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ltbewr
Topic Author
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DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:37 pm

The recent blizzard at DEN apparently may have a negative affect on Frontier airlines (F9) which has it's hub there. A local CBS station in NY City is reporting as of Saturday morning that at LGA (the only airport in the NYC area F9 serves) a number of pax there are very angry at F9 for the lack of info, lack of staff, inability to get through by phone to reservation and the like. Flights in/out of DEN and to LGA are finally operating as of Saturday morning, but there are significant numbers of pax who couldn't fly to DEN due to the disruption. Some apparently good customers of F9 will be lost because of their problems during this huge storm.
My question is how much this huge storm and it's problems at DEN will affect F9 in the short and long run?
 
commavia
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:27 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
A local CBS station in NY City is reporting as of Saturday morning that at LGA (the only airport in the NYC area F9 serves) a number of pax there are very angry at F9 for the lack of info, lack of staff, inability to get through by phone to reservation and the like.

Local TV news (a complete journalist joke in and of itself, in most cases, at least when it comes to reporting on aviation stories) always do this. They always do the live shot from the LaGuardia ticket counter, or from the ticket hall at O'Hare, etc., where they basically walk around looking for the most pissed off, disgruntled and bitter passengers who have been stuck the longest and those are the ones that get on TV. It's textbook. My guess is that, in many situations if not most, for every one bitter person interviewed on TV who's been stuck for 39 hours, hasn't gotten coffee or a donut, hasn't seen a newspaper for three days, had a Frontier ticket agent spit on them and kick them, etc., etc., there is at least one passenger who sees that Frontier and its overtaxed employees were and are doing the best that they can.

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
Flights in/out of DEN and to LGA are finally operating as of Saturday morning, but there are significant numbers of pax who couldn't fly to DEN due to the disruption. Some apparently good customers of F9 will be lost because of their problems during this huge storm.

Sure, Frontier will lose some passengers, but I personally think the hit will likely be fairly minimal and short-term. The bottom line is that Frontier still has a huge presence in Denver and provides a service that many of its customers continue to value. That isn't changing just because of a snowstorm that was totally out of Frontier's control.

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
My question is how much this huge storm and it's problems at DEN will affect F9 in the short and long run?

Short-term, some passengers will say, "I'm never flying [insert airline name here] ever again!" and storm off to go rent a car. Long-term, this will certainly have a financial impact on Frontier, and will likely cost the company several million in the current quarter. But, that is a one-time thing and by 1Q07, Frontier will be back to worrying about all the other problems it (and every other airline) faces.
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:49 am

Its hard on any airline when a hub goes down. And when an airline has only one hub its even worse. F9 surely was stretched thin with trying to accomodate pax by rebooking on other carriers to their final destinations, but few flights were available in the first place. This storm just added to it. As for staffing at an outstation? There could have been every employee in the payroll called in, and it would not have been enough to please the pax. These people that claim theyre not going to fly brand X again, either have had a continuous bad run with a carrier or have flown so little that they dont understand irregular operations. Keep in mind the weather is always the airlines fault (sarcasim).
ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
flightopsguy
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:06 am

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 2):
These people that claim theyre not going to fly brand X again, either have had a continuous bad run with a carrier or have flown so little that they dont understand irregular operations. Keep in mind the weather is always the airlines fault (sarcasim).

Until Brand X comes up a $2.00 cheaper fare on their next trip.
A300-330 BAC111/146/J31/41 B99/1900 CV580 B707-777 DC8/9/10 L188/1011 FH227/28/100 SB340 DO228 EMB2/170 CR2-900 SH330-60
 
ABQopsHP
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:08 am

Boy you got that right Flightopsguy.
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ABQ ops, Cactus 202 requesting you order 5 Green Chile Chicken stew for us to p/u on arrival. ;)
 
symphonik
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:08 am

I can't imagine this will hurt Frontier in the long-term. Pax were getting "screwed" by all the airlines flying into/out of Denver, and for good reason!

[Edited 2006-12-23 18:37:47]
 
Bicoastal
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:36 am

At least United was booking on any airline available. And their agents across the country had considerable luck doing so. I have nothing against Frontier, but United had more hubs, planes and alternatives for its passengers who weren't already stranded in Denver. Sure they gave away revenue to other airlines by signing over their tickets, but thousands of their passengers were able to make it to their holiday destinations.
Airliners.net has many forums. It has spell check and search functions. Use them before posting!
 
Brick
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:45 am

Frontier's experience during the blizzard was not unique. United had similar problems as well.

I tried unsuccessfully for two days to reach United on the main reservation and Preimer Exec number to get my LAS-DEN ticket rebooked. I finally gave up and rented a car to drive back home. Now I cannot reach anyone in the refund department for the past day. I'll wait a few more days and try again...
A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man...
 
IPFreely
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:56 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
At least United was booking on any airline available.

Not true, at least as of Wednesday. I had a ticket on UA from TUL to DSM via DEN on Wednesday afternoon. When I checked my email on Wednesday morning, I had an email from United stating that my TUL-DEN flight was cancelled, I would be automatically rebooked, and to call their 800 number. I called, hoping I could be rerouted through Chicago Wednesday afternoon or Thursday morning, and I was told the best UA could/would do for me was to rebook for Saturday morning. I then asked to be put on another airline, and was rather rudely told no, that UA was not obligated to do this for a weather cancellation, regardless of their inability to rebook. It's worth pointing out that I've been a very loyal UA customer -- Premier or better each of the last six years -- and even though their service has steadily deteriorated this year, I couldn't believe they would expect me to sit in Tulsa for 3 days in order to keep a $170 fare.

I then called my company travel agent. She said that alternate flights were filling quickly and bought me a one-way ticket on AA from TUL to DSM via DFW so that I would not be stranded. We'll see what, if any, credit I receive from UA.
 
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mariner
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:08 am

Quoting Bicoastal (Reply 6):
At least United was booking on any airline available. And their agents across the country had considerable luck doing so.

Frontier was doing that too. There was a post about it just a day or so ago. But - there were not a lot of seats available.

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
Some apparently good customers of F9 will be lost because of their problems during this huge storm.

How quickly we forget.

After Wilma, Frontier was the only airline to apply for and receive emergency authority to fly into a city they don't serve - Merida - to pick up stranded Cancun pax.

mariner
aeternum nauta
 
ORDZW
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 9:15 am

Quoting LTBEWR (Thread starter):
Some apparently good customers of F9 will be lost because of their problems during this huge storm.

This may be true, but I think there are some cases where F9 reassured their frequent flyers why they choose F9 in the first place. I know in ABQ, we received gift after gift from our passengers, thanking us for the fantastic customer service they received. It is cases like this where airlines can really shine.

One Ascent member actually brought in a bag full of about 15 $2 cookies to apologize for yelling at one particular agent the night before. Another girl received a box of chocolates from a passenger who she helped two days earlier.

Sure, some people may not fly Frontier again, but some are very pleased with how they were treated, and will continue to come back.
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hamad
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 10:43 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 8):

well, the reason they didnt want to book you on another airline is that, there was an option, at least according to them, that you get rerouted to get to your destination. from an airline point, their role is to get you from point A to point B, weather and all natural causes, government, and all the interruption of operation that is not caused by the airline is not their responsibility. if you go on united.com find the contract of carriage and it should carry all that information. if it was a maintenance issue, then its their fault.
and welcome to airliners.net

[Edited 2006-12-24 02:44:21]
PHX - i miss spotting
 
IPFreely
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:03 am

Thanks for the welcome! Long time reader, first time poster.

I understand their rules -- they are not responsible for weather related delays, and all they owe me is rebooking on the next available UA flight -- even if it's not for three days.

What I don't understand is the poor customer service philosophy. They want to leave me stranded for 3 days in Tulsa in order to keep a $170 fare? And the fact that I've spent over $50k at UA, and been Premier or better the past 5 years gets no consideration? If the next available UA flight was later the same day, or early the next day, fine...but 3 days later? For a trip that is a 7 hour drive? Yes, it's their policy, but following it to the letter in cases like this is not the way to keep loyal customers.
 
luvflng
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:08 am

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 8):
Premier or better each of the last six years -- and even though their service has steadily deteriorated this year, I couldn't believe they would expect me to sit in Tulsa for 3 days in order to keep a $170 fare.

It was not worth for UA to rebook you on another carrier because of the cheap fare you paid. They would have most likely paid more for you to get you on AA to DSM, thus, losing money.
Although you being Premier is good, they look at the quality of revenue not only miles you have flown in a year. Again unless you are consistently paying higher fares, UA will not treat you as a high paying global services member.
Radar Contact Terminated, Squawk VFR
 
IPFreely
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:54 am

Quality of revenue on this trip was not great for UA. It's pretty good overall from me though, as I paid $800+ for a DSM-YUL round trip in Oct, and $1100 for a DSM-PDX round trip in Nov.

Still, their rules are their rules -- I just don't want to read posts about how UA CSR's are heroes for going against company policy to book people on other airlines. They may have started doing that by Thursday night when the cancelled flights were in the 000's, but they sure weren't doing it Wednesday morning -- and my travel agent confirmed she had received many calls from people who UA had rebooked for flights 3-5 days later than scheduled -- none had been offered flights on other carriers -- this was ~10am CST Wednesday.

Edit: It looked like the Southwest counter at TUL was receiving a windfall of walk-up business on Wednesday afternoon.

[Edited 2006-12-24 03:57:31]
 
Australia1
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:02 pm

have they gone to 24 hours ops to try & play catch up ?

Figure people who'd been sitting around for a while wouldn't care what time they took off, as long as ASAP.

Does DEN usually get much traffic between 2355 & 0500 ? Don't think there is any sort of curfew is there ?

Am flying out of DEN one FEB night to connect with QF at LAX with only 2 hr 45 minutes at LAX if DEN/LAX flight on time. (no later QF flight if mis-connect)

Makes you want to check the local weather before driving to airport, in case of expected delays.

This can't be the 1st time this has happened at busy pre-Xmas period. Surely DEN has contingency plans for such situations, or was storm that bad ?
 
JetJock22
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:19 pm

Quoting ABQopsHP (Reply 2):
Keep in mind the weather is always the airlines fault (sarcasim).

Yeah, don't people know that's the first thing we do when we wake up in the morning is decide what the weather will be that day? I wanted a nice thunderstorm for DEN, but God wanted snow. He won.
 
IPFreely
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:23 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 15):
Does DEN usually get much traffic between 2355 & 0500 ? Don't think there is any sort of curfew is there ?

I fly through Denver fairly often. There are almost no passenger flights, at least on United, that depart after 9pm. In fact, the terminal becomes virtually a ghost town by that time of night.

I don't know if there is a curfew or not, but I would guess not. The airport is fairly far from Denver and any densely populated areas.

Good luck with your connection. This week's storm was a very unusual situation -- DEN is actually an excellent airport -- by far the most reliable UA hub for on-time flights and connections.
 
Australia1
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:27 pm

If DEN was closed how was INTERSTATE 25 north & south ?

Surely, as a contingency, a nearby airport could have been used, such as COS, or PUB.

Even if it took 3 or more hours to go via car/bus to these airports, surely this would have been better than not flying anywhere for days ?

Or was the storm, so bad, that COS would have been effected to ?

PUB looking at a topographical map seems to be a ways from any mountains ? or way it effected too ? or too a lesser extent ?

Does anyone know if any airlines used COS or PUB instead of DEN during DEN closure ?
 
777den
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:36 pm

Wed when DEN closed I25 was closed from Wyoming to New Mexico , I70 was closed from Denver to Kansas, I76 was closed from Denver to Arkansas. only I70 West was open at all and the roads in denver were so bad it took 2+ hours to get 5 miles near the I70 I25 intersection. all bus services were canceled.
 
geotrash
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RE: DEN Blizzard Closing & Affects On Frontier

Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:16 pm

Quoting Australia1 (Reply 18):
Or was the storm, so bad, that COS would have been effected to ?

COS received less snow, but the problem was also with the roads. I got stuck on my street with 4WD going downhill. Bussing would not have been practical until Saturday. PUB does not have adequate facilities to handle hundreds of passengers at a time.

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