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CVG777
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:38 pm

I heard a rumor a couple of weeks back from someone working at DAB that United Express will be dropping its Daytona Beach service sometime this spring. Looking for flights in May, the United website doesn't show anything but an error page. It looks like the last flight out will be on April 9th.

I am sure that this probably has a lot to do with AirTran's entrance to DAB and their service to BWI, but I also thought that this would be a tough market for them anyways. It will be sad to see them pull out, but hopefully AirTran will spark some life into DAB passenger figures.
 
United767
Posts: 349
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 10:16 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:40 pm

Well back to flying into MCO for me then, then driving to the coast  frown 
I wish UA flew mainline to MYR, that way you wouldn't be stuck in a smelly Saturn for 12 hours.
 
xpfg
Posts: 582
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:17 pm

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Dec 31, 2006 1:42 pm

Didn't they just start ORD service? What a bummer! I recently flew DAB-IAD as a backup means to get out of DAB.
 
panam330
Posts: 2209
Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2004 11:58 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 01, 2007 2:25 am

This totally blows. I wanted to try out the DAB-ORD service, too. You'd think they'd at least wait until the spring travel period ends, but I guess not.  Sad
 
eraugrad02
Posts: 741
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 6:12 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:41 am

I just spoke to my brother who flies ord-dab on some of his 4day trips (e-170 f/o) he said he heard they may be pulling out too.
Desmond MacRae in ILM
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3291
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 01, 2007 9:53 am

well they were probably enjoying the premium offered before airtran. Id gladly trade UA 2x CRJ for 5x airtran 717s!. In addition, Airtran has extended their booking window over the summertime at DAB, it used to drop off after june, then july (service was announced as seasonal).

Whats interesting was i had heard that airtran was going to be handled by air wisconsin at DAB....
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
unitedMSY
Posts: 111
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:33 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 12:56 pm

This truly blowns, period. Such a great airline serving a great airport  Sad
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:26 pm

I kind of figured that would happen once Air Tran came in. Air Tran is just acting as route competition anyway. Almost surprised Delta isn't boosting up flights and cutting prices on the DAB-ATL route...

or will we see another ICT incident with Air Tran and Delta?
 
CVG777
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 1:27 pm

Daytona Beach News-Journal Article

This was the article published after AirTran's inaugural flight, but it also talks about United's departure. According to another article, that I can't find the link to, the hope of airport management is to convince United to turn Chicago into at least a daily flight. Currently, the route is only flown once weekly on Saturdays.

Personally, I think this is a long-shot primarily becuase of AirTran pulling down fares in the market. Between AirTran and Delta, both will be able to serve most of the destinations that would be available via Chicago, and fares will be low.

For those of us in Daytona, we have to enjoy the CRJs while they last, especially since Delta pulled the RJs and went to 6x mainline as soon as AirTran started service.
 
flyinryan99
Posts: 1521
Joined: Sat Feb 17, 2001 6:54 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:14 pm

It's too bad UA couldn't make DAB work. I guess that's the price you pay when you have crappy reliabilty on the route. If they had decent reliability, it may have worked.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:31 pm

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 9):
It's too bad UA couldn't make DAB work. I guess that's the price you pay when you have crappy reliabilty on the route. If they had decent reliability, it may have worked.

I guarantee you MLB would work.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
IPFreely
Posts: 2653
Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 8:26 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 2:33 pm

[quote=CVG777,reply=8]For those of us in Daytona, we have to enjoy the CRJs while they last, especially since Delta pulled the RJs and went to 6x mainline...[quote]Ok, now I think I've read everything.....
 
CVG777
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Sun Jan 14, 2007 11:16 pm

Quoting IPFreely (Reply 11):
Ok, now I think I've read everything.....

I should have qualified that with "from the spotters perspective."


 Big grin
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:13 am

Daytona needs a flight at least to the Great Lakes region. The closest they had daily was the CVG Comair flight a couple years back, and of course the Sat only United Express flight, as well as the weekend Continental Express flights to CLE.

They need a daily - either Continental Ex to CLE, Northwest Airlink to DTW, or United Express or American Eagle to ORD.

I did a market survey of several Riddle students for a MBA project at Riddle and both DTW and ORD/MDW were in the top ten markets of where Riddle students regularly fly to. I am not sure how that would relate to the rest of the Daytona Beach area.
 
MCOflyer
Posts: 7088
Joined: Tue Jun 13, 2006 5:51 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 12:29 am

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 13):

Agreed.

I hope WN or FL would introduce a MDW flight or DTW flight.

MCOflyer
Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 4:48 am

I just flew UA DAB-ORD yesterday. The load was 30/50 on this one...not too hot. But I talked to a UA crew member on board that sat next to me. He takes the flight every weekend and says that it is normally full. The ORD-DAB inbound was definitely full. Also the DAB-IAD double daily is usually full as well. Here are my findings on the flight yesterday...Mesa has to go. I know it's just a rumor but Air Wisconsin is a better choice for UA's regional flying. The plane was 90 minutes late leaving DAB and I had 13 minutes to make my next flight and had to go from F Terminal F to Terminal C...made it in 12...very lucky...and I ran fast! First of all, the service is working as planned financially. This is nothing more than UA getting pissed off about FL receiving subsidies for their new service...that Air Wisconsin is ground handling! As of now, FL has only committed to seasonal service ending in August for both ATL and BWI. BWI doesn't start until next month. Early loads on DAB-ATL are spotty. Some flights are completely full, some had as little as 30. And DL is bumping up to 8X daily I think...all M88...it's 6 now...and very full. IMHO, FL's DAB-BWI won't stay. The O&D isn't high enough to sustain and connecting opportunities are limited. UA should be smart and stay the course at 1-2X daily DAB-IAD year-round. Full flights at good yields with extremely strong connecting opportunities make this route a winner...and it is. You can't have a route like DAB-ORD as Saturday-only. You're killing the chances of success immediately by going once a week...yet it still goes out full most of the time. BTW, yesterday was a slow day as my ORD-LAX flight (A320) was only half full also. DAB is willing to give UA a substantial subsidy to start daily year-round DAB-ORD so they are very wanted at DAB. It's a viable route with even better connecting opportunities than IAD at potentially very good yields. My guess is either 2X CR2 or 1X CR7. If you want this route, and I know for a fact that UA is really considering doing it, write UA NOW to help save this route!
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 5:09 am

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 14):
Agreed.

I hope WN or FL would introduce a MDW flight or DTW flight.

WN - Never happen. If WN started DAB, it would be to multiple locations at once. WN doesn't start new airports unless there is a market to demand it because they like to start to many locations at once... for example WN would do BNA, MDW, BWI, HOU, PHX at the same time.

DAB doesn't have the market for all of those airports since WN already has significant operations at MCO, and decent amount at JAX. Had MCO not cooperated with WN back when WN started flying there in the 1990s, they sure as hell would have then picked DAB, which at that time had just built the new terminal. DAB would have then extended that terminal (it can be expanded to 13 gates), and the model down by the Continental Counter shows it with 8 gates. It would have then had WN gone there in the 1990s, and it would probably be built out to 13 gates by now with WN controlling 10 of them.

Had WN not gone to MCO, there would be many people from the Orlando area willing to drive to either TPA or DAB. Basically anyone southwest of MCO like Kissimmee would drive to TPA, anyone north of MCO like Sanford, Winter Park and Orlando itself would probably go to DAB. It would be the Southwest effect because it has been proven that people are willing to drive an hour to another airport if it has Southwest at it. Being that TPA, JAX and MCO all have Southwest in the Central Florida region, it would be pointless to have it at DAB for just one route - which again WN would not do just one route. I don't think any airport they fly to only has one route.

FL is a possibility of expanding, they don't build up 10 markets out of one airport at once, they expand more slowly. If the Midwest/Air Tran merger happens, I could see FL expanding eventually to MKE, then maybe to DTW or MDW and a couple other northeastern airports.
 
CVG777
Topic Author
Posts: 1211
Joined: Tue May 02, 2000 6:42 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 7:40 am

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 15):
IMHO, FL's DAB-BWI won't stay. The O&D isn't high enough to sustain and connecting opportunities are limited. UA should be smart and stay the course at 1-2X daily DAB-IAD year-round.

The reason that DAB was able to attract United was becuase research found the Washington metro area to be the top of O&D from Daytona (so I was told by someone who worked on it, in addition to the money from the community). I think that AirTran will be able to make BWI work for that reason, and especially if United does pull off the Dulles route.

I don't think that we will be seeing any other LCCs until AirTran has been around a while (at least until the end of this year), but I am sure that the likes of JetBlue and Southwest will be watching with interest. JetBlue is the next likely airline that I see coming to Daytona  crossfingers  , but that is probably a ways off.
 
luvflng
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2000 8:59 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:47 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 15):
The ORD-DAB inbound was definitely full. Also the DAB-IAD double daily is usually full as well. Here are my findings on the flight yesterday

Full flights don't mean the airline is making money. I have read in several posts that yields are good. Based on what data? In addition to that, UA is not looking at how full the flight is, but how other opportunities are ranking against this route in terms of RASM, Yield and CASM.

They are most likely pulling this service b/c of Air Tran and identifying another market that brings them more RASM and Yield.

All airlines, in fact most companies, operate on evaluating opportunity costs and redeploying their assets where they can maximize their revenue, or whatever the measure d'jour is.

luvflng
Radar Contact Terminated, Squawk VFR
 
Rookinla
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Tue Jan 16, 2007 11:24 am

Quoting Luvflng (Reply 18):
Full flights don't mean the airline is making money. I have read in several posts that yields are good.

I understand that fact. Good LF doesn't necessarily mean good yields. But in this case it does. It is pretty common knowledge that DAB provides pretty nice yields in general. It is one of DL's best Florida stations yield-wise.

Quoting Luvflng (Reply 18):
They are most likely pulling this service b/c of Air Tran and identifying another market that brings them more RASM and Yield.

I agree with the Air Tran statement, but I still feel that it is nothing more than a kneejerk reaction. FL hasn't even committed to year-round service yet and they may not. Again...there are many compelling reasons for a traveler to choose UA over FL...Frequent Flyer, IAD connections, etc. And even if they do drop IAD, there is a definite market for year-round daily ORD service. And looking at UAX's routes...there don't seem to be a lot of good alternatives available. DAB is also willing to give UA more money to start this service...
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:08 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 19):
I understand that fact. Good LF doesn't necessarily mean good yields. But in this case it does. It is pretty common knowledge that DAB provides pretty nice yields in general. It is one of DL's best Florida stations yield-wise.

Then why has DL cut back at DAB? I know one reason is their Ch. 11, because before that we saw a CR7 to CVG and a second on Saturday, as well as 8-9 flights to ATL.

Last June, there were CRJ-200s going out with only 10-20 people.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26607
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Tue Jan 16, 2007 3:51 pm

Article on UA leaving:

http://www.news-journalonline.com/Ne...News/Headlines/frtHEAD03011007.htm

An airport director is quoted as saying it has "everything to do with airTran".
a.
 
Rookinla
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:48 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 20):
Then why has DL cut back at DAB?

Lack of available aircraft. Remember that DL retired the 732s and needed extra MD88s in order to keep some stations mainline. The only reason that DAB saw CR7s was due to this fact, not demand. Flights are still very full into DAB.

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 20):
because before that we saw a CR7 to CVG and a second on Saturday, as well as 8-9 flights to ATL.

Cutbacks to numerous markets from CVG and several stations saw their CVG service disappear...probably permanently...including DAB. And 8 ATL flights...all MD88s...are returning due to the arrival of FL. This will probably result in FL leaving DAB IMHO. DL loves to flood the market and severely cut fares while there is real competition then go back to the status quo after the competition leaves. DL will do everything possible to eliminate FL from this market. UA can fly under the radar with their IAD and ORD service. This service is definitely successful and I still say that UA is making a mistake pulling out right now. Simple strategy...stay 2X Daily IAD (FL will not stay on the DAB-BWI route year-round...watch and see) and go 1X Daily ORD to start and see where it goes. And if you're UA...DAB is willing to subsidize you for a year with zero landing fees and $250K to market the new ORD service. In essence you have nothing to lose...and possibly a nice gain!
 
NASCARAirforce
Posts: 2459
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2005 7:27 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:26 pm

Quoting Rookinla (Reply 22):
DL loves to flood the market and severely cut fares while there is real competition then go back to the status quo after the competition leaves. DL will do everything possible to eliminate FL from this market. UA can fly under the radar with their IAD and ORD service.

though didn't nearly the opposite happen at ICT when Air Tran came there, with DL pulling most of their flights?
 
Rookinla
Posts: 284
Joined: Thu Aug 18, 2005 9:57 am

RE: United Leaving Daytona Beach

Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:27 pm

Quoting NASCARAirforce (Reply 23):
though didn't nearly the opposite happen at ICT when Air Tran came there, with DL pulling most of their flights?

Yes it did. But for every ICT (the anomaly) there is MOB, MYR, etc...

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