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zeke
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Message From BA Cabin Crew

Wed Dec 20, 2006 11:50 pm

Received this from BA crew, please don't shoot the messenger, just sharing.

Quote:
British Airways Cabin Crew are set to vote overwhelmingly for strike action. This could take place anytime from the end of January through to the end of March. To you our customers we sincerely apologise for any inconvenience you may be caused during this time.

Negotiations between our Trade Union -- Bassa and BA management have broken down and last Friday, the 15th December, BA management escorted our representatives off the premises and closed the Bassa office. We are now being balloted for Industrial Action. This ballot will close on 12th January.

British Airways Cabin Crew would like it to be known that they absolutely do not want to withdraw their labour. As Cabin Crew it is our job to look after the travelling public, conveying each and every one of you as safely and as comfortably as we possibly can from A to B. This we do with great pride.

We love what we do, pride ourselves on giving you value for money, a quality service and on many occasions go out of our way to ensure you enjoy your flight and will want to fly with us again. In exceptional circumstances we may have to evacuate you from an aircraft -- as our crew in Houston did when an engine caught fire. We may have to perform life saving CPR and defibrillation, perform maternity duties along with restraining unruly passengers. Needless to say, we are trained and prepared for every eventuality and we conduct these in a thoroughly professional manner, always.

Obviously there are occasions when circumstances conspire against us, both for you the public and us as your crew, but it is often these very circumstances when our passengers appreciate most that they are with a British Airways Cabin Crew. This is borne out by us constantly exceeding every 'Customer Service' target British Airways have ever set for us and also the clutch of industry awards we win every year - including this year where thanks to our hard work and the votes of you our customers, we walked away with the Best Cabin Crew award.

However, things are not all rosy with the current management of British Airways. Historically, we have always had a proper business relationship with our management. As with any commercial environment or business scenario, there has to be an appropriate level of give and take on both sides in order for anything to work. However, our new management team wish to make a lot of changes.

They have approached these changes by not informing us, their staff, of their intentions. The only communications we have received regarding 'changes' have been through our Trade Union. British Airways management are refusing to negotiate with our Trade Union Representatives, declaring their intention to introduce the changes without discussion and openly stating that "we will walk right through you". Whilst refusing to negotiate on the planned changes (which in real terms mean cutbacks), our representatives were informed by BA management that they plan to bring in an hourly rate for cabin crew, rather than the allowances we are paid at present which are linked to the cost of living for the destinations in which we stay. This, in simplified terms means a serious pay cut of around £6,000 per year for most crew. They then added that they intend to 'save' a further £37 million pounds from our department -- 'In-flight Services'. We have already been 'cut to the bone' -- there really is very little left. When the company was on shaky ground a few years ago we agreed to no pay increases for a number of years to help it back on its feet. We have given and given, whilst the company have taken - and taken more.

The changes BA management want to make are both to our working agreements and to our employment contracts, including but not limited to increasing our working contract by 10 years in order for us to see our pension, cuts in pay, no pay increases at all after a certain time, cuts in promotion opportunities, less rest between flights, removal of working position choice and BA ignoring the wording of their own sickness policy when applying it to Cabin Crew. This certainly has health and safety implications.

As an example of our new sickness policy (EG300)-- A world wide crew member who has lived all her life on the south coast towards Portsmouth has recently had problems with her vision deteriorating, which has sadly led to an element of blindness. She can no longer fly or drive due to her condition. BA has been quick to 'manage' her under EG300, changed the rules to deny her a medical incapacity pension and has simply given her notice to accept a job on the ground or be dismissed. "How will I commute from where I live as I'm not allowed to drive?" she legitimately asked.

"MOVE" came the caring reply.

At present we are contracted with the airline to work until we are 55 years old. The reason for this is quite simply that 'we die younger'! Also each hour we work in the air is equivalent to working 2 hours on the ground. So as you can see -- an 11 hour flight to LAX is, in reality 22 hours worth on the body. The job is a very physical one and you are required to be 100% fit, both physically and mentally to be able to last the course.

Back in 1971 with the introduction of extensive jet travel, exposure to greater levels of cosmic radiation, longer range aircraft (747) and less recovery time down route, it was agreed with the management and the pension trustees that flying crew would retire five years earlier than ground staff at 55.

One of the settlements of the 1997 Cabin Crew Strike was that the company would look at an option to increase the retirement age for Cabin Crew, at no cost to BA, for those who wanted it. Talks broke down, as we could not make this cost effective without significant detrimental effect on our agreements, through the additional costs involved.

At the same time, some crew that were nearing retirement, formed Option 55, which independently took BA to employment tribunal to try and get the 55 age limit raised as a choice option for crew. BA put up a rigorous defence, employing the finest barristers and legal counsel that money could buy and won the original legal argument and subsequent appeal. During the tribunal, the head of cabin crew industrial relations (whilst on the witness stand) stated under oath, as part of his sworn testimony, that BA would be irresponsible to allow crew to work beyond 55 because of long term concerns over their health and the effects that flying at this age would have.

If we were 'forced' to work until 65 then quite simply it won't be worth saving for a PENSION because we won't be alive to spend it!

Our CEO -- Willie Walsh is intent on 'bringing us into line' with other departments within BA who have 'negotiated' deals. Negotiation or imposition? We can't comment as we truly do not know the facts.

However from the Evening Standard -- 09 August, 2006:
'£75M SHARES POT TO REWARD BA'S BOSSES -

British Airways is setting aside 20 million shares currently worth £75M to reward its top brass, headed by chief executive Willie Walsh.

The share will be ring-fenced in a special savings scheme which pays out to BA executives depending on their success in running the business.

The future looks bright for the airlines' executive directors after a 57% leap in first quarter profits gave them a flying start in the quest to drive up performance.

Walsh, who received a total of £961,000 from his May 2005 start date to BA's year end in March, can earn a bonus equivalent to 100% of salary split between cash and shares.

Last year, Walsh who stepped into the chief executives role in October was awarded a £270,000 bonus on top of his £548,000 pro-rata basic pay. His pay has since increased to £600,000.

Other likely beneficiaries of the executive share option scheme -- open to middle management up to board director level -- include chief financial Keith Williams.'

So while our top brass feather their nests by rewarding themselves huge bonuses and salaries we at the lower end are expected to 'perform' harder, work with fewer crew onboard, work with a reduced product, faults to In-flight entertainment, broken seats, lighting that does not work properly, toilets that do not flush and take pay cuts. If these things happened on a daily basis at the 'prestigious' BA headquarters -- 'Waterside' there would be outrage!

The changes BA want for us go beyond simply working harder in a changing commercial and security conscious environment. They will affect our lives outside work, our take home pay and most importantly our family life outside of work. They will also have a knock on effect to you, our passengers.

We are not asking for more. We are not a militant group. We only want to keep what little we have left. We understand the need to be competitive in this day and age and we believe we have struck a balance in the market place. We are making sufficient profit in a particularly challenging environment, if we were not we could understand the need for further cutbacks. However, our management have cut back on the very areas where more investment is needed -- on front line staff. They now plan to introduce a further 44 new managers to In-flight Services, when we are already 'awash' with too many managers.

We are still trying to get our management to talk to us but they are telling us "we have nothing to talk about". Unfortunately at the moment we are not seen as people - and we are just like every one of you, doing the best we can to earn a living. As it stands, we are only a 'number' not an individual. We are just expendable staff numbers. We are not valued by our management, in fact quite the opposite.

There are many more 'grievances' involved with this dispute, but it would take so long to explain all of the intricate details to you. This is quite a lot to read already.

At the moment, a strike is the only way we have of standing up for ourselves and forcing our management to open proper discussions regarding our contracts and our future employment. This can all be avoided with the application of a reasonable attitude and a dose of common sense from British Airways management, but anyone who followed the recent 'cross
wearing' debacle will know that those qualities seem to be more lacking, the higher up the British Airways management tree you climb.

Should a strike happen and should you be caught up in the chaos it will cause, British Airways Cabin Crew humbly and sincerely apologise to you. It really is the last thing we want to happen.

If you have non-changeable travel plans with British Airways from January
to March next year, you can write to our chief executive Willie Walsh at

British Airways plc
Waterside
PO Box 365
Harmondsworth
UB7 0GB

Or e-mail customer relations using this link:

http://www.britishairways.com/travel/custrel/public/en_gb

Please urge him to treat his employees properly or simply provide him with your thoughts on British Airways current management style.

We thank you for taking the time to read this.

British Airways Cabin Crew

I cannot confirm or deny if this is authentic, BA customers should contact the airline for any clarification.

I do not support or condone the above. The message does not represent my personal views or those of my employer.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
SPREE34
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Thu Dec 21, 2006 2:04 am

Glad my trip is over before Jan.30th.
I don't understand everything I don't know about this.
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:13 am

Right.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
When the company was on shaky ground a few years ago we agreed to no pay increases for a number of years to help it back on its feet. We have given and given, whilst the company have taken - and taken more.

AH HA ! No pay rises, but they didn't take ANY pay cuts or job cuts to my knowledge, unlike vertualy every other department in the airline. Even those evil managers took pay cuts.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
our pension, cuts in pay, no pay increases at all after a certain time, cuts in promotion opportunities, less rest between flights, removal of working position choice

Pensions-That's always a default whine, cabin crew just aren't willing to adjust when eveyone else has to, why just them ?
How many 'working positions' do they want ? You can't realy get more than 3.
They don't seem to understand that you simply don't need a CSD on the short-haul fleet, nor do you realy need pursers when you've got a CSD on long-haul.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
The reason for this is quite simply that 'we die younger'!

Bit over the top !

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
and less recovery time down route

You mean 3 days in New York shopping isn't enough for you ?

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
If we were 'forced' to work until 65 then quite simply it won't be worth saving for a PENSION because we won't be alive to spend it!

Again, over-dramatised.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
Our CEO -- Willie Walsh is intent on 'bringing us into line' with other departments within BA who have 'negotiated' deals. Negotiation or imposition? We can't comment as we truly do not know the facts.

And notice how since all the other departments have been 'brought in line', BA 's profits have gone up.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):

However from the Evening Standard -- 09 August, 2006:
'£75M SHARES POT TO REWARD BA'S BOSSES -

British Airways is setting aside 20 million shares currently worth £75M to reward its top brass, headed by chief executive Willie Walsh.

The share will be ring-fenced in a special savings scheme which pays out to BA executives depending on their success in running the business.

The future looks bright for the airlines' executive directors after a 57% leap in first quarter profits gave them a flying start in the quest to drive up performance.

Walsh, who received a total of £961,000 from his May 2005 start date to BA's year end in March, can earn a bonus equivalent to 100% of salary split between cash and shares.

Last year, Walsh who stepped into the chief executives role in October was awarded a £270,000 bonus on top of his £548,000 pro-rata basic pay. His pay has since increased to £600,000.

Other likely beneficiaries of the executive share option scheme -- open to middle management up to board director level -- include chief financial Keith Williams.'

So while our top brass feather their nests by rewarding themselves huge bonuses and salaries we at the lower end are expected to 'perform' harder, work with fewer crew onboard, work with a reduced product, faults to In-flight entertainment, broken seats, lighting that does not work properly, toilets that do not flush and take pay cuts. If these things happened on a daily basis at the 'prestigious' BA headquarters -- 'Waterside' there would be outrage!

What they mean is, we didn't get a pay rise. I bet if they too had got a pay rise, they wouldn't be complaining.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
We are still trying to get our management to talk to us but they are telling us "we have nothing to talk about". Unfortunately at the moment we are not seen as people - and we are just like every one of you, doing the best we can to earn a living. As it stands, we are only a 'number' not an individual. We are just expendable staff numbers. We are not valued by our management, in fact quite the opposite.

Putting on the sympathy vote mesthinks. They have one of the best deals in the industry, aswell as being some of the best paid.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
It really is the last thing we want to happen.

Hmmmmm.

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
At the moment, a strike is the only way we have of standing up for ourselves and forcing our management to open proper discussions regarding our contracts and our future employment. This can all be avoided with the application of a reasonable attitude and a dose of common sense from British Airways management, but anyone who followed the recent 'cross
wearing' debacle will know that those qualities seem to be more lacking, the higher up the British Airways management tree you climb.

BA management can give what the cabin crew want, atleast parts of it. But the unions need to bend a little more, crying out strike when they don't get their way isn't going to help.

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
JRadier
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:24 am

I'm not agreeing with the BA Cabin Crew, but I think this is a bit over the top.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
You mean 3 days in New York shopping isn't enough for you ?

Can't speak for BA, but KLM CA's only get 1 day. Remember while you are in your seat not doing too much they are working. Plus they have to work nights (on long haul flights) and have to adapt to timechanges much more they you have to (it doesn't matter if it takes you a couple of days, it matters with them

On long haul flights NY is one of the shortest routes, but many flights approach or go over the 10 hours duty-time (it doesn't stop with flying) while a regular office day is 8 (9-to-5). Even if you get a longer break it is very tiring (and yes I know, I often do 10+ hour days at work). On short haul they often don't get more then 15 minutes to shove a meal down their throats and relax a bit. Night stopovers are often short and don't give you a nice night rest.

So while their claims might be a bit overdone, your certainly is as well.
 
trekster
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:30 am

I for one dont want a strike, and know crew that dont, but who cares. The militant ones and unions want the strike to get there own way.

I know i will get shouted at but i dont care.

Other areas work hard to provide a great service to the flying public, and its going to get wrecked by one part of the company. We have no say in it at all. Us in the call centres will get shouted at, and get the people whose holidays and trips etc they have ruined. The crew wont get that, we will.

06 has been a bad year for the airline, not though any fault of its own.
Do we need to start 07 with a strike, that will just move pax numbers away from the airline. Wont that in turn mean less money, less work, less jobs in the end.

Rant over
Where does the time go???
 
raventom
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:42 am

Did they just approach you to give it to you?

[Edited 2006-12-31 22:44:55]
I love the smell of burnt kerosene!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
trekster
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:45 am

Who is sending that out???

That is not official. Hope there not being handed out at the airport as that would be very unprofessional.
Where does the time go???
 
wrighbrothers
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 6:57 am

Quoting JRadier (Reply 3):
Remember while you are in your seat not doing too much they are working. Plus they have to work nights (on long haul flights) and have to adapt to timechanges much more they you have to (it doesn't matter if it takes you a couple of days, it matters with them



Quoting JRadier (Reply 3):
On long haul flights NY is one of the shortest routes, but many flights approach or go over the 10 hours duty-time (it doesn't stop with flying) while a regular office day is 8 (9-to-5). Even if you get a longer break it is very tiring (and yes I know, I often do 10+ hour days at work). On short haul they often don't get more then 15 minutes to shove a meal down their throats and relax a bit. Night stopovers are often short and don't give you a nice night rest.

So while their claims might be a bit overdone, your certainly is as well.

I have no doubt that it's not all it's made out to be, it's hard work, long hours constant time changes etc, I'm not disputing that.
What I am saying, is that they are trying to make out like it's the hardest job in the world. Maybe they don't get 3 days in New York, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but they are going on about reduced breaks between flights (I'm talking long-haul) when you've just said that KLM crew only get 1 day, I'm prett sure BA crew get more than that.
I sugest the unions need to look at what BA crew get over all compared to what other airline crew get.

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:02 am

SQ,CX.MH,among others crew get much less pay and offer a better service. Wake up,before it is too late.  alert 
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trekster
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:06 am

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 8):

Exactly

BA get good pay and conditions compared to other airlines of the world.
If they dont like it, go, and keep our passengers happy by not striking, wrecking the good name of BA, and causing untold disruption to your working colleagues and passengers that, if im not wrong, pay our wages.

One thing, quiet important to note btw, and i want crew to respond with a good answer here.

BA have lost ALOT of money this year, through the numerous things that have hit us. Do you really want to make the airline loose EVEN more money by striking to get more time in a far away city, or more pay when you get good pay and trips at the moment.

[Edited 2006-12-31 23:09:57]
Where does the time go???
 
BAxMAN
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:20 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 7):
I have no doubt that it's not all it's made out to be, it's hard work, long hours constant time changes etc, I'm not disputing that.
What I am saying, is that they are trying to make out like it's the hardest job in the world. Maybe they don't get 3 days in New York, I'm willing to be proven wrong, but they are going on about reduced breaks between flights (I'm talking long-haul) when you've just said that KLM crew only get 1 day, I'm prett sure BA crew get more than that.
I sugest the unions need to look at what BA crew get over all compared to what other airline crew get.

wrighbrothers

Dismissing all the above gripes out of hand is a very naive and simplistic way of looking at the situation. It's this kind of attitude- espoused by managers as well as seemingly the pilot's son- that many in BA are unhappy about.

I have an element of sympathy with both parties. If I were crew, it's only natural that I would try and retain as much of the benefits as possible. From the management side, they can obviously see unnecessary and out-dated expenditure that can be saved. I suspect the union doesn't in all its wildest wet dreams expect management to submit to all their demands - that's why its negotiation. Nobody seems to know what concessions, if any, that BA has made to crew.

There is a constant culture of cost cutting in BA which was started, quite correctly, by Rod Eddington and Slasher Walsh is now taking a great big pair of garden shears through all departments and around the world. In the short term, profitability will benefit. In the long term, passengers will be alienated. Nobody really wants chaps flying BA because they are forced to by corporate agreements, schedules, choice etc, but we want people to fly BA because it's their preferred airline.

Competing with EK, SQ etc is futile - BA just simply cannot match their cost base unless they start bringing in belly loads of illegals from Albania. Cabin crew, and other customer facing staff like myself and my dear friend Trekster, hear of increasing dissatisfaction frequently.

I sincerely hope though that there is no strike. Hopefully we will see a compromise at some point but the leaks are already disincentivising people to travel. The share price has continued to rise depite previous years' shenanigans. You have to wonder how many more strikes/mishaps the market will sustain?

[Edited 2006-12-31 23:22:03]
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wrighbrothers
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:44 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 10):
Dismissing all the above gripes out of hand is a very naive and simplistic way of looking at the situation. It's this kind of attitude- espoused by managers

I see it from a managerial point of view, so my views will differ from yours, and that's fine by me  Smile
Other airlines who have lower crew costs and pay their crew less, seem to do better, not always, but BA has quite high over-heads, which isn't do the airline any favours. While it's great that the crew get a good wage, it has to be sacraficed somewhere else.
For example, (as this is my main place of knowledge) engineering. The engineers work in old buildings which aren't very nice inside, their wages are lower than that of other airlines, the work force had to take job losses, pay cuts, outsourcing of jobs and other things, yet I don't see them striking.
There are parts of BA that are 'over bloated' in terms of money pumped into it, while there are other key parts left behind, is this right ?

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 10):
as seemingly the pilot's son

He wasn't a pilot  Sad

wrighbrothers
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bastew
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 8:47 am

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
I cannot confirm or deny if this is authentic, BA customers should contact the airline for any clarification.

This was an email written by a BA cabin crew member. S/he then posted it on the BASSA union (BA cabin crew union) Forum and encouraged others to forward it on to their email address book.

WRIGHTBROTHERS.......

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
AH SA)">HA ! No pay rises, but they didn't take ANY pay cuts or job cuts to my knowledge, unlike vertualy every other department in the airline. Even those evil managers took pay cuts.

Correct. We did not take a pay cut. Instead, we elected to 'drop' one crew member per flight from the 747.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
Pensions-That's always a default whine, cabin crew just aren't willing to adjust when eveyone else has to, why just them ?
How many 'working positions' do they want ? You can't realy get more than 3.
They don't seem to understand that you simply don't need a CSD on the short-haul fleet, nor do you realy need pursers when you've got a CSD on long-haul.

I agree. It is hard for us to justify the amount of CSD's/Pursers we have on a jumbo at BA when compared to every other airline (except JAL which has higher supervisory levels).

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
You mean 3 days in New York shopping isn't enough for you ?

The LONGEST JFK we have is one of the rotations where we arrive on the very last flight day 1 (about midnight NY time) and leave very early (hotel pick up around 05:30) day 3. All other Nth American trips with a daily frequency (except LAX/SFO/PHX) we get 17 - 30 hours rest.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 9):
BA get good pay and conditions compared to other airlines of the world.

Trekster, you are right. Our average monthly 'take home' pay is at the top of the tier in the airline industry. HOWEVER a HUGE proportion of that is VARIABLE pay. Long range payments, meal allowences, overtime payments etc etc. We cannot rely on ANY of these payments. If I am off sick for a month I will take home around £800 for a months work. If BA find themselves seriously over-crewed they can quite rightly give me no flying. Again, around £800 for the month.

Cabin crew on a post 1997 contract earn a MAXIMUM basic salary of £15,000 after 8 years.

A word on our current management. Unfortunately, the ethos seems to be 'come in, slash as much as you can and leave with a nice bonus'. They have no concern for the staff or indeed the passengers. The mantra just seems to be 'slash slash slash'. I mean COME ON.

LEAD BY EXAMPLE FOR GODS SAKE! While they behave like that they will NEVER have the respect of their workforce.

They should take a leaf out of Continental Airlines CEO Larry Kellner when dealing with recent F/A pay talks. Mr Kellner turned up in person to finalise the agreement; in an environment of "Shared Sacrifice" he and other senior leaders gave back 25% of their basic salaries. Contrary to this the Cabin Crew community at British Airways are being asked to give up a collective £37m, AT THE SAME TIME AS £75 MILLION IS BEING RINGFENCED FOR THE SENIOR LEADERSHIP TEAM!

I am no fan of BASSA. I agree their tactics can be stuck in the 70's. But while we are making record profits every working group within BA has rolled over and taken whatever BA have dished out. BA cabin crew are the largest group in the BA workforce (around 14,000 of us) and we are certainly not prepared to roll over in the same manner so out management can grab the £75 million and walk. NO WAY!
 
ikramerica
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:03 am

People always trot out the sob story to make the company look evil, and the stories are usually irrelevant to the issues. The other issues that are brought up sound valid, but if below is an example of how unfair BA is, I'm not crying a river...

Quote:
As an example of our new sickness policy (EG300)-- A world wide crew member who has lived all her life on the south coast towards Portsmouth has recently had problems with her vision deteriorating, which has sadly led to an element of blindness. She can no longer fly or drive due to her condition. BA has been quick to 'manage' her under EG300, changed the rules to deny her a medical incapacity pension and has simply given her notice to accept a job on the ground or be dismissed. "How will I commute from where I live as I'm not allowed to drive?" she legitimately asked.

"MOVE" came the caring reply.

We don't know the facts, but frankly, "MOVE" is the correct reply. She was not injured on the job, and BA is not accountable for her medical problem (unless she sues and proves that it's the radiation that did it...). BA have offered her a different job so she can remain at BA and work toward her retirement, but that job entails her being at a certain place. If she can't get there, is the answer for BA to move their offices closer to her? Or should they just be obligated to pay her for the rest of her life because she wants to live on the south coast? She CAN'T PERFORM HER JOB and it's not BA's fault, at least as described.

It might be time for her to find another job closer to home if she doesn't want to move closer to her new job. BA is not a babysitting service nor a welfare agency. If the old health rules would have paid her forever, then they were stupid rules that were part of the reason BA was losing money.

If I fall in a skiing accident and break my back, should I expect my employer to give me money for life and move their business to suit my condition? If I get diabetes due to heredity, is that my employer's fault in any way? If my employer offers to accommodate me as best they can as long as I can still perform any job for them, should I be angry and ungrateful toward them?

Move along...
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
aussiestu
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RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:24 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
ANY pay cuts or job cuts to my knowledge

Yes they did. They lost a crew member of every 747/77 flight going overnight.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
Bit over the top

No the fact is we do die younger!

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
You mean 3 days in New York shopping isn't enough for you

Once again somebody saying something who has no idea what they are talking about. 3 days in NYC......I wish!!!! 18 hours on my last trip!!!!

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
And notice how since all the other departments have been 'brought in line'

Yes but are they happy with that?? Remember EG300 was accepted by all departments at BA but nobody is happy with it. BASSA fought for changes and even got some but they are not implemented or actioned so hence a call for strike action.

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
I bet if they too had got a pay rise, they wouldn't be complaining.

There is not one single point asking for a pay rise but hey if they wont to give of us one similar to managements or indeed Willie Walshes then lets negotiate!

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 2):
They have one of the best deals in the industry, aswell as being some of the best paid.

And thats why most of us leave other international airlines to work for them. If it was just the same as the rest then why change. Somebody has to be a leader and I am afraid that is BA and we have to fight for what we have! We bring with us our experience from those other airlines which is truelly to BAs benefit...........

Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
Us in the call centres will get shouted at, and get the people whose holidays and trips etc they have ruined. The crew wont get that, we will.

And you dont think we get that everyday when they tell us they ordered this or that or requested things through call centres. You just accept the responsibility and deal with it. We all work for the same company its OUR problem.

Quoting Trekster (Reply 9):
EVEN more money by striking to get more time in a far away city

The ballot has nothing to do with more money or more time off downroute. Perhaps you need to find out what we are balloting about!!
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:36 am

I'm in a jubilant mood  Smile Happy new year all  Smile

Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
WRIGHTBROTHERS.......

 Big grin, you called. I honestly have nothing against the BA cabin crew personally, I flew LHR-SEA-LHR at Christmas, and they were great, it's just on this subject, I have to differ.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
we elected to 'drop' one crew member per flight from the 747.

Okay (I'm learning people, I'm learning). Were those people made redundant, or just moved to other roles ?

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
Yes but are they happy with that?? Remember EG300 was accepted by all departments at BA but nobody is happy with it. BASSA fought for changes and even got some but they are not implemented or actioned so hence a call for strike action.

Are they happy ? Probably not, but it's the fact that would you rather have a job and take a pension cut ?

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
No the fact is we do die younger!

Is that because of the radiation ?

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
Once again somebody saying something who has no idea what they are talking about. 3 days in NYC......I wish!!!! 18 hours on my last trip!!!!

Okay, I was wrong there, thank you for informing me.

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
airbus3801
Posts: 1050
Joined: Wed Apr 28, 2004 12:49 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:37 am

It seems a bit over the top and making issues out of things that seem like a no brainer. I was considering them for travel in the future months, but I do not want to have the risk of being seriously delayed because of striking employees.
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:14 am

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 15):
, you called. I honestly have nothing against the BA cabin crew personally, I flew LHR-SEA-LHR at Christmas, and they were great, it's just on this subject, I have to differ.

Glad you enjoyed the flight and i'm sure it is nothing personal!

Quoting Wrighbrothers (Reply 15):
Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
we elected to 'drop' one crew member per flight from the 747.

Okay (I'm learning people, I'm learning). Were those people made redundant, or just moved to other roles ?

If I remember correctly there were no redundancies. There was a recruitment freeze, and the offer of unpaid leave or part-time.

To be honest I think we expect to illicit little public sympathy or indeed much from our collegues at other airlines. In the UK their almost seems to be a mentality that once you reach a certain tier (whatever the industry) people quite enjoy to see you fall. I am just waiting for the Daily Mail to throw around a '£60,000 average BA cabin crew salary' or similar. We will be portayed as overpaid and under worked, I know.

We also acknowledge that our collegues in other departments have suffered many cutbacks. I remember attending the intra-departmental 'Owning Our Future course' and listening to one of the engineers share some of the changes (read: cutbacks) that had gone on in the engineering department. Not nice!

I think that besides the actual issues we are balloting over (some of which seem trivial to the outsider) the over-riding issue that predominates is our current (new) management (and in particular Willie Walsh). Unfortunately for WW his resume was public knowledge. Known as 'the slasher' from Aer Lingus. Of course the unions were going to be cautious. I don't think management have made any secret of their intention: to cut employee costs and reform working practices in time for our move to T5. This is fair enough. But things are not being thought through. Knowing full well they will be gone to pastures new with a big fat bonus in a few years they are cutting in-discriminately. It is difficult to be a 'full service premium airline' (BA's words) and yet cut ever workforce to the bone.

- We never make enough profit.
- Profit margins are never good enough.
- Passenger compliments are never good enough.
- Yields are never good enough.
- The outlook is gloomy.

This is all we are constantly being told. Good is just never good enough. We are one of the most profitable airlines in the work, yet, still lets make more cuts. Not to our huge management salaries or £75 million share bonus, but to the 'little people'.

And on the other hand......... we have the BASSA union (T&G). Inflexible, militant, not very good at 'negotiation'. Add BASSA + Willie Walsh around the table = DISASTER.

I just hope that the moderates will come out of the woodwork before it is too late. Perhaps the Chairman should wade into negotiations. We all accept that savings must be made, changes to agreements made. But there has to be a little give for each take.

As Aussiestu mentioned, many of us have left other airlines for a career at BA and will most certainly defend what we signed up for. Whatever the profession, whatever the industry, there will always be one that pays the best and one that pays the worst. One with the best conditions, one with the lousiest. I intend to ensure I stick with the former.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:11 pm

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
The ballot has nothing to do with more money or more time off down-route. Perhaps you need to find out what we are balloting about!!

If you read what i said, i do believe i said no striking due to the fact it will cost BA an arm and a leg in refunds etc, and hit the profit BIG time, just like every problem this year. Do we want 07 to start the same, loosing all that. I did not talk about the reasons why your striking (though i picked a few things which are true and have been mentioned by fellow crew on this thread)
Where does the time go???
 
cusaeng
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 8:27 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:11 pm

i wont be helping anymore crew when they call asking me to service a pnr for them

"sorry i am on an unofficial strike" hangs up on them  Wink

i think its shocking what they are planning on doing as its the desks and the gate agents that will get all the crap from the pax.
i have a few comments about the strike and the attitude towards pay but i dont think this is the time or the place to discuss them.
i just hope they dont strike.
I wanna fly but they wont let me :( grr
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8378
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:24 pm

Has a strike ballot been called?

Has a vote taken place?

Is this a typical BASSA moan? someone should remind the militants that we are now seven years into the new decade.. the days for striking are over by about thirty years. The travelling public has no sympathy for BA cabin crew and baggage handling antics anymore.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Quoting Cusaeng (Reply 19):
i think its shocking what they are planning on doing as its the desks and the gate agents that will get all the crap from the pax.

Remember when the ground staff walked out a couple years ago. No notice, no ballot??

Quoting Cusaeng (Reply 19):
i just hope they dont strike.

Me too.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 20):
Has a strike ballot been called?

Has a vote taken place?

The ballot is in process right now. It will close on 12 Jan. Results will be announced at the BASSA meeting on 15 Jan. BASSA then legaly have to give 7 days notice and any action must occur within 4 weeks of the ballot closing.

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 20):
the days for striking are over by about thirty years.

UK law gives the right to strike, provided certain rules are followed.

And thanks god for that, otherwise management could just waltz in to any company, any department and impose whatever changes they like.

BA cabin crew are not asking for one more penny from BA.
 
ltbewr
Posts: 15710
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2004 1:24 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:05 pm

Regrettably, the competitive situations for airlines today from customer demands for cheaper flights, the growth of LCC's with their lower labor cost structures (like Ryanair, EasyJet and others in the UK), increasing labor costs, aircraft more expensive and greater regulation costs are putting pressure on the airlines to cut the incomes of cabin crew. Pension costs have exploded as people live a lot longer than they were structured for, along with underfunding for years by airlines in tight financial situations. Add to this that the cost of living in locations like London, New York and elsewhere have gone up a lot faster than salaries have. Then cabin crew have limits on the numbers of hours they can work, unlike many others with usual jobs where they can work many more hours and in many cases get paid overtime.
A strike by BA cabin staff would be very costly to BA as well as the economy of the UK so the threat must be taken very seriously. I don't have any easy answers for their predicament, but I hope that a strike can be avoided without hurting either BA or it's employees.
 
sk736
Posts: 747
Joined: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:47 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Mon Jan 01, 2007 11:24 pm

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
They have approached these changes by not informing us, their staff, of their intentions. The only communications we have received regarding 'changes' have been through our Trade Union.

Well what are trade unions for if not to be the representatives of staff? If management hadn't told the trade unions they'd be complaining about that too!

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
British Airways management are refusing to negotiate with our Trade Union Representatives, declaring their intention to introduce the changes without discussion and openly stating that "we will walk right through you".

Management have the right to manage. BA cabin crew clearly need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century and the realities of business today.
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:05 am

Quoting SK736 (Reply 23):
Management have the right to manage. BA cabin crew clearly need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st Century and the realities of business today.

SK I sit on the fence with this one. Yes, we (and our union) do need to make changes to our working practices that would bring a benefit to both us and BA's bottom line.

For that however, we need management that know how to manage people. This seems to be lacking at the moment. They are very good at cutting costs, being confrontational.....but when it comes to Human Resource Management there is a total lacking.
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:08 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 17):
Glad you enjoyed the flight and i'm sure it is nothing personal!

They were great indeed, treated a non-rev just like a passenger. Look out for my trip report some time this or next week about it  Smile
I myself considered being cabin crew you know !

Quoting BAStew (Reply 17):
I remember attending the intra-departmental 'Owning Our Future course' and listening to one of the engineers share some of the changes (read: cutbacks) that had gone on in the engineering department. Not nice!

Oh yes, engineering wasn't the best place to work in BA (probably one of the worst places actually) and still isn't great. Compare the Compass centre to TBA or TBJ & TBK.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 17):
This is all we are constantly being told. Good is just never good enough. We are one of the most profitable airlines in the work, yet, still lets make more cuts. Not to our huge management salaries or £75 million share bonus, but to the 'little people'.

If it makes you feel any better, more managers will be leaving over the next 3 or so years because of Willie Walsh cutting the management jobs.
Oh, and you shouldn't generalise managers. When you and others mention 'huge' salaries and big bonuses, these are only going to certain managers and those who actualy deserve them, there are good and nice managers out there ! it's usualy mid-level 'MG' grades who get these bonuses and the elite executives.
For example (again, using my personal knowledge) engineering SM's haven't seen such bonuses or high wage levels as you would expect. I bet most CSD's gets paid more than an engineering manager.

Quoting BAStew (Reply 21):
BASSA then legally have to give 7 days notice and any action must occur within 4 weeks of the ballot closing.

So we're looking at strike around late January early February ?

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:40 am

Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
The militant ones and unions want the strike to get there own way.



Quoting Trekster (Reply 4):
Other areas work hard to provide a great service to the flying public, and its going to get wrecked by one part of the company.

Yet again Trekster, I completely agree!

Quoting Trekster (Reply 6):
Who is sending that out???



Quoting Trekster (Reply 6):
That is not official

To be honest, I think that I may have seen that whilst at work.

Lee

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 10):
Competing with EK, SQ etc is futile - BA just simply cannot match their cost base unless they start bringing in belly loads of illegals from Albania. Cabin crew, and other customer facing staff like myself and my dear friend Trekster, hear of increasing dissatisfaction frequently.

Im with you on that one.

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 10):
The share price has continued to rise depite previous years' shenanigans

Do you not think that the shares are rising due to the increasing talk of a take-over?

Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
Sketty222
Posts: 904
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 12:48 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
If I am off sick for a month I will take home around £800 for a months work

This is not aimed at you personally BAStew

Not being picky here but most BA customer support staff arent on much more than this anyway every month. Their job is just as important as Cabin Crews' yet they dont seem to want to go on strike. Their pensions are going down the swanny like everybody elses but again they dont want to strike. They pick up the pieces everytime some dept in LON thinks that its ok to strike, yet they still get on with their job to the best of their ability. There might be a few moans and grumbles but with the shit that they've had to put up with over the last few years (not Cabin Crews' fault I know) I dont begrudge them that.


Lee
There's flying and then there's flying
 
ANother
Posts: 1833
Joined: Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:47 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:23 am

I read today that some Union official is talking about giving BA a bloody nose. Ha, it's me one of your customers who will get the bloody nose.

Bloody Awful, getting worse.

Looking forward to flying Star this year, and next ...
 
swiftski
Posts: 1837
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:19 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:43 am

I read the original post with much interest, and skimmed through the replies too. Unless I missed it - sorry if i did - no one asked or said what would happen if the strike took place. Would flights go crew-less, for example. I doubt they can, even short haul {correct me if i am wrong}.

What kind of history is there of this happening before?
 
Grbld
Posts: 349
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2005 9:25 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:57 am

It always amazes me that so many folks:

- ASSUME that a flying job is so much fun, that it is NOT allowed to make negative remarks about the working conditions.
- MUST compare that job to other jobs and justify this or that.
- think their own inconvenience for a single flight completely outweighs a daily struggle for the employees

Generalizing statements such as "the days for striking are over by about thirty years" are so completely off the mark, and disrespectful. They show a marginalization of major issues that this employee group is facing. Usually by people who have absolutely NOTHING to do with them and do not know the ins-and-outs of their situation.

Going on strike is a desperate measure. But when management throws out all negotiations and imposes a "take-it-or-leave-it" deal on the employees, there's nothing else to do.

Anyone suggesting that any employee in ANY company should just shut up, bend over and take it up the rear quarters, needs a reality check. Even if you are a customer service rep, it's your colleagues you're talking about. Just because your union decided to bend over indeed, does not mean that all others should do so as well.

Anyone that has a generalized disrespect for any employee group, should not be in management, anywhere. We see this kind of behavior more and more in all kinds of companies, and it's devastating. If you're a manager and you find yourself disrespecting (or even hating) people in your division, it's time to get out and leave.

Stop comparing your own job with that of your own colleagues. Stop talking about who has it worse, if you have no real idea what the other person's job entails. This behavior is also on the rise in lots of companies, and it's just pathetic.

In my airline, the flight attendants have a very weak union. The company just smacks them around without any real opposition. Weak union representation is common in all kinds of companies. Don't knock a different employee group for having a union that stands up for its employees. BA is making decent profits, so the justification for cuts is simply not there!

I have respect for the BA flight attendants in this matter. Being cabin crew is not a paid vacation (you'd be surprised how many ground personnel in airlines even think that!). They don't want to strike, if they can prevent it. But the thing is with this sort of thing: If you don't stand up now, this round of cuts is not going to be the last!. If you bend over now, management is going to keep coming back for more.

Good luck to all, and let's hope "respect" becomes part of the company philosophy again, and a strike will not be necessary.


Grbld


P.S. For those who are not familiar with the intricate tactics of labor unions and strikes: There are two important elements of going on strike:
1. Threatening to go on strike
2. Actually going on strike
In the VAST majority of cases, threatening to go on strike is the leverage required to ink a deal. It's only in a handful of situations where an actual strike takes place (except in strike-happy countries such as France). But in order to make the threat powerful enough, you have to be ready to actually do it, if push comes to shove.

[Edited 2007-01-01 18:02:25]
 
wrighbrothers
Posts: 1807
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 8:15 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 1:59 am

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 29):
Would flights go crew-less, for example. I doubt they can, even short haul {correct me if i am wrong}.

What kind of history is there of this happening before?

Flights would simply be canceled. You can't fly with less than 1 cabin crew on BA's main-line routes (I think you need 1 cabin crew member for 50 people by the rules). So I'd guess If they can get the crews (bearing in kind they will probably call upon managing cabin crew who usually do a desk job but can fly if this were to happen), they'll fly a 'thin' schedule, just to key routes or wherever they can do. It all depends on how many cabin crew go on strike.
I don't think this has ever happened before at BA, and I can't remember it happening anywhere else in the UK in my life time.
The only similar thing I can think of was when BA engineers went on strike in the 1980's, and some managers (who were qualified) and those engineers who didn't strike had to step in and do hanger work.

wrighbrothers
Always stand up for what is right, even if it means standing alone..
 
AirSpare
Posts: 570
Joined: Fri Jun 30, 2006 1:13 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:25 am

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
18 hours on my last trip!!!!

I wish I could get 18 hours off in between shifts. I'm lucky at times to get 5, and yea, I work in an industry where an errant computer command can cost 100s of thousands of dollars, a minute!

Quoting Aussiestu (Reply 14):
No the fact is we do die younger!

In many industries empoyees die soon after retirement, mine included So my plan was to save money (I haven't owned a car in 17 years for example), and retire when I hit 50. So in two years, I'm done, debt free and 2 businesses running full blast, money to live my hobbies and buy a car. Work? Collect a pension? Never, it's photography, dune buggies, maybe an ultra-light and fishing for me. A pension from who? Bush, Blair? My company? Yours? Don't be so foolish to rely on others for your retirement.

I am a loyal AA/BA FF, 100% behind BA, which the FAs are a part of, sink or swim together. You are getting all of my business becasue I like your product, give me an attitude and I'll smile and move on. Please, save me from AF!
Get someone else for your hero worship fetish
 
A380flyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:24 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:02 am

I know people don't like change, but sometimes it is for the better of everyone.

I used to work in hotels and got fed up with the poor wages, long hours, little time off and decided to move into corporate hospitality. I did not regret this at all.

If BA crew are so unhappy why not move, find another job. We all have a choice.

I had no union back up or anything and at the end of the day the only people that will loose out is BA customers.

Cabin Crew have to be realistic and agree on a fair package and agree to change.
 
trekster
Posts: 4319
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2003 2:47 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:12 am

Quoting A380flyer (Reply 33):
the only people that will loose out is BA customers.

What people need to understand is the guys they are going to really annoy are the people that in turn pay there wages.

But, they seem to have forgotten it
Where does the time go???
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:17 am

Quoting Swiftski (Reply 29):
I read the original post with much interest, and skimmed through the replies too. Unless I missed it - sorry if i did - no one asked or said what would happen if the strike took place. Would flights go crew-less, for example. I doubt they can, even short haul {correct me if i am wrong}.

What kind of history is there of this happening before?

Flights at BA could not go crew-less unless they were also without passengers. Whether or not BA would choose to operate certain flights without passengers (for cargo or to position aircraft) i'm not sure. The legal minimum would be 3 cabin crew on the smallest shorthaul aircraft, 8 on the 767 and 777 and 10 on the 747.

How much disruption exactly won't be known until the day. An overwhelming majority of crew are set to ballot 'YES' for a strike. How many will actually not turn up for work on the day of the strike however is another story entirely.

For each day of a strike, several days of knock-on disruption would follow as aircraft and crew would be out of place.

The last strike by BA cabin crew occured in 1997. The strike lasted 3 days and cost BA dearly. The law was different then (conservative government) and there was a lot of confusion and threats from BA that the strike was illegal and individuals would be sued. In the end only a handful actually went on the picket line. However, thousands upon thousands called in 'sick' on the day instead.

The CEO at the time was ousted shortly afterwards in a boardroom coup.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 30):
In my airline, the flight attendants have a very weak union. The company just smacks them around without any real opposition.

Grbld I also worked for an airline previously where we had a pathetically weak union. Actually they were so useless few of us actually bothered to be in it. And you are totally right. We were treated like absolute crap, were pushed from pillar to post, and instead of being an 'employee' the airline almost considered us 'owned' by them. And what kind of redress did we have? NONE.

A huge proportion of BA cabin crew are made up of cabin crew who flew with other airlines, were well and truly fed up with being treated like a piece of flesh and chose to work for BA, an airline that provided fantastic working conditions and agreements.

BA doesn't provide these out of the goodness of their heart.....it is only due to the strength of the union that they are in place.

Quoting Grbld (Reply 30):
2. Actually going on strike
In the VAST majority of cases, threatening to go on strike is the leverage required to ink a deal. It's only in a handful of situations where an actual strike takes place (except in strike-happy countries such as France). But in order to make the threat powerful enough, you have to be ready to actually do it, if push comes to shove.

This is what we are all hoping for.

However, if it doesn't work we will most certainly see the strike through. If we don't BASSA will be finished and we know it.

[Edited 2007-01-01 19:18:03]
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:23 am

Quoting AirSpare (Reply 32):
I wish I could get 18 hours off in between shifts. I'm lucky at times to get 5, and yea, I work in an industry where an errant computer command can cost 100s of thousands of dollars, a minute!

Airspare where do you get the energy to type????  Wink

Quoting A380flyer (Reply 33):
If BA crew are so unhappy why not move, find another job. We all have a choice.

A380, we are not striking because we don't like our job. The majority of us love it! We are balloting on a series of issues concerning our management.

Quoting A380flyer (Reply 33):
I know people don't like change, but sometimes it is for the better of everyone.

This is very true. We DO need change within BA. However, while this obviously has to benefiit BA, some of it has to benefit the staff as well. There are lots of areas BA could improve for their crew as a lever in negotiations. Like more flexible working contracts (part-time extremely difficult to get). Also, a system like most other airlines have where we can actually have a small degree of control on our rosters (such as 'bidding' certain days off, certain trips etc). BA likes to chirp on about 'modernisation' but in the areas stuck in the dark ages that would actually benefit it's staff, they aren't interested.
 
PanAmOldDC8
Posts: 934
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 9:25 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:26 am

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
do not support or condone the above. The message does not represent my personal views or those of my employer.

I hope the BA staff really think about this before they go ahead and do it. In this modern age your routes can be snapped up very quickly if you make a mistake. If they lose some of their pax to other ailines they usually don't come back, then the airline cuts their routes and bingo jobs are lost. My advice to them is to think before they jump
Barbados, CWC soon, can't wait
 
A380flyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:24 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:30 am

BAStew

I completely agree with you, we all want some benefits for ourselves and want our own privileges, but BA is a big company and has to modernise.

If it doesn't modernise it will become a 3rd rate carrier and will lag behind SQ/EK/VS etc. If it doesn't buy new aircraft, upgrade the cabins etc people will choose to fly other world carriers.

Without resolving issues like pay etc and becoming more efficient none of the above will be possible.

If it so bad why not move to another carrier, or are their benefits not as good?
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:39 am

Quoting A380flyer (Reply 38):
If it so bad why not move to another carrier, or are their benefits not as good?

A380 I love working for BA. I am very happy with my pay, terms/conditions/agreements. Why should I go work for another airline. As I have already said in previous posts, BA DOES have the best benefits in the UK.

I am not asking for a penny more. I am not asking for one more minute off a month.

May I ask what it is you do for a job? Does someone doing a similar job at another company earn exactly the same as you? Or are there some companies that would pay more, or less for the same job you are doing? Do you believe everyone that does the same job as you should be paid the same with the same t&c's?

I acknowledge BA has to modernise, working practices need to change. This will take negotiation and hopefully with a strike looming the BA top brass and the union officials will get back to the table and carve out a deal.

Of course I want to see BA move forward. And of course I would like to see our union officials wind their 1970's neck in a little. The only way to avoid a strike is for the two parties to talk. Maybe involve independent arbitration? There is still time.

[Edited 2007-01-01 19:43:12]
 
A380flyer
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:24 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:50 am

I work for a large company who use BA for air travel around the world.

They are not happy with this talk and uncertanty over strikes etc, so much so they are now booking with Cathy, Virgin, BMI etc and considering their use of BA because of this.

Our company doesn't have unions etc just good interaction with staff etc. We are not always happy with decisions from above, but go along with it or leave. The company does very well and staff retention is very high.

The thought of you threatening to strike shocks me, but hey you can do it, so go for it and remember who looses out and what the consquences could be.

I do not fully understand what you want or what BA want, but you need to sort it out fast without striking.....

I am British and proud of BA but not with this.
 
A340600
Posts: 3898
Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2003 10:24 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting BAxMAN (Reply 10):
There is a constant culture of cost cutting in BA which was started, quite correctly, by Rod Eddington and Slasher Walsh is now taking a great big pair of garden shears through all departments and around the world. In the short term, profitability will benefit. In the long term, passengers will be alienated.

 checkmark 

Quoting Trekster (Reply 9):
Do you really want to make the airline loose EVEN more money by striking to get more time in a far away city, or more pay when you get good pay and trips at the moment.

What?! This strike isn't about crew wanting more time in foreign places or more pay.
Despite the name I am a Boeing man through and through!
 
Humberside
Posts: 3240
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 3:51 am

Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
BA management escorted our representatives off the premises and closed the Bassa office.

That seems very extreme
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
bastew
Posts: 752
Joined: Fri Sep 15, 2006 9:21 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:02 am

Quoting A380flyer (Reply 40):
Our company doesn't have unions etc just good interaction with staff etc. We are not always happy with decisions from above, but go along with it or leave. The company does very well and staff retention is very high.

Sounds great! What happens then if the management propose a change that your entire workforce is unhappy with? Let's say instead of making your hours mon-fri 9-6 they tell you they want you all to work tues - sat 3 - 11pm. Your management refuse to negotiate and just impose? Do you ALL just accept it or leave? Or do you have a non-bonus obsessed management who will sit and talk and carve out some sort of deal?



Quoting Humberside (Reply 42):
Quoting Zeke (Thread starter):
BA management escorted our representatives off the premises and closed the Bassa office.

That seems very extreme

This is true. However to add a little bit of balance: the offices were provided by BA for BASSA on BA premises. I guess it sort of stands to reason that when a union threatening a strike will have it's offer of free rent taken back. No one escorted them off the premises. They were asked to leave by 5pm that afternoon and they did. BASSA reps still have access to the crew centre.
 
User avatar
OA260
Posts: 25451
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:09 am

Quoting BAStew (Reply 21):
UK law gives the right to strike, provided certain rules are followed.

And thanks god for that, otherwise management could just waltz in to any company, any department and impose whatever changes they like.

BA cabin crew are not asking for one more penny from BA.

Totally agree!!! I would say though Strike action should always be the last resort and the repercussions taken into account but I do believe in the freedom to do so if all other avenues are exhausted. Being 2007 or 1977 doesnt even matter!!! If workers are being screwed (and im not saying they are) then its irrelevant. Whats it got to do with the century we are in !!!
 
BALAX
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2006 3:56 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:04 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 12):
Correct. We did not take a pay cut. Instead, we elected to 'drop' one crew member per flight from the 747.

So is the purser position already gone from the 747 or is this one getting the axe soon?

I'm not sure if I agree with the crew on the stoppage. The fact is that there are other areas of work within BA that work just as hard or even harder. You think standing on your feet for 8 hours is fun? Yet , some of us work for less pay and stay put. Management should do its part to improve the morale of the different work groups and make it a less hostile environment.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 4:19 pm

I just got off a British Airways flight a few hours ago and fully appreciated the efforts of the crew through our 22 hour delay. They were amazing.

I fully understand their desire for new work rules. British Airways is the most profitable airline in the world. While that is a great thing to boast about, it isn't something the investors should be proud of. They should share it with those working to create a great airline. I hope there is no strike, but I support the cabin crew. They should share in the success of the airline and cooperation is necessary. If an airline can boast over a 1 billion dollar profit, then they should share it with employees in addition to shareholders.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
1stfl94
Posts: 1082
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:33 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:20 pm

Quoting BAStew (Reply 17):
We are one of the most profitable airlines in the work, yet, still lets make more cuts

BA still has debts of several hundred million (possibly into the billions), they have to be paid off somehow.

I just hope that the BA crew remember who pays their wages and do the sensible thing
 
wingedarrow
Posts: 157
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 9:11 pm

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:49 pm

Quoting Trekster (Reply 6):
that would be very unprofessional

That's the most professional action taken against an airline management I've ever seen. Without offending anybody they draw public attention on their problems. It is very sad for a company such as BA to act like this towards flight attendants. Every decision taken without talking before is always useless.
אליטליה
 
silverfox
Posts: 1086
Joined: Thu Mar 15, 2001 8:39 am

RE: Message From BA Cabin Crew

Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:03 pm

The last job i had

No Contract!

Everything was done on the whim of the manager holidays etc

No pay when sick, only the GB statuory basics, (which sort of buggered me when i was of for 3months following a quad by pass) and i am still getting back to finiacial postion iwas in prior to it.

My remit was to liase with the manufacturuer of the product we sold as regards warranty claims.
This was done via computer and telephone

They upgraded to phone and coimputer sytems, took my phone away and didnt upgrade the computer

No pay rise for the nearly four years i was there

Made redundant last month and the buggers still owe me overtime and other outstanding payments

The Good points?

I am off to an employment tribunal to screw them witless


I start working for BA on the 22 Jan!!!!!!!


Oh happy days

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