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AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Tue Dec 26, 2006 2:19 pm

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 148):
I just laugh when I see someone with there big ass snap on roll away.

I dont have a big-ass snap-on roll away, I dont need a 'battleship' box. I do just fine with my standard box.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 148):
P.S How long have you been an A&P?

Im an A&P student. Just because I'm a student does NOT mean I do not have experence. I have worked at AS on the graves C/D Check crew in SEA before they shut down the base there.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 148):
P.S.S your insult is noted.

Your acknowledgement is noted.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 148):
They are all a piece of shit scabs whose names will be remembered and marked.

At least they realize that making some money is better than $0.00. Who cares of they are scabs, these are human beings you are talking about, not some robots from off the street. They have the RIGHT to make a living, unionized or not. Going on strike or walking out in the middle of a shift is NOT making a living, its hurting not only your pay but your career as well. This, I will definately get flamed for, but I want a career for ME and my family. I work for ME to better myself, not for the union nor my co-workers. Im in this industry for the love of aviation, not for the union or the pay, but thats just me. I could care LESS what other people thought on the issue because they are not me nor am I them.

If you dont like what your company is paying you or how you are being treated, you have the right to look for another job, give your notice and leave. Nobody is forcing anybody to work as an airline employee. People choose to work for said employer because they want to be there. In return, the company expects said employee to follow their rules, do the task correctly and they'll be paid for their services. It may not be decent pay but its something BETTER than nothing!

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 148):
Also in case you did not notice AMFA is not a traditional union but a trade craft.

They are a stand-alone union. Did you notice that when other unions were picketing, AMFA never stood with them in the past?

[Edited 2006-12-26 06:21:24]
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:44 pm

[quote=Copter808,reply=147]I've scanned all 145 posts here CLE757 and I've not seen ANYTHING to support your statement about CO screwing non-union employees. There are some "comments" but how about some hard facts? Copter808, if you started when I did you wouldn't be so understanding. I took 9% in pay and 13% in benefits. On top of the pay cut, I took a pay freeze for another year, that is what pissed me off. If you recently retired how could you not have "hard" facts. We took cuts in pay, we lost a week of vacation, 401-k match, two floating holidays, 2 hours of sick accrual per month, shift differential, double time, when you work on your vacation it is payed at straight time, we lost the premium vacation weeks to bid on, holiday pay. I'm sure I missed a few. The sick thing is that we were told we will not have any snap backs. If the pay cuts were done more fairly, we wouldn't be so bitter. The pay is still good and it is a great job to have. The union groups were treated different because they have a contract, we have E.I.T.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Tue Dec 26, 2006 11:53 pm

i'd say you elected some poor EIT representatives. If you want something to be fair you need to grab the right people who will stand up for you.

Your fellow co-workers are the ones who agreed to this reduction, they told managment that this was fair. so management went wtih it. you can't bad mouth the company when the elected representatives are voted upon by employees such as yourself.
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:01 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
They are a stand-alone union. Did you notice that when other unions were picketing, AMFA never stood with them in the past?

No because all of the other AFL-CIO unions are in competition with AMFA.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
If you dont like what your company is paying you or how you are being treated, you have the right to look for another job, give your notice and leave.

They liked what the company was paying them. They did not like what the company wanted to take away from them. And in case you did not notice they did leave. except for a few scabs who crossed the line.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
Going on strike or walking out in the middle of a shift is NOT making a living, its hurting not only your pay but your career as well.

No it is trying to protect your standard of living and the food you are putting on your families table. The scabs hurt the industry and are helping bring down the wage scale for every A&P out there.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
In return, the company expects said employee to follow their rules, do the task correctly and they'll be paid for their services.

right. They had a pay scale and it was the company who did not wanted to change it. Because Northwest management was horrid and drove the company to the bottom does not give them the right to jam the employees.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
career for ME and my family



Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
I work for ME to better myself,

I work for myself and my family also. But I will not do it at the expense of my friends in the industry. I would take a different line of work at less pay before I screwed my friends as a scab.

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 150):
It may not be decent pay but its something BETTER than nothing!

Being a scab or making nothing. I would take NOTHING and find something else to do.

So you think that a 20 to 30 year mech with a company is not entitled to "decent Pay". Someone who works an ETOPS flight, taxis the 150M dollar plane around to the gate, completes the ETOPS inspection, maybe do some last minute work on the Avionics or flight control systems and then attach your name to the log book while 200 plus passengers board is not worth DECENT PAY. Then why are you in training to join this industry? To take pay cuts and say thank you for my JOB. No way
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:21 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 152):



Quoting CALMSP (Reply 152):
i'd say you elected some poor EIT representatives. If you want something to be fair you need to grab the right people who will stand up for you.

I didn't elect or vote for any of the members. As a matter of fact, I believe 22 out of the 456 ramp agents in cle voted that year. E.I.T. is a scapegoat for management. You must be management or really stupid. If you think we were treated fairly you're crazy. What field do you work for?
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:28 am

well then that is the agents in CLE fault. like i said, you cant be upset about something if you dont participate. have you ever thought about being the EIT rep??

EIT is not a scapegoat. It is a group that represents the field services department just like some union rep in New York who is representing Joe Blow in ABQ, except with the EIT rep it is an actual employee who cares about other employees. EIT is a good thing for employees. you dont even have to pay an EIT rep to go before management and bring concerns and negotiations to the table. Bottom line is, this is field services fault for not electing the right people to make sure you are treated fairly. I strongly suggest either you or CLE757 become the CLE EIT rep. Otherwise stop complaining.
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:37 am

CALMSP, what do you do for continental?
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:50 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 155):
EIT is not a scapegoat. It is a group that represents the field services department just like some union rep in New York who is representing Joe Blow in ABQ, except with the EIT rep it is an actual employee who cares about other employees. EIT is a good thing for employees. you dont even have to pay an EIT rep to go before management and bring concerns and negotiations to the table. Bottom line is, this is field services fault for not electing the right people to make sure you are treated fairly. I strongly suggest either you or CLE757 become the CLE EIT rep. Otherwise stop complaining.

E.I.T doesn't negotiate, they make suggestions and are led to believe they are important. If E.I.T had any power or a voice myself or CLE757 might be part of it. I'm not complaining, I'm being realistic.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:02 am

how do you know the EIT group doesnt negotiate?? have you ever been an EIT rep??

I have been, and have been in many meetings. if you havent participated in any EIT events, or meetings, how do you know what goes on?? do you talk with or meet with your reps in CLE??
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:21 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 158):
I have been, and have been in many meetings. if you haven't participated in any EIT events, or meetings, how do you know what goes on?? do you talk with or meet with your reps in CLE??

How do you negotiate the leap frog issue. A junior employee tops out before a senior employee? I do go to the meetings, I get sick to my stomach and leave. CALMSP, you still haven't told me what you do for continental? What have they negotiated for? Face it, we got raped and it is our own fault. If we had a union, we would have been treated more fairly.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:31 am

I left Field Services to move to HQS to make more money and be paid not based on some stupid scale but what I am worth. I'm not following your leap from theory.......
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:33 am

CALMSP, did you work yesterday?
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:43 am

CALMSP, this conversation is over. You're not even a part of field services, this doesn't concern you. Since you're at HQS ask Bill Mehan about the leap frog issue. Have a nice day.
 
STJ
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:19 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:56 am

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
No because all of the other AFL-CIO unions are in competition with AMFA.

Another good point, unions have become a business too and will step on each other to get more business.


Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
No it is trying to protect your standard of living and the food you are putting on your families table. The scabs hurt the industry and are helping bring down the wage scale for every A&P out there.

There are plenty of folks putting food on their families tables that make alot less, they just don't have alot of other luxuries. Every industry pay is just like everything else in a capitalized system, supply and demand. Brain surgeons make alot more than regular Dr.'s because there are very few of them, if every doctor coming out of school was a qualified brain surgeon they would make a lot less regardless of they were unionized or not. When career fields are in short supply they will command a higher premium.
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:01 am

Bucknut........excellent post!!! If it doesnt concern me then why is it posted on here for people outside of the company to state their opinion/expressions??

I just left field services. I was part of the pay cut....so I deserve to post my input.
 
cle757
Topic Author
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:44 am

EIT CANNOT negotiate anything, do you really think the company cares what they say?...We had a great EIT rep in CLE (he recently retired) he said management would just say "this is how its going to be" and thats it...EIT is NOT a union!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:23 am

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):

I was talking in general, not about NWA solely. Your post seems to be directing my words towards NWA.

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
Then why are you in training to join this industry?

Because I enjoy doing the job and like working around airplanes. But like I said, thats just me. I do what I want to do, I could care less about what other people wanted because they are not me and Im not them and I will never let anyone tell me different and make me feel the way I should. Nobody tells ME how to feel WITHOUT my consent, period.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 7:23 am

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
The scabs hurt the industry and are helping bring down the wage scale for every A&P out there.

 checkmark 

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
Someone who works an ETOPS flight, taxis the 150M dollar plane around to the gate, completes the ETOPS inspection, maybe do some last minute work on the Avionics or flight control systems and then attach your name to the log book while 200 plus passengers board is not worth DECENT PAY. Then why are you in training to join this industry? To take pay cuts and say thank you for my JOB. No way

Right and when you are not FLAWLESS something happens and you go to jail, or if you are lucky you get away with a $250,000 fine, but you will never work in the industry again.

Quoting Bucknut (Reply 159):
If we had a union, we would have been treated more fairly.

No, half of you would be laid off. The union doesnt care about you, the union does whats best for the union. If you think EIT and CAL are one in the same just wait until the TWU comes in

Quoting STJ (Reply 163):
When career fields are in short supply they will command a higher premium.

Not when people are willing to put their lives in the hands of unskilled labor in El Salvador.
 
User avatar
malaysia
Posts: 2667
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 1999 3:26 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:36 am

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 143):
Snap-On is considered a very, very good product.

I have craftsman, it was more in my price range and I got my safety wire twister off the ramp one day, lucky day  Smile found it on the tarmac and nobody claimed it.

I wish I could have finished my A & P now, but unfortunately I now work in a location, where an AMT school does not exist, and when I tried to return to the school I went to previously, they jacked up the tuition by 50% and tried to extend the curriculum for a longer period to make me pay more. I couldnt do it and in reality, I probably would never get the job I wanted as an AMT for an Airline company, since I would definitely face discrimination due to my disability and some airlines such as DL have a physical test for AMTs that does disqualify me already. There is no real guarantee I can be a successful AMT. Some of my old classmates who did complete the school and license have not even found a job after 3 years, they have 0 experience and no military backgrounds.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
wingnut767
Posts: 762
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:50 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:49 am

Quoting B737900er (Reply 167):
Quoting STJ (Reply 163):
When career fields are in short supply they will command a higher premium.

Not when people are willing to put their lives in the hands of unskilled labor in El Salvador.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 
Yakum purkan min shmaya
 
Delta787
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 8:13 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 2:05 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 12):
I love my job, I just think the non-union employees got screwed and the company doesnt even care!..How would you like it, if you worked for ten years and a 9 year employee made more money then you?

It shouldnt even be based on seniority. It should be based on the quality you do your job. Automatic pay raises are not a way to motivate employees to strive to do better.
Fly Delta!
 
Electech6299
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:13 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:21 pm

Quoting STJ (Reply 108):
In my opinion unions breed mediochrity

At least in spelling! Big grin

Quoting Style (Reply 113):
There is currently no qualification that will get you a FS position that will not get you an FA position. Combine that with the amount of training and there is no difference in replacing or cost of replacing.

What about flexible schedule? FS does not do 4-day trips...

Quoting Bucknut (Reply 151):
The pay is still good and it is a great job to have.

That comment is the difference between you and CLE757- you face the facts and still tell the truth.  duck 

Quoting AirframeAS (Reply 166):
Nobody tells ME how to feel WITHOUT my consent, period.

Have a nice day  Smile
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:51 am

Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
The scabs hurt the industry and are helping bring down the wage scale for every A&P out there.

Two words: market value.
 
cle757
Topic Author
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:59 am

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 171):
That comment is the difference between you and CLE757- you face the facts and still tell the truth.

What did I lie about?...maybe you should get the facts!..If the ramp had a union prior to the cuts, we would have never lost as much as we did and we sure as hell wouldnt have this silly "Leap Frog" pay scale.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
STJ
Posts: 195
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2006 2:19 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:12 am

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 172):
Quoting Wingnut767 (Reply 153):
The scabs hurt the industry and are helping bring down the wage scale for every A&P out there.

 point  Two words: market value.

 checkmark   checkmark 
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:16 am

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 173):
If the ramp had a union prior to the cuts, we would have never lost as much as we did

 rotfl 

You'd be giving a half grand a year to the union; your pay would not have gone up one cent; you'd still have lost benefits and wages equal to what the company's target was for your work group, and you'd be no better off.

Without a union, between about 1995 and 2000, my pay rose 60 PERCENT. Without a union. The company raised out pay to competitive scales, after they languished for years behind everyone else's. Then this company was about the LAST of the legacies to take ANYTHING from employees after the economy went south and 9/11 took it further south. And what they took was far smaller than what those at the other carriers took.

But by God, we have someone screaming for a union, when all they'd do is take my hard-earned money, and give me nothing in return, unless you call scaled-down pass privelages, and scaled-down day-trade privelages something.

 Yeah sure
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:35 am

Quoting Bucknut (Reply 157):
E.I.T doesn't negotiate, they make suggestions and are led to believe they are important. If E.I.T had any power or a voice myself or CLE757 might be part of it. I'm not complaining, I'm being realistic.

Correct, CO simply comes at them with a $ and says 'you need to come up with this much in cuts. The amount is non-negotiable. Here is our suggestion.'
Where as you have a union you could atleast negotiate and include a snap-back or get something in return for something you gave.

Just like the FA's and Pilots now have 'free listing' privileges that they call jump seats. This has got to be the biggest scam in non-reving at CO, this is not jumpseating, it is simply listing yourself for FREE and not having to pay for it. Theres no reason why FS or Mechanics should not be given this option.


Quoting CALMSP (Reply 152):
i'd say you elected some poor EIT representatives. If you want something to be fair you need to grab the right people who will stand up for you.

While it is always beneficial to have someone who will speak out, like CLE757 and Bucknut states, EIT has absolutely NO power to negotiate anything what so ever.
 
HPAEAA
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 7:24 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:52 am

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 173):
What did I lie about?...maybe you should get the facts!..If the ramp had a union prior to the cuts, we would have never lost as much as we did and we sure as hell wouldnt have this silly "Leap Frog" pay scale.

are you sure about that? it's tough to say for sure...
1.4mm and counting...
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:54 am

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 177):
Quoting CLE757 (Reply 173):
What did I lie about?...maybe you should get the facts!..If the ramp had a union prior to the cuts, we would have never lost as much as we did and we sure as hell wouldnt have this silly "Leap Frog" pay scale.

are you sure about that? it's tough to say for sure...

Well that is what the proposed union is telling them, though I agree with you there is no way to tell what the outcome would have been had a union been in place.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
cle757
Topic Author
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:02 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 175):
You'd be giving a half grand a year to the union; your pay would not have gone up one cent; you'd still have lost benefits and wages equal to what the company's target was for your work group, and you'd be no better off.

I gave all that up, with no chance of ever getting it back already..I bet the flight attendants,mechanics and pilots are glad they had a union.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:23 am

Quoting Cle757 (Reply 179):
I gave all that up, with no chance of ever getting it back already..

No chance? If you're looking for back-pay, forget it. No, you won't get it back. Cry me a river, and just deal with it, instead of bitching all the time.

Quoting Cle757 (Reply 179):
I bet the flight attendants,mechanics and pilots are glad they had a union.

Goody for them. They still took wage and benefit cuts that were what the company targeted. They met their goal. Again, deal with it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
B737900ER
Posts: 1028
Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 10:26 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:47 am

Quoting Style (Reply 176):
Theres no reason why FS or Mechanics should not be given this option.

Mechanics have the option. There is a reason FS does not have the option, they dont go through aircraft fam training. BTW they should pay you to sit in the jumpseat. Silly
 
Delta787
Posts: 306
Joined: Mon May 01, 2006 8:13 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:14 am

Quoting Chgoflyer (Reply 134):
Are there any non union airlines? I would like to support them. As a passenger Im so over the whining of union airline employess. Is Southwest union?

Delta is fairly non union. Only the pilots and the dispatchers have unions. Southwest is one of the most unionized airlines in the country.
Fly Delta!
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:15 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 175):
Without a union, between about 1995 and 2000, my pay rose 60 PERCENT. Without a union. The company raised out pay to competitive scales, after they languished for years behind everyone else's. Then this company was about the LAST of the legacies to take ANYTHING from employees after the economy went south and 9/11 took it further south. And what they took was far smaller than what those at the other carriers took.

What did you make the first five years? You got bent over and loved it. United and American topped out after five years.
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:21 pm

Quoting B737900er (Reply 181):
Mechanics have the option. There is a reason FS does not have the option, they dont go through aircraft fam training. BTW they should pay you to sit in the jumpseat

You just proved my point. This new listing that they have has NOTHING to do with the jumpseat. Its just another way to list as a non-rev but the beauty of it is that its FREE. You call that equality among employees? This is one of the MAIN reasons how FS got screwed compared to inflight or the other work groups, things like this 'jump seat' listing.

CO is quickly going down the road of separation with their employees. The working together atmosphere that Gordon brought with him in the 90's is now gone.
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 12:37 pm

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 168):
I have craftsman, it was more in my price range

Craftsman is a very good product as well. I just chose to have Snap-On because I felt more comfortable with that instead. My father has a complete set of Snap-On tools that he got when he worked for a Ford dealership when he was in high school in the late 60's. So you could say that I followed suit.

Quoting Malaysia (Reply 168):
they jacked up the tuition by 50% and tried to extend the curriculum for a longer period to make me pay more.

They do the same thing at my program, its all about the almighty  dollarsign . They don't care who they certify (seriously!) as long as they can keep enrollment up and they also advertise as if there was no tomorrow.

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 171):
Have a nice day

You too, sir! I would never in a million years tell you how you should feel.  wave 
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
767Lover
Posts: 3254
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2003 6:32 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:20 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 12):
How would you like it, if you worked for ten years and a 9 year employee made more money then you?

It is quite possible that this is the case with any of us, union or no union.
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:28 pm

Quoting 767Lover (Reply 187):
It is quite possible that this is the case with any of us, union or no union

No union would allow it. It would go down to a vote and everyone is on the same page with this. Even those that are topping out first disagree with it.
 
copter808
Posts: 1384
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2000 1:14 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:44 pm

Quoting Bucknut (Reply 151):
Copter808, if you started when I did you wouldn't be so understanding. I took 9% in pay and 13% in benefits. On top of the pay cut, I took a pay freeze for another year, that is what pissed me off. If you recently retired how could you not have "hard" facts. We took cuts in pay, we lost a week of vacation, 401-k match, two floating holidays, 2 hours of sick accrual per month, shift differential, double time, when you work on your vacation it is payed at straight time, we lost the premium vacation weeks to bid on, holiday pay. I'm sure I missed a few. The sick thing is that we were told we will not have any snap backs. If the pay cuts were done more fairly, we wouldn't be so bitter. The pay is still good and it is a great job to have.

Bucknut, I started in 1995 at $5.77/hr. While I'm quite aware of what the cuts were, the title to this thread was about how CO screws it's employees. While you and I may have the "hard" facts, NONE were presented by CLE757, who started this entire fiasco. At no point did he present anything specific to back up his statements, beside the fact that newer people topped out before the more senior people. He never said anything about what the difference is. Is it a few cents, or several dollars? He whines about CO, but fails to document anything.

Bucknut, you even said yourself, "The pay is still good and it is a great job to have." If CO had not made cuts, we might very well be in bankrupcy--or worse. This thread could have started out "When I worked for CO..."

I fail to see what good all this whining and bickering accomplishes here on a public forum.
 
Electech6299
Posts: 606
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 11:13 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:50 pm

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 173):
What did I lie about?...

Whoa!  talktothehand  I didn't say you lied, I don't have the inside information that many others here do about all the facts. What I said is, you didn't tell the truth. Not really, not the whole story. You want to sell the one thorn in your side as if it's the only issue on the table.

Like everyone here has said, get over it. Life sucks sometimes. If you expected to have all roses and no thorns, you set yourself up for disappointment. Feeling resentful doesn't help your case one bit, but it sure sucks for the people around you. The sooner you stop the naval gazing and start smiling at work again, the sooner you'll realize that the job doesn't suck and your pay isn't bad. Maybe not what it was a few months ago, but it's still not bad. Read that quote from your fellow Bucknut that I referenced you in. That's what I'm, talking about. He's shafted too, but he still sees his job for what it is and is willing to tell the truth about it- that when push comes to shove, it's really not that bad.

BTW, in my job, last year I shared an office with a guy 2 years my junior making 11% more than me (same qualifications). (There's another guy I trained that's now manager of another division, but that's another story...)Then he got his own window office, leaving me to my own dark hole. This year, our company moved it's headquarters, and you know what? We both got shafted with cubicles. He still makes more than me, but he's pissed and bitter.  weeping  I love my job.  goodvibes  The cubicle sucks but I still have my job and I get by just fine. I had to avoid this guy for three months because all he did in the office was complain.  hissyfit  I suspect he won't be getting the raise I get next year, because nobody wants to work with him.  footinmouth 

It comes down to what you offer the company. The other guy came on when labor was at a premium and we needed another body, so he commanded a higher starting salary. (If I worked for Oracle, maybe I would have been bumped up too...) Now our annual raises will reflect our ability to perform our assigned tasks and help the company's bottom line. Maybe you don't get the same pay-for-performance raise I can look forward to each year, but you have other benefits, and your supervisor can tell the difference between who's performing and who's not- and who to recommend for the next open position, or the next shift selection. Trust me, lots of guys junior to you would love your job, and if you keep this attitude up, you might as well give it to them.
Send not to know for whom the bell tolls...it tolls for thee
 
AirframeAS
Posts: 9865
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:56 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Thu Dec 28, 2006 2:02 pm

Quoting Electech6299 (Reply 190):

This is a pretty good point. It all boils down to what you give back to your company that dictates your pay and benefits. And I agree with that. Bitching about how you are treated isnt gonna get you anywhere, trust me on this.
A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
 
cle757
Topic Author
Posts: 832
Joined: Wed Apr 06, 2005 8:28 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:56 am

Face it Falcon, the good old days of Gordon Bethune are over, Leap Frog Larry runs the circus now.
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
billreid
Posts: 761
Joined: Fri Jun 23, 2006 10:04 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:10 am

I am truly amazed at the number of employees who hate their company and stick around for a simple flight pass.

For the number of times they use the pass they would be better off financially getting a real job and buying first class with cash.

"Gee I only make $13,000 less than I could elsewhere. But I get to fly ten times a year on a ticket value of $350. Oops I am losing $9,500 on the deal. Oh no ..... the airline is really getting $1,300 per ticket from me against an average fair of $350....."
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:24 am

Quoting CLE757 (Reply 191):
Face it Falcon, the good old days of Gordon Bethune are over, Leap Frog Larry runs the circus now.

The good old days are gone, eh? That's why we're going to make a profit for the year? That's why we're still the best of the legacies? That's why we win award after award for our service?

Seems to me that things are running quite well, thank you. The problems is-and this gets to the heart of it-is guys like you and Bucknut are NEVER happy with what's going on. You find SOMETHING to complain about-be it the CEO's pay, or what the pilots make, or what the F/A's make-something. The fact is this: I worry about MYSELF. I don't care what someone else makes at UA, or AA, or US. I don't WORRY ABOUT IT. I make a decent living, doing what I do, and since 1994, this company has treated me more than fairly. I didn't like the paycuts, but I understood them. Maybe because I'm topped out already, that I DON'T CARE if someone gets to top out faster than I did-good for them!

I do my job; I do it the best I can, and I go home. I don't worry what Kellner makes, or that the F/A's took less of a pay cut than me. That's beyond my control, and I don't WANT some union taking $500 a year from me to tell me that, and then they can't do shit about it anyway.

So go on complaning. One thing I've noticed is that there's certain people-mostly on the ramp-who aren't happy unless they're miserable, complaning about what others are getting. Well if bitching up a storm makes you happy, more power to you, but don't complain to me, because I'm quite happy with my company, my job, and where I'm at.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
mrocktor
Posts: 1391
Joined: Mon Jan 24, 2005 12:57 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 1:49 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 193):
Maybe because I'm topped out already

I've got nothing but respect for your attitude. How do you deal with "being topped out"? I doubt I could be satisfied with a glass (OK, maybe rebar concrete) ceiling over my head.
 
Falcon84
Posts: 13775
Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:52 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:22 am

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 194):
I've got nothing but respect for your attitude. How do you deal with "being topped out"? I doubt I could be satisfied with a glass (OK, maybe rebar concrete) ceiling over my head.

Because it's beyond my control, and that's just the way it is. Again, I don't want some union hack telling me they can do better, because I don't think they can, to be honest.

I make the top pay of my work group, so why be unhappy with that? Going through my anxiety problems last year, I've just made up my mind that it's not worth the stress to worry about it.
Work Right, Fly Hard
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:29 am

i'm going to start a petition to force CLE757 out of CLE so we can have someone who is more representable of our company!!!!

As for mrocktor statement about feeling topped out.........there has to be some sort of ceiling somewhere. it would be hard to justify a ramp worker making $35/hr and up. Especially for a job where you can sleep on and not seem to get in trouble!!
 
style
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Aug 11, 2006 12:40 pm

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:44 am

I think this thread totally lost track. I don't think CLE757 hates CO. I just think he's upset with the way certain things have been handled. A lot of people love the company they work for and are simply voicing their opinion with what they think is wrong and should be fixed.

This whole "get another job" attitude is ridiculous. Of course there are times when that is the correct action to take but I dont think this is one of them.

The title of the thread is 'CO Screws Non-union employees' and if we look at the 'hard facts' like many here have posted then you will see that FS as a work group got the bad end of the stick.

Like I said previously, this new 'jumpseat' listing (which has absolutely nothing to do with the jumpseat) is a PRIME example of how FA's and Pilots were given something in return for something they gave. This listing, is a new way to non-rev for FREE. And theres no reason why FS or any other work group at CO shouldn't be able to list at a lower pass classification for free.

What did FS get back in return? Nothing. Hence, the title of the thread.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
Joined: Tue May 13, 2003 2:57 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:49 am

Quoting Falcon84 (Reply 193):
I do my job; I do it the best I can, and I go home. I don't worry what Kellner makes, or that the F/A's took less of a pay cut than me. That's beyond my control, and I don't WANT some union taking $500 a year from me to tell me that, and then they can't do shit about it anyway.

So go on complaning. One thing I've noticed is that there's certain people-mostly on the ramp-who aren't happy unless they're miserable, complaning about what others are getting. Well if bitching up a storm makes you happy, more power to you, but don't complain to me, because I'm quite happy with my company, my job, and where I'm at.

I think this quote sums it up perfect! Worry about yourself and your work group, and if you think another work group is so great then go join them, see for yourself. The grass is not always greener on the other side.
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3515
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO Screws Non-union Employees

Fri Dec 29, 2006 2:50 am

I believe that they only are allowed the jumpseat if there are no seats available in the back. therefore, they will be charged for a seat in the back. its not what it used to be where they would jumpseat all the time and sit in coach. TSA is limiting the access to the cockpit even if they have the authority to sit there.....i will have to double check this though.

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