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purplebox
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:44 pm

Now that the damaged A330 G-WWBM has been repaired what is it being used for as the Mumbai services were suspended?

Is the ArkeFly B767 still being used for the Saudi flights?

PurpleBox.
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anstar
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:51 pm

I believe it will be reconfiured and then deployed on the saudi routes, which should allow for the 767 to be returned.
 
cornish
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Thread starter):
Now that the damaged A330 G-WWBM has been repaired what is it being used for as the Mumbai services were suspended?

It is currently being leased out for Hajj duties.

Quoting ANstar (Reply 1):
I believe it will be reconfiured and then deployed on the saudi routes, which should allow for the 767 to be returned.

That was what I naturally assumed would happen but I've heard this may not be the case. We may well see it being wet-leased to Virgin Nigeria for a period of time for the summer timetable - perhaps until bmi possibly get the Cairo route that they currently crave.

Of course being bmi they could completely change plans within months and send it to Timbuktu  Wink
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Candid76
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:12 pm

They could always start a MAN-Mumbai route with it (pleeease...). I'm off to LAS (from MAN, naturally) next Thursday so am looking forward to that!
 
purplebox
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:16 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
It is currently being leased out for Hajj duties.

Very strange - for an airline with only three A330's and a leased B767 (the lease was for a year and ends in March I believe) how are they ever going to grow?

Still, they have done this before - remember that before they scrapped the IAD flight in 2005 they suspended it for six months in 2002 to lease the aircraft to SAA.

Also, if I recall rightly they were going to add one long haul aircraft a year - what became of that promise...

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cornish
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:30 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 4):
Very strange - for an airline with only three A330's and a leased B767 (the lease was for a year and ends in March I believe) how are they ever going to grow?

The Hajj contract is worth a decent amount of (short term money) for what is only a short period. As they'd already axed Mumbai, it made sense to do it prior to any new route or use for the aircraft.

I've heard the Nigeria lease would be very lucrative for the short term, which is why they may do it.

Quoting Candid76 (Reply 3):
They could always start a MAN-Mumbai route with it (pleeease...).

Not a chance I'm afraid. No more MAN expansion (further cuts are more likely if anything) as bmi's latest focus is LHR-Middle East routes if they can get awarded them. Got their fingers burnt with India, but Saudi is doing very well for them (so why not use their own aircraft rather than a leased one baffles me) and that seems to be their mind set right now.
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oly720man
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:19 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Thread starter):
Now that the damaged A330 G-WWBM has been repaired what is it being used for as the Mumbai services were suspended?



Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
It is currently being leased out for Hajj duties.

It's still doing the usual MAN-ORD/Caribbean services, along with 'BB.

G-WWBD hasn't been logged at MAN since 10th Dec, according to ringwayreports.

'BB has had an incident, with a lamppost (?) from what I read and is without its starboard winglet (or was on Dec 23rd)


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cornish
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Wed Jan 03, 2007 9:27 pm

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 6):
G-WWBD hasn't been logged at MAN since 10th Dec, according to ringwayreports

Ah maybe that is the one being used for the Hajj then. My apologies if I got it wrong.
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purplebox
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:46 am

Quoting Oly720man (Reply 6):
'BB has had an incident, with a lamppost (?) from what I read and is without its starboard winglet (or was on Dec 23rd)

Seems like it's not been a good year for the BD A330's - does anybody know what happened?

Quoting Cornish (Reply 2):
perhaps until bmi possibly get the Cairo route that they currently crave.

Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

PurpleBox.

[Edited 2007-01-03 17:50:33]
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jamman
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:55 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

Come on, this is wacky BD we are talking about  spin 
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MANmatt
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:02 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

Try telling MS that! They operate their A330s on their daily MS777/778 flights in to LHR.

Matt
 
cornish
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:13 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

Well perhaps as with using a widebody on Saudi services, when they are not completely filling the seats on the plane, they are filling up down below.

The Saudi flights are doing well for bmi, and what has been a big bonus for them is the fact that they have been carrying plenty of cargo - something that bmi have never really done (having been until recent years a short haul business market carrier) in the past. Cargo is really helping them on the Saudi services, and a widebody gives them the opportunity to exploit that. Perhaps Cairo would be the same.

Quoting MANmatt (Reply 10):
Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

Try telling MS that! They operate their A330s on their daily MS777/778 flights in to LHR.

Or indeed BA with their 747-400 flights  Smile
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purplebox
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:45 am

Quoting MANmatt (Reply 10):
Try telling MS that! They operate their A330s on their daily MS777/778 flights in to LHR.



Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
Or indeed BA with their 747-400 flights

If MS and BA are running widebodies already why do BD want to jump in and compete... could be Mumbai all over again?

Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
The Saudi flights are doing well for bmi

The Saudi flights don't have any real compitition.

Perhaps BD need to introduce more 'medium haul' routes like their new Moscow service and try and make their own markets.

PurpleBox.

[Edited 2007-01-03 18:45:51]
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by188b
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:55 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

PurpleBox.

High demand for business class on LHR-Cairo
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LHRBFSTrident
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:06 pm

Quoting BY188B (Reply 13):
High demand for business class on LHR-Cairo

Completely agree with that - as with high demand for premium classes on Saudi flights

When BA were running the 763 to RUH, JED, BAH, DXB, MCT, AUH the premium classes were maxed out. There was 'vague' talk of creating a sub-fleet of high-F & J configured a/c to operate the Saudi and Gulf services (remembering, of course, one F class revenue seat remained empty on 763 services for Flightdeck Crew rest)

As daft as it sounds, BD probably wouldn't mind running an A330 full in F and J and nearly empty in Y on any of these services, 'cos with only a few a/c they need the standard configuration balance for ORD, LAS and the rest.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 12):
why do BD want to jump in and compete

They might think they can do well with connecting UA traffic from the US, given the relatively strong ties and historically tight diplomatic relations between Washington DC and Cairo, for one reason

Not to mention their A330 product has been getting rave reviews...
 
StarGoldLHR
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:11 pm

Why wouldnt bmi use one of their A320's on this route ?

There using one to Moscow.

BMI needs a rapid rethink on their A320 operations as in 10 months their prime BRU route is going to be eaten as is their CDG operations when Eurostar kicks in with 1hr 30 city centre to city centre operations.

Lets face it.. most CDG/BRU to LON traffic is business passengers going from city centre to city centre, not £1+tax travellers from backwater,suffolk to vineyard, Petitville.

They will want the fastest option.. which arguably is a draw between eurostar/air right now, but air is a non-starter from November

The reduction in MAN service provided the A320 for Moscow when Virgin trains finally got it's act together.

I would imagine BMI having at least 2 more A320's spare looking for work.
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cornish
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:34 pm

Quoting LHRBFSTrident (Reply 14):
As daft as it sounds, BD probably wouldn't mind running an A330 full in F and J and nearly empty in Y on any of these services,

Thats the thing. The front of the aircraft and the belly of the aircraft is what is making the Saudi services successful right now. They see the same for Cairo and other certain Middle East services.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 15):
Why wouldnt bmi use one of their A320's on this route ?

No good for cargo and no good for business. They would have to refit an A320 or two to make the premium cabin effective against BA and MS. With their small fleet it would not be the best solution. And cargo capacity would be somewhat smaller.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 12):
If MS and BA are running widebodies already why do BD want to jump in and compete...

MS are not considered competiton and rightly so - premium passengers would certainly choose BD over MS.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 12):
The Saudi flights don't have any real compitition.

Perhaps BD need to introduce more 'medium haul' routes like their new Moscow service and try and make their own markets.

Where exactly in Europe is left right now that they haven't tried? Moscow also has competition with BA and SU on the route - so why is that better than competing on Cairo with two carriers ?

BD have formed a niche in Saudi - they already know it makes more money for them than their MAN - US services. If they can build on this and carve out a wider reputation in the Middle East then that is no bad thing. Far better that rather than fighting for US services out of LHR where they will come up on much heavier/significant competition they look for Middle East markets with weaker flag carriers like SV and MS (as opposed to coming up against big guns like EK).

Certainly for myself as a Star FF card holder a real weakness is direct UK-Middle East Star flights at the moment. More BD to that part of the world would be a big plus for me as its the biggest Star gap out of LHR there is right now.
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7LBAC111
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:51 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 12):
Quoting Cornish (Reply 11):
Or indeed BA with their 747-400 flights

If MS and BA are running widebodies already why do BD want to jump in and compete... could be Mumbai all over again?

And this is BMI, and ratinal thinkin isn't in their vocabulary. However, as mentioned previously, premium traffic and presumably cargo, make the operation of a widebody aircraft less of a disadvantage, and provides BMI with an opportunity for both route development and to fill Y with lower fare travelers in the interim. Perhaps an opportunity to demonstrate the one thing bmi do get right - service.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 15):
BMI needs a rapid rethink on their A320 operations as in 10 months their prime BRU route is going to be eaten as is their CDG operations when Eurostar kicks in with 1hr 30 city centre to city centre operations.

Exactly. The industry is already seeing the benenfits of the Eurostar services, and the recent fog delays and subsequent rebooking ob airline passengers onto these services has only served to cement this fact.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 15):
I would imagine BMI having at least 2 more A320's spare looking for work.

LED anyone?

7L
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purplebox
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:37 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 16):
BD have formed a niche in Saudi

OK, so why don't they do more Saudi flights?

This thread is about BD long haul. They started their long haul operations in the spring of 2001 with three A330 aircraft and now nearly six years latter they have the same fleet plus a leased B767.

When will they start to grow?

PurpleBox.
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cornish
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:04 pm

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 18):
OK, so why don't they do more Saudi flights?

They intend to - but not to such an extent as to dilute yields by offering too many on existing routes. There are only so many seats they will fill to Riyadh and Jeddah. Certainly Damman is being looked - but again there are only so many seats they could offer on the route.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 18):
This thread is about BD long haul. They started their long haul operations in the spring of 2001 with three A330 aircraft and now nearly six years latter they have the same fleet plus a leased B767.

When will they start to grow?

Oh you don't need to tell me that. Although it may not seem it from this thread, I've long been one of BD's foremost critics here on A.net. Familiar with their operations both from a professional sense and as a customer. Look through the history here and you'll see how often I've laid into BD's current management as completely inpet and having ruined what was once an excellent focused airline for the business traveller.

And I am actually highly critical of their long haul ops. As you say - their lack of expansion is pathetic given their stated ambitions. They started up in MAN after not getting the US access out of LHR they craved. They ballsed up a lot of their MAN opportunities and a chance ot carve their own niche in that market for long haul ops.

However MAN is distinctly lower yield than LHR of course (their Saudi services are far more profitable than their MAN-ORD route for example), and their goal was always long haul LHR ops.

But of course LHR brings much more competition and it also means that when it comes up to new routes where bilateral issues come into play they are usually at the back of the queue behind BA and VS when it comes to long haul traffic rights.

India was a shambles - partly of their making, partly not. They pushed so hard for that (cancelling plans to fly MAN-South Africa among others - which would have given them a monopoly there) but got far fewer frequencies than other carriers meaning their Mumbai service was never going to appeal to the higher yield business traveller (despite their excellent onboard product) as there was just too few flights a week.

But Saudi was undoubtedly one of the best decisions they made for a long long time. Admittedly they wouldn't have got it if BA hadn't pulled out but they've made it work. Now they want other routes in the Middle East, but getting the traffic rights is much harder. Some of their plans have been disasterous - look at the QR/Doha debacle. I'm also not sure about why they can't put the spare 330 on Saudi and get rid of the leased 767 to make it even more profitable.

You are right - they really do need to get serious about long haul - and their network is pitfully small. But after messing up MAN, messing up India, Saudi actually works. Bmi should learn from it - see what they do well there and expand in the region to destinations like CAI if the numbers stack up. But they can only do that when the bilaterals let them - and they also have to find niche markets as unfortunately too many prime long haul routes out of LHR have BOTH BA and VS flying them.
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Kevin777
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:23 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 5):
Quoting Candid76 (Reply 3):
They could always start a MAN-Mumbai route with it (pleeease...).

Not a chance I'm afraid. No more MAN expansion (further cuts are more likely if anything) as bmi's latest focus is LHR-Middle East routes if they can get awarded them

Okay, in a C-pax sense MAN-BOM might not be the biggest hit ever, but they would have a monopoly on the route, and they'd probably beat 9W to it

Quoting MANmatt (Reply 10):
Try telling MS that! They operate their A330s on their daily MS777/778 flights in to LHR.

Many big short-hauls within Europe are also operated by widebodies

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 4):
Very strange - for an airline with only three A330's and a leased B767 (the lease was for a year and ends in March I believe) how are they ever going to grow?



Quoting Cornish (Reply 19):
You are right - they really do need to get serious about long haul - and their network is pitfully small.

I doubt they ever will grow on the long-haul - and I doubt that they ever should, too. Growth should not necessarily be an objective, profitability - and hence viability of the routes - should be. Apart from the M.E. services I doubt bmi has a slot in the long-haul market from the U.K. There is VS and BA, that do the job a whole lot better, so why try to take them out on long-haul just for the sake of the sexy long-haul travel itself?

Kevin777
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jamman
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:27 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
There is VS and BA, that do the job a whole lot better, so why try to take them out on long-haul just for the sake of the sexy long-haul travel itself?

I think its been proven though that the BD long haul product is actually quite good? So its still a shame that they can't get it to work.
With UK regional routes being eaten up by LLC's I'd hoped that long haul might have been the future for BD.
Its been said before they've balls up quite a few chances they've had.
C'est la vie.

[Edited 2007-01-04 15:29:04]
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Kevin777
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:31 pm

Quoting Jamman (Reply 21):
I think its been proven though that the BD long haul product is actually quite good? So its still a shame that they can't get it to work

I've heard that as well, there is an onboard five-star cook or something and probably a jacuzzi in the galley as well... And they have gotten excellent reviews. ProbleM: An "excellent" product in - shall we say the "Skytrax"-sense - does not equate an excellent product in an economic sense. And that it what counts at the end of the day..

Kevin777
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cornish
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Thu Jan 04, 2007 11:41 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
I doubt they ever will grow on the long-haul - and I doubt that they ever should, too. Growth should not necessarily be an objective, profitability - and hence viability of the routes - should be.

But they have no chance of long term profitability on short haul. They are unable to compete with BA and unable to compete with the LCCs. They don't have the size or the market position to do so - and I don't think they'll ever be able to recover that. They've tried to be all things to everybody and are learning that the market now dictates that successful airlines have a clear focus of what they are and where they want to be in the market. BA has that, VS has that, U2 and FR has that. BD most certainly does not.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
Apart from the M.E. services I doubt bmi has a slot in the long-haul market from the U.K.

All the more reason they should develop them - and forget the likes of the US. Saudi is doing very nicely for them, they are making a local name for themselves - expand on that. They have to make money SOMEWHERE otherwise just seel off all your slots to other carriers at LHR and close the airline or merge it. Europe out of LHR is never going to work long term for them.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 20):
Okay, in a C-pax sense MAN-BOM might not be the biggest hit ever, but they would have a monopoly on the route, and they'd probably beat 9W to it

Oh I agree - they'd have been much better off flying a MAN-BOM service than a 5x a week LHR-BOm service against everyone else. But they simply won't expand at MAN (unless they do another U-Turn).
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StarGoldLHR
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:28 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 23):
They've tried to be all things to everybody and are learning that the market now dictates that successful airlines have a clear focus of what they are and where they want to be in the market. BA has that, VS has that, U2 and FR has that. BD most certainly does not

Exactly...

if you want to fly cheap.. FR and U2 have europe sown up from the UK.
If you want to fly for work BA, SK, LH, IB,AZ, AF,KL have it sown up from the UK.

If you want to fly bmi because you like bmi or are a star alliance flyer in the UK.. you fly bmi...

thats hardly a road to major profitability.
Aer Lingus fell into this hole and fell even further.

BMI needs VS to join star alliance.. then it will get really interesting.
Failing that.. it needs to grow big to build a connecting network or get creative on it's destinations.

I still think BMI can pull it off with it's A320's.

Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania have poor star alliance options to the UK and not much better in budget offerings.
Cyprus is always very expensive, as is Athens.
Cairo is a good idea for an A320 in my opinion.. filling an A330 might be a challenge.

To be honest i'm not sure where they can go from LHR with an A330...
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Kevin777
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:05 am

Quoting Cornish (Reply 23):
They have to make money SOMEWHERE otherwise just seel off all your slots to other carriers at LHR and close the airline or merge it.

Which might be a very good idea. If bmi was owned and governed by a rational group of investors, this is exactly what they would do. Those LHR slots are worth much more to other airlines than bmi, so in this case I reckon they would close the whole thing down. The reason this does not happen is that SMB is an empire builder who would never close down his flying crown jewel of his empire.

Kevin777  Smile
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bmiexpat
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:43 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 25):
SMB is an empire builder who would never close down his flying crown jewel of his empire.

Please explain how SMB is an empire builder, the bmi group is hardly an empire!

By your reckoning, all airlines that don't make any money should be forced to sell their slots..... well that's a lot of airlines, and bmi is not one of them.

bmi was a pioneering airline who forced govenments to open up competition in the European airline sector long before EU open skies, was very successful in doing so and should be congratulated on that. Now they are trying to find their way once again, in the face of LOCO and railway competion, and are still at the forefront of campaigning for further liberalisation in the long and medium haul market, where it is now trying to establish itself.

The question is whether or not they can do that before the EU market gets swallowed up completely by the LOCOs.
 
Lite
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:03 am

I think the problem for bmi is branding, there is very little brand awareness, and what's more people don't really know what "B-M-I" means or stands for. Had the airline kept the name "bmi british midland" then at least the airline could've relied more on people's brand awareness of British Midland. In the scramble for longhaul and protecting themselves on shorthaul, the airline has diluted their service and network on shorthaul so much that most people seem to view them as a last resort. If the airline looked back to what they had done well at in the past; smart, professional service to major airports with a strong British flaired brand then perhaps they'd be well poised to compete against BA, and in turn the low-cost airlines. At the moment they just appear to be floundering around.

Longhaul obviously has the potential to be a big money-earner for bmi, but they won't be successful if they alienate their shorthaul customers.
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OA260
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:39 am

BMI could look to African destinations that dont have good service links and try those. Also what about a A320 service a few times a week LHR to SID.
 
cornish
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:49 pm

Quoting Lite (Reply 27):
think the problem for bmi is branding, there is very little brand awareness, and what's more people don't really know what "B-M-I" means or stands for. Had the airline kept the name "bmi british midland" then at least the airline could've relied more on people's brand awareness of British Midland. In the scramble for longhaul and protecting themselves on shorthaul, the airline has diluted their service and network on shorthaul so much that most people seem to view them as a last resort. If the airline looked back to what they had done well at in the past; smart, professional service to major airports with a strong British flaired brand then perhaps they'd be well poised to compete against BA, and in turn the low-cost airlines. At the moment they just appear to be floundering around.

Its ture - many UK travellers simply aren't that aware of them. I still maintain if you asked the vast majority of UK travellers to name three UK airlines they would invariably give three of BA, Virgin easyJet and Ryanair (yes I know!) as their answer.

And if that is the level of awareness in the UK, it is almost non existent elsewhere in Europe these days.
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StarGoldLHR
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Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:46 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 25):
Which might be a very good idea. If bmi was owned and governed by a rational group of investors, this is exactly what they would do. Those LHR slots are worth much more to other airlines than bmi, so in this case I reckon they would close the whole thing down. The reason this does not happen is that SMB is an empire builder who would never close down his flying crown jewel of his empire.

Actually it's a long held dream of flying to the US from LHR that makes him keep his LHR slots.

BMI is a european airline with a LHR Connecting hub... with no where to connect to.

I think star alliance airlines sell more tickets than bmi do on their flights....
goto expedia.. look for LHR-MAN and just see the codeshare AC,LH tickets on offer !
So far in 2008 45 flights and Gold already. JFK, IAD, LGA, SIN, HKG, NRT, AKL, PPT, LAX still to book ! Home Airport LCY
 
UAL777UK
Posts: 2367
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:16 am

BMI Longhaul - Status

Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:57 pm

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
I think star alliance airlines sell more tickets than bmi do on their flights....
goto expedia.. look for LHR-MAN and just see the codeshare AC,LH tickets on offer !

I suspect your very correct!
 
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OA260
Posts: 24268
Joined: Thu Nov 30, 2006 8:50 pm

BMI Longhaul - Status

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:19 pm

I actually am BMI Gold card member and I have to say I rarely fly them, I only use them to get to LHR for a connection to UA OS LH etc... or I just fly LH LO LX from DUB direct. I personally dont see them as a major long haul operator and if I was asked I proberbly would not mention them as one.
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:37 pm

Quoting Bmiexpat (Reply 26):
By your reckoning, all airlines that don't make any money should be forced to sell their slots..... well that's a lot of airlines, and bmi is not one of them.

No one should be forced to sell anything, it's a free world out there; that is not my reckoning. But my reckoning sure as hell is, that if you are a doomed airline straddling around in every market, but have valuable slots that other airlines could put to better use, yes, then you should sell and close the whole thing down as a rational investor and owner.

Quoting StarGoldLHR (Reply 30):
ally it's a long held dream of flying to the US from LHR that makes him keep his LHR slots.

BMI is a european airline with a LHR Connecting hub... with no where to connect to.

I think star alliance airlines sell more tickets than bmi do on their flights....
goto expedia.. look for LHR-MAN and just see the codeshare AC,LH tickets on offer !

All the less hope and sustainability of bmi in the long run.. sorry, I just donøt believe in it.. only chance I'd give them is to be bought by VS; transferring of viable bmi long-haul to VS, take the LHR slots for VS long-haul and keep some profitable bmi feed for the rest.

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
7LBAC111
Posts: 2427
Joined: Sun Jul 18, 2004 9:17 am

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sat Jan 06, 2007 2:20 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 33):
only chance I'd give them is to be bought by VS;

Which will never happen as long as SMB is at the helm.

7L
Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
 
purplebox
Topic Author
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sat Jan 06, 2007 4:03 pm

Quoting Cornish (Reply 29):
Its ture - many UK travellers simply aren't that aware of them. I still maintain if you asked the vast majority of UK travellers to name three UK airlines they would invariably give three of BA, Virgin easyJet and Ryanair (yes I know!) as their answer.

Yes, and thats the sad bit - for a brief moment their long haul ops from MAN were a real talking point - even after 9/11.

PurpleBox.
Next Flights:LHR-BOG,BOG-GYE,MDE-BOG-PTY,PTY-BOG-CTG,SMR-BOG-LHR - all on AV
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sat Jan 06, 2007 10:52 pm

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 34):
Which will never happen as long as SMB is at the helm.

Yep! No doubt about it. And another reason for SK and LH to deeply regret ever getting in bed with that airline

Kevin777  Smile
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
Lite
Posts: 269
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:53 am

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:30 am

The scary thing I find with bmi is that they have a logical explanation to all of the decisions that they make, and if they were losing as much money as everybody on airliners.net and other aviation forums thought they were, then simply they wouldn't still be flying.

Take the New Business Model, they've radically slimmed down their operation and got rid of loss-making routes. Surely that's a good thing, even if it means we can't fly bmi to Madrid or Milan anymore, and we can't always upgrade to business. bmi regional has found a niche as a business airline. bmibaby has made a real success out of the regions as a low-cost airline, maybe their growth hasn't been Jet2 like, but they're still doing well. The Saudi routes, everybody was very sceptical about launching services where BA had pulled out, and yet they seem to be making money from it, even though they've used a sub-chartered Arkefly B767.

I think there will be a place for bmi in the market, and at the moment, even with their bizarre way of running an airline group, they have found their place. Obviously I'd love to go back to the late 90s when BM had Diamond Service, smart uniforms, an extensive shorthaul network - but I doubt we'll see that again.
LCC Lover Lite
 
cedarjet
Posts: 8788
Joined: Mon May 24, 1999 1:12 am

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sun Jan 07, 2007 3:42 am

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 8):
Why would you use a A330 for Cairo?

It's too big, or it's too small, in your opinion? In fact BA fly the 747 to Cairo. It's a very busy route. London is an Arab capital.

Quoting PurpleBox (Reply 12):
If MS and BA are running widebodies already why do BD want to jump in and compete... could be Mumbai all over again?

Mumbai was suicidally stupid, I mean, you've got BA, Virgin, Air-India, plus Emirates and a lot of other airlines offering a convenient connection through a hub. Cairo's different, only BA offering British competition, and no Emirates to contend with - you can get to Cairo via FRA (LH), CDG (AF) or BUD (MA) but it's not the same. Plus Cairo is a shorter distance so a change of aircraft at a hub significantly increases the journey time, whereas Mumbai is twice as far so the proportion of the total journey time spent on the ground somewhere en route is less.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
purplebox
Topic Author
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2005 5:43 am

RE: BMI Longhaul - Status

Sun Jan 07, 2007 4:11 am

Quoting Cedarjet (Reply 38):
It's too big, or it's too small, in your opinion? In fact BA fly the 747 to Cairo. It's a very busy route. London is an Arab capital.

It's not the size - it's the fact that they only have three A330's and if they are serious about long haul it's not really long haul. It could be done by their A321's - they have four left and they could offer a competive product.

If they are serious about long haul the A330's should be used for long haul routes.

If they are not serious then the A330's should be sold - a Trent A330 would get a good price in todays market.

PurpleBox.

[Edited 2007-01-06 20:25:44]

[Edited 2007-01-06 20:28:10]
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