WSJ: Airbus To Unveil "Major" Plane Order Monday

KFLLCFII · Fri Jan 05, 2007 5:59 am

100 A320s? Still wouldn't do anything about their widebody ordeal...

zvezda · Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:04 am

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 47):
It will be VS. King Richard is upset at the US DOT.

Since SRB has been expecting the DoT rejection for some time, there has definitely been time to craft a LoI. Hoping VS will order 15+ A350s in place of their twice deferred WhaleJets.

aa1818 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:19 am

The fact that the word major is used and the whole idea about this mystery and big news suggests some good PR work...i.e SRB!!!

My vote is for VS with some A350s plus more A346s and probbaly confirming delivery of the A380s they postponed to end speculation that they will cancel them. This is major news for Airbus since they get a pretty nice A250 order, an A346 order which confirms that the A340 is NOT dead and some positive news about the A380. Also means that once again Virgin has shun Boeing products!!

While I'd love to see VS order some 773ERs and some 748is...I personally don't see it happenning!!!

AA1818

keesje · Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:19 am

Maybe Fly Asia Xpress?

mrcomet · Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:25 am

Quoting OA260 (Reply 27):
By major it must be something big. Anyone guess how many air frames they would define as big ?? Are we talking over 50 ??

I guess we seem to be defining major as a small or medium size order from a first tier airline or a three digit order from an LCC.

I think it might be something totally unexpected. I'm going for the 10-1 shot: Airbus gets Iberia back inline and announces 10 A380, 60 A350XWB order with 20 A330s as a gap plane.

mspguy · Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
Quoting N484ER (Reply 24):
How many aicraft orders does Airbus have for 2006? Can this "major" order affect their standing against Boeing's 1014?

Based on Airbus announcement, these orders would be booked against 2007, I believe.

nah, we'll see them on the 2006 orders.

autothrust · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:03 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 36):
As much as I'd like to see a major A350 order, I have doubts about it happening so soon a revision. VS could probably move a lot more quickly than BA.

True, dont think more BA would buy the A350 at such a early state design even isnt frozen, BA dont like to be launch customer so the 787 is more probably. My guess would be 787/748 or /A380 combination.

aussie747 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:09 am

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 55):
Quoting Stitch (Reply 26):
Quoting N484ER (Reply 24):
How many aicraft orders does Airbus have for 2006? Can this "major" order affect their standing against Boeing's 1014?

Based on Airbus announcement, these orders would be booked against 2007, I believe.

nah, we'll see them on the 2006 orders.

Stranger things have happened haven't they? It would not surprise me !!!

zvezda · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:11 am

Quoting MSPGUY (Reply 55):
nah, we'll see them on the 2006 orders.

Depends on when the order was signed -- if the order has been signed. It might be only a LoI/MoU.

KL808 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:20 am

Personally if this is the 100 frame order from Air Asia, im not really that impressed. I'd rather see Airbus get some widebody orders.

Ofcourse one cannot discount that 100 orders is dam amazing, however, I guess personally a "Major" order would be for the widebodies.

Hopefully it wont be the 100 frame order from Air Asia.

Drew

JayinKitsap · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:20 am

So did Airbus need to hear Boeings final numbers so the order signed last year is big enough to top Boeing's sales numbers.

Sorry, but it seems like Airbus planned this announcement for almost the hour that Boeing would be reporting their 2006 numbers to reduce the media attention. Kudos to Airbus that they have landed a Major Order.

airfrnt · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:25 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 58):
Depends on when the order was signed -- if the order has been signed. It might be only a LoI/MoU.

Since when has that stopped Airbus?

flydreamliner · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:30 am

Quoting B707Stu (Reply 44):
I think it'll be BA.

BA moves slowly and judiciously, often not with big surprises. I seriously doubt BA has made any big decisions this fast.

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 61):
Quoting Zvezda (Reply 58):
Depends on when the order was signed -- if the order has been signed. It might be only a LoI/MoU.

Since when has that stopped Airbus?

No kidding.

Sadly, they are too far behind to catch up, even by pre-dating January 07 orders back to 2006.

zvezda · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:37 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 62):
Sadly, they are too far behind to catch up, even by pre-dating January 07 orders back to 2006.

If Airbus were to pre-date orders, they would lose credibility with their customers. They don't have a lot of credibility to blow on something so petty as the annual order count. The suggestion that Airbus are counting 2007 orders as 2006 orders is really quite ridiculous, in my opinion. The Chinese orders are sort of different.

Scorpio · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:38 am

Quoting AirFrnt (Reply 61):
Since when has that stopped Airbus?

Oh dear, here we go again... Do we have to go through this crap every single week? Airbus only counts orders once they are signed. They never count LoIs or MoUs. And yes, that includes the Chinese ones. The end.

TeamAmerica · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:42 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 62):
BA moves slowly and judiciously, often not with big surprises. I seriously doubt BA has made any big decisions this fast.

Agreed. There hasn't been so much as a rumor of a surprise. If BA had a decision I'd expect to hear a hint of it.

flydreamliner · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:43 am

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 63):
Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 62):
Sadly, they are too far behind to catch up, even by pre-dating January 07 orders back to 2006.

If Airbus were to pre-date orders, they would lose credibility with their customers. They don't have a lot of credibility to blow on something so petty as the annual order count. The suggestion that Airbus are counting 2007 orders as 2006 orders is really quite ridiculous, in my opinion. The Chinese orders are sort of different.

I didn't say they were pre-dating orders this year, I said even if they were, it still wouldn't be enough to give them a lead, so what would be the point.

What I was alluding to was the chinese orders last year, which were slighly questionable.

mohavewolfpup · Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:05 am

how about "major problems fixed and A380 delivered to first customers" as a headline instead?

MCOflyer · Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:08 am

Well John Leahy did say that am LCC was going to be the first to operate the A330.

MCOflyer

Devilfish · Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Zeke (Reply 39):
The Queen orders a single A318CJ.

The Elite would be a nice and practical upgrade from the BAe146 - though 10 Downing might be envious especially in these last days of office without a ride of its own (longer-ranged and bigger, given the hangers-on.) But I agree that it would be a "major" order considering it's usually not HM who'd place it, and that the wishes of the Minister of the Exchequer to lease aircraft for this purpose would've been overridden. Smile

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 47):
King Richard is upset at the US DOT.

Did he marry some queen? scratchchin

ikramerica · Fri Jan 05, 2007 8:14 am

Quoting Solnabo (Reply 28):
Qatar 60-80 A350-8-9-XWB? BA 15-20 A388? ANA 20 A388?

I love guessing games

Then you'd think you'd be better at them by now. Wink

Seriously, QR is a real possibility, as are so many others, but BA is ready to announce and NH is not going to buy the A388 ever, and very likely not the 748 either.

Quoting Glideslope (Reply 47):
It will be VS. King Richard is upset at the US DOT.

Well, if he were to get all mad, wouldn't it just verify that VA was really about him and they were right to question the power structure?

flydreamliner · Fri Jan 05, 2007 9:16 am

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 70):
Seriously, QR is a real possibility, as are so many others, but BA is ready to announce and NH is not going to buy the A388 ever, and very likely not the 748 either.

ANA has gone hook, line, and sinker after the Boeing promoted notion of smaller aircraft connecting more city pairs for profitability. If the CASM is roughly the same between aircraft, is it cheaper to fly a 787 from say, KIX to SEA, or fly an A380 from KIX to LAX and an 757 from LAX to SEA? If you can get the same fare either way, it's more profitable to run direct routes, right? That's their take on it.

Perhaps someday for BA and A380, myself I think they'll go for the 747-8, as it fits their operation better, but A380 has advantages too, so we'll see.

PlanesNTrains · Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:15 am

Quoting KL808 (Reply 59):
Ofcourse one cannot discount that 100 orders is dam amazing, however, I guess personally a "Major" order would be for the widebodies.

All I can say is that, if Boeing were to announce a 100 frame order for 737NG's on Monday, I'd call it a major order.

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 60):
So did Airbus need to hear Boeings final numbers so the order signed last year is big enough to top Boeing's sales numbers.

Sorry, but it seems like Airbus planned this announcement for almost the hour that Boeing would be reporting their 2006 numbers to reduce the media attention. Kudos to Airbus that they have landed a Major Order.

If they were to do that, there would be a media firestorm. I'm not saying it can't or won't happen, but for a company as large and successful as they are to do something like that would be terribly embarrassing - and ultimately meaningless.

Besides, didn't they already concede 2006 to Boeing? If they did, then pull a stunt like this, I'd be disgusted.

-Dave

stirling · Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:22 am

Quoting FlyDreamliner (Reply 71):
ANA has gone hook, line, and sinker after the Boeing promoted notion of smaller aircraft connecting more city pairs for profitability. If the CASM is roughly the same between aircraft, is it cheaper to fly a 787 from say, KIX to SEA, or fly an A380 from KIX to LAX and an 757 from LAX to SEA? If you can get the same fare either way, it's more profitable to run direct routes, right? That's their take on it.

I think Japanese carriers shying away from VLAs has more to do with landing fees based on MGTOW of aircraft.

Quoting Mymorningsong (Reply 11):
The source also said that three individual shareholders from AirAsia and Fly Asian Xpress (FAX) will form an alliance to start long-haul services to London and China as early as July using three aircraft -- a combination of Airbus A330s and Boeing (nyse: BA - news - people ) 777-300s.

Quoting FlyingColours (Reply 30):
What if VS,U2 & Air Asia LCC all ordered some more aircraft for this "Global LCC" idea?

According to the BBC, there is a firm denial on the British side (easyJet and Virgin) of their involvement.
So far, it is just Tony.....But I am wondering where the fares came from that appeared in some articles; one had a predicted price of KUL-LHR of about $78USD plus tax. Where did that come from, if everyone is mumb?

Link to BBC Article

ikramerica · Fri Jan 05, 2007 10:55 am

Quoting JayinKitsap (Reply 60):
Sorry, but it seems like Airbus planned this announcement for almost the hour that Boeing would be reporting their 2006 numbers to reduce the media attention. Kudos to Airbus that they have landed a Major Order.

I think this is the case. Airbus knows Boeing announces their year end totals first week of January, (since their accountants have faster calculators or something Wink

), so since Airbus has conceded 2006, they are announcing quite a few orders this week to steal the thunder from Boeing.

What's really surprising, or at least it might be to people in the EU, is that Boeing's announcement is not big news over here. One could imagine that if Airbus had another record year, it would be VERY big news in the EU like it was last year.

It kind of shows the difference in "national pride" levels of the two companies. Over there, it would be big news, over here, Lindsey Lohan's appendix removal is bigger news...

TinkerBelle · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:04 am

Lemme guess, another airbus order Per Airbus' 2006 calender....wait, we're in 2007???? Could have fooled me. duck

BAalltheway · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:23 am

First post on A.net....been following for years though....

I know this opinon has already been expressed, but I gotta say...Airbus doesn't seem to have officially announced the AirAsia order just yet. It's not even mentioned on their website. When you're down, I think you try to make a big deal about it when you're up...No?

It's gotta be the AirAsia Order, and we've got someone trying to creat a fuss, that's all. If not, I will conceed yet another huge win for Airbus...touchee Airbus....touchee....

Why wait for Monday though...why do you officially announce that you're going to announce something on Monday?

crazy

MCOflyer · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:29 am

Quoting BAalltheway (Reply 76):
First post on A.net....been following for years though....

Welcome to A-Net.

I hope the order is a good one for them.

MCOflyer

ikramerica · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:31 am

Quoting BAalltheway (Reply 76):
It's gotta be the AirAsia Order, and we've got someone trying to creat a fuss, that's all. If not, I will conceed yet another huge win for Airbus...touchee Airbus....touchee....

And it's huge. A 737 customer will now have 150 A320s and 30 A330s or whatever (plus options). Those are not just big numbers, but orders Boeing "lost" to the A320.

Dtw757 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 11:36 am

Perhaps Northwest has decided to replace the DC9's with A318's Smile

billreid · Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:04 pm

Its BA ordering the A311.5 The 50 seat version of the A320.

An order of 13 aircraft for 86 sterling.
The plan is for the 16,000,000,000 development costs to be paid from Brussels from EU tax collections.

Airbus has also offered the A350XWB with 350,000,000 euros cash back per aircraft to all American carriers and as well as a Peugoet 405 for every flight crew member. The program will be financed by EU equalization taxes from Holland.

BAalltheway · Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:06 pm

Don't know how to insert quote yet.....:And it's huge. A 737 customer will now have 150 A320s and 30 A330s or whatever (plus options). Those are not just big numbers, but orders Boeing "lost" to the A320.

Agreed! Either way, it has been a week deserving of some compliments to Airbus!

manni · Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:36 pm

A major order would involve some A350 and/or A380 orders IMO. Altough in the case of the rumoured Air Asia order, I'd call that a Mega Major order aswell. SV rumoured to order upto US$12 billion worth of aircraft sounds very major too. Another major order would be a major coup, such as an order from LY or SA)">DL. Whois in the process of ordering (widebody) aircraft? Some possibilities (listing the Airbus possibilities, most of the mentioned airlines will no doubt also consider competing models from Boeing).

TG A330s and A380s.
QR A350s and converting A380 options.
EY A330s, A350s and A380s.
EK upto 100 widebodies.
BA atleast 12 A380s and lots more other aircraft
IB rumours on here said 30 787s, did they choose Airbus instead?
CI rumours on here said 10 748i, did they choose Airbus instead?
SV rumoured to order US$12 billion worth of aircraft.
Air Asia 100 to 150 A32S and a couple dozen of A330's.
TK recently announced that they will place an order for widebodies.
LY A330s.
SU A330s and A350s.
OZ was expected to announce a VLA order before the end of 2006.
SA wanted additional A346s, but Airbus couldn't accomodate them.
SQ firming up their A350 commitment?

PM · Fri Jan 05, 2007 12:54 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 82):
TG A330s and A380s.
QR A350s and converting A380 options.
EY A330s, A350s and A380s.
EK upto 100 widebodies.
BA atleast 12 A380s and lots more other aircraft
IB rumours on here said 30 787s, did they choose Airbus instead?
CI rumours on here said 10 748i, did they choose Airbus instead?
SV rumoured to order US$12 billion worth of aircraft.
Air Asia 100 to 150 A32S and a couple dozen of A330's.
TK recently announced that they will place an order for widebodies.
LY A330s.
SU A330s and A350s.
OZ was expected to announce a VLA order before the end of 2006.
SA wanted additional A346s, but Airbus couldn't accomodate them.
SQ firming up their A350 commitment?

Well, let's speculate...

"Major"...? That could mean number of planes or value of $$$ or the blueset of blue chips even if the order was smaller. (BA ordering 10 A330s wouldn't be a huge order but it would be highly significant - hence "major".) But I think in this context it can only mean something BIG.

LY would be fascinating ... but not "major".
bmi (suggested above) couldn't order enough to be "major".
TK would need to order a couple of dozen A350s to replace their entire widebody fleet to be "major".
SA seem unlikely to order enough to be "major".
BA? I hope otherwise but I think it's too soon for them to have selected the A350 and I suspect that an A380 order is still some way off.
QR, EY and EK all seem realistic possibilities.
The SQ order (firmed up) would be nice - but a bit of an anticlimax in that it's not 'new'.
SU must also be a candidate.
I doubt IB or SV just yet.

Might I add EI - an order for a dozen A350s??? (But is that "major"?)
Cathay ordering A380s and A350s???

No, my guess is still Air Asia.

BUT...

Assuming that the likes of United aren't about to order thirty A380s (!), what would constitute the biggest news for Airbus deserving of the biggest hype would be a significant vote of confidence in the A350.

One or maybe more major airlines (IB, BA, CX, UA, LH, EK, EY, QR...) ordering serious numbers (40? 50? 70? 90???) A350s would be majorly major.

No-one should sniff at 100 A320s but real news would be a huge A350 order.

We can only hope. And wait.

manni · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:00 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 83):
Cathay ordering A380s and A350s???

That would be an absolute beautiful order.

Quoting PM (Reply 83):
, what would constitute the biggest news for Airbus deserving of the biggest hype would be a significant vote of confidence in the A350.

Indeed. A new A380 customer would also earn bragging rights after the bad publicity it has gone trough this year.

PM · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:01 pm

A further thought...

Airbus are often criticised (at least here on A.Net though not necessarily in the real world duck

) for playing fast and loose with the timing of their announcements and especially for counting 'next year's orders' at the end of the previous year. But this time they may have turned the tables.

2006 belonged to Boeing any way you look at it. Even a "major" Airbus order in December would fail to turn the tide. So, if you were JL, would you throw 'good money after bad' or wait till 2007? Write off 2006. Concede it to Boeing. But then hit 2007 running with some big, juicy deals.

Could be they had this order (whatever it is) banked a month ago but decided to wait till 2007 before announcing it. Smart move.

(Of course, JL & Co. still need to win such orders and have something to sell the airlines want to buy... devil

)

2wingtips · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:05 pm

OS were also due to announce their NB selection this month and their 787/350 decision later this year. Probably not major enough, however.

manni · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:07 pm

Another possibily comes to mind. Virgin Blue is also looking for widebody aircraft to start longhaul operations.

It was rumoured that some cargo operators have requested Airbus to restart selling A300F's. Did Airbus bite the bullet in exchange for a fat A300F order?

And then there's the USAF stirthepot

ikramerica · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:16 pm

Quoting BAalltheway (Reply 81):
Don't know how to insert quote yet....

Highlight the text, then click on Quote Selected Text above the comment. Make sure you click on the area associated with the author of the quote, as if you click on a different one, it will attribute the quote to that person. People get annoyed with this, as it usually happens during an argument... Wink

NASCARAirforce · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:25 pm

Why can't they tell us now? Why does Airbus constantly have to do these teasers? They do it all the time, like not reveal till Farnborough or other shows etc, or wait till the end of the year etc.

WingedMigrator · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:28 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 82):
QR A350s and converting A380 options.

That's what my money's on! twocents

PM · Fri Jan 05, 2007 1:31 pm

Quoting WingedMigrator (Reply 90):
That's what my money's on!

One wonders which engine they'd have on their A350s. Is it clear whether GE have definitvely signed up for the A350 yet?

manni · Fri Jan 05, 2007 3:56 pm

One more guess. What about FR starting a lowcost airline, out of STN, with the A330 as workhorse?

BlueSky1976 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:07 pm

Quoting Manni (Reply 92):
What about FR starting a lowcost airline, out of STN, with the A330 as workhorse?

Naah... MOL is in bed with Boeing. He'd get 150 787-9s for that. Smile

manni · Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:10 pm

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 93):
MOL is in bed with Boeing.

MOL is in bed with whoever gives him a better deal, down to the penny! Yep, that's right, that's got to be Boeing stirthepot

[Edited 2007-01-05 08:11:25]

Ikarus2006 · Fri Jan 05, 2007 4:15 pm

Keesje,

maybe BA? Just a 7 am thought...

breiz · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:07 pm

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 74):
What's really surprising, or at least it might be to people in the EU, is that Boeing's announcement is not big news over here. One could imagine that if Airbus had another record year, it would be VERY big news in the EU like it was last year.

It kind of shows the difference in "national pride" levels of the two companies. Over there, it would be big news, over here, Lindsey Lohan's appendix removal is bigger news...

Just a piece of comment, Ikeamerica. Although we are an "old" Europe, we also are a young Union, and far from being really "United".
Any achievement by several members of the Union together is highlighted as a justification of the Union and its success to be.
Airbus is one if not the emblematic company for the Union (and it actually shows very well our strengths and weaknesses).
Besides, being younger, Airbus is and will remain the challenger. Victories of challengers are usually heralded more than victories of the champion.
Hence this "national pride" effect.

Btblue · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:13 pm

Air Asia orders the A380 in line with their expansion plans or a significant order from a UK airline (my money would be on Virgin but BA may well shock us).

Maybe.

breiz · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:24 pm

Quoting Leelaw (Thread starter):
Quote:
LONDON (Dow Jones)--Airbus will unveil a "major" airplane order next Monday afternoon in London, its U.K. public relations firm Merlin said Thursday.

Most probably not any A320 family order as the AirAsia big one is already announced w/o much fuss about it.
Not the re-opening of the A300 line as the announcement would be made in Toulouse.
The re-order of the A380 by Qantas went quietly, so I do not bet for a BA order of the A380.
It has to be some big numbers for the A350XWB, most likely from Qatar or Emirates as suggested by others.

StarGoldLHR · Fri Jan 05, 2007 7:26 pm

Air Asia's team appears to be in London all week, with easyjet and virgin denying any deal with them.

I would expect the Air Asia deal

Quite clever.. the KUL-SIN is preserve of MH and SQ, with Air Asia (Malay based) being denyed, however doing a deal with virgin (50% Singapore owned) preserves the 50/50 balance and allows Air Asia to fly KUL-SIN.

I bet this is the deal.

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