 gates (60 gates altogether) wont just be for the flights to Australia, Spain and Italy surely?
 
zvezda
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:43 am

Quoting 8herveg (Reply 18):
Could you explain what CASM is please?

CASM is Cost / Available Seat Mile. It is the standard measure of economic efficiency of a passenger airliner. For freighters, it is measured in tonne/mile cost.

RASM is Revenue / Available Seat Mile. Simplifying, an airline maximizes profit by maximizing RASM-CASM.

Larger airliners usually have lower CASM than smaller airliners. Larger airliners always produce lower RASM than smaller airliners. In both cases, seating density, service levels, etc. are fixed.
 
B707Stu
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:21 am

Who's going to occupy T4? And will BA allow AA to use T5, being such a close partner? And what about QF, will they move over to T5 too? Or is BA going to go it alone and give T4 to QF/AA and the rest of One World carriers?
 
Feroze
Posts: 698
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:05 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:18 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 20):
Who's going to occupy T4

Skyteam and non-aligned carriers

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 20):
And will BA allow AA to use T5

No, staying in T3 with other oneworld carriers moving in.
http://www.heathrowairport.com/porta...a%20Centre^News%20Releases^Results
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 12:11 pm

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 20):
And will BA allow AA to use T5, being such a close partner? And what about QF, will they move over to T5 too? Or is BA going to go it alone and give T4 to QF/AA and the rest of One World carriers?

T5A nd T5B are together too small to handle all BA flights. So the BA fleet of 13 752s will operate to Spain and Italy out of T3 along with all other One World flights while all other BA operations will be from T5A/5B.

Star Alliance will operate out of T1 and Skyteam and independent carriers out of T4. T2 will be demolished.
 
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LHRBFSTrident
Posts: 574
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RE: LHR T5 Ready 11 Months Early

Mon Dec 18, 2006 2:46 pm

11 months early?

There are some, you know, cynical types who would say that no matter when it opens, it's still 11 years late...  cheeky 

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