aa1818
Posts: 1554
Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:03 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:07 am

I think TAM's 777W, RJ's 787 interest, LH's 748i order, A's 737 purchase and FedEx'scancellation of A380s.

Those caught me out of nowhere and still have me scratching my head!!

Happy holidays!
AA1818
“The moment you doubt whether you can fly, you cease for ever to be able to do it.” J.M. Barrie (Peter Pan)
 
Archie Bunker
Posts: 359
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2000 3:22 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:32 am

The resurgence of the 747. Outselling all of the competition's 4-engine models combined.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:03 pm

Quoting Archie Bunker (Reply 52):
Outselling all of the competition's 4-engine models combined.

... by a factor of 3 or 4.
 
Lokey123
Posts: 121
Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 6:59 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:53 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 29):
We know absolutely that the A330 wasn't linked to an A350 deal, because the A330 deal was signed without an A350 order.

That is not necessarily proof positive at all. I have read Airbus PAs that reference the purchase of other aircraft in a separate PA as a condition of a discounts. Even if the orders are announced at separate occasions that doesn't mean that they are not linked.
 
zvezda
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 1:08 pm

Quoting Lokey123 (Reply 53):
That is not necessarily proof positive at all. I have read Airbus PAs that reference the purchase of other aircraft in a separate PA as a condition of a discounts. Even if the orders are announced at separate occasions that doesn't mean that they are not linked.

The price may be linked (the lease agreement could conceivably specify a discount contingent on an A350 order), but I don't believe the lease agreement would be null and void if the A350 isn't ordered.
 
aussie747
Posts: 1014
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 3:06 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 41):
Quoting Aussie747 (Reply 41):
How soon we forget.

QF going all the way with the 787 with up to 115 aircraft including options/purchase rights, and not ordering any 777's or splitting the order with A350's as was widely suspected it would do.


According to Wikipedia, that happened December 13, 2005...

Yes but not signed with Boeing until 2006, so either way
 
rootsair
Posts: 4013
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:27 pm

My big surprise would be Iberia's intention to order the 787 ! I would have placed a big $$$$ bet on the A350, since IB seems to be leaning towards an all Airbus fleet !

Furthermore let me add TAM's order for 4 777-300ER. Big surprise from an airline that seems to be going only Airbus!

[Edited 2006-12-27 08:34:54]
A man without the knowledge of his past history,culture and origins is like a tree without roots
 
AVinutso
Posts: 25
Joined: Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:34 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 5:01 pm

Definately the LH order for the the 748 and Fed Ex canceling its A380F and ordering the 777F. Air Berlin's order for 737 took a lot of people by surprise also, I think.

J
Maybe we shoulda thought of that FIRST
 
jamesbaldwyn
Posts: 747
Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:04 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:10 pm

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
For me it was FEDEX cancelling their A380Fs and ordering 777Fs.

I agree, that was a massive blow for Airbus
 
WINGS
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:16 pm

While I also consider he FedEx cancellations for 10 A388F, as a major blow to the A380 freighter program, I think that it may have actually given Airbus some breathing ground, to sought out some of it's problems.

With FX cancellations, and ILFC and VS deferrals Airbus now has some more maneuverability to book new orders.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:15 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 59):
With FX cancellations, and ILFC and VS deferrals Airbus now has some more maneuverability to book new orders.

So are you hoping for even more cancellations and deferrals to provide even more maneuverability?
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WINGS
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:27 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 60):
So are you hoping for even more cancellations and deferrals to provide even more maneuverability?

I would be pleased to see no further cancellation for the A380 although I fear that UPS may go down the same road as FX.

What may seem to be a negative situation, may turn out to be positive in the future. With FX cancellation and VS and ILFC deferrals, Airbus has managed to allocate SQ and QF slots that would not be possible had these cancellations/defferals not taken place.

It will also allow Airbus the possibility to gather new customers with a better time frame for delivery.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:28 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 60):
So are you hoping for even more cancellations and deferrals to provide even more maneuverability?

I rather doubt that is what Airbus are hoping for.
 
leelaw
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:40 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 61):
Airbus has managed to allocate SQ and QF slots that would not be possible had these cancellations/defferals not taken place.

According to Airbus, "the [SQ] delivery positions were protected by options accompanying the airline's original firm order for ten aircraft in 2001."

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...20_Singapore_additional_A380s.html

If you believe the Airbus "storyline," then cancellations/deferrals had nothing to do with the availability of delivery slots for SQ.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
WINGS
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 8:49 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Reply 63):

According to Airbus, "the [SQ] delivery positions were protected by options accompanying the airline's original firm order for ten aircraft in 2001."

http://www.airbus.com/en/presscentre...20_Singapore_additional_A380s.html

If you believe the Airbus "storyline," then cancellations/deferrals had nothing to do with the availability of delivery slots for SQ.

If this is the case then Airbus still has at least another 8 slots left open, considering that ILFC + VS, left open 16 slots and Qantas took up 8.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:01 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 64):
If this is the case then Airbus still has at least another 8 slots left open, considering that ILFC + VS, left open 16 slots and Qantas took up 8.

Those slots and others vanished with the production delays.  Sad
 
leelaw
Posts: 4517
Joined: Sat May 29, 2004 4:13 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:17 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 64):
If this is the case then Airbus still has at least another 8 slots left open, considering that ILFC + VS, left open 16 slots and Qantas took up 8.

IMO, it's not clear whether cancellations/deferrals by other customers have played any part in the availability of delivery slots for the options recently exercised by QF, since deliveries of the 20 A380s QF now has on firm order will stretch into 2015.
Lex Ancilla Justitiae
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:55 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 65):
Those slots and others vanished with the production delays.



Quoting Leelaw (Reply 66):

IMO, it's not clear whether cancellations/deferrals by other customers have played any part in the availability of delivery slots for the options recently exercised by QF, since deliveries of the 20 A380s QF now has on firm order will stretch into 2015.

I think that one can conclude that the recent cancellation from FX and deferrals from VS and ILFC have given Airbus more breathing ground. It may have also saved Airbus from major cancellations.

I'm confident that in 2007, the A380 program will receive further good news.

Regards,
Wings

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:22 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 67):
I think that one can conclude that the recent cancellation from FX and deferrals from VS and ILFC have given Airbus more breathing ground. It may have also saved Airbus from major cancellations.

I'm having trouble following the logic here. Cancellations are good because they may have saved Airbus from cancellations?

Quoting WINGS (Reply 67):
I'm confident that in 2007, the A380 program will receive further good news.

If cancellations are good news, then I also expect Airbus to have more good news in 2007.  Wink
 
TedEx
Posts: 167
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RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 10:38 pm

- US Airways bid for Delta
- AirTran bid for Midwest
- Midwest selects SkyWest for 50-seat RJ flying. I "just knew" this would go to ZW but was wrong.
 
WINGS
Posts: 2315
Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 1:36 am

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:40 pm

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 68):

I'm having trouble following the logic here. Cancellations are good because they may have saved Airbus from cancellations?

The cancellations/defereals announced may have helped Airbus bring forward some of the deliveries. It may have also helped Airbus in terms of compensation payment, as some of the deliveries would have been moved forward.

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 68):

If cancellations are good news, then I also expect Airbus to have more good news in 2007.

From the airlines that currently have the A380 on order, I would only be worried about UPS and Malaysian. All the other airlines have expressed their wish to continue with the A380. Like I said previously I would expect to see new customers for the A380 in 2007.

Regards,
Wings
Aviation Is A Passion.
 
zvezda
Posts: 8886
Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 8:48 pm

RE: Most Surprising Order/news In 2006?

Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:52 pm

Quoting WINGS (Reply 70):
From the airlines that currently have the A380 on order, I would only be worried about UPS and Malaysian.

You don't expect VS to convert their order to A350s?

Quoting WINGS (Reply 70):
All the other airlines have expressed their wish to continue with the A380.

Most people here take the public statements too literally. Nearly every public statement is a part of a long-term negotiating strategy.

Quoting WINGS (Reply 70):
I would expect to see new customers for the A380 in 2007.

New WhaleJet customers become possible if it becomes clear that there will be no more delays. As long as the delivery schedule remains uncertain, the best we can hope for is the exercise of options, as we've seen with QF and SQ.

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