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767-300ER
Topic Author
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Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:20 am

CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 1:40 am

I had a question regarding CO ops to Brazil. How are EWR and IAH to Brazil doing for CO? Would CO ever make IAH-GRU-GIG two separate flights? One IAH-GRU, and one IAH-GIG? Of course if they are EVER awarded additional frequencies. Would the 764 stay to Brazil, or would all flights be 762s if the split in flights occured? Also does IAH outperform EWR by much? Would EWR be upgraded to a 764 if the aircraft was available? Also, does anyone know where most connections are made into IAH to contine onto Brazil and vice versa? Is OD strong on the route? Are most connections from the west? Or are there sizeable connections to maybe, BOS, ORD.. etc?

Thanks
 
LipeGIG
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:01 am

767-300ER we discussed this in the past, and all pax using IAH-GIG says the majority of the traffic is between Rio and Houston, with a few number of passengers from EWR connecting thru GRU. Some people who believe that GRU is all times the High Yield market for Brazil (despite the fact that 85% of all international traffic comes thru GRU), says that Sao Paulo is the responsible for the profitability (meanwhile they never says the links between Houston and Sao Paulo, for sure minor against Rio/Macae-Houston)

I believe it could be IAH-GRU and IAH-GIG both with 762 but for sure the flight to GIG will be a strong candidate for the 764 due to the oil traffic between Rio & Macae to Houston.

Concerning to EWR, the New York city area faces more competition nowadays (DL now flies daily JFK-GRU and JJ 2x daily JFK-GRU) even without RG (they keep plans to return during the next 180 days).

CO, IMO , is a company that could be even more profitable if they decide to move from GRU to GIG (because IAH-GIG is a oil market route and NYC does not keep a non stop service to Rio de Janeiro).

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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STT757
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:08 am

CO used to fly nonstop to Rio from EWR with a DC-10-30, as well as Sao Paulo.

They tried tagging Belo Horizonte to the EWR-GIG flight but it did not help, eventually they dropped the EWR-GIG nonstop and made GIG a tag to their IAH-GRU flight.

CO used to fly EWR-Santiago Chile nonstop with a DC-10-30, then they tagged it to Lima from IAH and then eventually dropped the route.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
767-300ER
Topic Author
Posts: 247
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:44 am

Thanks LipeGIG, but I wasnt asking if GIG is outperforming GRU. Besides CO is in the business to make money, not to look cool flying into GRU nonstop instead of GIG. I was asking how Brazil as a whole are doing, being that they have the smallest presence of the US carriers, and how IAH and EWR are performing.
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 3:53 am

IAH-GRU-GIG will stay put unless a non-stop is created from EWR. We have a lot of connecting pax/cargo from our EWR hub that catch flight 93 continuing on to GIG.
 
rwsea
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:21 am

The GRU-GIG tag works pretty well because otherwise the plane would just sit in GRU all day long. CO could split the flight in two, but that would require 2 additional long-haul aircraft - something CO is very very short of at the moment.

Maybe once the 787's arrive, but not until then.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:37 am

According to DOT stats for 2005, IAH-GRU out performed EWR-GRU both in total passengers (as expected due larger aircraft) but also in annual load factors attaining 77.4% versus 74.2% on the EWR route.

Overall as mentioned previously by LipeGIG, CO faces quite a bit of competition at EWR from other NYC and East Coast flights while its IAH services only near direct competition might be AA's DFW-GRU flight. CO can use its IAH hub to successfully capture connections from dozens of Western cities which are not even connected to its EWR hub.

With a lack of widebody equipment, I dont see CO expanding in Brazil nor deep South America until the 787s arrive on property.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 4:51 am

IAH-GIG is just itching to be started.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
767-300ER
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:20 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 6:13 am

If IAH-GIG began, would both flights be 762s? Also does anyone know if DL is planning on sending any 764s to Brazil? Does IAH-GRU-GIG get a lot of connections from the west coast onto 93? Or are connections from anywhere pretty much.
 
ULMFlyer
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Joined: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:39 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:30 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 1):
all pax using IAH-GIG says the majority of the traffic is between Rio and Houston, with a few number of passengers from EWR connecting thru GRU.

Interesting. My impression as someone who flies from GIG to either IAH or EWR 3 or 4 times every year would be just the opposite. When flying to IAH, I always see most of the pax switching planes to the EWR flight, and leaving an empty 764 for the GRU pax. Same thing when arriving from IAH, most pax deplane at GRU. Similarly, arriving from EWR I see few pax connecting to GIG. Actually, this happened 10 days ago. After all pax from EWR had boarded the 764 to GIG, the plane was still ~50% full. Nonetheless, you might be better off trusting LipeGIG, who might have some data, than my small sample of observations.

Quoting 767-300ER (Thread starter):
Also, does anyone know where most connections are made into IAH to contine onto Brazil and vice versa?

Don't know, but I can tell you that starting at PIT, sometimes we get better fares connecting at IAH, sometimes at EWR. And it's not unusual for them to switch on a daily basis. If the fares are the same, I'd choose IAH, since I'd rather stay seated on the 764 at GRU than have to switch planes. That airport is a mess and I don't see the point of making EWR pax put their stuff through the x-ray again before boarding the 764 to GIG.
Let's go Pens!
 
767-300ER
Topic Author
Posts: 247
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:46 am

ULMFlyer, I tend to see the same thing. I know Rio has Oil and so does Houston. But not ALL pax are coming from Houston only. I always see GRU getting more pax than GIG. But, people still insist GIG sees more CO pax from IAH. But I guess the proof remains in COs decision to fly to GRU non-stop. Not GIG.
 
LipeGIG
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:57 am

Quoting ULMFlyer (Reply 9):
Nonetheless, you might be better off trusting LipeGIG, who might have some data, than my small sample of observations.

Yes, i have many customers on oil industry that flies very often to IAH from Rio and Macae.

Quoting 767-300ER (Reply 10):
I always see GRU getting more pax than GIG. But, people still insist GIG sees more CO pax from IAH. But I guess the proof remains in COs decision to fly to GRU non-stop. Not GIG.

1- Try to look for any specific date on CO reservation system (i.e. GRU-IAH Jan 10, 2007 IAH-GRU Jan 15, 2007) and say to me how many C seats are available (14)

2- Do the same as GIG-IAH / IAH-GIG, and explains to me why CO shows for the same date and route (with stop in Sao Paulo GRU) 22 available seats....

3- Looking only for the "brand" Sao Paulo or not, you can confirm with CO Brazil, they sell more C seats to Rio de Janeiro and this is a fact and this is why they show the seats ONLY to Rio, their main focus. Also the fare to GIG is $ 1,000 higher (and we all know GIG-GRU is a R$ 120 / US$ 55 fare)...

If you keep believing that Sao Paulo is the main market for this flight i respect your opinion. I recommend CO should try to sell all seats to GRU and not to GIG. And this is something people from Oil industry in Rio knows from CO staff, and available for any one in their website.

Felipe
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 10:30 am

OK, I'll be ready for why these won't work due to traditional timing but, here goes. No additional aircraft needed assumming aircraft swaps at IAH for maintenance routings.

Option 1.) Split IAH-GIG/GRU

IAH 2105 GRU 1055 (Same time as current)
GRU 1210 IAH 1800 (Daytime)

IAH 0850 GIG 2255 (Daytime)
GIG 2355 IAH 0600 (Same timeframe as current GRU-IAH)

NOTE: Timings could be reversed to GIG(pm) and GRU(am) if desired.

EWR aircraft would operate the GRU-GIG tag and offer a one-way pm IAH-GIG connection.

Option 2.) Round-robin flights to serve both cities twice daily. I don't think this would work if passengers have to clear customs at first entry point. If so, the aircraft couldn't leave as quickly on the trans-Brazil leg.

IAH 0905 GIG 2310-2359 GRU 0100-0200 IAH 0750

IAH 2105 GRU 1055-1140 GIG 1240-1340 IAH 1955
 
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calpsafltskeds
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RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 11:40 am

Oops:
It looks like my ideas need more aircraft time as the two aircraft on the present IAH pattern allow use of one of the aircraft at IAH from 0520 to 2250 for maintenance or to flow up to EWR. The ideas I posted take two full aircraft.
 
QXatFAT
Posts: 2336
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: CO To Brazil

Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:10 pm

Well 767, I fly to GRU quite often. I usually use DL when I fly to GRU but on occation I also use CO. I usually fly out of SMF to IAH and then on to GRU and from what I see, most of the plane gets off at GRU. I know for myself I am getting off to connect to MAO or to stay in GRU. But majority of people get off on these flights. Now on my last trip that I took CO to GRU, I asked the people around me in the terminal at IAH where they came from because our flight was being delayed and I arrived early at my gate. Most of the Americans that I got a chance to talk to were comeing from OAK, SMF, LAX, SFO, SEA, and of course IAH. Most of the Brasilians that I asked were on family vacations in LAX, SFO, and FAT (just a few on the last legs of their trips). So I would say that the IAH flights are mostly comeing from the Western States or Texas. But that is just on this flight. Like ULM said, ticket prices vary because it is cheaper sometimes to connect from IAH then it is at EWR to GRU. I have done this before from DTW as well as my friend at Christmas time.

As for aircraft, I dont see the need to change the aircraft. Same goes for DL. I do not see the change in aircraft and South America seems to be the spot where people are struggling. With TAM on the rise it is hard to say what will happen. In order for more things to happen for flights from the US to Brasil, I believe more Brasilian carriers need to fly to the States in order for there to be more from the States to Brasil. The only airline that this can happen with it seems like now is GOL but I do not see that happening for another 5 years.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
jfk777
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RE: CO To Brazil

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:28 am

CAL's market from IAH seems a western USA market & EWR is the NYC market with competition from the usual JFK suspects. EWR-GRU flies if for no other reason to round out the demand for frequent flyers in their biggest Latin market. Houston with AA's DFW service is the most suited to the western and midwest market. While UA does servce ORD-GRU, I'm surprised AA doesn't fly to Brazil or Argentina from Chicago.
 
767-300ER
Topic Author
Posts: 247
Joined: Wed May 19, 1999 7:20 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Fri Dec 29, 2006 6:48 am

Would GRU see 777s if the frames were available?
 
QXatFAT
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Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2006 3:51 pm

RE: CO To Brazil

Fri Dec 29, 2006 9:50 am

Quoting 767-300ER (Reply 16):

Would GRU see 777s if the frames were available?

No...at least in my opinion.
Don't Tread On Me!
 
TACAA320
Posts: 7153
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2004 3:03 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Fri Dec 29, 2006 12:49 pm

CM codeshare with CO in all their routes to Brazil through PTY.
'Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind'. Albert Einstein
 
CALMSP
Posts: 3297
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2003 3:18 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:28 pm

777 service would be so much nicer...........lot more easier to load!! the freight opportunities are there, much like they are with our 1x/weekly service IAH-EZE
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO To Brazil

Sat Dec 30, 2006 1:36 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 19):
lot more easier to load!!

CALMSP are you a load planner?
 
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calpsafltskeds
Posts: 3228
Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:29 am

RE: CO To Brazil

Sat Dec 30, 2006 6:09 am

Whatever CALMSP is doing for CO includes a positive attitude towards his employer, a quality company that is doing its best in a tough environment. I believe CO's top rankings are due to employees such as CALMSP, who go the extra mile for the customer and company.
 
CALMSP
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RE: CO To Brazil

Sat Dec 30, 2006 2:43 pm

hey now.........I dont write and tell!!!
 
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SAOAP
Posts: 142
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RE: CO To Brazil

Sat Dec 30, 2006 8:54 pm

Just to add a little something to the discussion: VRN (new Varig) is expected to reintroduce its flights from GRU to JFK and MIA (possibily with an extension to GIG) in the next couple of months as they start receiving their new planes. Another 3 767 are expected to join the fleet early january while 2 343 and 2 744 (with a further 2 being negotiated) have been confirmed for March...

As for American carriers in Brazil - the scenery looks just fine as it is. As correctly pointed out, GRU is still the best option for carriers interested in coming to Brazil - São Paulo is South America's main financial center and consequently a distribution hub to/from South America/Brazil. Just as an example: Congonhas sees more passangers coming/going in a year than both of Rio's airports combined. Then there's GRU, São Paulo's international airport...

On the other hand, Rio is on the rise again (tourism but mainly the oil energy in Macaé) and some point-to-point flights might make sense. Would be case study...

Happy Landings!
"When it's dark enough, you can see the stars" - Charles A. Beard
 
bucknut
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:38 pm

RE: CO To Brazil

Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:02 am

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 22):
hey now.........I dont write and tell!!!

I think I figured you out CALMSP. You must be a loadplanner. You don't work on the ramp and you do work HQS. Don't be shy, you may take my closeout one day. Have a good new year!

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